| Bitcoin mining - madness 07:40 - May 23 with 10938 views | nodge_blue |
I’m getting really tired of the madness of this world. It’s draining all the stupid things we do.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2qg6e03l2o
Why invent a system that requires more and more power to create a bit coin. So much that power stations emitting large amount of noise disrupt people’s lives. Not to mention a contribution to climate change on the scale of Greece.
It’s pure madness and on top of it all who uses bitcoin anyway. It still has virtually no purpose other than a pyramid scheme to make people money. It’s immoral. I will admit I bought some in the past as an IT person who was interested in IT related things. But I think that was wrong now. And this article on the BBC is another enforcement of that view. Ban crypto.
[Post edited 23 May 7:41]
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:25 - May 23 with 1005 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:12 - May 23 by DanTheMan |
How would that even work practically?
You've got something that can swing 25-50% differences in a single month. Collateral needs things to be pretty stable, not wildly volatile.
You'd have to deal with the transaction problem which isn't solvable without effectively infinite energy.
Given how deflationary bitcoin is, why wouldn't Governments and institutions just hoard it? |
As with anything, the more capital inflows the less volatile it will become.
Plus, from a collateral perspective, it's not just stable. It's averaged over 140% ARR for the last decade. This will eventually slow, probably to around the 30% ARR mark, but people could still borrow 10% of their BTC holdings a year and still grow their holdings over that period.
Governments and institutions *are* beginning to hoard it. We're only now entering that phase. |  | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:26 - May 23 with 1004 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:25 - May 23 by J2BLUE |
You can. There are bitcoin debit cards just like there are for gold.
Completely agree it won't replace standard currency though. There is no logical reason for it to do so. |
Indeed.
There's dozens of BTC/crypto debit cards. Partnered with the likes of Visa and Mastercard e.g. https://www.coinbase.com/card | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:30 - May 23 with 981 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:24 - May 23 by nodge_blue |
And there we have it.
At the heart of every crypto coin holder is not some blockchain, anti establishment banking manifesto. It's all about creating personal wealth.
I have said many times on here Im quite centrist in my views and I don't have a problem with a certain amount of wealth creation but there comes a point when you have to see certain thing in certain lights.
This crypto cult is built purely on greed and the idea of getting rich for nothing. Thats the pyramid aspect, get in early, encourage the smucks not yet in and keep hyping the price.
I could swallow some of that if not for the huge amount of electricity and cpu resources we are taking to do this stupid game. |
It's not about *creating* personal wealth, it's merely preserving it!
If you have money sat in a current account doing nothing, approx 12-13% of your personal wealth is devalued year-on-year. That's through the current state of money printing. If, as I expect, we enter a new era of hyperinflation, that's only going to go higher.
Don't call me greedy when you know nothing about me. I get you're just trying to feel angry about something, but this is currently the only way to make sure your money works harder for you. Even just buying the S&P 500 would only keep pace with money printing right now. What's wrong with making your money work harder for you by the way? [Post edited 23 May 9:30]
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:34 - May 23 with 951 views | J2BLUE |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:24 - May 23 by nodge_blue |
And there we have it.
At the heart of every crypto coin holder is not some blockchain, anti establishment banking manifesto. It's all about creating personal wealth.
I have said many times on here Im quite centrist in my views and I don't have a problem with a certain amount of wealth creation but there comes a point when you have to see certain thing in certain lights.
This crypto cult is built purely on greed and the idea of getting rich for nothing. Thats the pyramid aspect, get in early, encourage the smucks not yet in and keep hyping the price.
I could swallow some of that if not for the huge amount of electricity and cpu resources we are taking to do this stupid game. |
It's all about creating personal wealth.
Well duh. You say that like it's some sort of gotcha point. We all work 50 years or so for money. If people can find a legal shortcut they will obviously take it. Bitcoin is a gamble. People might make a fortune or they might see it completely collapse. I think if you look at all of the adoption and follow it closely it's more likely to go up than down but it's clearly not guaranteed.
As for the electricity issue, it could be used to help the transition to renewable energy. Companies which have excess electricity from nuclear or hypro power etc are looking into using that energy for bitcoin mining. This could then be sold and invested into renewable infrastructure (EDF for example is state owned).
Just to be clear, I am not claiming that would make it in any way a carbon negative thing. Just that it could reduce some of the damage.
If you think Bitcoin uses energy, wait until you see AI. Amazon set to use around 6% of the energy in the UK soon just for data centres. |  |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:42 - May 23 with 915 views | nodge_blue |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:34 - May 23 by J2BLUE |
It's all about creating personal wealth.
Well duh. You say that like it's some sort of gotcha point. We all work 50 years or so for money. If people can find a legal shortcut they will obviously take it. Bitcoin is a gamble. People might make a fortune or they might see it completely collapse. I think if you look at all of the adoption and follow it closely it's more likely to go up than down but it's clearly not guaranteed.
As for the electricity issue, it could be used to help the transition to renewable energy. Companies which have excess electricity from nuclear or hypro power etc are looking into using that energy for bitcoin mining. This could then be sold and invested into renewable infrastructure (EDF for example is state owned).
