| Paul Merson on 15:42 - Apr 29 with 914 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Paul Merson on 14:12 - Apr 29 by sjg |
No I have been consistent throughout the season in what I think our mistakes are. We had a massive advantage in having a squad that had come up through the divisions, knew the way each other played, were direct and able to adapt. We got rid of that in bringing in too many starters that were no better than what we had, and made this mistake again in January.
When it became clear that these players were unable to play the way we wanted to, we continued to take the same approach at home despite having evidence of our success in a low block, hence why the only team that have ever gained fewer points than us this season at home are Southampton this season (we are 1 point behind that Derby team).
Look forward to not receiving an actual response again and you going after the way I've phrased something |
I always give actual responses, but I will also comment on wrong comments if they're wrong!
My response here is that I think you're, well, wrong. If we'd stuck with the same team that had come up through the divisions we'd have been slaughtered and be even lower than we are now. You're talking Ali Al Hamadi up front instead of Liam Delap, for starters! Harry Clarke when Axel was injured. Harness on as a super sub! Luongo in the middle all season!
You've been unfair and unrealistic on the club all season. It was simply too big a jump too soon. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Paul Merson on 15:52 - Apr 29 with 877 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 15:42 - Apr 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I always give actual responses, but I will also comment on wrong comments if they're wrong!
My response here is that I think you're, well, wrong. If we'd stuck with the same team that had come up through the divisions we'd have been slaughtered and be even lower than we are now. You're talking Ali Al Hamadi up front instead of Liam Delap, for starters! Harry Clarke when Axel was injured. Harness on as a super sub! Luongo in the middle all season!
You've been unfair and unrealistic on the club all season. It was simply too big a jump too soon. |
I didn't say we shouldn't have upgraded as I have already said - I'm saying we shouldn't have put 5 or 6 new starters in the side and expected it to gel instantly. Or expect it to gel with time and lose any momentum we had. So yet again, not addressed what I've said but picked apart an argument I haven't made. Idiot |  | | |
| Paul Merson on 16:06 - Apr 29 with 849 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Paul Merson on 15:52 - Apr 29 by sjg |
I didn't say we shouldn't have upgraded as I have already said - I'm saying we shouldn't have put 5 or 6 new starters in the side and expected it to gel instantly. Or expect it to gel with time and lose any momentum we had. So yet again, not addressed what I've said but picked apart an argument I haven't made. Idiot |
You're doing what everyone with a theory, and a bee in their bonnet, does though. Cherry pick and assume your approach would be better because it just would. The new players would be miraculously better because they'd be different players, that this hypothetical time round would work. Players gelling is all well and good but playing the bulk of a league one team with only 2 or 3 changes against the fittest and slickest players in the world is optimistic to say the least.
As always no one is saying we can't learn lessons, but this hypothetical nonsense helps nobody. It means absolutely nothing and is based purely on mythical better players better mix better tactics, but if it makes you feel better then knock yourself out, you know best and clearly have better ideas than those in charge of the club. |  | | |
| Paul Merso on 16:14 - Apr 29 with 817 views | bluefunk |
| Paul Merso on 15:02 - Apr 29 by sjg |
I didn't say don't try to strengthen the squad, I said don't replace a load of starters at once - again, Jackson was not a starter. Wouldn't have had a problem with 2 or 3 new starters and improvements in depth who had to work their way in, but to replace at the rate we did and just chuck the new lads in was silly.
Nice one on the low block, and I do think we were more direct in the Championship so yes that is what I'm referring to
Injuries are out of our control
We could have acquired experience had we bought a lower volume of players as I have suggested above [Post edited 29 Apr 15:19]
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We will just have to agree to disagree, but I am surprised that you’ve just written off one of the major factors in us not gelling (injuries for the avoidance of doubt). Although if you believe we were a direct side, you’re at odds with Paul Mersons view, which is where this thread started. |  | | |
| Paul Merson on 16:16 - Apr 29 with 812 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 16:06 - Apr 29 by Axeldalai_lama |
You're doing what everyone with a theory, and a bee in their bonnet, does though. Cherry pick and assume your approach would be better because it just would. The new players would be miraculously better because they'd be different players, that this hypothetical time round would work. Players gelling is all well and good but playing the bulk of a league one team with only 2 or 3 changes against the fittest and slickest players in the world is optimistic to say the least.
