| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error 21:42 - Aug 26 with 7508 views | N2_Blue |
In march of this year I was caught by a speed camera on the M25 exceeding the speed limit by 10 mph.
I received the NIP and accepted the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, paid the £100 fine online using the government portal and posted my license details using the form provided - all with the 28 day time limit.
Last Friday I received a SJP. Why have i received this? Looking online iwould suggest that maybe the police think i have not made payment or received my license details.
However I have record of my pyament and also the police have to have recieved my details as they have included a scan of the form i returned with my license details and admitting i was the driver.
I'm totally at a loss as to why i have received this and yet now either have to face a court appreance (ive never attended Court in my life) or admit guilt and pay a fine that could be large as it is accessed against your finanical situation. However i have alrready admitted to the offence and paid the fine.
Any advice? (And yes i know speeding is not big or clever, but we all make mistakes sometimes). |  |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 21:54 - Aug 26 with 6612 views | DarkBrandon |
[deleted]
On reflection I’m not knowledgeable enough about your situation to give advice. Good luck. [Post edited 26 Aug 2024 21:56]
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:01 - Aug 26 with 6524 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I would suggest you need proper legal advice. It is quite possible it is simply an administrative error - is there some contact on the documentation you have received (or you can find online) to see if that is the case? |  |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:04 - Aug 26 with 6504 views | N2_Blue |
Thanks, I had but it doesn't really give any input as top whether i should plead guilty or not. I'm guilty of the speeeding offence, sure but i have settled the fixed penalty notice.
And in that example the indicual had no evidence that the police had received his licesnse details or payment. I can provide evidence of both.
Really don't want have to go to Court with this but seems the only way to provide the evidence that i settled this. What a waste of everyones time and tax payers money. | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:07 - Aug 26 with 6479 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:04 - Aug 26 by N2_Blue |
Thanks, I had but it doesn't really give any input as top whether i should plead guilty or not. I'm guilty of the speeeding offence, sure but i have settled the fixed penalty notice.
And in that example the indicual had no evidence that the police had received his licesnse details or payment. I can provide evidence of both.
Really don't want have to go to Court with this but seems the only way to provide the evidence that i settled this. What a waste of everyones time and tax payers money. |
You need sound legal advice before that. I am sure you can get an initial free consultation and advice from a solicitor. Another alternative is if you have legal insurance on your car insurance (or even home insurance). | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:09 - Aug 26 with 6449 views | N2_Blue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:01 - Aug 26 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I would suggest you need proper legal advice. It is quite possible it is simply an administrative error - is there some contact on the documentation you have received (or you can find online) to see if that is the case? |
There is simply a number for help with the Court process but stating they cannot give legal advice. I will try it tomorrow. I only received this letter when i got home this evening, is a bit of a shock and i'm totally at a loss. I can only see that it is an admistrative error, but it would seeem this still has to go to Court as the issuing of a SJP is the start of legal proceedings. | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:14 - Aug 26 with 6406 views | BloomBlue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:04 - Aug 26 by N2_Blue |
Thanks, I had but it doesn't really give any input as top whether i should plead guilty or not. I'm guilty of the speeeding offence, sure but i have settled the fixed penalty notice.
And in that example the indicual had no evidence that the police had received his licesnse details or payment. I can provide evidence of both.
Really don't want have to go to Court with this but seems the only way to provide the evidence that i settled this. What a waste of everyones time and tax payers money. |
Go and speak with Citizens Advice, as it sounds like an admin error and I'm sure they will have details of who you can talk with to correct the admin error. |  | | |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:15 - Aug 26 with 6409 views | Coastalblue |
I'd go on the forum here and ask the same question.
http://www.pepipoo.com/ |  |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 00:09 - Aug 27 with 6147 views | Double_Dutch |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:04 - Aug 26 by N2_Blue |
Thanks, I had but it doesn't really give any input as top whether i should plead guilty or not. I'm guilty of the speeeding offence, sure but i have settled the fixed penalty notice.
And in that example the indicual had no evidence that the police had received his licesnse details or payment. I can provide evidence of both.
