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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 16:06 - May 12 by itfcjoe
But we've been in positions where we have been electing Govts and voting for Brexit when the promise has been for lower immigration; and in that time it has gone up to the point where under the latter end of the last Tory Govt it was basically an open door policy numbers wise. [Net immigration 3 million over 4 years]
That immigration, post Brexit, is much stickier now than it ever was....and we here all about 'stop the boats' when that is about 40k people out of the 1 million that are coming each year.
We can say we need them to do the more menial jobs as a country, but the infrastructure isn't able to cope with that many extra people coming into the country each year
It's been dishonest policies from the Govts, and we are now in a position where no one has any trust in the powers that be, it wasn't that many years ago that David Cameron was stating net immigration was going to be in the tens of thousands a year and it ends up basically as a million - where is the mandate for that?
There was never a mandate for it any more than there was for Blair when he decided to throw the doors open to unlimited immigration in 1997. I don’t think Starmer is really interested in doing anything about it beyond worrying about Farage.
I am not sure I see much in the way of principles with Starmer beyond telling what he thinks people want to hear. So for example, a few meaningless numbers on illegal migrants returned. A drop in the ocean - it’d be more informative to say how many life jackets were returned at taxpayer expense to the French for the next wave.
Defence where there’s no intention to meet the emerging threats beyond providing work for the scrap dealers and another review to boot the can down the road. Building the economy where the only actions taken to date are to mallet it (e.g. NI on employers) and to take a bit of vengeance on people they don’t think like them from old people, to farmers to people that rent out properties.
I think Starmer might be a decent bloke. At least he’s not Johnson and the rest of that corrupt ghastly shower. He might mean well. I’m glad he’s not showy. But is he more than words, designer glasses and expenses claims? Ten months on, the jury is still out for me.
I could never vote for nutjob Farage and his cabal of weirds and failures. They’re just a nasty rabble of Trumpesque halfwits. But with their simple messaging a lot of people will unless Starmer lot start doing something more than hiding behind words.
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:34 - May 12 with 860 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:28 - May 12 by nrb1985
And even if I did work in A&E I'm sure you'd still rather listen to some Oxbridge type who works in a QUANGO than me :)
P.s. rich people that fund your A&E and contribute more in tax than you will in 10 lifetimes.
Boooo down with more tax revenue to fund our public services.
I tend to listen to people who have access to the relevant data and skills in analysing said data rather than people relying solely on their own experience and hearsay.
It seems like you're trying to justify your part in perpetuating a broken economic model that only works for the most wealthy. If that helps you sleep at night then good for you, but you can't expect the rest of us to give your views much credence on what you've presented here.
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:34 - May 12 by Herbivore
I tend to listen to people who have access to the relevant data and skills in analysing said data rather than people relying solely on their own experience and hearsay.
It seems like you're trying to justify your part in perpetuating a broken economic model that only works for the most wealthy. If that helps you sleep at night then good for you, but you can't expect the rest of us to give your views much credence on what you've presented here.
"I tend to listen to people who have access to the relevant data and skills in analysing said data rather than people relying solely on their own experience and hearsay"
You are delusional mate.
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:57 - May 12 with 826 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:41 - May 12 by nrb1985
"I tend to listen to people who have access to the relevant data and skills in analysing said data rather than people relying solely on their own experience and hearsay"
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:57 - May 12 by Herbivore
"We've had enough of experts".
Think you’ve missed the point here.
There isn’t the expertise in the government to make these decisions which is why Reeves went out to the advisory community after putting this plan into motion and asked if they thought it was a good idea or not. One might assume you’d do that first or not at all if you had any in house expertise.
Hey ho - I’m probably just giving anecdotal evidence just like this chap and every other person who is “expert” in the field…I assume he’s making it up too?!
We aren’t going to agree but think it shows staggering arrogance not to mention ignorance on your part to assume I like my peers are making things up.
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:17 - May 12 with 775 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:09 - May 12 by nrb1985
Think you’ve missed the point here.
