| Team for villa 11:48 - Feb 9 with 6738 views | smithy69 |
Shows how far we have come as a squad and team that I can’t actually pick the probable 11 on Saturday with any confidence. Do we drop morsy? Where does enciso fit in ? Does Clarke deserve a start
For me -
Palmer
Tuanzebe
O shea
Greaves
Leif
Cajuste
Phillips
Enciso
Hutch
Philogene
Delap
The bench will be (barring szmodics) probably the strongest I’ve ever seen at Ipswich
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| Team for villa on 20:37 - Feb 9 with 1510 views | Kieran_Knows |
Palmer
Tuanzebe O’Shea Greaves Davis
Morsy Cajuste
Hutchinson Enciso Clarke
Delap |  |
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| Team for villa on 20:51 - Feb 9 with 1477 views | jayessess |
| Team for villa on 20:34 - Feb 9 by portmanking |
Really surprised no-one is calling for Jack Clarke to get back-to-back starts.
The lad is crying out for some continuity and a chance to build some confidence. To bench him after Coventry would be a real shame IMO.
Back 4 and keeper probably picks itself but the rest I'd go:
Phillips
Cajuste
Omari (Johnson sub)
Enciso (Broadhead sub)
J. Clarke (Philogene sub)
Delap (Hirst sub) |
Think he last start for us in the league was off the back of a good cup performance, wasn't it? |  |
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| Team for villa on 21:30 - Feb 9 with 1436 views | portmanking |
| Team for villa on 20:51 - Feb 9 by jayessess |
Think he last start for us in the league was off the back of a good cup performance, wasn't it? |
Nope. He was benched for the Brighton game after Brizzle Rovers.
Give the lad 4-5 games now. He's got the Champ quality, let him try and crack the top flight and McKenna's style. Yesterday he looked to have mastered the patterns of play and press triggers much more intelligently IMO. | | | |
| Team for villa on 21:34 - Feb 9 with 1422 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 19:59 - Feb 9 by FrimleyBlue |
Yes. But with the understanding and arrangement that he comes on at the 65th minute.
Let hirst work with the front line. Bring them into the game. Make the defence work with his pressing.
Them introduce delap to batter tired legs. Or potentially make opposition make defensive subs to try and nullify drlap which then reduces their attacking sub ability. |
So just to confirm, you're dropping the one player who has made an impact nationally and has contributed to most of our goals based on the myth that PL defenders get tired later in the game like lower league defenders?
I would also argue that in order for them to tire we need to be attacking a lot more than we are in matches.
SB [Post edited 9 Feb 21:39]
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| Team for villa on 21:36 - Feb 9 with 1415 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 20:08 - Feb 9 by FrimleyBlue |
I do think it depends which version of delap is out there. Chelsea version was unplayable. But there's been many games around it where he's still a battering ram but imo wasn't really that influential for us.
Let's not forget he is still young and playing the role properly for the first time. It's to be expected that he will blow hot and cold. I just think if we rotate others. Let's route the strikers and see if it helps. We don't have anything to lose. |
I think this is hugely unfair on Delap.
In these games the issue wasn't Delap, it was not getting players forward to support Delap so he was having to do everything on his own against an entire back line with no other attacking threats to cover.
I don't think there is any real evidence he's "blowing hot and cold", he scored in our last match for instance with a well taken goal.
All looks a little narrative driven to me. I do like Hirst a lot, I think he's excellent but I just don't see how you can drop Delap at the moment. He's not going to be tired for instance, he barely played this week.
SB | | | |
| Team for villa on 21:45 - Feb 9 with 1391 views | Horsham |
| Team for villa on 21:34 - Feb 9 by StokieBlue |
So just to confirm, you're dropping the one player who has made an impact nationally and has contributed to most of our goals based on the myth that PL defenders get tired later in the game like lower league defenders?
I would also argue that in order for them to tire we need to be attacking a lot more than we are in matches.
