| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week 18:31 - May 30 with 9964 views | onceablue |
Slagging off Nigel Farage
Who are his PR Advisors?
I would be telling him not to even mention Farage. An election is at least 4 years away he should be concentrating on his party and his policies.
The speech he made at that factory is the sort of speech you make the week before an election
Everytime he mentions Farage it just strengthens the Reform Leader’s position
Reform is not the answer for this Country but Starmer is making this unlikely outcome a real possibility
Even the press have started to take the mickey out of Starmer
That
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:38 - Jun 1 with 969 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:27 - Jun 1 by Herbivore |
There is no mainstream political left in this country so I'm not sure who you think is going to carry the fight in any case. If it's patronising to tell people the truth these days then we really are in the sh!t. |
I agree on that! Corbyn was the last hope I feel.
We are in very dark times and it's going to get rockier. I do understand what you're driving at, I just don't think it's enough. |  | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:49 - Jun 1 with 951 views | Plums |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:27 - Jun 1 by Herbivore |
There is no mainstream political left in this country so I'm not sure who you think is going to carry the fight in any case. If it's patronising to tell people the truth these days then we really are in the sh!t. |
The watershed was when Brown was pilloried for calling a bigot a bigot. He wasn't allowed to 'tell it how it is' but the dialogue shifted so that the truth is now dead - courtesy of bigots who claim to 'tell it how it is'. I wish it made sense but it doesn't and yes, we really are in the sh!t. |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:50 - Jun 1 with 951 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:13 - Jun 1 by DJR |
I am no expert but I would say the Republican Party under George Dubya was not populist but under Trump it is.
And in this country, Reform is populist, and the Toru Party (but not all its MPs) is increasingly going in that direction.
Whether Johnson was populist, as opposed to popular, self-serving and loose with the truth, is for debate, but I am inclined to think the latter.
[Post edited 1 Jun 19:14]
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Thanks |  | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:59 - Jun 1 with 914 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:35 - Jun 1 by jasondozzell |
Oh I totally agree that they are all low tax, libertarian right wing people, but that won't put off a lot of the public. They'll agree with it. Thatcherism 2.0. But Farage is clever and having destroyed the Tories he's outflanking Labour on the left on things like the yep child benefit cap and British steel etc. At the same time, that muscular state approach combined with things like raising income tax threshold will see people viewing it as having more direct impact on them than anything before.
That combination is going to appeal and make sense to a lot of people.
If your bus costs more, never arrives on time, you can't afford to pay the bills, the town you live in looks dreadful, community and industry long gone, you can't keep up with the lifestyle that you're meant to have when you look at social media etc. and you remember things being better in the past, why wouldn't you roll the dice?
I'm not saying I agree with it at all but I'm saying to dismiss it as just turkeys voting for Christmas is to miss something really important. |
Parties that ignore this message will be toast in 2029. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 20:15 - Jun 1 with 879 views | StokieBlue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:52 - Jun 1 by jasondozzell |
Strawman argument.
The point is that Reform are not Labour or Tories. Public feels both have failed them. Like it or not we have to accept Reform will be able to position themselves as anti establishment. |
I'm not sure it is a strawman.
He is clearly a product of the establishment, he just hides it well when discussing things in the pub.
SB |  | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 21:12 - Jun 1 with 819 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 20:15 - Jun 1 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure it is a strawman.
He is clearly a product of the establishment, he just hides it well when discussing things in the pub.
SB |
Yes but he doesn't hide it or seem worried by it. I don't think it's going land many blows on him to say it. The reality is his party haven't ever been in government so they are anti the established political order. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 08:13 - Jun 2 with 702 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:59 - May 31 by DJR |
Interesting article about the key role of McSweeney in the project.
I read it at the time and was surprised (but maybe not) that this article and her book didn't get more coverage.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/14/corbyn-had-flown-too-close-to-t
It also seems that this was part of the project: see in particular the second video.
[Post edited 31 May 11:07]
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The article I linked above suggested the role that Blue Labour, founded by Maurice Glasman, had in the McSweeney project.
Glasman is the only person from the left in the UK who attended the Trump inauguration, and he speaks every Monday to Steve Bannon according to the following recent article. The article also says that McSweeney speaks to someone from Blue Labour on a daily basis.
https://observer.co.uk/news/politics/article/labours-trump-card
Given all this, the following from today's Guardian is an interesting development.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/02/blue-labour-group-urges-ministe
Leaving aside the fact that this is wrong in principle, it seems to me misguided politically because it is not going to win over potential Reform voters, who will vote for the real thing, and it is only likely to lose support from groups who traditionally support Labour.
