| Trump’s tariffs 09:48 - Apr 3 with 9148 views | MattinLondon |
I concede that this will probably just be me being naive about this.
But, if the USA are sticking tariffs on a lot of countries - what’s stopping the EU, UK, China etc all simply coming together to create some sort of agreement (albeit a loose one) where each agree to lower tariffs on each others goods to try and offset the extra costs exporting to the USA? But keeping tariffs on American imports high?
I understand that things takes time to achieve but is this possible? |  | | |  |
| Trump’s tariffs on 09:54 - Apr 3 with 4182 views | Guthrum |
Would potentially lead to markets being flooded with cheap goods from overseas, undercutting their own producers.
The whole thing was a delicate balance and Trump has just vigorously rocked the boat. |  |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 09:59 - Apr 3 with 4159 views | Oldsmoker |
There are no extra costs for a country exporting to the US.
The Importer pays the tax.
The Importer is a company based in the US.
The Importer will pass the tariff onto whoever buys the goods.
So to sumarise, Trumps tariffs are a sales tax on US Consumers.
These Tariffs won't cost any country anything.
The downside is it will make their products more expensive in the US so maybe they don't sell so much. |  |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:00 - Apr 3 with 4150 views | MattinLondon |
| Trump’s tariffs on 09:54 - Apr 3 by Guthrum |
Would potentially lead to markets being flooded with cheap goods from overseas, undercutting their own producers.
The whole thing was a delicate balance and Trump has just vigorously rocked the boat. |
Thanks - was pretty sure that I was being too simplistic. | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:01 - Apr 3 with 4134 views | MattinLondon |
| Trump’s tariffs on 09:59 - Apr 3 by Oldsmoker |
There are no extra costs for a country exporting to the US.
The Importer pays the tax.
The Importer is a company based in the US.
The Importer will pass the tariff onto whoever buys the goods.
So to sumarise, Trumps tariffs are a sales tax on US Consumers.
These Tariffs won't cost any country anything.
The downside is it will make their products more expensive in the US so maybe they don't sell so much. |
Thanks - I was fully aware of that but explained myself much like a post-match Ian Holloway interview. | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:03 - Apr 3 with 4117 views | Oldsmoker |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:01 - Apr 3 by MattinLondon |
Thanks - I was fully aware of that but explained myself much like a post-match Ian Holloway interview. |
So you got her in the taxi but failed to get past her front door.
© Ian Holloway | |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:16 - Apr 3 with 4052 views | BloomBlue |
Tariffs are complex. Trumps tariffs are based on the simplistic view that if you use them, then companies will move their production to the US to avoid the tariffs.
But some of the EU tariffs on China are based on level playing fields. Employees in the EU have protected rights which cost companies money, whereas employees in China don't have any. This means Chinese goods are cheaper, because company overheads are cheaper, hence not a level playing field, and thus EU added tariffs.
Trumps tariffs will either be an amazing gamble, if they work, or one of the biggest c*ckups in politics - we will know in 4 years |  | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:23 - Apr 3 with 4004 views | NthQldITFC |
| Trump’s tariffs on 09:59 - Apr 3 by Oldsmoker |
There are no extra costs for a country exporting to the US.
The Importer pays the tax.
The Importer is a company based in the US.
The Importer will pass the tariff onto whoever buys the goods.
So to sumarise, Trumps tariffs are a sales tax on US Consumers.
These Tariffs won't cost any country anything.
The downside is it will make their products more expensive in the US so maybe they don't sell so much. |
... => so maybe the producer/exporter has to drop their prices a little to compensate in some cases. |  |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:35 - Apr 3 with 3954 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:23 - Apr 3 by NthQldITFC |
... => so maybe the producer/exporter has to drop their prices a little to compensate in some cases. |
Producers would individually need to find a balance between the hit to turnover from dropping prices and the reduction in exports by not doing so. Also whether the reduction in turnover by doing either is sustainable.
