| Starmer's bill and two party system 09:50 - Jul 1 with 2077 views | nrb1985 |
I'm by no means a Politico so I don't know what the answer is but I'm following the newsflow on the Starmer bill today and it seems there's pretty much open revolt on his back benches from the left wing of his party. The tail wagging the dog so to speak.
It was the same under the Tories with the lunatic fringe pulling them ever further from the centre towards Farage, which wasn't particularly helpful to put it mildly. Indeed every week there seemed some ever more ridiculous pop up group of "neo con" or whatever nonsense Truss and Rees-Mogg were spouting that particular week.
Both parties describe themselves as a "broad church" but in practice what that looks like to me is that you have multiple conflicting views all the time and end up with Frankenstein legislation and policies that don't really satisfy or appease anyone.
Like I say, not a Politico and certainly don't follow UK politics as closely as some on here but rather seems to me the two party system doesn't really work for many people, least of all the MPs themselves.
You certainly couldn't run a company like this anyhow. [Post edited 1 Jul 15:27]
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 14:14 - Jul 1 with 475 views | BlueForYou |
The answer is …… a General Election. Personally I hoped Labour would be ok, but they’ve proven to be totally pathetic. |  | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 14:20 - Jul 1 with 458 views | Libero |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 14:14 - Jul 1 by BlueForYou |
The answer is …… a General Election. Personally I hoped Labour would be ok, but they’ve proven to be totally pathetic. |
If there was a general election today the fascists would win.
I don’t know who this person is, but we need this awful labour government to hold space until someone with some moral fortitude and people driven policy can come to the fore- be that from within the party or a totally new entity.
It’s crazy but right now there are literally zero viable options in leadership roles to run the country. |  | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 15:14 - Jul 1 with 402 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 14:14 - Jul 1 by BlueForYou |
The answer is …… a General Election. Personally I hoped Labour would be ok, but they’ve proven to be totally pathetic. |
Can I ask which other party you could vote for to elect the government you wish for. |  |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 15:31 - Jul 1 with 392 views | Dennyx4 |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 14:20 - Jul 1 by Libero |
If there was a general election today the fascists would win.
I don’t know who this person is, but we need this awful labour government to hold space until someone with some moral fortitude and people driven policy can come to the fore- be that from within the party or a totally new entity.
It’s crazy but right now there are literally zero viable options in leadership roles to run the country. |
Andy Burnham would be a better Labour Leader, can’t see it happening though. |  | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 15:59 - Jul 1 with 380 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 11:17 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
Welcome back not seen you around for a while
Thanks for the article
It’s very interesting to me that people keep calling him right wing, this is a man who wants to legalise cannabis for eg
He doesn’t seem very right wing to me at all and I am fascinated by the shift in political dialogue in the last ten years in this country and the moving feast of terminology and labels |
The rationale for legalising cannabis can come from the right or the left. From the right, it's in line with libertarian economic thinking, similar to his views on health insurance etc. |  | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:00 - Jul 1 with 379 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 13:18 - Jul 1 by Libero |
…PIP has a fraud rate of less than 1% and is essential for many disabled people to enable them to access the workplace, it’s notoriously hard to claim even with medical documentation, it absolutely does not need to be cut. |
Over 1,000 people are day are becoming entitled to PIP, my father in law needs to but got rejected because he said he can walk 200m [didn't mention he probably has to stop 8 times in it].
The system is either being fiddled, or the barriers to receive it are too low, but wither way over 1000 extra claimaints a day is unsustainable - that will be nearly another 2 million people over this parliament.
Cutting the amounts paid is the wrong move - but it needs to be stricter to get on it and properly reassessed at given intervals |  |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:10 - Jul 1 with 362 views | leitrimblue |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:00 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
Over 1,000 people are day are becoming entitled to PIP, my father in law needs to but got rejected because he said he can walk 200m [didn't mention he probably has to stop 8 times in it].
The system is either being fiddled, or the barriers to receive it are too low, but wither way over 1000 extra claimaints a day is unsustainable - that will be nearly another 2 million people over this parliament.
Cutting the amounts paid is the wrong move - but it needs to be stricter to get on it and properly reassessed at given intervals |
Perhaps I've misunderstood your post. But are you not saying your father in law needs this benefit but was turned down because he can walk 200 meters. While suggesting eligibility needs to be tightened up?
