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I mentioned recently his aerial ability over Wolfys and the below has shown it is a very important aspect of his game and one of the biggest reasons he's in the side.
We allow a lot of crosses to come into our box, plus we do concede a fair amount of set pieces from corners to freekicks so I can see why KM does find that an important attribute.
2023/24 season, Wolfy according to footy stats was in the top 71% of winning aerial duals compared to O'Shea's 98%
I would expect Woolfie to have a high pass rate %, because his passes are mostly 3-4ft in length and mostly sideways, right, or back to the keeper. Looks good but achieves nothing. Compare that to Axel who mostly passes forwards and brings the ball out quicker. Yes I know he’s mainly played at RB, but in the odd game he has at CB that was how he played.
Aerial ability. Woolfie might get his head to a ball, but all too often lacks pier, direction or clearance . As the bloke stood in front of me constantly says, he’s hit a 50p piece for a head (his words not mine).
Fouls: Woolfie rarely tackles his opponents. He prefers to run along side them and hopefully guide them to the by line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn’t. He’s not as quick as some of you think he is.
Physical presence in the box: Woolfie has minimal. He constantly drops back into a space towards his own goal line. He rarely tackles, wins headers or out muscles his opponent. O’Shea…. And Greaves do.
He will remain a back up CB now I feel. His level is Championship at best. He’s vastly overrated on here.
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:13 - Sep 26 by pointofblue
Regarding mistakes - Woolfenden was generally hung, drawn and quartered whenever he made an error on here. Yet O'Shea, as you mention Greaves, and even Davis, seem to be let off when they do something similar. There seems to be a greater expectation on him from certain posters who are now giving leeway to O'Shea and co. That is perhaps where some of the agitation is coming from, at least on my part.
Yeah I get that, that's why on saturday i was trying to balance the chat about mistakes to cover not only O shea but also Greaves. I think if mistakes are going to be discussed then at least be fair and discuss those that all players make not just base it on personal favourites.
Absolutely wolfy made mistakes, but lets not forget burgess being torn a new one inside out by anyone with quick feet last year ( he got better of course without question) and Davis, we've seen him have some right horror shows at the back.
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:18 - Sep 26 by ArnieM
I would expect Woolfie to have a high pass rate %, because his passes are mostly 3-4ft in length and mostly sideways, right, or back to the keeper. Looks good but achieves nothing. Compare that to Axel who mostly passes forwards and brings the ball out quicker. Yes I know he’s mainly played at RB, but in the odd game he has at CB that was how he played.
Aerial ability. Woolfie might get his head to a ball, but all too often lacks pier, direction or clearance . As the bloke stood in front of me constantly says, he’s hit a 50p piece for a head (his words not mine).
Fouls: Woolfie rarely tackles his opponents. He prefers to run along side them and hopefully guide them to the by line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn’t. He’s not as quick as some of you think he is.
Physical presence in the box: Woolfie has minimal. He constantly drops back into a space towards his own goal line. He rarely tackles, wins headers or out muscles his opponent. O’Shea…. And Greaves do.
He will remain a back up CB now I feel. His level is Championship at best. He’s vastly overrated on here.
By Axel’s odd game at centre back - are you referring to the 2-2 at Rotherham or the 0-4 at Leeds?
Edit: sorry, forgot Maidstone
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 14:30]
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The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:44 - Sep 26 with 1393 views
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:18 - Sep 26 by ArnieM
I would expect Woolfie to have a high pass rate %, because his passes are mostly 3-4ft in length and mostly sideways, right, or back to the keeper. Looks good but achieves nothing. Compare that to Axel who mostly passes forwards and brings the ball out quicker. Yes I know he’s mainly played at RB, but in the odd game he has at CB that was how he played.
Aerial ability. Woolfie might get his head to a ball, but all too often lacks pier, direction or clearance . As the bloke stood in front of me constantly says, he’s hit a 50p piece for a head (his words not mine).
