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This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:19 - Sep 14 by noggin
Well the majority want to stop the boats, but not because people are drowning. It's dangerous nationalism and there have been no calls for the WHITE Ukranians to be returned. Yeah but it's not racism, right?
The majority of the Ukrainians are women and children.
They have sought Asylum whilst the men are fighting the Russians.
If the majority of people arriving in boats were women and children you would see a more sympathetic view I am sure.
As the people arriving are 87% men it screams economic migrants.
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I very much doubt that.... on 06:31 - Sep 15 with 1679 views
It's clear that there are a depressing number of overtly racist abhorrent people who have had their bullsht normalised, and an even greater number of cowardly fckwits who legitimise and excuse the scumbags (this forum being a perfect microcosm of this).
However, whilst I completely get the sentiment in your final para, I have to believe that there are enough decent people to ensure it can't be this way forever. It just can't.
Can I provide you a little reassurance on your last paragraph - noting that this comes from an Australian perspective.
Currently all federal and state governments in Australia - with the exception of Tasmania - are currently run by the Australian Labor party - which is the centre left party. This is largely because we have compulsory voting at all elections and the main opposition (the Coalition Liberal National Party) have started to move further to the right in the last 4-5 years.
The impact of compulsory voting is that the silent majority have to vote, they can't abstain - and when push comes to shove, they voted for the Labor Party in a landslide at the recent federal election. Given the choice between voting back in an underwhelming left of centre party with a decent but vanilla leader over a Murdoch backed Trump-lite former policeman as leader of a party embracing division, climate change denial and modest anti-immigration rhetoric - the population at large voted for the non-racist path.
I have to believe that the majority of the UK population are watching the march yesterday shaking their head and turning off their TV in dismay.
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This Unite the Kingdom march on 07:35 - Sep 15 with 1553 views
This Unite the Kingdom march on 05:08 - Sep 15 by onceablue
The majority of the Ukrainians are women and children.
They have sought Asylum whilst the men are fighting the Russians.
If the majority of people arriving in boats were women and children you would see a more sympathetic view I am sure.
As the people arriving are 87% men it screams economic migrants.
Statists say the majority of them are genuine refugees.
You know why the majority are young men. There are no legal routes meaning a long and dangerous journey across oceans and borders. There are no flights put on to transport women and children to safety, like there is from Ukraine.
Until their applications are heard, they are legally in the UK, according to the asylum laws Britain signed up to.
This Unite the Kingdom march on 07:35 - Sep 15 by noggin
Statists say the majority of them are genuine refugees.
You know why the majority are young men. There are no legal routes meaning a long and dangerous journey across oceans and borders. There are no flights put on to transport women and children to safety, like there is from Ukraine.
Until their applications are heard, they are legally in the UK, according to the asylum laws Britain signed up to.
[Post edited 15 Sep 7:45]
If once a blue was in genuine distress, it appears he would send his granny and his kids on the dangerous path to seek asylum for the family, rather than get on the road himself.
I don’t believe for a minute that there’d be more tolerance if the figures were reversed and mainly women. We’ve had protests outside hotels used to temporarily house women and children. Most of the anti-asylum sentiment is driven by Islamophobia.
This Unite the Kingdom march on 05:08 - Sep 15 by onceablue
The majority of the Ukrainians are women and children.
They have sought Asylum whilst the men are fighting the Russians.
If the majority of people arriving in boats were women and children you would see a more sympathetic view I am sure.
As the people arriving are 87% men it screams economic migrants.
If you were living in a country thousands of miles away and you're facing persecution or death, would you send your granny and your 12 year old daughter to make the dangerous journey alone? If you would then fair enough, but I think most people wouldn't as they'd probably not make it, or if they did they'd be so scarred from the experience they wouldn't be the same people you sent off on that journey.
The Ukraine comparison doesn't work, we opened up a scheme specifically for Ukrainians that made it easy and safe for them to come here. If we did the same for other countries, we wouldn't be getting anything like the same number of small boat crossings. People risk their lives doing that because they have no other way of coming into the country and making an asylum claim. Anyone wanting to stop the boats should be supporting the establishment of safe, legal routes for asylum seekers. They shouldn't be supporting Farage and his empty rhetoric.
It's as clear as day Swailsey, to anyone that wants to see it, that the public are being played by those that want to preserve and increase their wealth by being encouraged to kick at those even further down the food chain than themselves. Musk, Trump, Farage the defenders of the common man along with their social media influencer grafter lieutenants are playing a blinder and the ignorant are so willing to believe their lazy narratives while being mugged.