Just to be clear, I am not claiming that would make it in any way a carbon negative thing. Just that it could reduce some of the damage.
If you think Bitcoin uses energy, wait until you see AI. Amazon set to use around 6% of the energy in the UK soon just for data centres. |
But AI can and will do many good things, such as medical break throughs. Theres many arguments about AI but it could help the human race enormously.
As I said in one of my comments on this thread Id have less issue with bitcoin if we stopped this mining complexity. You are in effect justifying personal wealth creation over the state of the planet and peoples lives (see article). Im not sure how you can do that.
Im not on about renewable energy, Im on about changing code to create the rest of these coins in a day and have done with it. And why don't we? Because the emperors new clothes seem a little more see through don't they when we realise there is no intrinsic worth in these coins other than the perceived value we give them. | |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:44 - May 23 with 903 views | itfc_bucks |
I have a fool proof way to get Bitcoin or any other system to fall over.
I'll invest in it.
See what I'm achieving in housing at the moment! Having bought at the height of the market, I'm overseeing the biggest slowdown in a generation!
Arranged to be free some weekends to get back to PR? Can't get a ticket through the ballot and the club get relegated anyway.
I'm the albatross for any season. | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:47 - May 23 with 886 views | StokieBlue |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 08:17 - May 23 by portmanking |
In 10-15 years from now, the world will be priced on a Bitcoin Standard. |
That's not going to happen, the volatility isn't easy to model so no way it's going to underpin anything.
I'm sure there are plenty of YouTube videos claiming what you are saying though.
SB |  | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:48 - May 23 with 883 views | J2BLUE |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:42 - May 23 by nodge_blue |
But AI can and will do many good things, such as medical break throughs. Theres many arguments about AI but it could help the human race enormously.
As I said in one of my comments on this thread Id have less issue with bitcoin if we stopped this mining complexity. You are in effect justifying personal wealth creation over the state of the planet and peoples lives (see article). Im not sure how you can do that.
Im not on about renewable energy, Im on about changing code to create the rest of these coins in a day and have done with it. And why don't we? Because the emperors new clothes seem a little more see through don't they when we realise there is no intrinsic worth in these coins other than the perceived value we give them. |
Fair point about AI.
You can make the same accusation about many things. If you choose to eat meat you are justifying your own preference over the planet. Etc etc.
Bitcoin can't be changed. It has a rigid set of rules. Only 21m will ever be created. Arguably that gives them more intrinsic worth than GBP.
You're just having a bit of a tantrum demanding it's banned because you don't have any and it wouldn't affect you. | |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:48 - May 23 with 887 views | blueasfook |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:14 - May 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I understand the concept, I disagree with the wording. In my head running a computer to process mathematical problems isn't mining and these facilities aren't mines in the traditional sense.
It's computer processing. Why not just call it that? I think nodge is right, they've just called it that to give it some sort of legitimacy. |
Do you see nerdy boffins in white coats in front of big machines with flashing lights? |  |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:49 - May 23 with 872 views | DanTheMan |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:25 - May 23 by portmanking |
As with anything, the more capital inflows the less volatile it will become.
Plus, from a collateral perspective, it's not just stable. It's averaged over 140% ARR for the last decade. This will eventually slow, probably to around the 30% ARR mark, but people could still borrow 10% of their BTC holdings a year and still grow their holdings over that period.
Governments and institutions *are* beginning to hoard it. We're only now entering that phase. |
Even if all of that was true (and it seems like speculation) that still doesn't solve the transaction speed or energy use issues.
It doesn't actually solve anything that we haven't already solved with the current monetary system.
Right now, the number of transaction per day in Bitcoin hovers 500,000. On a good day it takes 10-15 minutes to do a single transaction.
Meanwhile Mastercard is in the realm of doing that in under 2 minutes. Instantly. |  |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:50 - May 23 with 865 views | Blueschev |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:30 - May 23 by portmanking |
It's not about *creating* personal wealth, it's merely preserving it!
If you have money sat in a current account doing nothing, approx 12-13% of your personal wealth is devalued year-on-year. That's through the current state of money printing. If, as I expect, we enter a new era of hyperinflation, that's only going to go higher.
Don't call me greedy when you know nothing about me. I get you're just trying to feel angry about something, but this is currently the only way to make sure your money works harder for you. Even just buying the S&P 500 would only keep pace with money printing right now. What's wrong with making your money work harder for you by the way? [Post edited 23 May 9:30]
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What colour is your Bugatti? |  | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:52 - May 23 with 846 views | nodge_blue |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:49 - May 23 by DanTheMan |
Even if all of that was true (and it seems like speculation) that still doesn't solve the transaction speed or energy use issues.
It doesn't actually solve anything that we haven't already solved with the current monetary system.
Right now, the number of transaction per day in Bitcoin hovers 500,000. On a good day it takes 10-15 minutes to do a single transaction.
Meanwhile Mastercard is in the realm of doing that in under 2 minutes. Instantly. |
I know you are an IT person.