SB [Post edited 9 Feb 21:39]
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As unusual as it sounds i find myself in agreement with Frimley. Delap’s very young still and probably been over used this season and I think potentially he could be even more effective if used from the bench. I also very much like Hirst’s running behind and link up play. Hirst hasn’t let us down in the PL yet. |  | | |
| Team for villa on 21:53 - Feb 9 with 1362 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Team for villa on 21:34 - Feb 9 by StokieBlue |
So just to confirm, you're dropping the one player who has made an impact nationally and has contributed to most of our goals based on the myth that PL defenders get tired later in the game like lower league defenders?
I would also argue that in order for them to tire we need to be attacking a lot more than we are in matches.
SB [Post edited 9 Feb 21:39]
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No you are Incorrect.
I would be using our other striker for a few games to potentially see an improvement In how our other forward players are able to be brought Into the game more. It might make a difference. It might not. But with us having rotated our defenders. Changing midfielders and changing our forward options. I don't see the harm in finding out if Hirst who's had more experience of playing the KM role actually would be the better starting striker choice whilst delap continues to develop.
Not sure why you're talking about myths. There's clearly a difference between league fatigues. However prem players do still get tired. It's just the nature of the beast.
Delap has scored 3 goals since November
The side has scored just 13 goals since November in 15 games.
The last game of October. We lost 4-3 to Brentford.
Striker that day was Hirst. Delap scored as a sub.
The only start Hirst had and delap came on later and we managed 3 goals away from home. |  |
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| Team for villa on 21:53 - Feb 9 with 1360 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 21:45 - Feb 9 by Horsham |
As unusual as it sounds i find myself in agreement with Frimley. Delap’s very young still and probably been over used this season and I think potentially he could be even more effective if used from the bench. I also very much like Hirst’s running behind and link up play. Hirst hasn’t let us down in the PL yet. |
To be fair, Hirst hasn't really played in the PL yet so I don't think that's a valid argument as the sample size is far too small.
We also have no evidence that Delap is more effective from the bench as that's not really happened either.
So both points have an almost zero sample size to support them.
Once again, I like Hirst a lot and think he would do a great job but just think the logic and evidence behind the "drop Delap" narrative just doesn't really stand up.
Guess we will see on Saturday though!
SB | | | |
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| Team for villa on 21:59 - Feb 9 with 1352 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Team for villa on 21:36 - Feb 9 by StokieBlue |
I think this is hugely unfair on Delap.
In these games the issue wasn't Delap, it was not getting players forward to support Delap so he was having to do everything on his own against an entire back line with no other attacking threats to cover.
I don't think there is any real evidence he's "blowing hot and cold", he scored in our last match for instance with a well taken goal.
All looks a little narrative driven to me. I do like Hirst a lot, I think he's excellent but I just don't see how you can drop Delap at the moment. He's not going to be tired for instance, he barely played this week.
SB |
There has been plenty of evidence SB but kinda sounding like lampard if you take away the goal...
When you watch Hirst and delap. They are different players. They make different runs. They hold the ball differently. One looks to hold it and try to take it forward the other finds the simple pass. Plays it and moves on.
We've seen goals conceded because delaps not chosen the simple pass to begin with.
Don't see it as an attack on delap it's not. Far from it. But they are simply two very different strikers and one imo is more about those around them v one who's an old school battering ram striker. Both very talented. | |
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| Team for villa on 21:59 - Feb 9 with 1346 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 21:53 - Feb 9 by FrimleyBlue |
No you are Incorrect.
I would be using our other striker for a few games to potentially see an improvement In how our other forward players are able to be brought Into the game more. It might make a difference. It might not. But with us having rotated our defenders. Changing midfielders and changing our forward options. I don't see the harm in finding out if Hirst who's had more experience of playing the KM role actually would be the better starting striker choice whilst delap continues to develop.
Not sure why you're talking about myths. There's clearly a difference between league fatigues. However prem players do still get tired. It's just the nature of the beast.