Believe me, I have been in that place you allude to in your last paragraph and made some stupid choices while trying to hide from the world you describe. Sometimes it makes sense for your Self preservation to make your World smaller, find beauty where you can, be with compassionate, empathic caring people, get into nature and leave the fools to their madness as best you can. Be good to yourself Swailsey and to those around you and leave the haters to their hate.
"It's as clear as day Swailsey, to anyone that wants to see it, that the public are being played by those that want to preserve and increase their wealth by being encouraged to kick at those even further down the food chain than themselves."
This is exactly what's happening. Immigrants are not forcing property prices up, so that our children will never afford to buy a home.
Immigrants are not monopolising the sale of consumer goods and services, then transferring profits out of the country, without paying taxes.
Immigrants are not cutting funding for public services.
Immigrants are not the employers that are offering low salaries and below inflation wage rises, meaning workers have to claim benefits, in order to afford to live.
Immigrants didn't sell of the stock of council housing, then fail to replace them with new affordable housing stock.
All of these are why people are struggling to house and feed their families. So why aren't we protesting outside establishments owned by Amazon, Tesla, Google and Starbucks? Why aren't we protesting outside parliament, demanding the government stop, then reverse, this huge transfer of wealth?
Hope Not Hate’s review of the day. The list of a speakers is quite something.
“Seeing such a big crowd cheering speeches that called for banning all public expression of non-Christian religions, demanded the “remigration” of legal migrants, pushed Covid conspiracy theories, and claimed Britain is being “invaded” and its population “replaced” is unprecedented.”
This Unite the Kingdom march on 07:35 - Sep 15 by noggin
Statists say the majority of them are genuine refugees.
You know why the majority are young men. There are no legal routes meaning a long and dangerous journey across oceans and borders. There are no flights put on to transport women and children to safety, like there is from Ukraine.
Until their applications are heard, they are legally in the UK, according to the asylum laws Britain signed up to.
[Post edited 15 Sep 7:45]
If as you are suggesting then the men come first and the women and children follow why would you leave your loved ones.
I know I couldn’t do that.
To think of my children in a war torn country without me to protect them is something I could not do
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This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:47 - Sep 15 with 1270 views
This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:03 - Sep 15 by vapour_trail
If once a blue was in genuine distress, it appears he would send his granny and his kids on the dangerous path to seek asylum for the family, rather than get on the road himself.
What a strange bloke.
As I said I would stay at home and protect my family.
Certainly wouldn’t send my granny or kids either.
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This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:47 - Sep 15 with 1280 views
This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:37 - Sep 15 by Swansea_Blue
Hope Not Hate’s review of the day. The list of a speakers is quite something.
“Seeing such a big crowd cheering speeches that called for banning all public expression of non-Christian religions, demanded the “remigration” of legal migrants, pushed Covid conspiracy theories, and claimed Britain is being “invaded” and its population “replaced” is unprecedented.”
This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:37 - Sep 15 by Swansea_Blue
Hope Not Hate’s review of the day. The list of a speakers is quite something.
“Seeing such a big crowd cheering speeches that called for banning all public expression of non-Christian religions, demanded the “remigration” of legal migrants, pushed Covid conspiracy theories, and claimed Britain is being “invaded” and its population “replaced” is unprecedented.”
This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:47 - Sep 15 by Whos_blue
Yeah, but if you didn't listen to the speeches, the march itself was full of good people including a bishop or something.
It’s quite disgusting isn’t it. Luckily for everyone else it wasn’t just Islamophobia on display. The Jews got some attention. Even Bhuddists, because everyone knows we’re undergoing a Bhuddist invasion .
These are vile hateful people showing the UK in it’s worst possible light.
The March and this current climate is sewing division in places I never expected to see it. This may sound a trivial anecdote but I just read a face book post from a black DJ I know.
Some background. I’ve been following the soul scene for decades. I go to soul weekenders up and down the country and abroad. The mix of DJ’s is roughly 60/40 white/black. The attendees are mostly middle aged couples with a mix that is roughly 80/20 white/black. In all of the years I’ve been going to weekenders and all-nighters there has never been a single occasion where I have seen trouble. Everyone who goes is there for their shared love of black music. It’s mostly a modern soul scene rather than northern soul so we don’t get the skinheads.
The organisers bring over acts from the states to play a set and they are often surprised by the make up of the audience as they aren’t used to playing to a white crowd.