Of course, nothing may come of this, but it is indicative to me of the rightward drift, in terms of thinking, of those at the core of the project. [Post edited 2 Jun 8:32]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 08:30 - Jun 2 with 678 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 19:35 - Jun 1 by jasondozzell |
Oh I totally agree that they are all low tax, libertarian right wing people, but that won't put off a lot of the public. They'll agree with it. Thatcherism 2.0. But Farage is clever and having destroyed the Tories he's outflanking Labour on the left on things like the yep child benefit cap and British steel etc. At the same time, that muscular state approach combined with things like raising income tax threshold will see people viewing it as having more direct impact on them than anything before.
That combination is going to appeal and make sense to a lot of people.
If your bus costs more, never arrives on time, you can't afford to pay the bills, the town you live in looks dreadful, community and industry long gone, you can't keep up with the lifestyle that you're meant to have when you look at social media etc. and you remember things being better in the past, why wouldn't you roll the dice?
I'm not saying I agree with it at all but I'm saying to dismiss it as just turkeys voting for Christmas is to miss something really important. |
Again, Farage didn't destroy the Tories, they destroyed themselves. Stop peddling this lie to make him sound cleverer than he is. It's nonsense. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 09:28 - Jun 2 with 623 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 08:30 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Again, Farage didn't destroy the Tories, they destroyed themselves. Stop peddling this lie to make him sound cleverer than he is. It's nonsense. |
Sorry, disagree. Of course the Tories managed themselves disastrously and were shambolic but it's very superficial analysis to say that it was just a case of them blowing themselves up. Nothing happens in isolation.
Farage has probably had more influence on British politics over the last quarter of a century than any other individual. We may not like it but that's the reality. Why did we have a EU referendum in the first place? UKIP a huge part of the pressure on Cameron to do so. Again, the Brexit party in 2019 and the deal with the Tories allowed him to push Tory position his way. Reform have now taken the Conservative mantle and replaced them in opposition.
It's just like Trump. Underestimating a canny operator is not wise. What he's doing now is turning his sights on Labour and attacking them from the left on many issues. Meanwhile Starmer and McSweeney, terrified of Reform, have doubled down on their Reform lite approach, literally using the language of Reform and aping them, lurching us even further to the right.
None of this is going away as much as we may like it to unless we face up to it. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:31]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 09:49 - Jun 2 with 600 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 09:28 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Sorry, disagree. Of course the Tories managed themselves disastrously and were shambolic but it's very superficial analysis to say that it was just a case of them blowing themselves up. Nothing happens in isolation.
Farage has probably had more influence on British politics over the last quarter of a century than any other individual. We may not like it but that's the reality. Why did we have a EU referendum in the first place? UKIP a huge part of the pressure on Cameron to do so. Again, the Brexit party in 2019 and the deal with the Tories allowed him to push Tory position his way. Reform have now taken the Conservative mantle and replaced them in opposition.
It's just like Trump. Underestimating a canny operator is not wise. What he's doing now is turning his sights on Labour and attacking them from the left on many issues. Meanwhile Starmer and McSweeney, terrified of Reform, have doubled down on their Reform lite approach, literally using the language of Reform and aping them, lurching us even further to the right.
None of this is going away as much as we may like it to unless we face up to it. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:31]
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I didn't say he hasn't been an influence. I just pushed back on your assertion that: "Farage is clever and having destroyed the Tories..." which you've repeated more than once.
Yes, he's had a huge influence. You say "Nothing happens in isolation" after repeatedly saying Farage destroyed the Tories.
The Tories' complacency is the main thing that's destroyed them. The lies and corruption they thought they could keep getting away with eventually caught up with them and the public eventually saw through it (they took their time, but finally, thankfully, got there). Farage was there to take advantage, and he certainly is a canny operator in that regard, but most votes went to Labour not Reform at the last general election. That's mostly because people had simply had enough of the Tories. If it were because Farage destroyed them Reform would've got more votes/seats - Labour won 412 seats, Reform won 5.
Farage is more of an opportunist than an instigator IMO. I'm certainly not underestimating him, but the figures don't stack up to your continued assertion that he destroyed the Tories. You're giving him more credit than he's due. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:27 - Jun 2 with 555 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 09:49 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I didn't say he hasn't been an influence. I just pushed back on your assertion that: "Farage is clever and having destroyed the Tories..." which you've repeated more than once.
Yes, he's had a huge influence. You say "Nothing happens in isolation" after repeatedly saying Farage destroyed the Tories.