Fouls: Woolfie rarely tackles his opponents. He prefers to run along side them and hopefully guide them to the by line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn’t. He’s not as quick as some of you think he is.
Physical presence in the box: Woolfie has minimal. He constantly drops back into a space towards his own goal line. He rarely tackles, wins headers or out muscles his opponent. O’Shea…. And Greaves do.
He will remain a back up CB now I feel. His level is Championship at best. He’s vastly overrated on here.
Wow, what a terrible player he is.
McKenna must be a terrible manager to have selected him for so long.
You're so unbalanced on Wolf it is impossible not to reply.
He's a seriously good player: high technical skills, good passing, vision, excellent positional sense, great understanding of the benefit of not diving in, obvious understanding of the role (which includes slowing the game down to preserve energy for teammates).
Is he an 'up and at em' centre half who wins lots of tackles and headers - no. Is he the quickest - no Is O'Shea better - I hope so.
Doing him down is so pointless. He's a really good player who has got better and better over the past 2+ years.
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The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:47 - Sep 26 with 1372 views
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:18 - Sep 26 by ArnieM
I would expect Woolfie to have a high pass rate %, because his passes are mostly 3-4ft in length and mostly sideways, right, or back to the keeper. Looks good but achieves nothing. Compare that to Axel who mostly passes forwards and brings the ball out quicker. Yes I know he’s mainly played at RB, but in the odd game he has at CB that was how he played.
Aerial ability. Woolfie might get his head to a ball, but all too often lacks pier, direction or clearance . As the bloke stood in front of me constantly says, he’s hit a 50p piece for a head (his words not mine).
Fouls: Woolfie rarely tackles his opponents. He prefers to run along side them and hopefully guide them to the by line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn’t. He’s not as quick as some of you think he is.
Physical presence in the box: Woolfie has minimal. He constantly drops back into a space towards his own goal line. He rarely tackles, wins headers or out muscles his opponent. O’Shea…. And Greaves do.
He will remain a back up CB now I feel. His level is Championship at best. He’s vastly overrated on here.
On the plus side, he's obviously improved slightly as you didn't even rate him as a Championship player previously.
That’s a brilliant pass, takes their centre back out of the game and creates space in behind for us to score - if you can’t recognise that and call it a ‘10 yard pass’ there’s a reason our opinions are different
As I say I appreciate your thoughts, but this sort of passing effort is what i've learned is O'sheas game. BTW im sure we both can post a load of vids, but just thought as you did one i would too lol
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:49 - Sep 26 by FrimleyBlue
As I say I appreciate your thoughts, but this sort of passing effort is what i've learned is O'sheas game. BTW im sure we both can post a load of vids, but just thought as you did one i would too lol
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 14:52]
Why do you try and create arguments?
Of course O'Shea is good! We paid a lot of money for him and our manager is no mug.
And Wolf is good too.
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The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:59 - Sep 26 with 1324 views
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:49 - Sep 26 by FrimleyBlue
As I say I appreciate your thoughts, but this sort of passing effort is what i've learned is O'sheas game. BTW im sure we both can post a load of vids, but just thought as you did one i would too lol
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 14:52]
IMO the majority of us who wish Woolfenden had been given more of a chance after his strong start of the season aren't disputing that O'Shea is anything but a good player. The issue is, unlike Greaves, Phillips, Szmodics and maybe Delap (albeit Hirst has been injured), we haven't seen it on the pitch for us as of yet compared to the player he has replaced.
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:49 - Sep 26 by FrimleyBlue
As I say I appreciate your thoughts, but this sort of passing effort is what i've learned is O'sheas game. BTW im sure we both can post a load of vids, but just thought as you did one i would too lol
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 14:52]
If Wolfie did it you would call it a hit and hope
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The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 15:01 - Sep 26 with 1312 views
By Axel’s odd game at centre back - are you referring to the 2-2 at Rotherham or the 0-4 at Leeds?
