| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week 18:31 - May 30 with 13473 views | onceablue |
Slagging off Nigel Farage
Who are his PR Advisors?
I would be telling him not to even mention Farage. An election is at least 4 years away he should be concentrating on his party and his policies.
The speech he made at that factory is the sort of speech you make the week before an election
Everytime he mentions Farage it just strengthens the Reform Leader’s position
Reform is not the answer for this Country but Starmer is making this unlikely outcome a real possibility
Even the press have started to take the mickey out of Starmer
That
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 15:19 - Jun 2 with 600 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:25 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
I'm talking about the much harder right.
The Tories have long been split over Europe before Farage - I'm not disputing that. The point is that Farage's actions forced it to a point where the party broke. Never before had the hard right had such control of the party. You simply cannot imagine Braverman, Patel, Baker, Mogg etc. having such control and standing over the party as they did in the period leading up to and after Brexit. This is a direct result of Farage and it's transformed the party.
Where you see change [among members] is in attitudes on cultural and social matters,” says Professor Tim Bale of Queen Mary University London and author of The Conservative Party After Brexit. “It has, in a profound sense, moved away from mainstream conservatism which was quite tolerant. It now emphasises battling ‘woke’ and the idea that there is some shadowy elite controlling things and depriving the people of what they want and deserve.”
It's very similar to what has happened to the GOP in America. Remade in Trump's image. Republicanism was eaten from the inside by the Tea Party/Trump followers. |
I think crediting Farage for the Americanization of our politics is a bit of a stretch. The whole woke debate, the culture wars, getting one over on the libs, it's all imported from the US and the result of the pernicious influence of social media. Farage has jumped on that bandwagon but he's not responsible for it. I think you massively overstate his influence and that's not very helpful. |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:29 - Jun 2 with 526 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:39 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You said Farage was "The one constant in the Tories downfall" and have now subtly changed that to "the biggest". You're still wrong, but at least you're moving in the right direction.
I've given my evidence that the single biggest reason is Tory complacency - the lies and corruption were exposed (not by Farage) and Labour won the election, with 412 seats to Farage's 5. There is simply no evidence there that it's Farage wot done it. Please show your evidence. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:18]
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Labour won the last election with fewer votes than they got in 2019. Less people liked Starmer than liked Corbyn.
Just 22% of the available electorate choose them.
Which tends to suggest 78% either could not be bothered or disagreed with them.
The reason they got 412 seats is that the right and centre right votes were split between the tories and reform which was entirely down to Farage. [Post edited 2 Jun 20:37]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:46 - Jun 2 with 508 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:29 - Jun 2 by flykickingbybgunn |
Labour won the last election with fewer votes than they got in 2019. Less people liked Starmer than liked Corbyn.
Just 22% of the available electorate choose them.
Which tends to suggest 78% either could not be bothered or disagreed with them.
The reason they got 412 seats is that the right and centre right votes were split between the tories and reform which was entirely down to Farage. [Post edited 2 Jun 20:37]
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Had the last election been under the same rules of Scottish & Welsh Assemblies, then Conservative & Reform combined would have had as many seats as Labour.
First past the post produced a b8g Labour majority without a landslide vote.
https://electoral-reform.org.uk/how-the-2024-election-could-have-looked-with-pro |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:57 - Jun 2 with 504 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:29 - Jun 2 by flykickingbybgunn |
Labour won the last election with fewer votes than they got in 2019. Less people liked Starmer than liked Corbyn.
Just 22% of the available electorate choose them.
Which tends to suggest 78% either could not be bothered or disagreed with them.
The reason they got 412 seats is that the right and centre right votes were split between the tories and reform which was entirely down to Farage. [Post edited 2 Jun 20:37]
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Exactly this. |  | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:00 - Jun 2 with 501 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 15:19 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
I think crediting Farage for the Americanization of our politics is a bit of a stretch. The whole woke debate, the culture wars, getting one over on the libs, it's all imported from the US and the result of the pernicious influence of social media. Farage has jumped on that bandwagon but he's not responsible for it. I think you massively overstate his influence and that's not very helpful. |
I don't think Americanisation is enough to describe what has happened. Although Farage has sought close ties to the American right and Trump and arguably him bringing their funding over here is going to be a huge part of things. So you could say he has also been key part of our politics being Americanised!
Farage has changed the face of the Tories from the 'natural party of government' to an irrelevance.
Which other politician has had more of an effect on the Tories over the last 25 years than Farage?
The current Labour government is the worst set of people at the worst time with it comes to addressing the threat of all this.
A 2029 election which becomes a rerun of Brexit where horrified prof/managerial class throw up hands and say to ordinary people, 'look Farage might like a pint but he's privately educated banker who is using you' and Labour do a Reform lite act around flags and crackdowns, will only end in Reform landslide.
He's got to be taken more seriously than that. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:07]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:06 - Jun 2 with 477 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:00 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
I don't think Americanisation is enough to describe what has happened. Although Farage has sought close ties to the American right and Trump and arguably him bringing their funding over here is going to be a huge part of things. So you could say he has also been key part of our politics being Americanised!