The Tories' complacency is the main thing that's destroyed them. The lies and corruption they thought they could keep getting away with eventually caught up with them and the public eventually saw through it (they took their time, but finally, thankfully, got there). Farage was there to take advantage, and he certainly is a canny operator in that regard, but most votes went to Labour not Reform at the last general election. That's mostly because people had simply had enough of the Tories. If it were because Farage destroyed them Reform would've got more votes/seats - Labour won 412 seats, Reform won 5.
Farage is more of an opportunist than an instigator IMO. I'm certainly not underestimating him, but the figures don't stack up to your continued assertion that he destroyed the Tories. You're giving him more credit than he's due. |
We're going to have to agree to disagree!
Again, I think basing the analysis on voting figures alone is superficial. Those don't reflect the way the Tories were warped out of shape and repeatedly given a bruising by UKIP and Brexit party in the 2010s. In those years, Farage made huge progress in taking big bites out of Tory support and forced them to the right. Arguably, the only reason we end up with Boris is PM is that Farage had pushed the Tories rightwards and they needed a figure who could unite the headbangers that became the party.
One of the reasons Sunak called an early election was to try and head off that challenge from Farage. To achieve 5 MPs and the vote share Reform did after only being formed in 2020 was astonishing. It absolutely hugely contributed to the Tories demise.
The one constant in the Tories downfall has been Farage. And his message to Labour after the election was 'we're coming for you'. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:53 - Jun 2 with 533 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:27 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
We're going to have to agree to disagree!
Again, I think basing the analysis on voting figures alone is superficial. Those don't reflect the way the Tories were warped out of shape and repeatedly given a bruising by UKIP and Brexit party in the 2010s. In those years, Farage made huge progress in taking big bites out of Tory support and forced them to the right. Arguably, the only reason we end up with Boris is PM is that Farage had pushed the Tories rightwards and they needed a figure who could unite the headbangers that became the party.
One of the reasons Sunak called an early election was to try and head off that challenge from Farage. To achieve 5 MPs and the vote share Reform did after only being formed in 2020 was astonishing. It absolutely hugely contributed to the Tories demise.
The one constant in the Tories downfall has been Farage. And his message to Labour after the election was 'we're coming for you'. |
You're actually disagreeing with yourself and agreeing with me.
Some quotes from you:
"contributed to the Tories demise"
"given a bruising"
"taking big bites"
"One of the reasons"
Yep. He didn't destroy them on his own, as you have kept alluding to but are now rowing back on.
As I've said, Tory complacency is the main reason for the demise of the Tories. So Farage isn't "The one constant in the Tories downfall". Again, you try to slip in more credit when it's demonstrably not true. You say you don't agree with Farage/Reform but have a funny way of showing it.
Also, basing things on voting figures is a pretty good way to go, as gaining them is the ultimate aim of any party. 412 seats versus 5 doesn't say Farage destroyed the Tories, it says the public were fed up with them and voted Labour to get rid of them. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:17]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:08 - Jun 2 with 518 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 09:28 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Sorry, disagree. Of course the Tories managed themselves disastrously and were shambolic but it's very superficial analysis to say that it was just a case of them blowing themselves up. Nothing happens in isolation.
Farage has probably had more influence on British politics over the last quarter of a century than any other individual. We may not like it but that's the reality. Why did we have a EU referendum in the first place? UKIP a huge part of the pressure on Cameron to do so. Again, the Brexit party in 2019 and the deal with the Tories allowed him to push Tory position his way. Reform have now taken the Conservative mantle and replaced them in opposition.
It's just like Trump. Underestimating a canny operator is not wise. What he's doing now is turning his sights on Labour and attacking them from the left on many issues. Meanwhile Starmer and McSweeney, terrified of Reform, have doubled down on their Reform lite approach, literally using the language of Reform and aping them, lurching us even further to the right.
None of this is going away as much as we may like it to unless we face up to it. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:31]
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The Tory party has been divided over the EU since long before Farage came to prominence. There's as much (if not more) danger in overstating his influence as there is in understating it. Much of what caused the Tories to implode, the in fighting, the lies, the rank I competence, had little to nothing to do with Farage. |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:19 - Jun 2 with 509 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:53 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're actually disagreeing with yourself and agreeing with me.
Some quotes from you:
"contributed to the Tories demise"
"given a bruising"
"taking big bites"
"One of the reasons"
Yep. He didn't destroy them on his own, as you have kept alluding to but are now rowing back on.