Surely tightening up eligibility will just lead to more people like your father in law who need these benefits being denied them? |  | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:22 - Jul 1 with 327 views | OldFart71 |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 13:43 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
The most obvious welfare bill to cut (in terms of quantity) is the one nobody even dares to name. Indeed, it is triple-locked.
Not as if that would be any better, or cause less hardship. But if politicians insist on not maximising income and maintaining spending restrictions, while at the same time increasing defence and other expenses, then what is to be done? |
As a pensioner I would be happy to accept inflation as a point at which State pension increases are made and drop the 2.5% or wage inflation.
I also believe that the Government should stop giving free prescriptions when age 60 is achieved except those that require certain medication all the time and that those who continue to work beyond their pensionable age should carry on paying N.I.
I also think that once a person reaches pensionable age the personal allowance should be raised to say £15,000 as many pensioners who get a small income on top of the State Pension are/will be paying tax.
The current State Pension isn't even equal to a person on a minimum wage doing a 38 hour week, in fact it's around £7,000 per annum even after the worker takes out his 30% ish for tax and N.I. | | | |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:26 - Jul 1 with 315 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:10 - Jul 1 by leitrimblue |
Perhaps I've misunderstood your post. But are you not saying your father in law needs this benefit but was turned down because he can walk 200 meters. While suggesting eligibility needs to be tightened up?
Surely tightening up eligibility will just lead to more people like your father in law who need these benefits being denied them? |
The main problem is people fiddle the system, he didn't know what to answer so he wasn't able to do so. Away with friends at the weekend, we all have family members, or people we come across in lines of work who totally fiddle the system, who conspire with other friends and those on it to do so - but it's reached a tipping point now with so many new claimants going on to it each day
It's something tough to sort, bur basically no one wants to give anything up so nothing changes - private school fees, farmers inheritance tax, non-doms, winter fuel, welfare reform etc......every attempt by the Govt to change anything leads to such fury that nothing end sup really changing and we can't bring money in. | |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:28 - Jul 1 with 312 views | DJR |
For me the issue is that both main parties have ceased to be broad churches, as they have each moved to the right. This in my view leads to bad policy because there is insufficient challenge internally at the policy development stage.
By contrast, say, the Blair government was a broad church which (leaving aside the Iraq war and a global recession) governed fairly well, even I didn't agree with all they did on the policy front.
The upshot is a feeling that the two main parties in with a chance of government don't represent a lot of people, as I currently feel myself. I therefore favour FPTP but, as Belgium goes to show, proportional representation doesn't necessarily lead to stable government because it involves coalitions (which may be fragile) between parties which may have little in common. [Post edited 1 Jul 16:43]
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:29 - Jul 1 with 309 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:22 - Jul 1 by OldFart71 |
As a pensioner I would be happy to accept inflation as a point at which State pension increases are made and drop the 2.5% or wage inflation.
I also believe that the Government should stop giving free prescriptions when age 60 is achieved except those that require certain medication all the time and that those who continue to work beyond their pensionable age should carry on paying N.I.
I also think that once a person reaches pensionable age the personal allowance should be raised to say £15,000 as many pensioners who get a small income on top of the State Pension are/will be paying tax.
The current State Pension isn't even equal to a person on a minimum wage doing a 38 hour week, in fact it's around £7,000 per annum even after the worker takes out his 30% ish for tax and N.I. |
I'm a pensioner and I get a fair bit more than seven grand a year, are you sure you haven't given us the figure for someone who has only worked a decade or so of their adult life ? |  |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:36 - Jul 1 with 294 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:29 - Jul 1 by WeWereZombies |
I'm a pensioner and I get a fair bit more than seven grand a year, are you sure you haven't given us the figure for someone who has only worked a decade or so of their adult life ? |
He appears to have included tax and NI which dont apply.... | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:39 - Jul 1 with 291 views | BlueForYou |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 15:14 - Jul 1 by Pinewoodblue |
Can I ask which other party you could vote for to elect the government you wish for. |
There isn't one. I didn't vote in the last Election. I've voted for each main party during my life. None of them were capable of delivering what they promised. I'd be interested in a different kind of voting based upon important issues, not party lines. Elect a parliament based upon their ability to act upon the electorates views & wishes, & to get things done. Totally disillusioned with UK party politics. Proportional representation will just make things worse. Need something radically clever & totally different. | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:41 - Jul 1 with 289 views | DJR |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:22 - Jul 1 by OldFart71 |
As a pensioner I would be happy to accept inflation as a point at which State pension increases are made and drop the 2.5% or wage inflation.
