| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? 08:08 - Jul 14 with 1349 views | NthQldITFC |
Listening to discussion of the Met Office report this morning, I have no doubt that most of us will just ignore the science.
Makes me wonder how different entities would have dealt with the problem at a couple of different points in history, had CO2 levels been then what they are now. If we said AGW came to a certain level of public awareness in about 1995 (for the sake of argument), how would 'we' have gone about things:
* 50 years earlier, 1945 (assumed Second World War, British bulldog, Churchillian mentality)
* 150 years earlier, 1845 (assumed Victorian science- and engineering-led pragmatic mentality)
I would say that three different entities (Public, Government, Corporate) might well have reacted in entirely different ways:
Public
Today - vast swathes of the public are so engrossed in striving to consume or compete for social media purposes that they just won't listen to science or act.
WWII - was the all-in-it together attitude real enough in Britain (or elsewhere) to make a self-sacrificial public consensus forceful enough to drive policy change?
Victorians - was the respect for science a force which would have demanded proper action?
Government
Today - childish bickering, focus on surviving one or two parliamentary terms, fire-fighting, manipulative media and pseudo media.
WWII - would the wartime coalition have been pragmatic enough to face an much bigger issue than Hitler with unity, long-term planning and tolerant cooperation?
Victorians - in an era of British domination, could our government have actually driven a worldwide response, led by the science?
Corporate
Today - shameless, irresponsible, aggressive, profit at ANY cost environment where failures and cheats are paid off or moved sideways.
WWII - co-operating with government, but any different underneath? Less aggressive, perhaps? Not so shameless?
Victorians - I presume there was a much stronger imperative to 'do the decent thing', but how deep did that run?
Hell of a lot of assumptions there, I know.
On the arbitrary timelines I've come up with, where would we be in 1975, or 1875?
TLDR: What the fk is the matter with us?
|  |
| |  |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 08:19 - Jul 14 with 1286 views | bluelagos |
Are you in Aus? This morning on ITV (Good morning Britain) the weather girl (Who's like a proper brainbox) did a whole bit on the impact of climate change.
She regularly does - talking about increased frequency and impact of weather events (like the heat wave)
So whilst we are very slow to react - I think there is hope that the message will get through.
We also have a govt looking to reinstate subsidies for electric vehicles (in the news today)
So I don't think it's all doom and gloom - whilst accepting the issues are real and incredibly important to address. |  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 08:35 - Jul 14 with 1238 views | NthQldITFC |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 08:19 - Jul 14 by bluelagos |
Are you in Aus? This morning on ITV (Good morning Britain) the weather girl (Who's like a proper brainbox) did a whole bit on the impact of climate change.
She regularly does - talking about increased frequency and impact of weather events (like the heat wave)
So whilst we are very slow to react - I think there is hope that the message will get through.
We also have a govt looking to reinstate subsidies for electric vehicles (in the news today)
So I don't think it's all doom and gloom - whilst accepting the issues are real and incredibly important to address. |
No, UK.
The still increasing level of energy stored in our oceans and atmosphere is like an accelerating juggernaut bearing down on us with a pissed driver playing Candy Crush on his phone and leaking hydraulic fluid from its brake lines.
Talking about reinstating subsidies for electric vehicles whilst tickling the b0ll0cks of corporate greed and fellating the fantasy of perpetual growth is like building a barricade of cardboard boxes to save ourselves from the impact.
It really is all doom and gloom when you have a think about the cascading threats we face, and embracing that reality is the first step towards fighting back as a way of, maybe, mitigating it a little. [Post edited 14 Jul 8:35]
| |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:03 - Jul 14 with 1053 views | WeWereZombies |
I think for your World War Two scenario you have to ask yourself whether Hitler would have cared about Global Warming when he had a Thousand Year Reich to get going, would Stalin have been persuadable when he had the Communist revolution to propagate and famine to brush under the carpet, would Hirohito have come on board ? Mao stopped his Long March for this ? That's before we get to the new World power and a United States still recovering from the Wall Street crash.
For the Victorian scenario I think you have to remember that Darwin was still being ridiculed here, there and everywhere. I suspect the media of the time was just as pervasive as it is today, albeit on a slower scale. |  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:32 - Jul 14 with 990 views | Benters |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 08:19 - Jul 14 by bluelagos |
Are you in Aus? This morning on ITV (Good morning Britain) the weather girl (Who's like a proper brainbox) did a whole bit on the impact of climate change.