As I've said, Tory complacency is the main reason for the demise of the Tories. So Farage isn't "The one constant in the Tories downfall". Again, you try to slip in more credit when it's demonstrably not true. You say you don't agree with Farage/Reform but have a funny way of showing it.
Also, basing things on voting figures is a pretty good way to go, as gaining them is the ultimate aim of any party. 412 seats versus 5 doesn't say Farage destroyed the Tories, it says the public were fed up with them and voted Labour to get rid of them. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:17]
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Nothing happens in isolation! As I've said. But Farage is the single biggest reason for their downfall.
As Herbivore says, the Tories have always been torn over the EU. But in my opinion, it's Farage who brought all that to a head and brought down successive Tory PMs.
He's unquestionably the single most influential politician in this country in the last 30 years.
Tory complacency played its part, but I don't think any from Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss or Sunak knew how to deal with Farage.
It will be the same with Starmer and Labour.
Farage is a far superior politician to any of the current crop from any party.
You don't have to be a Reform supporter to recognise that. [Post edited 2 Jun 11:39]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:25 - Jun 2 with 495 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:19 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Nothing happens in isolation! As I've said. But Farage is the single biggest reason for their downfall.
As Herbivore says, the Tories have always been torn over the EU. But in my opinion, it's Farage who brought all that to a head and brought down successive Tory PMs.
He's unquestionably the single most influential politician in this country in the last 30 years.
Tory complacency played its part, but I don't think any from Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss or Sunak knew how to deal with Farage.
It will be the same with Starmer and Labour.
Farage is a far superior politician to any of the current crop from any party.
You don't have to be a Reform supporter to recognise that. [Post edited 2 Jun 11:39]
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Just to be clear, I don't agree with your second paragraph. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:39 - Jun 2 with 464 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:19 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Nothing happens in isolation! As I've said. But Farage is the single biggest reason for their downfall.
As Herbivore says, the Tories have always been torn over the EU. But in my opinion, it's Farage who brought all that to a head and brought down successive Tory PMs.
He's unquestionably the single most influential politician in this country in the last 30 years.
Tory complacency played its part, but I don't think any from Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss or Sunak knew how to deal with Farage.
It will be the same with Starmer and Labour.
Farage is a far superior politician to any of the current crop from any party.
You don't have to be a Reform supporter to recognise that. [Post edited 2 Jun 11:39]
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You said Farage was "The one constant in the Tories downfall" and have now subtly changed that to "the biggest". You're still wrong, but at least you're moving in the right direction.
I've given my evidence that the single biggest reason is Tory complacency - the lies and corruption were exposed (not by Farage) and Labour won the election, with 412 seats to Farage's 5. There is simply no evidence there that it's Farage wot done it. Please show your evidence. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:18]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:40 - Jun 2 with 463 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:39 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You said Farage was "The one constant in the Tories downfall" and have now subtly changed that to "the biggest". You're still wrong, but at least you're moving in the right direction.
I've given my evidence that the single biggest reason is Tory complacency - the lies and corruption were exposed (not by Farage) and Labour won the election, with 412 seats to Farage's 5. There is simply no evidence there that it's Farage wot done it. Please show your evidence. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:18]
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Noted! Have edited it to make it clearer whose thoughts are whose. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:51 - Jun 2 with 444 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:39 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You said Farage was "The one constant in the Tories downfall" and have now subtly changed that to "the biggest". You're still wrong, but at least you're moving in the right direction.
I've given my evidence that the single biggest reason is Tory complacency - the lies and corruption were exposed (not by Farage) and Labour won the election, with 412 seats to Farage's 5. There is simply no evidence there that it's Farage wot done it. Please show your evidence. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:18]
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Being the one constant and biggest are not mutually exclusive.
Look beyond election results. Anyone with a passing interest in psephology would say that putting Reform's 5 MPs up against Labour's return completely misses the significance of the performance of Reform in that election.
Farage has dictated the terms of play for the Tory party for a long time. They've been transformed because of his influence and the mess they've found themselves in is because of that effect. Boris only becomes leader because of it! | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:25 - Jun 2 with 418 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:51 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Being the one constant and biggest are not mutually exclusive.
Look beyond election results. Anyone with a passing interest in psephology would say that putting Reform's 5 MPs up against Labour's return completely misses the significance of the performance of Reform in that election.
Farage has dictated the terms of play for the Tory party for a long time. They've been transformed because of his influence and the mess they've found themselves in is because of that effect. Boris only becomes leader because of it! |
ONE constant says "one".
Biggest suggests more than one.