Really don't want have to go to Court with this but seems the only way to provide the evidence that i settled this. What a waste of everyones time and tax payers money. |
Could it possibly be, that you have admitted to the offence of speeding, provided the police with the information that they have requested, paid the fine and, the court appearance in front of a single magistrate, will solely be to determine the points to be added to your driving licence? |  | | |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 08:34 - Aug 27 with 5684 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 22:09 - Aug 26 by N2_Blue |
There is simply a number for help with the Court process but stating they cannot give legal advice. I will try it tomorrow. I only received this letter when i got home this evening, is a bit of a shock and i'm totally at a loss. I can only see that it is an admistrative error, but it would seeem this still has to go to Court as the issuing of a SJP is the start of legal proceedings. |
As DJR says above, ring that number. You are questioning that the issue is correct rather than seeking legal advice. I would imagine they can cancel legal proceedings very easily if they choose to and that will be the preferred course of action for everyone if it is a mistake. | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 08:49 - Aug 27 with 5647 views | N2_Blue |
Thanks for this info (and to the others who have also contributed, much appreciated).
The reference number on the SJP matches the reference made on my payment so has to be the same matter.
Will definitely look to call the Court and see if they can shed any more light.
Someone suggested that the SJP and court proceedings could just be to establish the points I'll be awarded. Is that a possibility? Is 80 in a 70 considered a serious enough offence that could be awarded more than 3 penalty points? Is it usual to get a fine on top of the PCN for this offence? | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 09:09 - Aug 27 with 5585 views | itfcjoe |
I had similar, but didn't know I had to send my licence details off (as is utterly pointless to do so), so went to the court to fight it and ended up with the same original fine as I started with so all worked out ok.
The fine was £100, the CPS recommendation in court was for me to pay £110 plus £32 court costs, so even worst case scenario isn't a lot worse
I dread to think how much it would have cost the taxpayer because of their backwards processes |  |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 09:52 - Aug 27 with 5451 views | DJR |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 08:49 - Aug 27 by N2_Blue |
Thanks for this info (and to the others who have also contributed, much appreciated).
The reference number on the SJP matches the reference made on my payment so has to be the same matter.
Will definitely look to call the Court and see if they can shed any more light.
Someone suggested that the SJP and court proceedings could just be to establish the points I'll be awarded. Is that a possibility? Is 80 in a 70 considered a serious enough offence that could be awarded more than 3 penalty points? Is it usual to get a fine on top of the PCN for this offence? |
I wouldn't have thought so because my understanding is that fixed penalty notices are designed avoid court proceedings. |  | | |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 09:56 - Aug 27 with 5420 views | N2_Blue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 09:09 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I had similar, but didn't know I had to send my licence details off (as is utterly pointless to do so), so went to the court to fight it and ended up with the same original fine as I started with so all worked out ok.
The fine was £100, the CPS recommendation in court was for me to pay £110 plus £32 court costs, so even worst case scenario isn't a lot worse
I dread to think how much it would have cost the taxpayer because of their backwards processes |
Hi Joe, thanks for giving your experience.
By send off license details, do you mean the actual physical license (either photocard or bit of paper that i think still exists)?
All i returned was the form sent by the police in the post (Section 172 Statement) which asks to declare if you were the driver and to give your driving lincese number.
Strangely a scanned copy of this section 172 has been provided with the SJP correspondence. I've looked over this form and no where does it say your license needs to be returned and I have completed all the sections that have been asked for.
I have never been asked to provide any additional info.
Looking at this https://www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties it seems to suggest either i'll be sent an FPN or a letter telling me to go to court.
However I have received both 5 months apart. I settled the FPN, £100 pound fine, have my payment receipt and heard nothing since until receiving this SPJ yesterday. | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 09:57 - Aug 27 with 5412 views | bournemouthblue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 08:49 - Aug 27 by N2_Blue |
Thanks for this info (and to the others who have also contributed, much appreciated).
The reference number on the SJP matches the reference made on my payment so has to be the same matter.
Will definitely look to call the Court and see if they can shed any more light.
Someone suggested that the SJP and court proceedings could just be to establish the points I'll be awarded. Is that a possibility? Is 80 in a 70 considered a serious enough offence that could be awarded more than 3 penalty points? Is it usual to get a fine on top of the PCN for this offence? |
Highly unlikely, I would think, copper was advising me upto 87 would be a speed awareness course, which seemed a fairly high threshold |  |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:07 - Aug 27 with 5388 views | itfcjoe |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 09:56 - Aug 27 by N2_Blue |
Hi Joe, thanks for giving your experience.