She regularly does - talking about increased frequency and impact of weather events (like the heat wave)
So whilst we are very slow to react - I think there is hope that the message will get through.
We also have a govt looking to reinstate subsidies for electric vehicles (in the news today)
So I don't think it's all doom and gloom - whilst accepting the issues are real and incredibly important to address. |
Yes Laura is very knowledgeable and has wrote books on the subject I believe.
But that doesn’t stop her from boarding a plane and flying down to French Guiana to watch a rocket take off with a new weather satellite.
Funny that. [Post edited 14 Jul 11:33]
|  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:32 - Jul 14 with 987 views | OldFart71 |
If the production of Co2 is indeed responsible for our changing weather Millibands net Zero will have no effect on the world unless countries like the US, China, India etc also does the same. But they won't. China builds around 10 new coal fired power stations per year. Trump says " Drill Baby drill"
How will we stop both the gulf stream and hot air coming up from Africa.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing anything about it, but Milliband is delusional if he thinks he can do a King Canute and turn the tide on his own. |  | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 12:00 - Jul 14 with 926 views | Churchman |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:32 - Jul 14 by OldFart71 |
If the production of Co2 is indeed responsible for our changing weather Millibands net Zero will have no effect on the world unless countries like the US, China, India etc also does the same. But they won't. China builds around 10 new coal fired power stations per year. Trump says " Drill Baby drill"
How will we stop both the gulf stream and hot air coming up from Africa.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing anything about it, but Milliband is delusional if he thinks he can do a King Canute and turn the tide on his own. |
The U.K. is responsible for less than 1% of world CO2 emissions. The land mass of the U.K. is 0.05% of the earth’s surface. Zealot Milliband can have everyone eating roots and berries and living like cavemen and it won’t make a blind bit of difference to climate change without other countries doing it.
Milliband thinks it’s a good idea to cover everywhere including his own roof with solar panels made in China using fossil fuels and cheap labour before sending them round the world in an oil powered tanker. Politics and principle before economic sanity?
We have the most expensive energy in the world and that won’t change. So we are taking a lead. Whoopee. I’m sure those right thinking nice men Putin, Trump, Xi and Modi will see the light and follow Milliband’s lead. Maybe not.
Of course reducing reliance on fossil fuels is a good thing. The planet is for future generations and the current people of the world are doing it no favours. Recycling is a good thing too. But it has to be done the right way. Forcing it in a way that sees for example Luton’s Vauxhall workers thrown on the dole or coke imported from China or somewhere to fuel a steelworks because we refuse to mine it in Cumbria isn’t the right way.
Neither is tearing up the countryside in the Pennines and covering it in foreign made windmills to power a couple of lightbulbs. And before his crowd come round with the pitchforks and flaming torches because Mrs C has a petrol powered Yaris, perhaps they should take a good look at the ongoing clearance of the Amazon rain forests. Perhaps subsidise the locals there who have no economic choice rather than people buying electric boxes from China.
Just a view. I agree re Milliband. His one man crusade isn’t going to work. Btw, we definitely do not want to stop the Gulf Stream. It’s what gives the U.K. a moderating Maritime Climate that’s warmer in winter, cooler in summer usually. London is on the same degree of latitude as Moscow. |  | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 12:21 - Jul 14 with 900 views | NthQldITFC |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:32 - Jul 14 by OldFart71 |
If the production of Co2 is indeed responsible for our changing weather Millibands net Zero will have no effect on the world unless countries like the US, China, India etc also does the same. But they won't. China builds around 10 new coal fired power stations per year. Trump says " Drill Baby drill"
How will we stop both the gulf stream and hot air coming up from Africa.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing anything about it, but Milliband is delusional if he thinks he can do a King Canute and turn the tide on his own. |
That 'If' at the start, man... really?
