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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. 17:30 - Apr 26 with 964 viewsbsw72

Discuss.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:34 - Apr 26 with 941 viewsNthsuffolkblue

No. Refereeing has always involved mistakes and still does.

Unfortunately, it has added nothing to the game. The inconsistency in VAR and its inability to make decisions that are nearly universally agreed on by professionals means it is simply wasting time and not improving the outcome of decisions.

VAR came in because of TV pundits' constant analysing of every decision. That hasn't changed.

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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:35 - Apr 26 with 929 viewsredrickstuhaart

I think so. Too easy to delegate the tough decisions, and always second guessing themselves and wanting to avoid being shown to be wrong. All impacts how people deal with the pressure.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:35 - Apr 26 with 926 viewsTrequartista

No. It's made it harder to referee.

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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:35 - Apr 26 with 929 viewsSuffolkPunchFC

VARing works well in other sports - Association Football needs to learn from these...
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:40 - Apr 26 with 887 viewsSouthfieldsBlue

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:35 - Apr 26 by SuffolkPunchFC

VARing works well in other sports - Association Football needs to learn from these...


Weirdly they tried to model it on cricket, which is completely the wrong sport to use. Umpires call is used because there is fundamental uncertainty in hawkeye, trying to apply that with "clear and obvious" doesn't work as you are just adding another degree oglf subjectivity. Should be like rugby, where the TMO is re refereeing the game, but can only suggest to the ref to bring play back 30 seconds after the offence has occurred, or when the ref actively asks for intervention, but even then the ref has to give their initial call.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:50 - Apr 26 with 848 viewsSuffolkPunchFC

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:40 - Apr 26 by SouthfieldsBlue

Weirdly they tried to model it on cricket, which is completely the wrong sport to use. Umpires call is used because there is fundamental uncertainty in hawkeye, trying to apply that with "clear and obvious" doesn't work as you are just adding another degree oglf subjectivity. Should be like rugby, where the TMO is re refereeing the game, but can only suggest to the ref to bring play back 30 seconds after the offence has occurred, or when the ref actively asks for intervention, but even then the ref has to give their initial call.


I agree that Rugby would be the obvious model.

However, don't forget that in cricket DRS is player review based, which maybe could also work. Leave decisions on-field unless challenged by the team captain (limited to 2 failed reviews). Automated offside could still remain as a separate mechanism.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:53 - Apr 26 with 815 viewsDublinBlue84

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:50 - Apr 26 by SuffolkPunchFC

I agree that Rugby would be the obvious model.

However, don't forget that in cricket DRS is player review based, which maybe could also work. Leave decisions on-field unless challenged by the team captain (limited to 2 failed reviews). Automated offside could still remain as a separate mechanism.


That could easily be abused. In cricket there is a natural stop in play after each ball.

In Football there could be playacting or diving of tactically timed challenges to interrupt an opponents attack and you can't just restrict it when the ball is out of play as that can be abused as well and balls may not go out of play for minutes after the incident.

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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:56 - Apr 26 with 807 viewsmelbs_itfc

I don’t think the introduction of VAR is the problem as they have made many correct calls. However, what I strongly disagree with is when VAR re-referees and intervene when it is clearly not a ‘clear and obvious error and therefore mostly subjective decsion.

The other problem that I see in the EPL is when the on field referee is sent to the screen it is almost certain they will go invariably with the VAR and it does appear that they feel pressurised to go with the VAR recommendation. whilst in overseas games that does not seem to be the case anywhere like as often and seem more comfortable with sticking with their original devision when the video footage is not conclusive to the contrary.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:59 - Apr 26 with 787 viewsSuffolkPunchFC

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:53 - Apr 26 by DublinBlue84

That could easily be abused. In cricket there is a natural stop in play after each ball.

In Football there could be playacting or diving of tactically timed challenges to interrupt an opponents attack and you can't just restrict it when the ball is out of play as that can be abused as well and balls may not go out of play for minutes after the incident.


In practice that's unlikely to happen if you have limited appeals. Would any sensible captain request 2 trivial reviews that are obvious to fail, to then have no appeals available when you absolutely need them?
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 18:02 - Apr 26 with 751 viewsDublinBlue84

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:59 - Apr 26 by SuffolkPunchFC

In practice that's unlikely to happen if you have limited appeals. Would any sensible captain request 2 trivial reviews that are obvious to fail, to then have no appeals available when you absolutely need them?


Depends, if you have reviews left in a close game and your opponent makes an attack with a high likelihood of scoring, what's to stop you using a challenge to disrupt it?

Bearing in mind the ====housery that goes on in the league, would you really be surprised?

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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 18:04 - Apr 26 with 753 viewsSuffolkPunchFC

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:56 - Apr 26 by melbs_itfc

I don’t think the introduction of VAR is the problem as they have made many correct calls. However, what I strongly disagree with is when VAR re-referees and intervene when it is clearly not a ‘clear and obvious error and therefore mostly subjective decsion.

