| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant 13:47 - Mar 3 with 4310 views | unstableblue |
For many years now there has been an alignment between Russian talking points, propaganda and misinformation and the media / social media that feeds the MAGA movement.
The point of this post is that is alignment is now moving into policy and action by the US government, including into political, defence and security decisions.
I am sure there a few even on this board that have some sympathy to these original MAGA views: NATO provoked Russian, the build up of Ukrainian troops threatened Moscow, Crime and the East of Ukraine are Russian enclaves. And the more extreme propaganda / conspiracy about bio-weapon labs, and investment funds, and nazi leadership in Kiev. etc etc
These MAGA views have been cemented by the likes of Tucker Carlson, the alt-right ex Fox news commentator, who seems a Russian patsy, and yet was give centre stage in the Trump inauguration. A dangerous individual.
Stepping back I think we all are very keen to see a lasting peace in Ukraine, to see our taxes spent not on defence but on health and education. We don't want escalation or British troops on the ground. But also I think people realise emboldening Russia now, will lead to further cost down the line. Sadly Russia was close to defeat, stagflation at home, a crippling of the economy by the defence footing - but the new US government has emboldened them.
But of course the facts remain that Putins has written a meif kampfesqe essay on Ukraine (mandatory reading for Russian military) which confirms his wish to expand the Russian motherland into Ukraine, is an ex-KGB operative who spied on western embassies, has murdered dissidents/opponents (including on foreign soil), has total control of Russian media, has been involved in conflicts in Georgia and Syria, has brought North Korean troops and sent 10,000s of conscripts to their deaths in Ukraine, has launched huge cyber warfare campaigns and is attacking western infrastructure, etc etc etc
Indeed last night Moscow launched a large scale aerial offensive against Ukraine with multiple military and civilian casualties.
Meanwhile in Washington, Tulsi Gabbard, the US Director of National Intelligence spouts pro-Kremlin and anti-Ukraine rhetoric. Musk amplifies Moscow messaging against Ukraine and Zelensky on X. Trump and JD Vance go after Zelensky in public. All of them parroting the original MAGA messaging that is in fact Kremlin misinformation that has been fed via cyber warfare into the US psyche.
AND crucially today: "The US has suspended operations and planning for offensive cyber operations against Russia"
Previous US governments, the FBI and CIA have proven the huge threat from Russia from their cyber operations, multiple enquiries and reports. And yet this administration are shutting down efforts to prevent and stop:
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/02/politics/us-cyber-operations-russia-suspend/i
These are remarkable events and times. |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 13:49 - Mar 3 with 3194 views | TractorWood |
BAE shares up 15%. Tells all you need to know. |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 13:59 - Mar 3 with 3122 views | lowhouseblue |
what ever did happen to cil? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:04 - Mar 3 with 3077 views | unstableblue |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 13:49 - Mar 3 by TractorWood |
BAE shares up 15%. Tells all you need to know. |
I think perhaps the Typhoon jet which was struggling will get a boost from this change in global power structures, as UK and Europe will be reluctant to rely on US military supply going forward and their fighter programmes. Which as you say will be a boost for BAE and British jobs.
But its a major stretch for me personally to say that is what is driving Europe and the UK's stance on Ukraine. That old military/industrial complex conspiracy theme.
Are you thinking we're doing war for war's sake? and Russia should be left to her own devices. | |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:11 - Mar 3 with 3035 views | giant_stow |
I don't understand how all of this is getting past the old school, freedom-loving, Russia-hating conservatives over in America. How comes they're alright with the naked surrender to Russian interests? |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:22 - Mar 3 with 2969 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:11 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
I don't understand how all of this is getting past the old school, freedom-loving, Russia-hating conservatives over in America. How comes they're alright with the naked surrender to Russian interests? |
i think it's as basic as: the democrat establishment supported ukraine, therefore russia must be good. the democrats tried to smear trump by linking him to russia, therefore both trump and russia are the victims in this story. maga is different from old school conservatives - essentially maga makes most sense as an indiscriminate wrecking ball against everything the democrats supported. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:23 - Mar 3 with 2965 views | bluejacko |
They really need to be cut from the 5 eyes agreement very quickly! If they are that pally to pootin who knows what they are feeding him. |  | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:23 - Mar 3 with 2967 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:04 - Mar 3 by unstableblue |
I think perhaps the Typhoon jet which was struggling will get a boost from this change in global power structures, as UK and Europe will be reluctant to rely on US military supply going forward and their fighter programmes. Which as you say will be a boost for BAE and British jobs.