As for the "I'm not doing anything if nobody else does" attitude. Who is going to make a difference if nobody does? | |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 13:24 - Jul 14 with 840 views | Guthrum |
On your point about government in WWII, the Welfare State was planned and designed during the War by the Coalition, including some of the men who implemented it afterwards. The conflict did not stop them doing that, because there was a consensus from all sides that something needed to be done. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 13:32 - Jul 14 with 819 views | NthQldITFC |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 13:24 - Jul 14 by Guthrum |
On your point about government in WWII, the Welfare State was planned and designed during the War by the Coalition, including some of the men who implemented it afterwards. The conflict did not stop them doing that, because there was a consensus from all sides that something needed to be done. |
How much, if at all, was it down to Churchill having to get Atlee on board for the coalition?
It's a good model for co-operation either way, but not something I could see our politicians today doing, whether 'before the war' (now) or 'during the war' (crop failures, AMOC failing, water wars etc.).
I think it illustrates the difference 80 years makes in attitudes in politics, that co-operation achieved so much then, in deep strife, but you just can't see any possibility of that happening now. | |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 14:17 - Jul 14 with 780 views | Churchman |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 13:32 - Jul 14 by NthQldITFC |
How much, if at all, was it down to Churchill having to get Atlee on board for the coalition?
It's a good model for co-operation either way, but not something I could see our politicians today doing, whether 'before the war' (now) or 'during the war' (crop failures, AMOC failing, water wars etc.).
I think it illustrates the difference 80 years makes in attitudes in politics, that co-operation achieved so much then, in deep strife, but you just can't see any possibility of that happening now. |
I don’t think Churchill and some of the tories were against the principle or the Welfare State, just some of the details. He certainly didn’t do anything against it when re-elected after Attlee.
He like many of older people in the 1940s might have been shameless old Victorians; the upper crust sustained by privilege but after WW1 and 2, the Depression and the country exhausted and economically broken, many saw change as inevitable and desirable.
In that sense, they did see greater good and were acting to better the wellbeing of a battered people to a far greater extent than politicians do now. Let’s face it, what is good for the people is least of government priorities these days.
Party first, second and third providing it benefits those supporting it. The wartime coalition was co-operation in a time of desperation and a hapless leader in Chamberlain. But as soon as the war was won and before it ended, the coalition was over and Churchill thrown out on his @rse.
Politicians were not above being blinded by their ideals, hopes and party politics. Let’s not forget Labour voted against re-armament right up to 1939.
Overall, human nature doesn’t change. Greed, exploitation, corruption were alive and well long before Tudor times. Nothing has changed, though any morsels of doing what’s right for the people, like the creation of the Welfare State, has long gone in the bin. | | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 15:36 - Jul 14 with 707 views | Ryorry |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 13:24 - Jul 14 by Guthrum |
On your point about government in WWII, the Welfare State was planned and designed during the War by the Coalition, including some of the men who implemented it afterwards. The conflict did not stop them doing that, because there was a consensus from all sides that something needed to be done. |
TWTD.
Even in the 70s there was awareness though. Remember Rachel Carson's 1960s seminal book 'Silent Spring'? I remember a green newspaper reader's comment from then - "I love Planet Earth, depressed we're wrecking it". But we've carried on anyway.
We got together as a global species to ban CFCs, with great success - the hole in the ozone layer closed up, so it can be done ...
This may be unpopular, but I also think Margaret Thatcher as a trained scientist & forceful leader, much though I loathed her, would have been far more effective at tackling CC now than any world leaders currently around. |  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 16:09 - Jul 14 with 681 views | RadioOrwell |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:32 - Jul 14 by Benters |
Yes Laura is very knowledgeable and has wrote books on the subject I believe.
But that doesn’t stop her from boarding a plane and flying down to French Guiana to watch a rocket take off with a new weather satellite.
Funny that. [Post edited 14 Jul 11:33]
|
good grief. what an utterly moronic point you managed to drag up from the offices of the Daily Mail. |  | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 17:35 - Jul 14 with 622 views | Benters |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 16:09 - Jul 14 by RadioOrwell |
good grief. what an utterly moronic point you managed to drag up from the offices of the Daily Mail. |
Nothing to do with the Daily Mail she reported it on the show.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she wore her just stop oil T-shirt on the plane 🤓 | |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 17:54 - Jul 14 with 601 views | RadioOrwell |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 17:35 - Jul 14 by Benters |
Nothing to do with the Daily Mail she reported it on the show.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she wore her just stop oil T-shirt on the plane 🤓 |
live in a cave - eat grass - wear banana leaves over your parts - then and only then can you have an opinion on climate change.