With some luxury goods like Scotch or Rolls Royces, the higher price may actually increase the cachet, so can be bourne. With basic raw materials or parts, on the other hand, manufacturers are going to seek out the cheapest supplier. | |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:42 - Apr 3 with 3880 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:00 - Apr 3 by MattinLondon |
Thanks - was pretty sure that I was being too simplistic. |
It's also a matter of whether businesses can afford to ignore a very wealthy market* with 340m consumers**.
* 26% of the world's GDP in absolute terms.
** 4.25% of the world population. | |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:42 - Apr 3 with 3881 views | iamatractorboy |
Companies based in the US that manufacture things for export, but use imported components, are surely going to be completely screwed. Actually, any US company that uses imported components, raw materials etc. I guess the idea is that they start to use stuff from within the US, but what if it's not available, what do they do then? It's not just the end user, Joe Public, that will be paying more. |  | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:49 - Apr 3 with 3848 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:42 - Apr 3 by iamatractorboy |
Companies based in the US that manufacture things for export, but use imported components, are surely going to be completely screwed. Actually, any US company that uses imported components, raw materials etc. I guess the idea is that they start to use stuff from within the US, but what if it's not available, what do they do then? It's not just the end user, Joe Public, that will be paying more. |
That's the problem with Trump's approach. No time has been given to set up these sub-manufacturing and supply chains within the USA. Those things take months or years (and a lot of investment) to come on line. It's not like there's masses of redundant (but modernised and maintained) capacity waiting to be opened up. Self-sufficiency cannot be turned on like a switch. Manufacturers are suddenly cut off from the sources they themselves used to produce goods cheaply.
Edit: But, as always with Trump, it's more about the optics than practicalities. [Post edited 3 Apr 10:50]
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:51 - Apr 3 with 3829 views | Blueschev |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:42 - Apr 3 by iamatractorboy |
Companies based in the US that manufacture things for export, but use imported components, are surely going to be completely screwed. Actually, any US company that uses imported components, raw materials etc. I guess the idea is that they start to use stuff from within the US, but what if it's not available, what do they do then? It's not just the end user, Joe Public, that will be paying more. |
Also it will take years to set up the infrastructure that would enable the US to produce everything themselves. In the meantime everything will get more expensive for the US consumer. The high price of consumer goods paid a large part in Trumps election victory, I can't see them rising ever higher will sit well with the American public. |  | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:57 - Apr 3 with 3769 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:35 - Apr 3 by Guthrum |
Producers would individually need to find a balance between the hit to turnover from dropping prices and the reduction in exports by not doing so. Also whether the reduction in turnover by doing either is sustainable.
With some luxury goods like Scotch or Rolls Royces, the higher price may actually increase the cachet, so can be bourne. With basic raw materials or parts, on the other hand, manufacturers are going to seek out the cheapest supplier. |
I think Trump has done this purely to act as a lever for future negotiations with each and every country / trading block re anything and everything.
The world has two ways to go here and the only one certain thing is that you cannot do nothing.
I would look at two things........
Re ignite the underestimated potential force of the commonwealth and persuade everyone within it to reciprocate the tariffs. At the same time persuade Europe and China to do likewise
Look at the possibility of the world to stop trading in dollars when importing goods. |  |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 10:59 - Apr 3 with 3745 views | Churchman |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:16 - Apr 3 by BloomBlue |
Tariffs are complex. Trumps tariffs are based on the simplistic view that if you use them, then companies will move their production to the US to avoid the tariffs.
But some of the EU tariffs on China are based on level playing fields. Employees in the EU have protected rights which cost companies money, whereas employees in China don't have any. This means Chinese goods are cheaper, because company overheads are cheaper, hence not a level playing field, and thus EU added tariffs.
Trumps tariffs will either be an amazing gamble, if they work, or one of the biggest c*ckups in politics - we will know in 4 years |
You are right, tariffs are extremely complex, as is how production, trade and markets work. They won’t work for America. In fact they’ll be counter productive. Isolationism always is.