The other problem that I see in the EPL is when the on field referee is sent to the screen it is almost certain they will go invariably with the VAR and it does appear that they feel pressurised to go with the VAR recommendation. whilst in overseas games that does not seem to be the case anywhere like as often and seem more comfortable with sticking with their original devision when the video footage is not conclusive to the contrary.


Totally agree with your comment regarding decisions always being reversed when 'called to the screen'. This shows a lack of strength from the on-field referee.

Again, this is where the rugby TMO is better (IMO) - the review becomes a (transparent) conversation between the on-field ref and the TMO, and often the decision is to stay with the original, on-field conclusion.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 18:10 - Apr 26 with 735 viewsVaughan8

We were all told it was going to be used for glaring errors I.e. lampards goal v Germany, Henry's hand ball v Ireland.

However, now they've got it, they seem to go into minute detail for offsides etc.

EdIt: however the users of it seem to be rubbish.

Even without our decisions this season, I still thi k it favours the big teams and some are quite baffling.

My conclusion is it's just another way to favour the top teams (Arsenal might disagree).

Anyone remember Rodris handball vs Everton one season, just to name one that pops into my head.
[Post edited 26 Apr 18:11]
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 18:21 - Apr 26 with 672 viewsellaandred

No
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 18:21 - Apr 26 with 674 viewsbsw72

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:40 - Apr 26 by SouthfieldsBlue

Weirdly they tried to model it on cricket, which is completely the wrong sport to use. Umpires call is used because there is fundamental uncertainty in hawkeye, trying to apply that with "clear and obvious" doesn't work as you are just adding another degree oglf subjectivity. Should be like rugby, where the TMO is re refereeing the game, but can only suggest to the ref to bring play back 30 seconds after the offence has occurred, or when the ref actively asks for intervention, but even then the ref has to give their initial call.


As I understand they studied and took elements from cricket, rugby and tennis, it was not based on cricket. The aim was “minimum interference, maximum benefit.”

Think they’ve nailed it
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 19:56 - Apr 26 with 584 viewsGeoffSentence

More referred are needed now. The on pitch team and the VAR team. This means that sht refs are getting sucked up a division.

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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 22:08 - Apr 26 with 479 viewsstonojnr

with the EPL/FA implementation of it absolutely imo (other leagues in Europe and UEFA games etc it seems to work better for some reason and doesnt seem to impact the quality)

but weve seen that when some Premier league refs end up officiating games without VAR, they look a bit lost and dont know what to do anymore, because theyve come to use VAR as a crutch to their decision making and arent able to take make the big calls themselves.

as they know if they make a big mistake, VAR will step in and make them look stupid, so theyre less likely to make those calls if they arent sure,as equally they know if they dont make a decision, VAR can step in and solve the doubt part for them and they can blame VAR for it if fans dont like it.

so like last week before the Davis red card, there was a foul that everyone was waiting for the ref to make a decision on, but the ref wasnt sure and was almost certainly waiting for VAR to intervene if it needed to, when Davis made his foul. Which is why Howard Webb who didnt ref under VAR said the match ref should have made a decision on the first foul immediately, then the Davis foul doesnt happen.

its a bit like in cricket how hawkeye changed umpiring decisions for a long while with umpires relying on the tv umpire instead of making their own decisions, though we seem to be going back the other way now with umpires taking more accountability for their decisions.

but if there was questionable catch, LBW decision, the umpires were always giving decisions based on the fact they knew the teams could immediately challenge it in a review, they werent giving their honest view of the decision, it was well I might be wrong but the technology is there to fix it if so. and if the tv review showed it was really in or out, well the right decision was made and there wasnt any comeback on them.

I think thats the attitude alot of premier league officials are using with var, their decisions are more hesitant because they know the technology is there and can make the decision for them, and theyre more likely to as in cricket they call it a soft signal decision, make a decision in the understanding if its wrong VAR will fix it.

instead of what I think they should be doing which is just pretending VAR isnt there at all and making the decisions regardless, if theyre wrong so be it, VAR might fix it, but you shouldnt be playing the percentages of well if I call that a penalty and its wrong I look stupid, so I wont, and then let VAR call it instead.
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Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 10:27 - Apr 27 with 252 viewsRadlett_blue

Introduction of VAR has lowered the quality of refereeing. on 17:34 - Apr 26 by Nthsuffolkblue

No. Refereeing has always involved mistakes and still does.

Unfortunately, it has added nothing to the game. The inconsistency in VAR and its inability to make decisions that are nearly universally agreed on by professionals means it is simply wasting time and not improving the outcome of decisions.

VAR came in because of TV pundits' constant analysing of every decision. That hasn't changed.


100%. All VAR has done is add an extra level of inconsistency.
Your point about the pundits is well made & Brian Clough (whose teams rarely disputed referees' decisions) made the point about action replays devaluing the status of referees (who will always make mistakes) years ago.

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