I also believe that the Government should stop giving free prescriptions when age 60 is achieved except those that require certain medication all the time and that those who continue to work beyond their pensionable age should carry on paying N.I.
I also think that once a person reaches pensionable age the personal allowance should be raised to say £15,000 as many pensioners who get a small income on top of the State Pension are/will be paying tax.
The current State Pension isn't even equal to a person on a minimum wage doing a 38 hour week, in fact it's around £7,000 per annum even after the worker takes out his 30% ish for tax and N.I. |
Pensions make up 48% of welfare spending, which is predicted by the OBR to rise to 49% by 2028- 2029.
I think it would be harsh on poorer pensioners to remove the triple lock but I can see the case for doing so for those above a certain level of income (£30,000? higher rate taxpayers?).
The problem is that the government so cocked up WFPs that this is just not an area where it will dare to tread. [Post edited 1 Jul 17:53]
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:50 - Jul 1 with 279 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:00 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
Over 1,000 people are day are becoming entitled to PIP, my father in law needs to but got rejected because he said he can walk 200m [didn't mention he probably has to stop 8 times in it].
The system is either being fiddled, or the barriers to receive it are too low, but wither way over 1000 extra claimaints a day is unsustainable - that will be nearly another 2 million people over this parliament.
Cutting the amounts paid is the wrong move - but it needs to be stricter to get on it and properly reassessed at given intervals |
It is unsustainable. And it started under the previous government creating a ticking bomb which the current government are being criticised for trying to fix.
The other option (after fiddling the system and low bars) is that the rest of our public services are screwed and huge numbers of people are unable to cope because they have not had support when needed from social services, from mental health services, and from physical health services. | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:59 - Jul 1 with 263 views | leitrimblue |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:26 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
The main problem is people fiddle the system, he didn't know what to answer so he wasn't able to do so. Away with friends at the weekend, we all have family members, or people we come across in lines of work who totally fiddle the system, who conspire with other friends and those on it to do so - but it's reached a tipping point now with so many new claimants going on to it each day
It's something tough to sort, bur basically no one wants to give anything up so nothing changes - private school fees, farmers inheritance tax, non-doms, winter fuel, welfare reform etc......every attempt by the Govt to change anything leads to such fury that nothing end sup really changing and we can't bring money in. |
I still think your father in laws example shows the potential dangers of tightening up the system further.
I also think the problem of people being capable of working but choosing not to and those fiddling the system is a different issue. And I'm not sure tightening up the requirements at the risk of denying people like your father in law who genuinely need this benefit is the answer.
I'm not sure what the solution is for people who are fit for work but choose not.I have sorta friends who choose not to work. They annoy the feck outta me, but I'm not sure what you can do with um.
I employed 1 of this gang a 6-7 years ago. It's a cushy enough job, well paid and with quite good prospects. But she was absolutely shocking, both mentally and physically.
No work ethic, not sure she even understood the principle.
Lucky if she managed a 4 day week, then her attendance got worse to the point she just didn't turn up.
Perhaps some kinda universal credit may be the answer. | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:07 - Jul 1 with 254 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:26 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
The main problem is people fiddle the system, he didn't know what to answer so he wasn't able to do so. Away with friends at the weekend, we all have family members, or people we come across in lines of work who totally fiddle the system, who conspire with other friends and those on it to do so - but it's reached a tipping point now with so many new claimants going on to it each day
It's something tough to sort, bur basically no one wants to give anything up so nothing changes - private school fees, farmers inheritance tax, non-doms, winter fuel, welfare reform etc......every attempt by the Govt to change anything leads to such fury that nothing end sup really changing and we can't bring money in. |
Not to split hairs but they did introduce a very dramatic change to the non dom regime which on the face of it looks like it’ll result in a net loss…
I agree with your sentiments though that we’re stuck in a form of paralysis on some major issues. | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:14 - Jul 1 with 244 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:59 - Jul 1 by leitrimblue |
I still think your father in laws example shows the potential dangers of tightening up the system further.
I also think the problem of people being capable of working but choosing not to and those fiddling the system is a different issue. And I'm not sure tightening up the requirements at the risk of denying people like your father in law who genuinely need this benefit is the answer.