Delap has scored 3 goals since November
The side has scored just 13 goals since November in 15 games.
The last game of October. We lost 4-3 to Brentford.
Striker that day was Hirst. Delap scored as a sub.
The only start Hirst had and delap came on later and we managed 3 goals away from home. |
I do understand the rotation point, just seems rather harsh on Delap who has done very well in a very difficult and isolated role. Just seems like you are admitting it's a roll of the dice not really based on anything.
"Not sure why you're talking about myths. There's clearly a difference between league fatigues. However prem players do still get tired. It's just the nature of the beast."
Do they though? We don't attack relentlessly, I don't think they get tired to the level you are indicating which would make such a huge difference.
"Delap has scored 3 goals since November
The side has scored just 13 goals since November in 15 games."
So Delap has scored nearly 25% of our goals since November then? Once again it's harsh to put this on Delap, he's had barely any support in most these matches. Neither Hirst or Delap can bring players into the game who aren't attacking and up with play.
As I said to another poster, guess we will see on Saturday!
SB | | | |
| Team for villa on 22:01 - Feb 9 with 1346 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 21:59 - Feb 9 by FrimleyBlue |
There has been plenty of evidence SB but kinda sounding like lampard if you take away the goal...
When you watch Hirst and delap. They are different players. They make different runs. They hold the ball differently. One looks to hold it and try to take it forward the other finds the simple pass. Plays it and moves on.
We've seen goals conceded because delaps not chosen the simple pass to begin with.
Don't see it as an attack on delap it's not. Far from it. But they are simply two very different strikers and one imo is more about those around them v one who's an old school battering ram striker. Both very talented. |
None of that is evidence and your veiled insult is unnecessary. I've been civil in my points and presented evidence.
I'm going to leave it there now.
SB | | | |
| Team for villa on 22:05 - Feb 9 with 1323 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Team for villa on 22:01 - Feb 9 by StokieBlue |
None of that is evidence and your veiled insult is unnecessary. I've been civil in my points and presented evidence.
I'm going to leave it there now.
SB |
Wasn't an insult SB. I was referring to myself as sounding like lampard by saying take away the goal... | |
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| Team for villa on 22:31 - Feb 9 with 1300 views | Horsham |
| Team for villa on 21:53 - Feb 9 by StokieBlue |
To be fair, Hirst hasn't really played in the PL yet so I don't think that's a valid argument as the sample size is far too small.
We also have no evidence that Delap is more effective from the bench as that's not really happened either.
So both points have an almost zero sample size to support them.
Once again, I like Hirst a lot and think he would do a great job but just think the logic and evidence behind the "drop Delap" narrative just doesn't really stand up.
Guess we will see on Saturday though!
SB |
Hirst was very decent starting at Brentford. Small sample size but it happened and McKenna wasn’t forced to do it so it’s far from mad that it might happen again. Selection won’t be about how big a sample size of games Hirst has played. I’m simply saying it isn’t a bonkers suggestion that Hirst starts and Delap finishes the next game. That’s just my opinion of course. Well not just mine. Frimmers opinion too so we must both be wrong! To be fair others have suggested the same too. | | | |
| Team for villa on 05:16 - Feb 10 with 1149 views | Len_Brennan |
McKenna very much considers the opponent when picking his team for a particular game, and Villa have real problems with a lack of defenders for next week - Pau Torres, Konsa, Mings & Cash are all unavailable.
However, despite Watkins being injured & Duran sold, they'll have real strength & pace in attack with Bailey, Rogers, Ramsey & now Malen, Arsenio & Rashford in their squad; those are some pretty awesome options, particuarly with McGinn & Tielemans supplying from midfield, as Kamara has had to drop back into defence. Martinez is a top, top keeper as well.
So, do we attack with a 4-2-3-1, playing our skillful but slight widemen, in order to exploit their weakened defence, or do we give respect to their firepower upfront, and play 5 at the back to counter the threat of their forwards?