By send off license details, do you mean the actual physical license (either photocard or bit of paper that i think still exists)?
All i returned was the form sent by the police in the post (Section 172 Statement) which asks to declare if you were the driver and to give your driving lincese number.
Strangely a scanned copy of this section 172 has been provided with the SJP correspondence. I've looked over this form and no where does it say your license needs to be returned and I have completed all the sections that have been asked for.
I have never been asked to provide any additional info.
Looking at this https://www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties it seems to suggest either i'll be sent an FPN or a letter telling me to go to court.
However I have received both 5 months apart. I settled the FPN, £100 pound fine, have my payment receipt and heard nothing since until receiving this SPJ yesterday. |
I think you may have done the same as I did then - because I sent all the details of, and then was issued with the fine which i paid online.
Apparently, when you make the payment online it tells you that you need to send your physical licence to the DVLA to get your points. I didn't see this, so didn't do it - and the first I knew about it was when I received the court papers and the fine was refunded back to me.
I could write a long essay about the process, and the literal thousands of pounds wasted, but ultimately you have to send your physical licence away to get the points* and by not doing so you are deemed to not accept the 'conditional offer' of 3 points and £100 fine.
Why they don't chase this, or send a reminder e-mail or letter is anyone's guess.
*After my court hearing, where I was awarded my 3 points - I didn't have to send my licence away to get the points.....so square that circle! | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:27 - Aug 27 with 5300 views | N2_Blue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:07 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I think you may have done the same as I did then - because I sent all the details of, and then was issued with the fine which i paid online.
Apparently, when you make the payment online it tells you that you need to send your physical licence to the DVLA to get your points. I didn't see this, so didn't do it - and the first I knew about it was when I received the court papers and the fine was refunded back to me.
I could write a long essay about the process, and the literal thousands of pounds wasted, but ultimately you have to send your physical licence away to get the points* and by not doing so you are deemed to not accept the 'conditional offer' of 3 points and £100 fine.
Why they don't chase this, or send a reminder e-mail or letter is anyone's guess.
*After my court hearing, where I was awarded my 3 points - I didn't have to send my licence away to get the points.....so square that circle! |
FFS, this looks like the issue then, makes the most sense.
As your outcome wasn't actually too bad, mainly lost time and effort i'm interested to know if you pleaded guilty or not guilty to the SJP? I think you have to plead not guilty to get the court appearance and claim mitigation / put your case forward. The thing is it says the offence is the speeding conviction (not failing to submit license details).
I'm not disputing the speeding offence as I am guilty so it's all incredibly unclear.
Trying the helpline too - 45 minute wait time currently! | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:39 - Aug 27 with 5212 views | DJR |
The requirement to send off your licence seems a nonsense, and this from the following article suggests the law has changed, but bizarrely it now seems to depend on the particular police area.
https://thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk/2018/06/16/post-in-your-driving-licence-when-y
"The law has changed. On 30/11/2022 new rules came into force which abolished the requirement to post in a physical driving licence when a motorist accepts a fixed penalty.
This means that some police areas no longer require the physical licence to be posted in. Not all areas have changed; if the notice tells you to post in the photocard licence, you must still do so.
The new rules say to accept a fixed penalty a motorist must:
Pay the amount of the fixed penalty;
Provide their name;
Provide their date of birth and
Provide their driver number if they have one.
The rest of this article is out of date. I have left it online because the consequences of not completing the identification information (name, date of birth and driver number) are just the same as not posting in the physical licence." [Post edited 27 Aug 2024 10:51]
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:51 - Aug 27 with 5132 views | itfcjoe |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:27 - Aug 27 by N2_Blue |
FFS, this looks like the issue then, makes the most sense.
As your outcome wasn't actually too bad, mainly lost time and effort i'm interested to know if you pleaded guilty or not guilty to the SJP? I think you have to plead not guilty to get the court appearance and claim mitigation / put your case forward. The thing is it says the offence is the speeding conviction (not failing to submit license details).
I'm not disputing the speeding offence as I am guilty so it's all incredibly unclear.