As always no one is saying we can't learn lessons, but this hypothetical nonsense helps nobody. It means absolutely nothing and is based purely on mythical better players better mix better tactics, but if it makes you feel better then knock yourself out, you know best and clearly have better ideas than those in charge of the club. |
'I didn't say don't try to strengthen the squad, I said don't replace a load of starters at once - again, Jackson was not a starter. Wouldn't have had a problem with 2 or 3 new starters and improvements in depth who had to work their way in, but to replace at the rate we did and just chuck the new lads in was silly.'
So not just 2 or 3 new players into the squad (in a team that had just finished 2nd in the Championship, so obviously not a League 1 team), other players there to fight for their place and work their way in, as I said. | | | |
| Paul Merso on 16:18 - Apr 29 with 801 views | sjg |
| Paul Merso on 16:14 - Apr 29 by bluefunk |
We will just have to agree to disagree, but I am surprised that you’ve just written off one of the major factors in us not gelling (injuries for the avoidance of doubt). Although if you believe we were a direct side, you’re at odds with Paul Mersons view, which is where this thread started. |
Were, not are, a direct side, and were far more effective at being one. And I don't think injuries had that much effect on us as a whole - although I think the right wing position was affected by Ogbene's injury a lot. I do wonder if that was the main barrier to us playing as directly as I'd have liked | | | |
| Paul Merson on 16:29 - Apr 29 with 774 views | Mullet |
| Paul Merson on 12:00 - Apr 29 by _clive_baker_ |
The last 6 promoted teams have all gone straight back down with a (likely) maximum of 26 points but yeah its their fault, nothing to do with the anti-competitive nature of the PL and wealth disparity at all. |
I've not enjoyed this season, simply because it feels like the world is against us and no one wants to be Leeds do they? |  |
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| Paul Merson on 16:29 - Apr 29 with 773 views | positivity |
| Paul Merson on 16:16 - Apr 29 by sjg |
'I didn't say don't try to strengthen the squad, I said don't replace a load of starters at once - again, Jackson was not a starter. Wouldn't have had a problem with 2 or 3 new starters and improvements in depth who had to work their way in, but to replace at the rate we did and just chuck the new lads in was silly.'
So not just 2 or 3 new players into the squad (in a team that had just finished 2nd in the Championship, so obviously not a League 1 team), other players there to fight for their place and work their way in, as I said. |
so, you'd bring in 3 starters and then how many players of a low enough status to accept being second fiddle to a bunch of league one alumni?
would this team of misfits be getting double the number of points that the current team have (which is what we'd need to stay up)? | |
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| Paul Merson on 16:29 - Apr 29 with 770 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Paul Merson on 15:42 - Apr 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I always give actual responses, but I will also comment on wrong comments if they're wrong!
My response here is that I think you're, well, wrong. If we'd stuck with the same team that had come up through the divisions we'd have been slaughtered and be even lower than we are now. You're talking Ali Al Hamadi up front instead of Liam Delap, for starters! Harry Clarke when Axel was injured. Harness on as a super sub! Luongo in the middle all season!
You've been unfair and unrealistic on the club all season. It was simply too big a jump too soon. |
"If we'd stuck with the same team that had come up through the divisions we'd have been slaughtered and be even lower than we are now"
100% agree - a typical line-up towards the end of last season was :
Does anyone really think this would have done better in the EPL this season. | | | |
| Paul Merso on 16:31 - Apr 29 with 760 views | bluefunk |
| Paul Merso on 16:18 - Apr 29 by sjg |
Were, not are, a direct side, and were far more effective at being one. And I don't think injuries had that much effect on us as a whole - although I think the right wing position was affected by Ogbene's injury a lot. I do wonder if that was the main barrier to us playing as directly as I'd have liked |
I’m sorry to go on about this, I just want to make sure I have understood your view - we were direct in the Championship, but not direct in the Premier League, have I understood correctly? | | | |
| Paul Merson on 16:32 - Apr 29 with 756 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 16:29 - Apr 29 by positivity |
so, you'd bring in 3 starters and then how many players of a low enough status to accept being second fiddle to a bunch of league one alumni?