I suspect it will be the latter, particularly as we are away from home, which would suggest that Johnson will start & we'll go back to playing two #10s.
Palmer has to start, and given the pace & trickery of their attackers cutting in, I suspect he'll choose Greaves over Burgess on the left side of our centre backs. I think he'll go with:
Palmer
Johnson*, Tuanzebe, O'Shea, Greaves, Davis.
Phillips, Cajuste.
Hutchinson, Enciso.
Delap.
Bench:
Muric, Godfrey*, Townsend, Morsy, Taylor, Broadhead, Clarke, Philogene, Hirst.
*It wouldn't totally surprise me if Godfrey started over Johnson | | | |
| Team for villa on 08:18 - Feb 10 with 1072 views | PioneerBlue |
Palmer and Hirst for me. I would like to see us try something a bit different in an away game and Hirst offers this from the front in what will be a difficult away game. I would start Broadhead on the left 10 role as he is in form and contributing to getting us up the pitch. | |
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| Team for villa on 08:35 - Feb 10 with 1038 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 22:31 - Feb 9 by Horsham |
Hirst was very decent starting at Brentford. Small sample size but it happened and McKenna wasn’t forced to do it so it’s far from mad that it might happen again. Selection won’t be about how big a sample size of games Hirst has played. I’m simply saying it isn’t a bonkers suggestion that Hirst starts and Delap finishes the next game. That’s just my opinion of course. Well not just mine. Frimmers opinion too so we must both be wrong! To be fair others have suggested the same too. |
Not about being right or wrong, just that I don't think there is evidence to support the view and Frimley has even acknowledged it's a punt because we have rotated everywhere else.
Just don't think the tired legs logic stands up to any real analysis and I don't think Delap deserves to be dropped - he's by far our main contributor. It all seems to stem from players playing well against lower level teams - as soon as that happens it's translated to the PL without context that it's a significantly lower standard.
If Hirst plays then I have no problem with that and I hope he's as good and effective as he's always been, I am just not sure it'll happen and I personally wouldn't drop Delap but then I'm not the manager.
I personally think the issue isn't Hirst or Delap, it's getting players up there to help them out as neither is really going to be able to do it all on their own.
SB | | | |
| Team for villa on 09:52 - Feb 10 with 965 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Team for villa on 08:35 - Feb 10 by StokieBlue |
Not about being right or wrong, just that I don't think there is evidence to support the view and Frimley has even acknowledged it's a punt because we have rotated everywhere else.
Just don't think the tired legs logic stands up to any real analysis and I don't think Delap deserves to be dropped - he's by far our main contributor. It all seems to stem from players playing well against lower level teams - as soon as that happens it's translated to the PL without context that it's a significantly lower standard.
If Hirst plays then I have no problem with that and I hope he's as good and effective as he's always been, I am just not sure it'll happen and I personally wouldn't drop Delap but then I'm not the manager.
I personally think the issue isn't Hirst or Delap, it's getting players up there to help them out as neither is really going to be able to do it all on their own.
SB |
It's not about a performance against Coventry, many including myself have mentioned the hirst swap before the game saturday.
Personally SB I don't know why you need to see scientific evidence that players legs after 40 minutes of warm up, plus 60 minutes of football, would be more tired than they were at the start of the game. The anaysis is that teams make subs after 60 odd minutes because players get tired.
Recent stats showed that we were averaging around 81km covered per game, with opponents close to it, that's despite us not being an 'attacking threat'
I've no issue with you feeling delap shouldn't be dropped, we all have opinions on players.
I do feel the pressing and existing need for evidence of very obvious thoughts ( eg player tiredness however, just needless and agenda driven.
I shall leave it there, as I really don't want this going back to certain things, but it would just be nice to have a discussion with you about football without the needless requirements of evidence when all we are doing is having chats about football. | |
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| Team for villa on 10:18 - Feb 10 with 944 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 09:52 - Feb 10 by FrimleyBlue |
It's not about a performance against Coventry, many including myself have mentioned the hirst swap before the game saturday.