But its a major stretch for me personally to say that is what is driving Europe and the UK's stance on Ukraine. That old military/industrial complex conspiracy theme.
Are you thinking we're doing war for war's sake? and Russia should be left to her own devices. |
Weapon sales aren’t driving it, but you can bet there’ll be a lot of people profiteering off the back of the conflict. It’s a very good time to be investing in arms. These companies will be getting many more £billions of public money thrown their way. |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:27 - Mar 3 with 2930 views | unstableblue |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:11 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
I don't understand how all of this is getting past the old school, freedom-loving, Russia-hating conservatives over in America. How comes they're alright with the naked surrender to Russian interests? |
I actually don't think that large swathes of the Republican / Conservation right in the USA are happy with this direction - including some Fox news commentators. And its certainly firing up the centre and left.
I think the Trump/MAGA leadership have been caught by the reaction. But Musk and the MAGA commentators are in overdrive to win these right-wing dissenters into this pro-Putin stance. Even people like Lindsey Graham are towing the line. Its quite cult like in the senior teams now. Rubio has had a complete about turn.
But coming back to my original note - if the leadership are indeed going to start to defund anti-Russia cyber efforts, which are a clear and obvious threat, who is driving this direction? why? and with this further drive MAGA into a pro=Putin movement? | |
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| Three big voices wading in today on 14:36 - Mar 3 with 2874 views | unstableblue |
From (evil mainstream media) BBC:
________________________________________________________
Former Polish President and Nobel Peace prize winner (and 39 other polish political prisoners) in open letter to Trump:
"We watched the coverage of your conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky with horror and distaste,"
"We consider your expectations regarding showing respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States to Ukraine in its fight with Russia to be offensive,"
"Gratitude is due to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed blood in defence of the values of the free world."
"We do not understand how the leader of a country that is the symbol of the free world can fail to see this,"
___________________________________________________________
The United Nations Human Rights Commissioner says he is "deeply worried" by the "fundamental shift" in the US' direction "both domestically and internationally".
Without mentioning Trump, Volker Türk adds that "disinformation" and "intimidation" against journalists and public officials risk "undermining the work of institutions."
His comments come a few weeks after the US stunned its allies by reopening peace talks with Russia - with no one else invited to the table.
"Any discussions about ending the war must include Ukrainians and fully respect their human rights," Türk says, according to Reuters news agency.
The news agency adds that Türk says he is "stunned" by the casting aside of international institutions, calling budget cuts "a massive setback for human rights protection".
____________________________________________________________
Germany's likely next chancellor Friedrich Merz says Friday's exchange between US President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House was a "manufactured escalation".
"It was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelensky, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office," Merz tells a news conference in Hamburg, Reuters and AFP news agencies report.
Merz says Europe is now under pressure to act quickly: "We must now show that we are in a position to act independently in Europe." | |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:49 - Mar 3 with 2791 views | giant_stow |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:22 - Mar 3 by lowhouseblue |
i think it's as basic as: the democrat establishment supported ukraine, therefore russia must be good. the democrats tried to smear trump by linking him to russia, therefore both trump and russia are the victims in this story. maga is different from old school conservatives - essentially maga makes most sense as an indiscriminate wrecking ball against everything the democrats supported. |
Thats terrifying if true, but maybe it'll take a disaster to wake them up out of their extreme partisan lines. I think that little turd Vance even told off Zelenskyy for siding with 'the other side' in that meeting the other day innit, so maybe it really is that simple.
Feels like we're living in a fan fiction series of Homeland right now: he got in / what happened next... | |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:50 - Mar 3 with 2788 views | giant_stow |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:23 - Mar 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Weapon sales aren’t driving it, but you can bet there’ll be a lot of people profiteering off the back of the conflict. It’s a very good time to be investing in arms. These companies will be getting many more £billions of public money thrown their way. |
Just to say that I hope our govt has the gumption to drive a hard bargain and for this not to turn into another Covid free-for-all. I'd sooner they threatened to buy French than pay any price for British. | |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:54 - Mar 3 with 2766 views | Churchman |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:27 - Mar 3 by unstableblue |
I actually don't think that large swathes of the Republican / Conservation right in the USA are happy with this direction - including some Fox news commentators. And its certainly firing up the centre and left.