Trying the helpline too - 45 minute wait time currently! |
I can't remember which option chose but pretty sure plead guilty but wanted to say mitigating circumstances - just read a pre prepared statement.
Judge said I clearly wasn't trying to defraud system, so knocked my fine from £100 to £68, which with the court fee took it back to £100 so ended up where i started.
I then paid it straight away with reference given, then got a letter a few days later saying should have used a different reference, phoned them and told them this and got 3-4 more letters saying I hadn't paid it.... | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:00 - Aug 27 with 5097 views | DJR |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:27 - Aug 27 by N2_Blue |
FFS, this looks like the issue then, makes the most sense.
As your outcome wasn't actually too bad, mainly lost time and effort i'm interested to know if you pleaded guilty or not guilty to the SJP? I think you have to plead not guilty to get the court appearance and claim mitigation / put your case forward. The thing is it says the offence is the speeding conviction (not failing to submit license details).
I'm not disputing the speeding offence as I am guilty so it's all incredibly unclear.
Trying the helpline too - 45 minute wait time currently! |
I think you have to plead guilty but I am not sure you need to attend court as paragraph 3 of the following suggests you still have the opportunity to put in mitigation (presumably online). On the other hand, perhaps you'd rather be there to make sure what happens, given the rather Kafkaesque nature of what's gone on before.
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-deal-single-justice-procedure-notice-sjp
That article also says the following.
If you respond and plead guilty you will get a 33% reduction in the fine.
You are also asked if you want to attend court or not. In many cases attending won’t be necessary. If you choose not to attend court, you will also not have to pay any court costs. | | | |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:25 - Aug 27 with 5026 views | N2_Blue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 10:51 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I can't remember which option chose but pretty sure plead guilty but wanted to say mitigating circumstances - just read a pre prepared statement.
Judge said I clearly wasn't trying to defraud system, so knocked my fine from £100 to £68, which with the court fee took it back to £100 so ended up where i started.
I then paid it straight away with reference given, then got a letter a few days later saying should have used a different reference, phoned them and told them this and got 3-4 more letters saying I hadn't paid it.... |
Thanks Joe | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:29 - Aug 27 with 5016 views | N2_Blue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:00 - Aug 27 by DJR |
I think you have to plead guilty but I am not sure you need to attend court as paragraph 3 of the following suggests you still have the opportunity to put in mitigation (presumably online). On the other hand, perhaps you'd rather be there to make sure what happens, given the rather Kafkaesque nature of what's gone on before.
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-deal-single-justice-procedure-notice-sjp
That article also says the following.
If you respond and plead guilty you will get a 33% reduction in the fine.
You are also asked if you want to attend court or not. In many cases attending won’t be necessary. If you choose not to attend court, you will also not have to pay any court costs. |
Thank for this, yes just noted i am able to make a statement on their form online.
I am pleading guilty (i am guilty of the driving offence) but explaining on their form that I paid the fine and provided license details on the section 172 and thought the matter was dealth with. I've selected the 'Not to to attend Court' option but in my statement have added that I am full willing to attend Court if i need to put forward my case or their are some factors I appear to be completly unaware of in relation for the SJP and charge. | |
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:45 - Aug 27 with 4951 views | DJR |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:29 - Aug 27 by N2_Blue |
Thank for this, yes just noted i am able to make a statement on their form online.
I am pleading guilty (i am guilty of the driving offence) but explaining on their form that I paid the fine and provided license details on the section 172 and thought the matter was dealth with. I've selected the 'Not to to attend Court' option but in my statement have added that I am full willing to attend Court if i need to put forward my case or their are some factors I appear to be completly unaware of in relation for the SJP and charge. |
Good luck! [Post edited 27 Aug 2024 11:46]
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| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:50 - Aug 27 with 4909 views | N2_Blue |
| Advice needed regarding a Single Justice Procedure that i believe is an error on 11:45 - Aug 27 by DJR |
Good luck! [Post edited 27 Aug 2024 11:46]
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Cheers fella.
And advice to anyone that may happen to get a speeding conviction and settle a Fixed conditional offer.
- Make sure you send your license details (twice - at time of accepting conditional offer AND when paying the fine.
- Then double check the points are applied to the license!
I've just checked online and see points haven't been recorded for the offence so adminstratively something has gone amiss. | |
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