There isn’t the expertise in the government to make these decisions which is why Reeves went out to the advisory community after putting this plan into motion and asked if they thought it was a good idea or not. One might assume you’d do that first or not at all if you had any in house expertise.
Hey ho - I’m probably just giving anecdotal evidence just like this chap and every other person who is “expert” in the field…I assume he’s making it up too?!
We aren’t going to agree but think it shows staggering arrogance not to mention ignorance on your part to assume I like my peers are making things up.
Frankly I'm staggered that you and other people whose job it is to further enrich the super rich are scaremongering about policies that might impact the wealth of the super rich. I'm aghast that people in a sector that relies on the custom of the super rich are making claims that are contrary to the findings of independent data analysts.
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 15:28 - May 12 by Blueschev
I agree with you to an extent, but why resort to the rhetoric of Farage in order to address people's concerns? That wins no votes for Labour, it merely lends credibility to Farage's dog whistles.
If we have become a "nation of strangers" it has feck all to do with immigration. What an absolute weapon to feed such a toxic agenda. Still at least he isn't an antisemite......or something!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 15:47 - May 12 by nrb1985
Afternoon Gary.
I've got to the point of not really caring about fairness or otherwise.
I care about making people's lives better and increasing the standard of living, health and public services.
Given we haven't grown the economy organically for two decades, then I'd like to actually grow the tax base by incentivising higher tax payers to come in not doing everything in our power to make them leave whether it be Brexit, Reform or this nonsense.
I assume from your childish and naïve snipe that you think shrinking the tax base in addition to a low growth economy will make things better not worse? if so, please show your workings.
[Post edited 12 May 16:00]
Fair enough, I mean one of these days it surely has to start trickling down. Once they have enough that is.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:11 - May 12 by nrb1985
By Private Banking sector you mean people at the coal face? As opposed to academics who mostly come from a public policy background.
You're sounding awfully like Michael Gove in as much as we've all had enough of experts...
Believe what you want but you are wrong.
You may be an expert when it comes to private banking, and PWC might be experts when it comes to tax advice, but surely the experts when it comes to tax-take forecasting are the Treasury and the OBR?
Interestingly, by your last sentence, you appear to be holding yourself out as more of an expert on tax-take forecasting than the OBR but surely you can't be absolutely certain you are right?
As it is, similar scare stories about non-doms leaving the country were doing the round even before Hunt announced changes to non-dom tax status last year.
According to Ian Duncan Smith the reason why it is so difficult to do anything about illegal immigration is because the courts have ultimate jurisdiction and use human rights laws to block any government plans to deport them. Labour obviously abandoned the Tories Rwanda scheme that literally never got off the ground. The consensus of opinion by people far more in the know than I am seems to think the idea of smashing the gangs is pie in the sky because as soon as you stop one another starts up. Until we stop making things too attractive for people to come here it will continue. As for Labour's idea of cutting legal immigration of people coming here to do the job of working in care homes and using those who are currently inactive, again it won't happen. We all know all this is to do with Farage's overwhelming success in local elections and like everything Labour comes up with is a fudge.
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:52 - May 12 with 703 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:22 - May 12 by BanksterDebtSlave
If we have become a "nation of strangers" it has feck all to do with immigration. What an absolute weapon to feed such a toxic agenda. Still at least he isn't an antisemite......or something!
people's concern is that immigration is now way too high. starmer appears to be trying to address that concern. how is that the 'rhetoric of farage', or 'farage's dog whistle', or a toxic agenda?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 19:02 - May 12 with 684 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 17:31 - May 12 by Churchman
There was never a mandate for it any more than there was for Blair when he decided to throw the doors open to unlimited immigration in 1997. I don’t think Starmer is really interested in doing anything about it beyond worrying about Farage.
I am not sure I see much in the way of principles with Starmer beyond telling what he thinks people want to hear. So for example, a few meaningless numbers on illegal migrants returned. A drop in the ocean - it’d be more informative to say how many life jackets were returned at taxpayer expense to the French for the next wave.