Edit: sorry, forgot Maidstone
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 14:30]
Funny how people were claiming Axel was so good last season when he was rubbish at CB when he played - he's done really well at RB now he's grown into the role but is not good on the ball like the rest of our defenders are but is playing the role very well this season and hopefully continues to.
Anyone who was claiming he was better CB than Woolf last year was watching the games with their eyes closed
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 15:01 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe
Funny how people were claiming Axel was so good last season when he was rubbish at CB when he played - he's done really well at RB now he's grown into the role but is not good on the ball like the rest of our defenders are but is playing the role very well this season and hopefully continues to.
Anyone who was claiming he was better CB than Woolf last year was watching the games with their eyes closed
Yeah he wasn't great.
Wonder if he has indeed made the RB spot his own now, or if KM is just working on Johnson.
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 15:01 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe
Funny how people were claiming Axel was so good last season when he was rubbish at CB when he played - he's done really well at RB now he's grown into the role but is not good on the ball like the rest of our defenders are but is playing the role very well this season and hopefully continues to.
Anyone who was claiming he was better CB than Woolf last year was watching the games with their eyes closed
Besides Arnie I haven't noticed that claim too often (fully agree with your conclusion, Axel was a liability in his fleeting appearances at CB, now arguably our best performer of the season at RB). Burgess was narrowly our best CB last season IMO, with Woolf just behind him. Both of them are good Championship defenders at worst.
O'Shea has made far more defensive interventions since he came in, more than I'd appreciated from watching, albeit he did seem to be everywhere against Brighton. 14 duels won in 2 games, 78%, compared to 4 won in 3 games, 44%. 7 aerial duels won in 2 games, 75%, compared to 3 won in 3 games, 50%. 3 tackles won in 2 games, 100%, compared to zero tackles in 3 games. 8 interceptions in 2 games, compared to 6 interceptions in 3 games. More blocks and recoveries too, that's a serious uptick in stopping attacks from O'Shea and hammers home the difference in playing styles: Woolf ever the shepherd, O'Shea looking more like a berserker comparatively. In possession it's Woolf who has the clear upper hand from displays so far, so hopefully O'Shea closes the gap here quickly as McKenna looks to have found his new CB pairing.
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The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 16:42 - Sep 26 with 1151 views
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 15:37 - Sep 26 by Vegtablue
Besides Arnie I haven't noticed that claim too often (fully agree with your conclusion, Axel was a liability in his fleeting appearances at CB, now arguably our best performer of the season at RB). Burgess was narrowly our best CB last season IMO, with Woolf just behind him. Both of them are good Championship defenders at worst.
O'Shea has made far more defensive interventions since he came in, more than I'd appreciated from watching, albeit he did seem to be everywhere against Brighton. 14 duels won in 2 games, 78%, compared to 4 won in 3 games, 44%. 7 aerial duels won in 2 games, 75%, compared to 3 won in 3 games, 50%. 3 tackles won in 2 games, 100%, compared to zero tackles in 3 games. 8 interceptions in 2 games, compared to 6 interceptions in 3 games. More blocks and recoveries too, that's a serious uptick in stopping attacks from O'Shea and hammers home the difference in playing styles: Woolf ever the shepherd, O'Shea looking more like a berserker comparatively. In possession it's Woolf who has the clear upper hand from displays so far, so hopefully O'Shea closes the gap here quickly as McKenna looks to have found his new CB pairing.
I know these ratings aren't always the be all and end all, but FotMob has O'Shea has our best player so far by some distance (with the caveat he missed games where everyone had a low rating v Liverpool and Man City)
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 16:42 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe
I know these ratings aren't always the be all and end all, but FotMob has O'Shea has our best player so far by some distance (with the caveat he missed games where everyone had a low rating v Liverpool and Man City)
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 14:05 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe
I think because people throught that re Greaves and Burgess, and then Greaves played and blew people away they were expecting the same to happen in that position
I dunno. I just watched the highlight reel for Greaves at Hull and on the basis of that alone was amazed we'd get him for £15m - more to the point that at least half the PL clubs weren't in for him.