I'm not sure what the solution is for people who are fit for work but choose not.I have sorta friends who choose not to work. They annoy the feck outta me, but I'm not sure what you can do with um.
I employed 1 of this gang a 6-7 years ago. It's a cushy enough job, well paid and with quite good prospects. But she was absolutely shocking, both mentally and physically.
No work ethic, not sure she even understood the principle.
Lucky if she managed a 4 day week, then her attendance got worse to the point she just didn't turn up.
Perhaps some kinda universal credit may be the answer. |
I guess what seems to have changed is that whilst JSA has tightened up, everyone has moved across to PIP or some form of disability benefit - your friend should be getting JSA at however much it is a week but when you are on disability for a lot of people the amounts you can get make finding work impossible because the jobs don't exist to cover the level of benefits you receive.
A girl I was away with at the weekend, her bro's wife fiddles it all - end sup with about £35k a year, you aren't going to find a job that pays that sort of money in Ipswich or Clacton or Felixstowe where we were all from this weekend. They don't exist for 'people like that' | |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:49 - Jul 1 with 195 views | Libero |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:00 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
Over 1,000 people are day are becoming entitled to PIP, my father in law needs to but got rejected because he said he can walk 200m [didn't mention he probably has to stop 8 times in it].
The system is either being fiddled, or the barriers to receive it are too low, but wither way over 1000 extra claimaints a day is unsustainable - that will be nearly another 2 million people over this parliament.
Cutting the amounts paid is the wrong move - but it needs to be stricter to get on it and properly reassessed at given intervals |
PIP is not being ‘fiddled’
Sadly there are long standing issues with various third party assessors failing to adequately train staff or implement a suitable procedure for assessments- this is why so many go to tribunal and why so many tribunals win. There are also issues with the assessment itself, but that’s a long and boring conversation. It’s next to impossible to ‘fiddle’ due to the uncharitable nature in which it’s marked- I know many many disabled people who have been rejected.
Entitlements for PIP have raised dramatically since there was a mass disabling event, the pandemic. Not only did the event itself disable people but it disrupted a number of people who were already disabled and functioning on a very delicate balance- lockdowns etc disrupted this and effected their ability to function and now there are lots of disabled people who previously didn’t claim PIP who need to just to survive.
It’s also worth mentioning that PIP is traditionally one of the most underclaimed benefits.
If you need any advice on how to appropriately fill out the form for your Father in Law drop me a DM anytime- in one of my previous roles I supported many disabled people with their claims and have my own personal experience too. | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:53 - Jul 1 with 191 views | Libero |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:14 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
I guess what seems to have changed is that whilst JSA has tightened up, everyone has moved across to PIP or some form of disability benefit - your friend should be getting JSA at however much it is a week but when you are on disability for a lot of people the amounts you can get make finding work impossible because the jobs don't exist to cover the level of benefits you receive.
A girl I was away with at the weekend, her bro's wife fiddles it all - end sup with about £35k a year, you aren't going to find a job that pays that sort of money in Ipswich or Clacton or Felixstowe where we were all from this weekend. They don't exist for 'people like that' |
Sorry, Joe- you’re a balanced and knowledgable voice on football matters but stating that ‘everyone has moved across to PIP or some disability benefit’ is total nonsense and exposes a lack of knowledge and experience in this area- it’s frustrating to read this anecdotal claim that someone you know, knows someone who is getting 35k in disability benefits, as those of us with experience in this field know that’s literally impossible via disability benefits and are aware of the absolute hell scape that is applying for PIP, the documentation that is required to qualify and subsequently how and why PIP has such a low fraud rate. [Post edited 1 Jul 17:56]
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 18:12 - Jul 1 with 165 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:59 - Jul 1 by leitrimblue |
I still think your father in laws example shows the potential dangers of tightening up the system further.
I also think the problem of people being capable of working but choosing not to and those fiddling the system is a different issue. And I'm not sure tightening up the requirements at the risk of denying people like your father in law who genuinely need this benefit is the answer.
I'm not sure what the solution is for people who are fit for work but choose not.I have sorta friends who choose not to work. They annoy the feck outta me, but I'm not sure what you can do with um.
I employed 1 of this gang a 6-7 years ago. It's a cushy enough job, well paid and with quite good prospects. But she was absolutely shocking, both mentally and physically.
No work ethic, not sure she even understood the principle.