I was just thinking have we ever in IT or indeed in human history deliberately made something harder to create and do as we go along?
It's so mind blowing to me the more I think about it. We are effectively just creating a load of ones and zeros (no gold) and we are making it harder each cycle to work out what those ones and zeros are. | |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:53 - May 23 with 831 views | StokieBlue |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 08:54 - May 23 by portmanking |
As I said in a previous post. I envisage things will be duel-priced. For the next 15-20 years BTC will act as digital collateral/savings and fiat will remain the point-of-sale vehicle. But the government debt bubble has burst and fiat as we know it is dying a very slow death. |
How does bitcoin solve government debt issues?
The two things are totally unrelated so I would be interesting to hear your reasoning behind this.
SB | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:54 - May 23 with 810 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:48 - May 23 by blueasfook |
Do you see nerdy boffins in white coats in front of big machines with flashing lights? |
Is it possible to have a sensible discussion with you about anything? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:56 - May 23 with 797 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:53 - May 23 by StokieBlue |
How does bitcoin solve government debt issues?
The two things are totally unrelated so I would be interesting to hear your reasoning behind this.
SB |
If a government owns Bitcoin in a strategic reserve, it can leverage that appreciating asset to pay off treasury debts, averting a crisis. | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:56 - May 23 with 793 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:50 - May 23 by Blueschev |
What colour is your Bugatti? |
Blue and white. | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:57 - May 23 with 795 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:19 - May 23 by J2BLUE |
You can now buy your Steak 'n Shake with Bitcoin https://bitcoinmagazine.com/news/steak-n-shake-now-accepting-bitcoin-via-lightni
People need to open their eyes and look at the adoption of Bitcoin. It's here to stay.
I disagree it will become the global reserve currency though and there's a lot of right wing nutters in Bitcoin who need to be ignored.
As for the people saying it has no real value. Neither does paper money or the numbers on the screen on your bank account. |
I've been paid a % of my salary in Bitcoin for the past 4 years.
Its firmly here to stay but as you say that'll be as an asset class, not as the currency of the world. |  | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:00 - May 23 with 759 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:57 - May 23 by _clive_baker_ |
I've been paid a % of my salary in Bitcoin for the past 4 years.
Its firmly here to stay but as you say that'll be as an asset class, not as the currency of the world. |
Yes, it's digital collateral. The global store of value. | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:00 - May 23 with 754 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:57 - May 23 by _clive_baker_ |
I've been paid a % of my salary in Bitcoin for the past 4 years.
Its firmly here to stay but as you say that'll be as an asset class, not as the currency of the world. |
Are you a drug dealer? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:01 - May 23 with 745 views | DanTheMan |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:52 - May 23 by nodge_blue |
I know you are an IT person.
I was just thinking have we ever in IT or indeed in human history deliberately made something harder to create and do as we go along?
It's so mind blowing to me the more I think about it. We are effectively just creating a load of ones and zeros (no gold) and we are making it harder each cycle to work out what those ones and zeros are. |
Lots of things, but usually for good reason for example
e.g. Safety, security, privacy
On the side where we do it for no good reason, a very good example of this is tech-bros trying to re-invent public transport and just end up making poor versions of trains or buses. | |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:03 - May 23 with 735 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:56 - May 23 by portmanking |
If a government owns Bitcoin in a strategic reserve, it can leverage that appreciating asset to pay off treasury debts, averting a crisis. |
Or like El Salvador they have to take a FIAT loan to replace Bitcoin losses when it crashes again..there’s something else for that, gold so it’s solving a problem that doesn’t exist. | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:07 - May 23 with 715 views | Blueschev |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:56 - May 23 by portmanking |
If a government owns Bitcoin in a strategic reserve, it can leverage that appreciating asset to pay off treasury debts, averting a crisis. |
What happens when it tanks? Or the cleaner unplugs the server? | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:11 - May 23 with 688 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:56 - May 23 by portmanking |
If a government owns Bitcoin in a strategic reserve, it can leverage that appreciating asset to pay off treasury debts, averting a crisis. |
so governments should own highly speculative assets as a reserve? it sounds like those councils who went bust by borrowing to invest in dodgy property developments. their assets didn't appreciate. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:12 - May 23 with 687 views | portmanking |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:11 - May 23 by lowhouseblue |
so governments should own highly speculative assets as a reserve? it sounds like those councils who went bust by borrowing to invest in dodgy property developments. their assets didn't appreciate. |
Show me an asset with a more consistent rate of return in the last 15 years? | | | |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 10:14 - May 23 with 686 views | bsw72 |
| Bitcoin mining - madness on 09:44 - May 23 by itfc_bucks |
I have a fool proof way to get Bitcoin or any other system to fall over.
I'll invest in it.
See what I'm achieving in housing at the moment! Having bought at the height of the market, I'm overseeing the biggest slowdown in a generation!
Arranged to be free some weekends to get back to PR? Can't get a ticket through the ballot and the club get relegated anyway.
I'm the albatross for any season. |
Not all heroes wear capes! |  | | |
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