Defence where there’s no intention to meet the emerging threats beyond providing work for the scrap dealers and another review to boot the can down the road. Building the economy where the only actions taken to date are to mallet it (e.g. NI on employers) and to take a bit of vengeance on people they don’t think like them from old people, to farmers to people that rent out properties.
I think Starmer might be a decent bloke. At least he’s not Johnson and the rest of that corrupt ghastly shower. He might mean well. I’m glad he’s not showy. But is he more than words, designer glasses and expenses claims? Ten months on, the jury is still out for me.
I could never vote for nutjob Farage and his cabal of weirds and failures. They’re just a nasty rabble of Trumpesque halfwits. But with their simple messaging a lot of people will unless Starmer lot start doing something more than hiding behind words.
Until governments of whatever colour stop worrying about the left or right of their party, whether they need to pacify the Unions or big business and concentrate on the issue at hand and try more to do things that are of more benefit to the public at large they will continue to enrage the public and open the door for people like Farage. It's more to do with what he says than what he currently can do that is swaying the public his way because Labour and the Tories just plod on in their usual way with their usual policies which haven't worked and won't work.
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 19:23 - May 12 with 658 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:17 - May 12 by Herbivore
Frankly I'm staggered that you and other people whose job it is to further enrich the super rich are scaremongering about policies that might impact the wealth of the super rich. I'm aghast that people in a sector that relies on the custom of the super rich are making claims that are contrary to the findings of independent data analysts.
Booooo
Down with higher rate tax payers
Down with the legal profession
Down accountancy and consultants
And down with financial services - boooo
Enjoy your evening and your vision of a scorched earth dystopian society.
Good night Jeremy x
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 19:31 - May 12 with 644 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:31 - May 12 by DJR
You may be an expert when it comes to private banking, and PWC might be experts when it comes to tax advice, but surely the experts when it comes to tax-take forecasting are the Treasury and the OBR?
Interestingly, by your last sentence, you appear to be holding yourself out as more of an expert on tax-take forecasting than the OBR but surely you can't be absolutely certain you are right?
As it is, similar scare stories about non-doms leaving the country were doing the round even before Hunt announced changes to non-dom tax status last year.
"You may be an expert when it comes to private banking" If you could let my boss know this I'd be very grateful.
Re the OBR, what I'm arguing is that the assumptions they are working off are wrong and that far more than 12-25% of the non dom community will be / have left.
"but surely you can't be absolutely certain you are right?" might not be but would mean my clients aren't indicative of the wider HNW/non dom community, nor those of my colleagues, competitors and those of the advisors like PwC around them. Not impossible but seems unlikely.
For the record, I would love to be wrong about this but I'm 99% sure I'm not. We won't get the official figures for a couple of years though.
Re the similar stories, they weren't leaving in their droves like they are now but I'd note two things:
a) There have been very very few new arrivers on the non dom scheme since brexit. b) Brexit, Reform gaining traction and just a general under current of anti wealth in this country has meant most of them have now had enough.
Meanwhile, Italy, Ireland, Switzerland and the Channel Islands are welcoming these people and their tax revenue in with open arms.
[Post edited 12 May 20:40]
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 20:48 - May 12 with 546 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 18:52 - May 12 by lowhouseblue
people's concern is that immigration is now way too high. starmer appears to be trying to address that concern. how is that the 'rhetoric of farage', or 'farage's dog whistle', or a toxic agenda?
How has immigration made us a "nation of strangers" ? What a sad state of affairs that you find this acceptable and yet did so much to trash a chance of social change and a true social democracy when it was on offer!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 20:48 - May 12 by BanksterDebtSlave
How has immigration made us a "nation of strangers" ? What a sad state of affairs that you find this acceptable and yet did so much to trash a chance of social change and a true social democracy when it was on offer!
A nation of strangers could be any prosperous town in the Home Counties where non-white people are fairly thin on the ground. Or a commuter train from such a town into London.
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 21:22 - May 12 with 470 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 21:15 - May 12 by DJR
A nation of strangers could be any prosperous town in the Home Counties where non-white people are fairly thin on the ground. Or a commuter train from such a town into London.