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 16:46 - Sep 26 by pointofblue
How are FotMob's ratings done?
Have to admit, I'm amazed at that - albeit, as said, he missed the Liverpool and Manchester City games which would have helped.
Don't mean to be blunt, but Davis being that high this season is... a choice.
"FotMob's player rating system is a consistent and reliable source of data that measures various aspects of a player's performance. The system uses advanced statistical models, like expected goals (xG) and expected goals on target (xGOT), to calculate player ratings.
Stats tracked Over 300 individual stats per player per match across more than 375 competitions worldwide. Purpose To get readers to think about whether they agree with the ratings and to do their own ratings."
They are unlikely to reflect one criticism of those who are unhappy with 0'Shea: that as well as misplacing passes, he's been too slow in possession. They're unlikely to discern the difference between a brilliant tackle and an easy one too, but they will diligently record bucket-loads of defending, attacking, passing information and more. Being dispossessed, 'miscontrolling' the ball, progressive passing distance, number of progressive passes received, times tackled during 'take-on', every type of shot-creating action, which third tackles are won in, all this stuff is monitored now and it's no surprise that we're leaning heavily into it (recently illustrated by the Goalkeeper.com collaboration).
Davis' page is here. He's played well in the last three games overall. He will also benefit from being our main set-piece taker, so naturally creates more than some others. https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/980381/leif-davis
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 17:46]
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The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 17:47 - Sep 26 with 1049 views
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 17:44 - Sep 26 by Vegtablue
"FotMob's player rating system is a consistent and reliable source of data that measures various aspects of a player's performance. The system uses advanced statistical models, like expected goals (xG) and expected goals on target (xGOT), to calculate player ratings.
Stats tracked Over 300 individual stats per player per match across more than 375 competitions worldwide. Purpose To get readers to think about whether they agree with the ratings and to do their own ratings."
They are unlikely to reflect one criticism of those who are unhappy with 0'Shea: that as well as misplacing passes, he's been too slow in possession. They're unlikely to discern the difference between a brilliant tackle and an easy one too, but they will diligently record bucket-loads of defending, attacking, passing information and more. Being dispossessed, 'miscontrolling' the ball, progressive passing distance, number of progressive passes received, times tackled during 'take-on', every type of shot-creating action, which third tackles are won in, all this stuff is monitored now and it's no surprise that we're leaning heavily into it (recently illustrated by the Goalkeeper.com collaboration).
Davis' page is here. He's played well in the last three games overall. He will also benefit from being our main set-piece taker, so naturally creates more than some others. https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/980381/leif-davis
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 17:46]
Thanks. I mean, I get it - O'Shea is apparently great, and Woolfenden is apparently rubbish, but... it's tough I suppose. It's the "no room for sentimentality here" change which has hit the hardest.
The O'Shea v Wolfy thing on 17:47 - Sep 26 by pointofblue
Thanks. I mean, I get it - O'Shea is apparently great, and Woolfenden is apparently rubbish, but... it's tough I suppose. It's the "no room for sentimentality here" change which has hit the hardest.
Woolf isn't rubbish and O'Shea hasn't been great, so I sympathise with your point of view and appreciate why there are differing opinions on this. How I like to think of it is this is a squad game and everyone in it is important. McKenna wanted to bring in competition for RCB, realistically a new first-choice (we tried to sign McNally in summer 2023 but missed out to Stoke), and that's disappointing for Woolf personally but this remains an exciting period for all of the squad. If you asked those outside the XI if they'd prefer to be playing more and paid less in the division below, I think most would want to remain part of our group and part of the Premier League for now. It's a big deal and career first for the majority.
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