Lucky if she managed a 4 day week, then her attendance got worse to the point she just didn't turn up.
Perhaps some kinda universal credit may be the answer. |
The only reason the system needs tightening up is to weed out dishonest applications.
When my wife broke her neck and damaged her spinal cord she missed out on PIP on age, the date you become eligible fell after her 65th birthday although she was 64 when she was injured.
Attendance Allowance was claimed instead. A Spinal Injury Charity offered to complete the claim for her to make sure she didn’t answer some of the questions in such a way that she received the Lowe level, instead of higher level. Offer was rejected and we completed the 30 page form over several days.
It was clear that those who probably shouldn’t qualify could easily get it with a just a few little white lies. I am aware of people who have worked the system to their advantage.
You undertake to notify the authorities if your condition improves I doubt many people do that. You have to reapply every three years so those little white lies need to be repeated.
When I completed the last form I added an addendum that her condition was never going to improve. Result was instead of getting a letter confirming payment for next three years it was open ended. | |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 18:14 - Jul 1 with 162 views | NthQldITFC |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 14:14 - Jul 1 by BlueForYou |
The answer is …… a General Election. Personally I hoped Labour would be ok, but they’ve proven to be totally pathetic. |
I hoped Starmer's Labour would be OK too, despite advice from better-informed people, closer to the party, but they are proving a pathetic shambles as you say.
I am terrified at the prospect, which Starmer's administration is steering us towards, of a far right and grossly, comically incompetent version of the sort of imbeciles in power in certain local authorities now. Even a fascist ought to think twice about voting Ref*rm, if he has any sense of self-preservation.
Let's give Democratic Socialism a chance while we've got a chance, eh? Fairness and shared responsibility can't be that bad an idea, Shirley. |  |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 18:16 - Jul 1 with 154 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:49 - Jul 1 by Libero |
PIP is not being ‘fiddled’
Sadly there are long standing issues with various third party assessors failing to adequately train staff or implement a suitable procedure for assessments- this is why so many go to tribunal and why so many tribunals win. There are also issues with the assessment itself, but that’s a long and boring conversation. It’s next to impossible to ‘fiddle’ due to the uncharitable nature in which it’s marked- I know many many disabled people who have been rejected.
Entitlements for PIP have raised dramatically since there was a mass disabling event, the pandemic. Not only did the event itself disable people but it disrupted a number of people who were already disabled and functioning on a very delicate balance- lockdowns etc disrupted this and effected their ability to function and now there are lots of disabled people who previously didn’t claim PIP who need to just to survive.
It’s also worth mentioning that PIP is traditionally one of the most underclaimed benefits.
If you need any advice on how to appropriately fill out the form for your Father in Law drop me a DM anytime- in one of my previous roles I supported many disabled people with their claims and have my own personal experience too. |
Our recovery from covid is worse than our neighbours. The rise also started pre covid. | | | |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 18:22 - Jul 1 with 142 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 16:41 - Jul 1 by DJR |
Pensions make up 48% of welfare spending, which is predicted by the OBR to rise to 49% by 2028- 2029.
I think it would be harsh on poorer pensioners to remove the triple lock but I can see the case for doing so for those above a certain level of income (£30,000? higher rate taxpayers?).
The problem is that the government so cocked up WFPs that this is just not an area where it will dare to tread. [Post edited 1 Jul 17:53]
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It should be noted that around 50% of those claiming the new state pension do not receive the full amount but it is topped up, if they have no other source of income by Pension Credit. | |
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| Starmer's bill and two party system on 18:28 - Jul 1 with 121 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Starmer's bill and two party system on 17:14 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
I guess what seems to have changed is that whilst JSA has tightened up, everyone has moved across to PIP or some form of disability benefit - your friend should be getting JSA at however much it is a week but when you are on disability for a lot of people the amounts you can get make finding work impossible because the jobs don't exist to cover the level of benefits you receive.
A girl I was away with at the weekend, her bro's wife fiddles it all - end sup with about £35k a year, you aren't going to find a job that pays that sort of money in Ipswich or Clacton or Felixstowe where we were all from this weekend. They don't exist for 'people like that' |
If you're aware of someone fraudulently claiming benefits, why don't you report it? The relevant agencies probably don't have the resources to do as much investigating as they would want, so actively being given leads will be a massive help.
Anyone can anonymously report benefit fraud here: https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud | | | |
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