grow up | | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 18:00 - Jul 14 with 572 views | Powrigan |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 17:54 - Jul 14 by RadioOrwell |
live in a cave - eat grass - wear banana leaves over your parts - then and only then can you have an opinion on climate change.
grow up |
sounds like the dream life of most on here!!! [Post edited 14 Jul 18:08]
|  | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 18:17 - Jul 14 with 550 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 18:00 - Jul 14 by Powrigan |
sounds like the dream life of most on here!!! [Post edited 14 Jul 18:08]
|
Can we only use the leaves, or can we go all in with the bananas? Asking for a friend. |  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 18:40 - Jul 14 with 527 views | ArmaghBlue |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 18:17 - Jul 14 by Swansea_Blue |
Can we only use the leaves, or can we go all in with the bananas? Asking for a friend. |
Banana’s would be a reward for good behaviour |  | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 20:07 - Jul 14 with 459 views | mellowblue |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 11:32 - Jul 14 by OldFart71 |
If the production of Co2 is indeed responsible for our changing weather Millibands net Zero will have no effect on the world unless countries like the US, China, India etc also does the same. But they won't. China builds around 10 new coal fired power stations per year. Trump says " Drill Baby drill"
How will we stop both the gulf stream and hot air coming up from Africa.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing anything about it, but Milliband is delusional if he thinks he can do a King Canute and turn the tide on his own. |
it is actually 100 coal fired power stations per year built in China. But China is so fast moving that when it does grasp the nettle of climate change, it can react fast e.g the roll out of HS railways and mega cities built in record time. The smog and air pollution that was a massive issue 15-20 years ago has been tackled and reduced, ironically having a knock on effect of higher ground temperatures due to the action of the air pollution effectively shielding the earth from the sun rays. I would personally be more concerned about India and Africa. | | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 03:47 - Jul 15 with 353 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
When I took GCSE Geography Acid rain was all in fashion. |  | | |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 04:26 - Jul 15 with 329 views | Benters |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 17:54 - Jul 14 by RadioOrwell |
live in a cave - eat grass - wear banana leaves over your parts - then and only then can you have an opinion on climate change.
grow up |
Is she your mum or something?
As for living in a cave if it had a nice view I wouldn’t mind thank you. | |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 05:50 - Jul 15 with 295 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 03:47 - Jul 15 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
When I took GCSE Geography Acid rain was all in fashion. |
Identified by scientists, some people disputed it as a thing, Governments take advice from scientists, work collaboratively with other countries, put environmental regulations in place which help to reduce it |  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 07:12 - Jul 15 with 249 views | NthQldITFC |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 03:47 - Jul 15 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
When I took GCSE Geography Acid rain was all in fashion. |
Not sure if this a fingers in ears, "La-la-la-la-la" post or what it is? Apologies if you are conscious. | |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 07:49 - Jul 15 with 212 views | MVBlue |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 08:35 - Jul 14 by NthQldITFC |
No, UK.
The still increasing level of energy stored in our oceans and atmosphere is like an accelerating juggernaut bearing down on us with a pissed driver playing Candy Crush on his phone and leaking hydraulic fluid from its brake lines.
Talking about reinstating subsidies for electric vehicles whilst tickling the b0ll0cks of corporate greed and fellating the fantasy of perpetual growth is like building a barricade of cardboard boxes to save ourselves from the impact.
It really is all doom and gloom when you have a think about the cascading threats we face, and embracing that reality is the first step towards fighting back as a way of, maybe, mitigating it a little. [Post edited 14 Jul 8:35]
|
you came back from Aus then?
I did 3 years in Oz.
In fact climate change is causing just as big issues there. |  |
| |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 08:58 - Jul 15 with 154 views | NthQldITFC |
| Climate change: How would we have coped in a different era? on 07:49 - Jul 15 by MVBlue |
you came back from Aus then?
I did 3 years in Oz.
In fact climate change is causing just as big issues there. |
I never lived there, just used to visit a lot, and yes that's some baggage in terms of carbon emissions I was responsible for 
Been breathing very gently ever since and not flown since 2017. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