Farage has changed the face of the Tories from the 'natural party of government' to an irrelevance.
Which other politician has had more of an effect on the Tories over the last 25 years than Farage?
The current Labour government is the worst set of people at the worst time with it comes to addressing the threat of all this.
A 2029 election which becomes a rerun of Brexit where horrified prof/managerial class throw up hands and say to ordinary people, 'look Farage might like a pint but he's privately educated banker who is using you' and Labour do a Reform lite act around flags and crackdowns, will only end in Reform landslide.
He's got to be taken more seriously than that. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:07]
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The Tories have largely done that to themselves, so I just don't buy your narrative however much you repeat it. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:09 - Jun 2 with 478 views | jasondozzell |
Yes, it was a paper thin landslide.
There was never any natural enthusiasm for the Starmer project. It came only from the media who were complicit and the Labour right. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:17 - Jun 2 with 452 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:29 - Jun 2 by flykickingbybgunn |
Labour won the last election with fewer votes than they got in 2019. Less people liked Starmer than liked Corbyn.
Just 22% of the available electorate choose them.
Which tends to suggest 78% either could not be bothered or disagreed with them.
The reason they got 412 seats is that the right and centre right votes were split between the tories and reform which was entirely down to Farage. [Post edited 2 Jun 20:37]
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You can twist stats any way you like. I'm sure lots of people voted for Reform because of Farage, but a hell of a lot voted for anyone but the Tories (including voting for Labour).
From chatgpt:
"In the 2024 UK general election, the Conservative Party lost 251 seats, marking the worst result in its history. Of these, 182 seats were gained by the Labour Party, representing a significant shift from Conservative to Labour control .
This substantial transfer of seats contributed to Labour's overall total of 412 seats, securing a majority of 174 in the House of Commons .
Notably, several high-profile Conservative figures lost their seats to Labour candidates, including former Prime Minister Liz Truss in South West Norfolk, and former cabinet ministers such as Grant Shapps, Penny Mordaunt, and Jacob Rees-Mogg. The election results reflect a significant realignment in UK politics, with Labour reclaiming many constituencies that had previously shifted to the Conservatives in 2019." |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:17 - Jun 2 with 452 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:06 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
The Tories have largely done that to themselves, so I just don't buy your narrative however much you repeat it. |
We'll agree to disagree then!
Farage and Reform may now have the biggest political membership in this country. To me he's not an opportunist, he's a figure shaping the political landscape. I think the fate of the Tory party is part of that reconfiguring. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:18 - Jun 2 with 443 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:09 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Yes, it was a paper thin landslide.
There was never any natural enthusiasm for the Starmer project. It came only from the media who were complicit and the Labour right. |
Media support was pretty lukewarm and there was still a decent amount of support for the Tories in certain predictable quarters: https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/general-election-2024-press-endo
It's not exactly news that there wasn't much enthusiasm for Starmer and the Tories very much gifted him a big win (in terms of seats). Plenty of traditional Labour voters stayed at home and the Greens also gained votes. I think if Reform had a realistic chance of winning a GE, you might see some folks hold their noses and vote Labour as the lesser of two evils. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:20 - Jun 2 with 439 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:17 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
We'll agree to disagree then!
Farage and Reform may now have the biggest political membership in this country. To me he's not an opportunist, he's a figure shaping the political landscape. I think the fate of the Tory party is part of that reconfiguring. |
He's absolutely an opportunist. You give him far too much credit, in many different ways. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:21 - Jun 2 with 442 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
The UK has used the FPTP system for general elections since 1885, FFS.
You can't just change the rules this one time to suit your argument. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:21 - Jun 2 with 440 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:18 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
Media support was pretty lukewarm and there was still a decent amount of support for the Tories in certain predictable quarters: https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/general-election-2024-press-endo
It's not exactly news that there wasn't much enthusiasm for Starmer and the Tories very much gifted him a big win (in terms of seats). Plenty of traditional Labour voters stayed at home and the Greens also gained votes. I think if Reform had a realistic chance of winning a GE, you might see some folks hold their noses and vote Labour as the lesser of two evils. |
Media support was lukewarm?!! Starmer was soft soaped in! Hence the fact that as soon as they actually faced any scrutiny they floundered. How many journalists knew about the leadership stitch up and how many said anything is a good barometer of the support he enjoyed.
Labour approval is down to 12%. They are losing voters to left and right. I don't think the lesser of two evils vote is going to remotely b work and if that's what it becomes there are in deep deep trouble imo. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:22]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:24 - Jun 2 with 435 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:06 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
The Tories have largely done that to themselves, so I just don't buy your narrative however much you repeat it. |
Yes the tories did it to themselves.
But now Starmer is in the cross hairs and his show is not so good either.
Try selling the idea of nearly £500,000/day for 99 years to give away the Chagos Islands so that China can benefit.
Makes you want to pay your taxes dont it. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:31 - Jun 2 with 411 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:24 - Jun 2 by flykickingbybgunn |
Yes the tories did it to themselves.