Well exactly, it's all to do with the post Thatcher splintering of society and the promotion of ruthless individualism but yet here we are with New Labour fanboy excusing divisive rhetoric!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:32 - May 12 by Leaky
Does seem strange Starmer announces a White paper on immigration, soon after a surge in support for Reform. Obviuosly said white paper was planned before local elections. therefore had Starmer realise Reform were gaining in popularaty especially has he cancelled elelections in certain area's
what elections has Starmer cancelled?
Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:59 - May 12 by DJR
I am not quite sure what Corbyn has to do with it anyway but he is one of the last politicians you could describe as being unprincipled.
As it was, he was the leader of a party with a party policy, supporters and MPs that were overwhelmingly in favour of remain. He also faced pretty open rebellion from many of his MPs throughout his leadership, so to think that he could unilaterally have taken a different line is rather fanciful.
As it was, his natural instinct to support the Brexit vote, rather than go along with the futile (and undemocratic) second referendum campaign, would in my view have led to a better Brexit deal.
[Post edited 12 May 11:02]
What would a good Brexit deal have looked like, was such a thing even possible?
Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 21:42 - May 12 by bournemouthblue
What would a good Brexit deal have looked like, was such a thing even possible?
Being in a customs union would have been an improvement. This was something which Theresa May initially proposed. And it would have been better not to have a border in the Irish Sea which she also didn't want.
[Post edited 12 May 21:58]
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 22:27 - May 12 with 395 views
Some politicians claimed that his words had echoed Powell’s notorious “rivers of blood” speech, which imagined a future multicultural Britain where the white population “found themselves made strangers in their own country”.
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 15:08 - May 12 by Herbivore
It won't do anything about Farage, just as people voting for Brexit didn't. By constantly pivoting to positions that are his strength it gives him a legitimacy that his snake oil peddling doesn't deserve. It's been happening in politics and the media for years and we seem to have learnt nothing from over-platforming not just him but also his ideology.
Spot on. Starmer's shameful language won't stop people following the herd and voting reform. Sad times
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 23:00 - May 12 with 346 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 15:47 - May 12 by nrb1985
Afternoon Gary.
I've got to the point of not really caring about fairness or otherwise.
I care about making people's lives better and increasing the standard of living, health and public services.
Given we haven't grown the economy organically for two decades, then I'd like to actually grow the tax base by incentivising higher tax payers to come in not doing everything in our power to make them leave whether it be Brexit, Reform or this nonsense.
I assume from your childish and naïve snipe that you think shrinking the tax base in addition to a low growth economy will make things better not worse? if so, please show your workings.
[Post edited 12 May 16:00]
A few points:
- You've cited non-dom tax intake that could be lost as 8bn GBP, that's less then 1% of the total UK tax intake so whilst significant, it's not the death of the country that you're implying.
- By definition, someone with non-dom status is already disincentivised to pay tax otherwise they wouldn't claim that status. How do you propose we incentivise them and other earners to pay more tax given they clearly don't want to?
- Conceptually many people don't see non-dom tax rates as fair. Sure, the total amount of tax they pay is greater than the vast majority but it's at a substantially lower rate and politically many see that as an issue.
SB
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Starmer's principled positioning .... on 23:32 - May 12 with 305 views
Starmer's principled positioning .... on 23:00 - May 12 by StokieBlue
A few points:
- You've cited non-dom tax intake that could be lost as 8bn GBP, that's less then 1% of the total UK tax intake so whilst significant, it's not the death of the country that you're implying.
- By definition, someone with non-dom status is already disincentivised to pay tax otherwise they wouldn't claim that status. How do you propose we incentivise them and other earners to pay more tax given they clearly don't want to?
- Conceptually many people don't see non-dom tax rates as fair. Sure, the total amount of tax they pay is greater than the vast majority but it's at a substantially lower rate and politically many see that as an issue.
SB
It's genuinely mental that in the 21st century there are still people shilling for the idea that all we need to do is keep funnelling wealth to the super rich and eventually it'll trickle its way down.
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