| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... 08:46 - Jan 13 with 3803 views | tonybied |
...want to play in a Welsh Cup competition to be able to qualify for Europe, should they be forced to play in the Welsh Leagues? Is that not a case of having your cake and eating it too? |  | | |  |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 08:50 - Jan 13 with 3041 views | EastTownBlue |
It used to be the case through the Cup Winners' Cup. No they shouldn't but I imagine that it would be a scheduling nightmare to fit in Europa League matches with a 46 match league season. |  | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 08:53 - Jan 13 with 3012 views | Dennyx4 |
Another question should be, are they allowed in the FA Cup as well as the Welsh cup? |  | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:02 - Jan 13 with 2946 views | cvillageblue |
I know I'm biased as a Welshman - but this is just a case of the FA of Wales trying their best to develop the game here and more specifically raise the profile of the domestic game. No need to get worked up about it.
I agree it does show inconsistency - but these historic inconsistencies are very complex to sort out. | |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:11 - Jan 13 with 2859 views | Europablue |
Those teams may be Welsh, but they should entirely come under the English system if they choose to be in the English league. | | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:21 - Jan 13 with 2811 views | algy |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:02 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
I know I'm biased as a Welshman - but this is just a case of the FA of Wales trying their best to develop the game here and more specifically raise the profile of the domestic game. No need to get worked up about it.
I agree it does show inconsistency - but these historic inconsistencies are very complex to sort out. |
The right way to raise the profile of Welsh football is for Swansea Cardiff Wrexham and Newport to participate in the Cymru Premier. | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:25 - Jan 13 with 2771 views | cvillageblue |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:21 - Jan 13 by algy |
The right way to raise the profile of Welsh football is for Swansea Cardiff Wrexham and Newport to participate in the Cymru Premier. |
And force dramatic change on 4 clubs? Very harsh.
Put yourself in the shoes of the fans of those clubs | |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:29 - Jan 13 with 2735 views | tonybied |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 08:53 - Jan 13 by Dennyx4 |
Another question should be, are they allowed in the FA Cup as well as the Welsh cup? |
I think that should be, should they be allowed to enter the EFL Cup but yes, I agree this is a pertinent question.
I can't see how they would be able to fit it into the calendar without dropping out of an English Cup competition to be honest. Which was kinda my point, I know I didn't really state that originally but if they are going to choose not to enter an English competition to enter a Welsh one then that doesn't sit right with me. They should either decide to be part of the English competitions or Welsh ones not pick and choose what suits their interests best. | | | |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:31 - Jan 13 with 2717 views | algy |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:25 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
And force dramatic change on 4 clubs? Very harsh.
Put yourself in the shoes of the fans of those clubs |
The fans who are anti English? They need to make a choice, but won't so they can benefit from being part of the EFL and FA systems. They're Welsh when they want to be. [Post edited 13 Jan 9:32]
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| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:33 - Jan 13 with 2694 views | Asa |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:25 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
And force dramatic change on 4 clubs? Very harsh.
Put yourself in the shoes of the fans of those clubs |
Indeed.
A lot of context here that the FAW have worked hard to develop the game with the expansion, move to Friday night matches and are doing some good work in the right direction. Nothing wrong at all with them wanting to get the best for their members.
A move to the Cymru Premier would kill Cardiff and Swansea pretty much overnight in terms of revenues and destroy the rest of the pyramid into the bargain. A non starter.
Ultimately as you say it's a very historic muddle that has no ideal solution. I'm opposed to the EFL four being allowed into the cup as a European place gives anyone outside that four winning it little to no chance.
You only have to look at how big TNS selling a player for £300k was to see the differences. This was headline news for the Cymru Premier but was a fee similar to what Wrexham were paying regular in the conference for the likes of Oli Palmer.
Given we now have Welsh and Irish clubs in the Scottish Cup and U21 sides in the EFL trophy, I'd have no issue with the Welsh sides joining the Welsh League Cup without a qualification spot. Would be a massive kick in the teeth for my own Haverfordwest, Penybont, Bala etc. (not sure anyone's heart would bleed for TNS lol) to have a much needed, club changing route into Europe effectively blocked by four teams with resources they can only dream of.
We've had English clubs in Scotland, Scottish clubs in the English leagues, Welsh clubs in the English leagues. You can't just stick two teams together that have ridiculously contrasting infrastructures, fan bases and revenue streams.