Personally SB I don't know why you need to see scientific evidence that players legs after 40 minutes of warm up, plus 60 minutes of football, would be more tired than they were at the start of the game. The anaysis is that teams make subs after 60 odd minutes because players get tired.
Recent stats showed that we were averaging around 81km covered per game, with opponents close to it, that's despite us not being an 'attacking threat'
I've no issue with you feeling delap shouldn't be dropped, we all have opinions on players.
I do feel the pressing and existing need for evidence of very obvious thoughts ( eg player tiredness however, just needless and agenda driven.
I shall leave it there, as I really don't want this going back to certain things, but it would just be nice to have a discussion with you about football without the needless requirements of evidence when all we are doing is having chats about football. |
"Personally SB I don't know why you need to see scientific evidence that players legs after 40 minutes of warm up, plus 60 minutes of football, would be more tired than they were at the start of the game. The anaysis is that teams make subs after 60 odd minutes because players get tired."
How many defenders are substituted against us because they are tired? If you can find the number I would be interested to see it. The simple point I am making is we don't attack enough to make seasoned and exceptional quality PL defenders tired in the way you are constantly saying. Delap would come on against people who have probably done very little defending and aren't tired at all which defeats the whole point of your argument which is using Delap against tired defenders.
This isn't a complicated argument to understand, I don't really know why you've misunderstood it numerous times now.
Football has evidence with which one can then form opinions, you don't like that and it's fine but to say others shouldn't use evidence or it has no place in footballing debates is ridiculous in the extreme.
Why do we have a huge industry around football statistics if that is the case?
SB | | | |
| Team for villa on 10:24 - Feb 10 with 935 views | portmanking |
| Team for villa on 10:18 - Feb 10 by StokieBlue |
"Personally SB I don't know why you need to see scientific evidence that players legs after 40 minutes of warm up, plus 60 minutes of football, would be more tired than they were at the start of the game. The anaysis is that teams make subs after 60 odd minutes because players get tired."
How many defenders are substituted against us because they are tired? If you can find the number I would be interested to see it. The simple point I am making is we don't attack enough to make seasoned and exceptional quality PL defenders tired in the way you are constantly saying. Delap would come on against people who have probably done very little defending and aren't tired at all which defeats the whole point of your argument which is using Delap against tired defenders.
This isn't a complicated argument to understand, I don't really know why you've misunderstood it numerous times now.
Football has evidence with which one can then form opinions, you don't like that and it's fine but to say others shouldn't use evidence or it has no place in footballing debates is ridiculous in the extreme.
Why do we have a huge industry around football statistics if that is the case?
SB |
You're being unnecessarily nitty about this.
Delap is in his first full season as a #9, in the toughest, most physically demanding league in the world. There's scientific evidence and data which backs that up. Yes, he's been a talisman for us, but it's also true that the prospect of burnout is real. With Hirst fit again, we have an opportunity to keep Delap fresher. | | | |
| Team for villa on 10:27 - Feb 10 with 924 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 10:24 - Feb 10 by portmanking |
You're being unnecessarily nitty about this.
Delap is in his first full season as a #9, in the toughest, most physically demanding league in the world. There's scientific evidence and data which backs that up. Yes, he's been a talisman for us, but it's also true that the prospect of burnout is real. With Hirst fit again, we have an opportunity to keep Delap fresher. |
I would agree with that if he hadn't had essentially two weeks rest.
If anything Hirst will be more tired after the shift he put in on the weekend and we are specifically talking about the team for the next match.
I do think Hirst would do a good job as I've said multiple times, I just don't understand the clamour across multiple threads to either drop Delap or play him RW, a position he has never really excelled at.
I may be proven wrong and he is dropped or excels at RW - we shall see I guess.
SB [Post edited 10 Feb 10:33]
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| Team for villa on 10:37 - Feb 10 with 902 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Team for villa on 10:18 - Feb 10 by StokieBlue |
"Personally SB I don't know why you need to see scientific evidence that players legs after 40 minutes of warm up, plus 60 minutes of football, would be more tired than they were at the start of the game. The anaysis is that teams make subs after 60 odd minutes because players get tired."