But now Starmer is in the cross hairs and his show is not so good either.
Try selling the idea of nearly £500,000/day for 99 years to give away the Chagos Islands so that China can benefit.
Makes you want to pay your taxes dont it. |
The Chagos Islands is another legacy issue from the Tories. They kick-started the process of returning control to Mauritius in 2022. Labour aren't remotely doing a good job but they were handed the mother of poisoned chalices by the Tories. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:32 - Jun 2 with 405 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:21 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Media support was lukewarm?!! Starmer was soft soaped in! Hence the fact that as soon as they actually faced any scrutiny they floundered. How many journalists knew about the leadership stitch up and how many said anything is a good barometer of the support he enjoyed.
Labour approval is down to 12%. They are losing voters to left and right. I don't think the lesser of two evils vote is going to remotely b work and if that's what it becomes there are in deep deep trouble imo. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:22]
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Yes, media support was lukewarm. What media are you referring to that was going bonkers over how amazing Starmer was? There was very little enthusiasm for him anywhere. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:34 - Jun 2 with 392 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:21 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Media support was lukewarm?!! Starmer was soft soaped in! Hence the fact that as soon as they actually faced any scrutiny they floundered. How many journalists knew about the leadership stitch up and how many said anything is a good barometer of the support he enjoyed.
Labour approval is down to 12%. They are losing voters to left and right. I don't think the lesser of two evils vote is going to remotely b work and if that's what it becomes there are in deep deep trouble imo. [Post edited 2 Jun 17:22]
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Given that 90% of the print media is agressively right wing, that seems a stretch. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:35 - Jun 2 with 389 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:24 - Jun 2 by flykickingbybgunn |
Yes the tories did it to themselves.
But now Starmer is in the cross hairs and his show is not so good either.
Try selling the idea of nearly £500,000/day for 99 years to give away the Chagos Islands so that China can benefit.
Makes you want to pay your taxes dont it. |
Err there is a clear legal basis for giving back some Islands we have no right to hold, and its a deal which was negotiated to a large extent by the previous government. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:40 - Jun 2 with 383 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:34 - Jun 2 by redrickstuhaart |
Given that 90% of the print media is agressively right wing, that seems a stretch. |
Compare the treatment Corbyn got with Starmer.
Starmer and Labour were given an unbelievably easy ride. No one even asked them how they would get the growth! | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:41 - Jun 2 with 377 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:40 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
Compare the treatment Corbyn got with Starmer.
Starmer and Labour were given an unbelievably easy ride. No one even asked them how they would get the growth! |
Thats not true.
Corbyn's position was far more difficult to defend so got more criticism.
Bizarre. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:47 - Jun 2 with 368 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:32 - Jun 2 by Herbivore |
Yes, media support was lukewarm. What media are you referring to that was going bonkers over how amazing Starmer was? There was very little enthusiasm for him anywhere. |
They were ushered in as if it was 1997! The media was nervous because of the emperor's new clothes gig they'd been on so quickly got worried once it was clear it was going to be a disaster. But in the run up to the election Labour couldn't have hoped for a nicer media ride.
Labour won the endorsement of Guardian, Sun, Sunday Times, Mirror, Financial Times, The Economist, The Observer. The Times didn't endorse anyone...
Compare this to 2019 where you had The Observer erroneously suggesting voters vote Lib Dem tactically in seats they actually couldn't win... | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:48 - Jun 2 with 365 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:41 - Jun 2 by redrickstuhaart |
Thats not true.
Corbyn's position was far more difficult to defend so got more criticism.
Bizarre. |
What was much more difficult about it?
I would think Labour leaks and racism scandal, lying to members to win the leadership, breaking all of your leadership pledges, having no coherent political plan, having Mandelson at the head of it all etc would be more difficult to defend but clearly not... | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:51 - Jun 2 with 356 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:48 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
What was much more difficult about it?
I would think Labour leaks and racism scandal, lying to members to win the leadership, breaking all of your leadership pledges, having no coherent political plan, having Mandelson at the head of it all etc would be more difficult to defend but clearly not... |
It was in many instances an unreasonable hard left position. Starmer far more central. Of course there is more to criticise.
Not sure if serious.... | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:52 - Jun 2 with 355 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:47 - Jun 2 by jasondozzell |
They were ushered in as if it was 1997! The media was nervous because of the emperor's new clothes gig they'd been on so quickly got worried once it was clear it was going to be a disaster. But in the run up to the election Labour couldn't have hoped for a nicer media ride.
Labour won the endorsement of Guardian, Sun, Sunday Times, Mirror, Financial Times, The Economist, The Observer. The Times didn't endorse anyone...
Compare this to 2019 where you had The Observer erroneously suggesting voters vote Lib Dem tactically in seats they actually couldn't win... |
They could hardly endorse Sunak and co. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:55 - Jun 2 with 350 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:51 - Jun 2 by redrickstuhaart |
It was in many instances an unreasonable hard left position. Starmer far more central. Of course there is more to criticise.
Not sure if serious.... |
Was Clement Attlee hard left?
What is hard left? | | | |
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