Add in their abandonment of ‘soft power’, betraying allies overnight, sidling up to dictators and working on the basis that it can bully when it chooses as it did in 1945 as the only unbroken economy, I would say Trump is sowing seeds of disaster for the US to the extent he could even trigger its break up.
In the short term, revenues for tax cuts for himself and buddies will come rolling in and that’ll be the limit of his ‘success’. The people will bear the cost of inflation and reduced choice. Disillusionment will follow. The other countries and trade blocks will realign and their dependency on US will decrease.
It needs better politicians than the rabble we’ve had in my lifetime but perversely I think the isolation of America presents opportunity. We have to untie ourselves militarily, rearm to keep that animal Putin off and move away economically from US over time, as does the rest of Europe. That’s the priority for me. |  | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:03 - Apr 3 with 3723 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:57 - Apr 3 by Lord_Lucan |
I think Trump has done this purely to act as a lever for future negotiations with each and every country / trading block re anything and everything.
The world has two ways to go here and the only one certain thing is that you cannot do nothing.
I would look at two things........
Re ignite the underestimated potential force of the commonwealth and persuade everyone within it to reciprocate the tariffs. At the same time persuade Europe and China to do likewise
Look at the possibility of the world to stop trading in dollars when importing goods. |
I think a lot of this is also about willy-waving and optics. I'm not sure the practicalities and consequences have been thought through by anybody who really knows what they're doing.
Whatever the outcome and/or backing down, it's going to take a long time for exporters to regain confidence in the USA as a trading partner.
And, yes, it will damage the dollar's credibility (it's already taking a hammering this morning). | |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 11:09 - Apr 3 with 3693 views | Blueschev |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:03 - Apr 3 by Guthrum |
I think a lot of this is also about willy-waving and optics. I'm not sure the practicalities and consequences have been thought through by anybody who really knows what they're doing.
Whatever the outcome and/or backing down, it's going to take a long time for exporters to regain confidence in the USA as a trading partner.
And, yes, it will damage the dollar's credibility (it's already taking a hammering this morning). |
I think the worrying thing is that nobody within the administration seems to have any idea what they're talking about. On the one hand they say they are imposing tariffs so that manufacturers will move to the US, yet they've also boasted that the funds raised by import tariffs will enable large scale tax cuts. Each aim contradicts the other, it's a total shambles. | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:14 - Apr 3 with 3658 views | Radlett_blue |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:59 - Apr 3 by Churchman |
You are right, tariffs are extremely complex, as is how production, trade and markets work. They won’t work for America. In fact they’ll be counter productive. Isolationism always is.
Add in their abandonment of ‘soft power’, betraying allies overnight, sidling up to dictators and working on the basis that it can bully when it chooses as it did in 1945 as the only unbroken economy, I would say Trump is sowing seeds of disaster for the US to the extent he could even trigger its break up.
In the short term, revenues for tax cuts for himself and buddies will come rolling in and that’ll be the limit of his ‘success’. The people will bear the cost of inflation and reduced choice. Disillusionment will follow. The other countries and trade blocks will realign and their dependency on US will decrease.
It needs better politicians than the rabble we’ve had in my lifetime but perversely I think the isolation of America presents opportunity. We have to untie ourselves militarily, rearm to keep that animal Putin off and move away economically from US over time, as does the rest of Europe. That’s the priority for me. |
The USA faces the problem that, in some years China will be economically larger & potentially the new world leader. Economically, the USA has been helped by being world leader in important growing industries, principally technology & also media. However, traditional industries such as steel, auto making, textiles etc have struggled for years as they're more about being a lower cost producer. Many of the Trump supporters come from states dependent on traditional industries & as they haven't been doing very well, naturally their people turn to Trump as tariffs sound great to them, although ultimately it's a loss for everyone as retaliation is an obvious strategy. |  |
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| Trump’s tariffs on 11:15 - Apr 3 with 3653 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Europe, and particularly Germany would never agree to free trade with China - it will hit our own industrial base. There was talk of the EU actually imposing stricter tariffs on China. A free trade deal would only benefit China, not Europe.