I think the Trump/MAGA leadership have been caught by the reaction. But Musk and the MAGA commentators are in overdrive to win these right-wing dissenters into this pro-Putin stance. Even people like Lindsey Graham are towing the line. Its quite cult like in the senior teams now. Rubio has had a complete about turn.
But coming back to my original note - if the leadership are indeed going to start to defund anti-Russia cyber efforts, which are a clear and obvious threat, who is driving this direction? why? and with this further drive MAGA into a pro=Putin movement? |
I suspect the vast majority are totally happy with it. Nose to the trough time. Who cares from where. Money and power so the senior dudes better be happy or they are toast. Anyway if you keep on spouting lies and propaganda and bury alternative views by media control and muzzling those dissenters you don’t convert or dispose of, you will get what you want.
If you take just one of the lies - the US is the only country to support Ukraine and has spent ‘north of $350bn’ doing it, repeating the lie means it’s now fact. Goebbels did it with the death count from the Dresden raid in WW2 (x10 the actual figure) and because of repetition even notable historians use his figures now. It works.
So a country is being smashed. So what. They deserved it, shouldn’t have started it, what’s in it for us? How can we come out ahead. So Federal workers lives are being made a misery and they’re being treated like Industrial Revolution workers who conformed or starved. So what, who cares? Lazy barstewards deserve what they get.
USAID? Why should my tax dollar go there? What’s in it for me? So they are without water and starving. So what. It’s their fault, should have done something about it. I’m busy.
This is 21c America. They voted this in with Trump. They knew what he was like, so it’s what they want. That includes ditching former unreliable grasping friends who did nothing for them (U.K. and Europe) and embracing the strong, clear minded who have their values - dear leader Putin.
It was easy for Rubio to do a 180 degree about face. The grubby little man doesn’t have a backbone.
Vladimir will turn up in a sharp suit for his Oval Office victory meeting, you can be assured of than. I just hope that when Vance and Trump start reprising a Monica on him they switch the cameras off. [Post edited 3 Mar 15:09]
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 15:06 - Mar 3 with 2725 views | DJR |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:11 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
I don't understand how all of this is getting past the old school, freedom-loving, Russia-hating conservatives over in America. How comes they're alright with the naked surrender to Russian interests? |
Those were the neocons and I posted this the other day in relation of Vance.
The vice president’s argument with Zelenskyy on Friday illustrated the sharp shift in mainstream GOP politics away from an expansive view of protecting democracies abroad. An Iraq War veteran who is widely expected to run for president in 2028, the 40-year-old Vance leads a younger generation of the party that is skeptical of foreign wars and scornful of neoconservatives, following Trump’s lead. |  | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 15:12 - Mar 3 with 2693 views | itfcjoe |
The major concern is not that America wants to take a more isolationist view, there is a political will and argument for that way, and they can express it in different ways - but it's just that the most senior politicians in the USA are parrotting and spreading the Kremlin line on these matters.....that's very scary for the West.
When Trump said something along the lines off - 'Putin didn't respect Biden, and he didn't respect Obama.....but he respects me' then I can't imagine how hard they would have laughed at the Kremlin - because they know he actually believes that [Post edited 3 Mar 19:12]
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 15:41 - Mar 3 with 2595 views | soupytwist |
At least the BBC showed whose sided they're on last night when choosing something to go on BBC2 when it had to re-jig the schedule because the Man Utd-Fulham game went to extra time.
"In a change to the scheduled programme" they put on Antiques Roadshow from Salisbury, just to jog our memories about what Russia can get up to. |  | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 17:43 - Mar 3 with 2340 views | TractorWood |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:04 - Mar 3 by unstableblue |
I think perhaps the Typhoon jet which was struggling will get a boost from this change in global power structures, as UK and Europe will be reluctant to rely on US military supply going forward and their fighter programmes. Which as you say will be a boost for BAE and British jobs.