would this team of misfits be getting double the number of points that the current team have (which is what we'd need to stay up)? |
I'd have brought in 2 or 3 players in positions we needed (CM, ST, RW) with the intention of starting them from game 1 and more with the intention of blooding them into the first team (similar to what we did with Omari last season) - not to play second fiddle. | | | |
| Paul Merso on 16:34 - Apr 29 with 736 views | sjg |
| Paul Merso on 16:31 - Apr 29 by bluefunk |
I’m sorry to go on about this, I just want to make sure I have understood your view - we were direct in the Championship, but not direct in the Premier League, have I understood correctly? |
Haha you're fine - yes, that is what I think. We scored so many goals from quick breaks last year - not to say that we only played hoofball but we were direct when it was an option. I would also consider passes like Wolfie to Hirst for Omari's goal at Boro as being 'direct', but it's not close to being your first thought when you think of direct play. | | | |
| Paul Merson on 16:39 - Apr 29 with 709 views | positivity |
| Paul Merson on 16:32 - Apr 29 by sjg |
I'd have brought in 2 or 3 players in positions we needed (CM, ST, RW) with the intention of starting them from game 1 and more with the intention of blooding them into the first team (similar to what we did with Omari last season) - not to play second fiddle. |
how many more?
omari only became a regular starter in the last quarter of the season, which you can sell to a young loanee, but isn't an enticing enough prospect to a prem-quality player
how many extra points do you imagine your approach would have brought in? | |
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| Paul Merson on 16:45 - Apr 29 with 685 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 16:39 - Apr 29 by positivity |
how many more?
omari only became a regular starter in the last quarter of the season, which you can sell to a young loanee, but isn't an enticing enough prospect to a prem-quality player
how many extra points do you imagine your approach would have brought in? |
I would say exactly 7 more players, no more no less. I have calculated your second question on a weighted average model and come to the conclusion that we would have gained an extra 14 points if I was in charge | | | |
| Paul Merson on 16:49 - Apr 29 with 672 views | positivity |
| Paul Merson on 16:45 - Apr 29 by sjg |
I would say exactly 7 more players, no more no less. I have calculated your second question on a weighted average model and come to the conclusion that we would have gained an extra 14 points if I was in charge |
so, your best case is that you'd finish 18th, fabulous!
forgive my insolence, but my hunch is that mckenna and co know a little more about football than yourself and may even do a slightly better job... | |
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| Paul Merson on 17:36 - Apr 29 with 617 views | bsw72 |
Ha ha ha - many years ago (~30) I used to work with his brother at a French Bank/Trading House in the city. It was just as Rioch left and Wenger came in to change how the club was run.
Before Wenger came in, the likes of Paul Merson, Tony Adams, Ray Parlour etc used to join us for a kickaround over in Limehouse, and some beers afterwards. That stopped very very quickly . . . |  | | |
| Paul Merson on 18:20 - Apr 29 with 556 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 16:49 - Apr 29 by positivity |
so, your best case is that you'd finish 18th, fabulous!
forgive my insolence, but my hunch is that mckenna and co know a little more about football than yourself and may even do a slightly better job... |
No because per my model we’d beat West Ham home and away so they’d go down | | | |
| Paul Merson on 20:04 - Apr 29 with 503 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Paul Merson on 16:16 - Apr 29 by sjg |
'I didn't say don't try to strengthen the squad, I said don't replace a load of starters at once - again, Jackson was not a starter. Wouldn't have had a problem with 2 or 3 new starters and improvements in depth who had to work their way in, but to replace at the rate we did and just chuck the new lads in was silly.'