Probably a worse impact than the tariffs themselves is greenback has already weakened (and probably continue to do so) which will make imports even more expensive for the US (and further hit EU exports. It will probably also dent the earnings of the largest UK and European countries who trade mainly in USD (as they’ll be worth less in GBP/EUR. | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:23 - Apr 3 with 3619 views | ElderGrizzly |
He’s started a trade war with penguins.
All sounds a bit fishy to me…
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| Trump’s tariffs on 11:29 - Apr 3 with 3586 views | giant_stow |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:14 - Apr 3 by Radlett_blue |
The USA faces the problem that, in some years China will be economically larger & potentially the new world leader. Economically, the USA has been helped by being world leader in important growing industries, principally technology & also media. However, traditional industries such as steel, auto making, textiles etc have struggled for years as they're more about being a lower cost producer. Many of the Trump supporters come from states dependent on traditional industries & as they haven't been doing very well, naturally their people turn to Trump as tariffs sound great to them, although ultimately it's a loss for everyone as retaliation is an obvious strategy. |
I wonder whether this is an opportunity for China to take over leadership, with the US turning in on itself.
The question I was wondering about is will there be repercussions for the UK for having a lower tariff rate than the EU say? What about Ireland / Northern Ireland for example...
Edit: could be an ignorant question, but I'll be honest and leave it there! [Post edited 3 Apr 11:30]
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| Trump’s tariffs on 11:30 - Apr 3 with 3585 views | rkc123 |
| Trump’s tariffs on 10:16 - Apr 3 by BloomBlue |
Tariffs are complex. Trumps tariffs are based on the simplistic view that if you use them, then companies will move their production to the US to avoid the tariffs.
But some of the EU tariffs on China are based on level playing fields. Employees in the EU have protected rights which cost companies money, whereas employees in China don't have any. This means Chinese goods are cheaper, because company overheads are cheaper, hence not a level playing field, and thus EU added tariffs.
Trumps tariffs will either be an amazing gamble, if they work, or one of the biggest c*ckups in politics - we will know in 4 years |
The thing I don't understand is didn't a lot of manufacturing move out of the US (and other western countries) due to the significantly cheaper labour elsewhere? Given that this hasn't changed, even if some manufacturing did return to the US wouldn't the increased labour costs still mean that products are going to be more expensive? | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:42 - Apr 3 with 3551 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:30 - Apr 3 by rkc123 |
The thing I don't understand is didn't a lot of manufacturing move out of the US (and other western countries) due to the significantly cheaper labour elsewhere? Given that this hasn't changed, even if some manufacturing did return to the US wouldn't the increased labour costs still mean that products are going to be more expensive? |
Yes, they will be more expensive than before but potentially cheaper than buying the new highly-tariffed products.
Of course, this is a man who is a serial bankruptee, convicted fraudster and managed to bankrupt his own casino. | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:50 - Apr 3 with 3504 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:30 - Apr 3 by rkc123 |
The thing I don't understand is didn't a lot of manufacturing move out of the US (and other western countries) due to the significantly cheaper labour elsewhere? Given that this hasn't changed, even if some manufacturing did return to the US wouldn't the increased labour costs still mean that products are going to be more expensive? |
Yes but even if (cars for example) are built in the US, many components will be imported and now subject to tariffs offsetting any advantage. Not only that, said components will cost more as the Dollar weakens. Also worth noting many of the German brands already have manufacturing facilities in the US for vehicles sold there, so they wouldn’t even be subject to import tariffs. | | | |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:58 - Apr 3 with 3449 views | MattinLondon |
| Trump’s tariffs on 11:23 - Apr 3 by ElderGrizzly |
He’s started a trade war with penguins.
All sounds a bit fishy to me…
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‘A trade war with penguins’ sounds like a lyric to ‘I Am The Walrus’ if that song was written today. | | | |
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