But its a major stretch for me personally to say that is what is driving Europe and the UK's stance on Ukraine. That old military/industrial complex conspiracy theme.
Are you thinking we're doing war for war's sake? and Russia should be left to her own devices. |
I think Europe has underspent on defence. Perhaps knowing the US will always be waiting in the wings to wrap knuckles as required. This feels like it is now gone and the game has changed. Hence massive boom in defence spending.
Europe needs to be more proactive and spend so it's a military force in it's own right now. China, Russia and emergent threats will come we need robust deterrents, clear boundaries on what is acceptable and consequences when they are breached.
Europe has taken too long and done too little to support Ukraine. The good news is that Trump's gormless brinksmanship and thinly veiled pro-Russian stances are galvanising the sane democracies. They are just big, slow moving democracies who always get lost in the detail. [Post edited 3 Mar 17:54]
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 18:37 - Mar 3 with 2167 views | Churchman |
An interesting and correct commentary from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/03/donald-trump-world-leaders
I note Trump is still using his social media platform to abuse Zelenski. A man whose country was hit with 1000 drones and 1000 bombs last week. A man who has more courage in his toenail than Trump and his henchmen have in their whole bodies.
He says ‘this guy doesn't want there to be peace as long as he has America's backing," Trump added.
"What are they thinking?" he also asked, appearing to criticise European leaders for saying they "cannot do the job without the US".
He could of course have said ‘Putin could stop the war he caused by invading a sovereign country in a second’. It’s really simple and how it really is. But that would not help Americas best friend Russia. Trumps narrative is Ukraine started it Zelenski wants to continue. They are to blame.
The blaming of victims with language like ‘America will not put up with it for much longer’ is very reminiscent of Hitler abusing the likes of Czechoslovakia and Poland pre WW2 when all they’d done wrong is exist.
I think a lot will happen this week. There’s only so long that Starmer can make positive noises about the world’s newest, most illustrious rogue nation. The break is going to come quickly and very very painfully.
On a positive note, it’s good to see the HoC united on this. | | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 18:48 - Mar 3 with 2135 views | TractorWood |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 18:37 - Mar 3 by Churchman |
An interesting and correct commentary from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/03/donald-trump-world-leaders
I note Trump is still using his social media platform to abuse Zelenski. A man whose country was hit with 1000 drones and 1000 bombs last week. A man who has more courage in his toenail than Trump and his henchmen have in their whole bodies.
He says ‘this guy doesn't want there to be peace as long as he has America's backing," Trump added.
"What are they thinking?" he also asked, appearing to criticise European leaders for saying they "cannot do the job without the US".
He could of course have said ‘Putin could stop the war he caused by invading a sovereign country in a second’. It’s really simple and how it really is. But that would not help Americas best friend Russia. Trumps narrative is Ukraine started it Zelenski wants to continue. They are to blame.
The blaming of victims with language like ‘America will not put up with it for much longer’ is very reminiscent of Hitler abusing the likes of Czechoslovakia and Poland pre WW2 when all they’d done wrong is exist.
I think a lot will happen this week. There’s only so long that Starmer can make positive noises about the world’s newest, most illustrious rogue nation. The break is going to come quickly and very very painfully.
On a positive note, it’s good to see the HoC united on this. |
World leaders are behind Ukraine almost exclusively. Trump looks ridiculous but he is also remarkably powerful.
Like always he is pushing his protectionist, anti-nato and unashamedly pro Russian waffle.
Interesting to see next moves. | |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 21:35 - Mar 3 with 1989 views | bluejacko |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 18:48 - Mar 3 by TractorWood |
World leaders are behind Ukraine almost exclusively. Trump looks ridiculous but he is also remarkably powerful.
Like always he is pushing his protectionist, anti-nato and unashamedly pro Russian waffle.
Interesting to see next moves. |
Looking at lifting sanctions apparently | | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 07:10 - Mar 4 with 1814 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 14:04 - Mar 3 by unstableblue |
I think perhaps the Typhoon jet which was struggling will get a boost from this change in global power structures, as UK and Europe will be reluctant to rely on US military supply going forward and their fighter programmes. Which as you say will be a boost for BAE and British jobs.