I say this as someone who has a season ticket for ITFC and a club in the Cymru Premier and will be somehow trying to balance both next season as much as physically possible! [Post edited 13 Jan 10:41]
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:36 - Jan 13 with 2629 views | Asa |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:31 - Jan 13 by algy |
The fans who are anti English? They need to make a choice, but won't so they can benefit from being part of the EFL and FA systems. They're Welsh when they want to be. [Post edited 13 Jan 9:32]
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Heaven forbid any club looking after their own interests?
No club is any different. If you're offered something that benefits you then you're strangely going to consider it aren't you.
Ashton would be no different, nor would the Glazers. Ultimately morals come into play which is why some teams won't have a betting sponsor, but you can bet if there was a chance for Town to be involved in some US League Cup as a guest and the finances were eye watering that we'd look at it.
Just like sadly we'll be looking at pre-season matches in Asia at some stage in the next few years if we are still in the top flight.
The Welsh clubs have been members of the English League whilst still being situated in Wales which is complex. Of course they want their cake and to eat it if offered, just like any other club would.. | | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:42 - Jan 13 with 2543 views | algy |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:33 - Jan 13 by Asa |
Indeed.
A lot of context here that the FAW have worked hard to develop the game with the expansion, move to Friday night matches and are doing some good work in the right direction. Nothing wrong at all with them wanting to get the best for their members.
A move to the Cymru Premier would kill Cardiff and Swansea pretty much overnight in terms of revenues and destroy the rest of the pyramid into the bargain. A non starter.
Ultimately as you say it's a very historic muddle that has no ideal solution. I'm opposed to the EFL four being allowed into the cup as a European place gives anyone outside that four winning it little to no chance.
You only have to look at how big TNS selling a player for £300k was to see the differences. This was headline news for the Cymru Premier but was a fee similar to what Wrexham were paying regular in the conference for the likes of Oli Palmer.
Given we now have Welsh and Irish clubs in the Scottish Cup and U21 sides in the EFL trophy, I'd have no issue with the Welsh sides joining the Welsh League Cup without a qualification spot. Would be a massive kick in the teeth for my own Haverfordwest, Penybont, Bala etc. (not sure anyone's heart would bleed for TNS lol) to have a much needed, club changing route into Europe effectively blocked by four teams with resources they can only dream of.
We've had English clubs in Scotland, Scottish clubs in the English leagues, Welsh clubs in the English leagues. You can't just stick two teams together that have ridiculously contrasting infrastructures, fan bases and revenue streams.
I say this as someone who has a season ticket for ITFC and a club in the Cymru Premier and will be somehow trying to balance both next season as much as physically possible! [Post edited 13 Jan 10:41]
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Currently there are four Welsh clubs taking places the English Football League that should be occupied by English clubs. Welsh clubs should have some pride in their country and back their own league instead of living off the English. Not just Welsh when they want to be. | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:46 - Jan 13 with 2503 views | algy |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:36 - Jan 13 by Asa |
Heaven forbid any club looking after their own interests?
No club is any different. If you're offered something that benefits you then you're strangely going to consider it aren't you.
Ashton would be no different, nor would the Glazers. Ultimately morals come into play which is why some teams won't have a betting sponsor, but you can bet if there was a chance for Town to be involved in some US League Cup as a guest and the finances were eye watering that we'd look at it.
Just like sadly we'll be looking at pre-season matches in Asia at some stage in the next few years if we are still in the top flight.
The Welsh clubs have been members of the English League whilst still being situated in Wales which is complex. Of course they want their cake and to eat it if offered, just like any other club would.. |
Two of the four Welsh clubs have only been in the EFL for a short period. Wrexham used to be but once they left it they should never have been allowed in. | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:47 - Jan 13 with 2489 views | Asa |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:46 - Jan 13 by algy |
Two of the four Welsh clubs have only been in the EFL for a short period. Wrexham used to be but once they left it they should never have been allowed in. |
By left it do you mean relegated from one division of the English pyramid into another? | | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:48 - Jan 13 with 2477 views | MattinLondon |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:31 - Jan 13 by algy |
The fans who are anti English? They need to make a choice, but won't so they can benefit from being part of the EFL and FA systems. They're Welsh when they want to be. [Post edited 13 Jan 9:32]
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When English fans sing about Welshmen shagging sheep apparently it’s banter. But when the Welsh take the piss then it’s because they hate an entire nation. |  | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:50 - Jan 13 with 2439 views | WeirdFishes |
If they want to be in the English system, which I think most people have no issue with you can’t decide to conveniently play in the Welsh cup just to qualify for Europe. It’s just unfair, they’re basically giving themselves a 33% chance of being in Europe every season where for the majority of other clubs at their level it’s about 0.1%.