How many defenders are substituted against us because they are tired? If you can find the number I would be interested to see it. The simple point I am making is we don't attack enough to make seasoned and exceptional quality PL defenders tired in the way you are constantly saying. Delap would come on against people who have probably done very little defending and aren't tired at all which defeats the whole point of your argument which is using Delap against tired defenders.
This isn't a complicated argument to understand, I don't really know why you've misunderstood it numerous times now.
Football has evidence with which one can then form opinions, you don't like that and it's fine but to say others shouldn't use evidence or it has no place in footballing debates is ridiculous in the extreme.
Why do we have a huge industry around football statistics if that is the case?
SB |
I personally can't be bothered to going back and finding out about subs SB, but I know i've seen DM's come on, or another CB come on to assist a tiring backline, that's what i'd hope a delap introduction would do as a finisher in the game over a starter, make the opposition wary about introducing to many attacking subs, when they may need to help their backline to manage a fresh delap. Or even, the CB's themselves, they may not get the level of needing to be replaced, but you don't need evidence again to know their legs won't be as fresh as newly subbed on striker ( well unless you were brining on a returning from injury player of course) So even if delap was able to automatically gain a yard just by coming on, then that itself would be a bonus.
"This isn't a complicated argument to understand, I don't really know why you've misunderstood it numerous times now."
I don't feel I am, I just feel you believe defenders only get tired if they are against wave after wave of attacks, when they can get just as tired, but being pressed, and having to deal with counter attacks or balls into the channels, which we put Hirst into a lot when he plays,. He makes defenders move around a hell of a lot SB, so yes they would get tired. [Post edited 10 Feb 10:56]
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| Team for villa on 10:38 - Feb 10 with 900 views | baxterbasics |
I don't see Hirst starting over Delap, though I wouldn't have a problem if that's what KM decides.
But as has been said already, Delap's dry spells are more to do with the lack of support behind him rather than his own performance.
Delap has had more rest after only coming on as a sub on Saturday. Hutch also, so I expect him to start on the right with Enciso in the middle, unless Szmods ankle has made a miracle recovery.
The big call is on the left - take your pick from Jaden, Broadhead, Clarke. I would go Clarke after his day on Saturday assuming he's got the stamina. But it's a fine call between them all.
Getting our AM three properly firing is the key to having any hope, isn't it? Hopefully the rest sees Hutch back to form and Clarke/Jaden can start showing they can do it in the PL.
Palmer
Tuanzebe
O shea
Greaves
Leif
Cajuste
Phillips (expect Morsy though)
Enciso
Hutch
Clarke ?
Delap |  |
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| Team for villa on 10:42 - Feb 10 with 891 views | textbackup |
You want to start Philogene?
I don’t think we can afford passengers in tough away PL fixtures |  |
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| Team for villa on 11:21 - Feb 10 with 827 views | weepingx2018 |
| Team for villa on 12:13 - Feb 9 by unstableblue |
Given the strength of Villa's attack, which has been significantly strengthened. You may well see Johnson playing on the right, and deeper, as we move back to the low block. With only two behind Delap.
With Szmodics unavailable - which is a big blow in my view. Expect it will be Omari and Enciso. How Jack Clarke and Jaden are then used I'm not sure.
Would hope Hirst gets at least 20mins, and wonder if he even starts, he was very good away at Brentford, he seems to lead the younger players, and he looks on form. But of course Delap is a great asset. |
We are a better team with Hirst in it. | | | |
| Team for villa on 11:22 - Feb 10 with 823 views | StokieBlue |
| Team for villa on 11:21 - Feb 10 by weepingx2018 |
We are a better team with Hirst in it. |
This might well be correct.
However, can you explain what you are basing that on please?
SB [Post edited 10 Feb 11:23]
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