So not just 2 or 3 new players into the squad (in a team that had just finished 2nd in the Championship, so obviously not a League 1 team), other players there to fight for their place and work their way in, as I said. |
One minute you say, and I quote, "We had a massive advantage in having a squad that had come up through the divisions, knew the way each other played"
then;
"in a team that had just finished 2nd in the Championship, so obviously not a League 1 team"
Oh sorry, I forgot, I'm not allowed to quote back what you actually said. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Paul Merson on 20:44 - Apr 29 with 475 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 20:04 - Apr 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
One minute you say, and I quote, "We had a massive advantage in having a squad that had come up through the divisions, knew the way each other played"
then;
"in a team that had just finished 2nd in the Championship, so obviously not a League 1 team"
Oh sorry, I forgot, I'm not allowed to quote back what you actually said. |
Hahahahaha. Back to semantics. Not a league 1 STANDARD team. Idiot | | | |
| Wenger ruined football. (n/t) on 20:46 - Apr 29 with 462 views | Bloots |
| Paul Merson on 17:36 - Apr 29 by bsw72 |
Ha ha ha - many years ago (~30) I used to work with his brother at a French Bank/Trading House in the city. It was just as Rioch left and Wenger came in to change how the club was run.
Before Wenger came in, the likes of Paul Merson, Tony Adams, Ray Parlour etc used to join us for a kickaround over in Limehouse, and some beers afterwards. That stopped very very quickly . . . |
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| "One of the best posters on TWTD and a really good bloke" - Anon (April 2025) |
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| Paul Merson on 08:11 - Apr 30 with 333 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Paul Merson on 20:44 - Apr 29 by sjg |
Hahahahaha. Back to semantics. Not a league 1 STANDARD team. Idiot |
I like how you added the word "standard" that wasn't there before AND put it in capitals. Brilliant! If only I'd been a mind reader instead of an idiot.
So you think a Championship STANDARD* team would've survived in the Premier League?!
No, no, stop sniggering at the back, let him speak!
*Also, what is STANDARD in these contexts anyway? Looking at the disparity in the Championship, I'm stumped as to what a STANDARD is. I'd say Norwich are below standard, Leeds and Burnley obviously way above. Maybe someone like Bristol City is the standard you're after?! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Paul Merson on 08:42 - Apr 30 with 279 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 08:11 - Apr 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I like how you added the word "standard" that wasn't there before AND put it in capitals. Brilliant! If only I'd been a mind reader instead of an idiot.
So you think a Championship STANDARD* team would've survived in the Premier League?!
No, no, stop sniggering at the back, let him speak!
*Also, what is STANDARD in these contexts anyway? Looking at the disparity in the Championship, I'm stumped as to what a STANDARD is. I'd say Norwich are below standard, Leeds and Burnley obviously way above. Maybe someone like Bristol City is the standard you're after?! |
Surely if a team gets promoted from the championship that proves they are better than the standard of that league. Idiot | | | |
| Paul Merson on 10:52 - Apr 30 with 221 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Paul Merson on 08:42 - Apr 30 by sjg |
Surely if a team gets promoted from the championship that proves they are better than the standard of that league. Idiot |
Right, so you want a team that's come up from League 1 but to be Premier League standard. Yeah, we all want that, mate. Easier said than done.
You're shifting the goalposts all over the place to try and justify your unrealistic narrative, and tying yourself up in knots. But keep calling me an idiot if it makes you feel better. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Paul Merson on 11:06 - Apr 30 with 194 views | sjg |
| Paul Merson on 10:52 - Apr 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Right, so you want a team that's come up from League 1 but to be Premier League standard. Yeah, we all want that, mate. Easier said than done.
You're shifting the goalposts all over the place to try and justify your unrealistic narrative, and tying yourself up in knots. But keep calling me an idiot if it makes you feel better. |
You are so good at arguing against points I haven't made. Idiot | | | |
| Paul Merson on 11:29 - Apr 30 with 146 views | jayessess |
Ironically, I think the it's the proposition that long ball and low block are a cheat code for survival that's actually naïve.
Neither Leicester nor post-Russell Martin Southampton are especially purist but they're both still losing every week.
I also don't think we've been especially purist in our approach this season. We aren't a high possession side (19th in the PL), we aren't a short passing side (19th for attempted short passes), we don't particularly press very high (17th for tackles in the final third, compared to 10th in the defensive third). We also haven't conceded playing out from the back since Muric was dropped, but that hasn't improved our form.
Everyone harped on about Burnley being silly purists last season, but Sheffield United and Luton were 20th and 19th for short passes, 9th and 3rd for long passes, 20th and 16th for possession. Both got relegated too. |  |
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