Edit: I’d quite like a UK and Ireland cup though, I think people would much rather this than the Carling Cup. [Post edited 13 Jan 9:51]
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:59 - Jan 13 with 2381 views | cvillageblue |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:42 - Jan 13 by algy |
Currently there are four Welsh clubs taking places the English Football League that should be occupied by English clubs. Welsh clubs should have some pride in their country and back their own league instead of living off the English. Not just Welsh when they want to be. |
Until the 1990s there was no unified 'Welsh League'. I'm not sure that fans of those sides are 'Welsh when they want to be'. | |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:12 - Jan 13 with 2311 views | bsw72 |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:25 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
And force dramatic change on 4 clubs? Very harsh.
Put yourself in the shoes of the fans of those clubs |
It's easy for those outside of the direct impact to judge what is right and wrong
In effect it would most likely put a lot of people out of work at those clubs, reduce the development of Welsh football, and have a direct negative impact on local weekend economies. |  | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:19 - Jan 13 with 2243 views | algy |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:59 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
Until the 1990s there was no unified 'Welsh League'. I'm not sure that fans of those sides are 'Welsh when they want to be'. |
And when that league was formed they could and should have resigned from the Football League and applied to join it. Welsh when they want to be. | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:26 - Jan 13 with 2207 views | tonybied |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:25 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
And force dramatic change on 4 clubs? Very harsh.
Put yourself in the shoes of the fans of those clubs |
This conversation is being twisted. I have no issue with these Welsh clubs competing in English competitions.
It wouldn't be forcing them into that change. They are actively looking to join a Welsh competition whilst being registered in the English leagues. The choice would be theirs, carry on competing in English competitions as you are, or, if you want to join Welsh competitions then register in the Welsh leagues and compete with Welsh clubs on a day-to-day basis. | | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:57 - Jan 13 with 2089 views | wkj |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:02 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
I know I'm biased as a Welshman - but this is just a case of the FA of Wales trying their best to develop the game here and more specifically raise the profile of the domestic game. No need to get worked up about it.
I agree it does show inconsistency - but these historic inconsistencies are very complex to sort out. |
I honestly can't see why this is downvoted. The poster admitted bias, and gave an opinion from the other side of the coin. It's hardly rude and outrageous |  |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:59 - Jan 13 with 2078 views | Asa |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:19 - Jan 13 by algy |
And when that league was formed they could and should have resigned from the Football League and applied to join it. Welsh when they want to be. |
Just wait until you hear about SIX times Welsh FA Cup winners Shrewsbury Town. Half of the honours they've ever won have been the Welsh Cup!
See also 3 times winners Chester City, 2 times winners Crewe Alexander and 1 time winners Hereford United, Tranmere Rovers and Bristol City.
That's before we mention finalists like Kidderminster Harriers, Northwich Victoria, Stourbridge and Hednesford.
As you rightly say 'Welsh when they want to be'. [Post edited 13 Jan 11:28]
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 11:14 - Jan 13 with 1999 views | Ftnfwest |
they always used to qualify from the welsh cup back in the 70s and 80s |  | | |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 11:37 - Jan 13 with 1928 views | Guthrum |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 09:25 - Jan 13 by cvillageblue |
And force dramatic change on 4 clubs? Very harsh.
Put yourself in the shoes of the fans of those clubs |
It would probably also destroy the league as a competitive spectacle, dropping four hugely strong and wealthy clubs into that structure. Bad enough it's already dominated by a half-English club. |  |
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| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 11:49 - Jan 13 with 1887 views | algy |
| If the Welsh based clubs playing in the english leagues... on 10:59 - Jan 13 by Asa |
Just wait until you hear about SIX times Welsh FA Cup winners Shrewsbury Town. Half of the honours they've ever won have been the Welsh Cup!
See also 3 times winners Chester City, 2 times winners Crewe Alexander and 1 time winners Hereford United, Tranmere Rovers and Bristol City.
That's before we mention finalists like Kidderminster Harriers, Northwich Victoria, Stourbridge and Hednesford.
As you rightly say 'Welsh when they want to be'. [Post edited 13 Jan 11:28]
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And all of those should never have played in a Welsh F A competition, stopping Welsh teams from succeeding, possibly winning their national cup.
Shame on the nearly 149 year old Football Association of Wales for not just allowing but inviting that to happen. Have the FAW got no pride in their country and it's football? | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. |
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