But its a major stretch for me personally to say that is what is driving Europe and the UK's stance on Ukraine. That old military/industrial complex conspiracy theme.
Are you thinking we're doing war for war's sake? and Russia should be left to her own devices. |
Forgive me for jumping in, but I don’t think that was the point he was making. European defence stocks are up widely (not just BAE) in the expectation that Europe now has an unreliable ‘ally’ in the US. Europe will now need to pull its weight with an expansionist dictator to the East and Trump seemingly in his pocket.
Trump and his ‘deal’ aren’t good for business though with large index drops this week in most major markets. Trump only benefits Trump (and his cronies), most of the wealthy and corporations in the US will see their wealth decrease with falling US equities- given his tariffs and insane foreign policy. | | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 07:35 - Mar 4 with 1747 views | Churchman |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 18:48 - Mar 3 by TractorWood |
World leaders are behind Ukraine almost exclusively. Trump looks ridiculous but he is also remarkably powerful.
Like always he is pushing his protectionist, anti-nato and unashamedly pro Russian waffle.
Interesting to see next moves. |
Well,, Trump’s move came quickly didn’t it. Pull the rug on Ukraine. Sell them out. They deserve it. Leave ‘em high and dry. According to musk Zelenski is evil. To Trump, Ukraine started it, they don’t want peace etc. they aid they are receiving was what had previously been approved by Congress. Looks like Trump can override that - experts on US constitution: thoughts on this?
Regardless US talk about peace but they really mean extortion. Theft. Any pressure on Russia? Of course not. They’re the innocent ones in this and fondest allies now. World has gone insane.
A sad day. Starmer is going to have to move quickly and so are Europe. Away from the US. I can’t believe this is happening. | | | |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 08:22 - Mar 4 with 1666 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
Trump is aligning more with Putin than he is with the "West". But we have more than 10,000 US military personnel stationed at numerous military bases across the UK, with nuclear weapons installed.
How long can we leave it, and how far does this have to deepen, before we expel the US military from the UK? This is OUR country. Why should we allow a country to have nuclear weapons installed here when the man who has his finger on the button is no longer an ally? |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 08:29 - Mar 4 with 1639 views | MJallday |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 13:49 - Mar 3 by TractorWood |
BAE shares up 15%. Tells all you need to know. |
Personally I’m quite happy about this :) |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 08:46 - Mar 4 with 1557 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 08:22 - Mar 4 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Trump is aligning more with Putin than he is with the "West". But we have more than 10,000 US military personnel stationed at numerous military bases across the UK, with nuclear weapons installed.
How long can we leave it, and how far does this have to deepen, before we expel the US military from the UK? This is OUR country. Why should we allow a country to have nuclear weapons installed here when the man who has his finger on the button is no longer an ally? |
There haven’t been nuclear weapons at RAF Lakenheath since 2008 although the F35As are nuclear capable, there is talk that situation will change.
There are US nuclear bombs stocked elsewhere in Europe. |  |
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| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 08:52 - Mar 4 with 1537 views | DJR |
| The Trump/MAGA alignment/appeasement to the Kremlin is becoming significant on 07:35 - Mar 4 by Churchman |
Well,, Trump’s move came quickly didn’t it. Pull the rug on Ukraine. Sell them out. They deserve it. Leave ‘em high and dry. According to musk Zelenski is evil. To Trump, Ukraine started it, they don’t want peace etc. they aid they are receiving was what had previously been approved by Congress. Looks like Trump can override that - experts on US constitution: thoughts on this?
Regardless US talk about peace but they really mean extortion. Theft. Any pressure on Russia? Of course not. They’re the innocent ones in this and fondest allies now. World has gone insane.
A sad day. Starmer is going to have to move quickly and so are Europe. Away from the US. I can’t believe this is happening. |
This from Wikipedia suggests to me that while Congress may have authorised the funds, it is up to the President to decide how (or if) those funds are deployed.
The president is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces as well as all federalized United States Militia and may exercise supreme operational command and control over them. The president has, in this capacity, plenary power to launch, direct and supervise military operations, order or authorize the deployment of troops, unilaterally launch nuclear weapons, and form military policy with the Department of Defense and Homeland Security. However, the constitutional ability to declare war is vested only in Congress. [Post edited 4 Mar 8:52]
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