I've not missed the significance of Farage and Reform, I've just said he didn't destroy the Tory party.
You've shifted from destroying to "transformed because of his influence".
With each post you soften your view, build straw men, and haven't offered up any tangible evidence for your initial assertion. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:59 - Jun 2 with 397 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:25 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
ONE constant says "one".
Biggest suggests more than one.
I've not missed the significance of Farage and Reform, I've just said he didn't destroy the Tory party.
You've shifted from destroying to "transformed because of his influence".
With each post you soften your view, build straw men, and haven't offered up any tangible evidence for your initial assertion. |
One constant means one cause that is always there, not that there is only one. Biggest means the most significant.
Transformed in a way that led to its destruction!
In short, the Tories have spent years contorting themselves because of Farage and it's led to their demise. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:11 - Jun 2 with 367 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:59 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
One constant means one cause that is always there, not that there is only one. Biggest means the most significant.
Transformed in a way that led to its destruction!
In short, the Tories have spent years contorting themselves because of Farage and it's led to their demise. |
I know what "one constant" means.
There's more than one, and their own complacency is not only a constant too... but also the most significant.
Again you end on a statement with no evidence. It's just rhetoric, something that Farage loves funny enough.
I've presented hard evidence, you've presented none. Nothing more I can say. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:11 - Jun 2 with 367 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:59 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
One constant means one cause that is always there, not that there is only one. Biggest means the most significant.
Transformed in a way that led to its destruction!
In short, the Tories have spent years contorting themselves because of Farage and it's led to their demise. |
The Tories were having the same spats and same issues with corruption under Thatcher and Major that ultimately ushered in Blair's "Labour Party" as they were in the years post-2015 when they went into complete meltdown and handed Starmer's "Labour Party" a massive majority. I do think you're overstating the level of influence of Farage. There have always been plenty in the Tory party who align with and fight for the same things as him going back to long before he was made relevant. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:16 - Jun 2 with 357 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:11 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
The Tories were having the same spats and same issues with corruption under Thatcher and Major that ultimately ushered in Blair's "Labour Party" as they were in the years post-2015 when they went into complete meltdown and handed Starmer's "Labour Party" a massive majority. I do think you're overstating the level of influence of Farage. There have always been plenty in the Tory party who align with and fight for the same things as him going back to long before he was made relevant. |
Yes, but the difference was before Farage those people were on the fringe. As Max Hastings says, they weren't worried by the right at all.
Now, as a direct result of Farage, they are the party. It's completely transformed.
Pre Farage, it was the party of Ken Clarke and Heseltine. Not anymore. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:59 - Jun 2 with 306 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:16 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Yes, but the difference was before Farage those people were on the fringe. As Max Hastings says, they weren't worried by the right at all.
Now, as a direct result of Farage, they are the party. It's completely transformed.
Pre Farage, it was the party of Ken Clarke and Heseltine. Not anymore. |
That's not really true. IDS and Michael Howard both led the Tories in the noughties and were very much of the right. Clarke and Heseltine never led the party.
Thatcher was brought down partly by rifts over Europe and those same rifts dogged Major's time as PM. Tory in fighting and power shifts between the rabid right and the more moderate centre right is a feature of the party, it's not something that has only been an issue since the emergence of Farage. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:25 - Jun 2 with 266 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:59 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
That's not really true. IDS and Michael Howard both led the Tories in the noughties and were very much of the right. Clarke and Heseltine never led the party.
Thatcher was brought down partly by rifts over Europe and those same rifts dogged Major's time as PM. Tory in fighting and power shifts between the rabid right and the more moderate centre right is a feature of the party, it's not something that has only been an issue since the emergence of Farage. |
I'm talking about the much harder right.
The Tories have long been split over Europe before Farage - I'm not disputing that. The point is that Farage's actions forced it to a point where the party broke. Never before had the hard right had such control of the party. You simply cannot imagine Braverman, Patel, Baker, Mogg etc. having such control and standing over the party as they did in the period leading up to and after Brexit. This is a direct result of Farage and it's transformed the party.
Where you see change [among members] is in attitudes on cultural and social matters,” says Professor Tim Bale of Queen Mary University London and author of The Conservative Party After Brexit. “It has, in a profound sense, moved away from mainstream conservatism which was quite tolerant. It now emphasises battling ‘woke’ and the idea that there is some shadowy elite controlling things and depriving the people of what they want and deserve.”
It's very similar to what has happened to the GOP in America. Remade in Trump's image. Republicanism was eaten from the inside by the Tea Party/Trump followers. | | | |
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