Anyway, my DJ pal posted something along the following lines. That he’s noticed many of the “so called soul loving’ people of the Caucasian profile” on his timeline showing support for Saturday’s march. And he’s sickened by it. And for them not to come to his booth with “smiling’ faces requesting the O’Jays”.
That’s followed up by replies from other people of colour saying that “they love black music but not black people and have never cared about the oppression”.
Obviously we don’t just spend all the time dancing. I’ve had conversations with these men and women and heard the stories of terrible racism they faced. Many of them either came here from the West Indies as kids or were born here to migrants who came over in the 50’s and 60’s. But it’s never dwelled on or expanded.
As I said in my opener, it’s a trivial anecdote but it’s got me thinking that maybe deep down the black people I have known for years, and call my friends, have never really been comfortable with the white people following the scene. That there has been decades long resentment that they’ve never shown. It’s also got me thinking about the flag. It’s our flag and my view is that we should reclaim it from the racists. My avatar is a small fairly futile attempt to do so. A bit if virtue signalling, for want of a better phrase. But what does that flag mean to the many people of colour in this country who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s when the flag was appropriated by the National Front and BNP? Is it too late to claim the flag back as a flag of unity?
And despite my lifelong attitude of not seeing colour it’s obvious that the black people I know do see colour. And not in a positive way.
Anyway, a bit of a ramble and I said it’s a trivial anecdote but the post and replies from what I have always thought of as an integrated scene have knocked me back a bit and it’s patently obvious that there is so much more to do in order to have a truly United Kingdom.
This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:43 - Sep 15 by onceablue
If as you are suggesting then the men come first and the women and children follow why would you leave your loved ones.
I know I couldn’t do that.
To think of my children in a war torn country without me to protect them is something I could not do
And that’s what many do. My work colleague is Syrian. He and his family fled to Jordan, where they were housed in a tent on a refugee camp. He, being the eldest son, then mate the journey to Europe. He has now settled in Norway, speaks the language fluently and works. It took him 7 years to gain Norwegian citizenship, in which time he never saw his family. They are still in Jordan but he, at least, can now visit them and send money to give them a slightly more comfortable life.
This Unite the Kingdom march on 08:37 - Sep 15 by Swansea_Blue
Hope Not Hate’s review of the day. The list of a speakers is quite something.
“Seeing such a big crowd cheering speeches that called for banning all public expression of non-Christian religions, demanded the “remigration” of legal migrants, pushed Covid conspiracy theories, and claimed Britain is being “invaded” and its population “replaced” is unprecedented.”
"What I saw at Saturday’s rally was racism, pure and simple. Labour won’t tackle it until we can call it what it is
Silence about the bigotry inherent in events like Tommy Robinson’s march will be seen by the thugs as tacit approval of their message
I have been on a great many political marches in my time. But Saturday’s rally, facing up to Tommy Robinson’s 110,000-strong “unite the kingdom” march in London, was the only one where I actually felt threatened.
I was on the anti-racist counter march and we were outnumbered 20 to one. This was startling: on anti-racist marches, we usually easily outnumber the racists. The march organised by Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, was billed as “a free speech rally”, but free speech in this case seemed to mean people saying anything they wanted about only one subject: immigration.
Some commentators like to say that mobilisations such as this are only expressions of discontent by people who feel a little ignored. If they had been in central London on Saturday and seen the sea of men (and they were nearly all men) defiantly waving their St George’s flags, some of them attacking the police and spitting at people like me, they might want to reconsider that view. The kind of people who were marching usually take exception to being called racists. But it is hard to know what else to call those of them who gathered in the capital to demand mass deportation and insist that black and brown men are a unique threat to white women.
The huge turnout for Robinson’s march was partly a consequence of the online world we now live in. Social media have made this scale of mobilisation so much easier. But discussing the march afterwards with others from the anti-racist rally, we had the sense that there is something dark bubbling up in British society. Organisations that support the victims of race hate crime say that the number of cases is shooting up. Ugly incidents are increasing – only this weekend, in the West Midlands, a Sikh woman was reportedly raped in broad daylight by white men shouting racist abuse including “you don’t belong in this country, get out”."
[Post edited 15 Sep 9:25]
5
I very much doubt that.... on 09:28 - Sep 15 with 1021 views
I very much doubt that.... on 23:39 - Sep 14 by Swailsey
What recent weeks have taught me is that there is a far greater amount of hate apologists out there than I thought (not directed at the post you replied to).
It seems to be in direct response to recent liberations (women’s rights, LGBTQ+, kick it out), because people are upset that those they marginalised were able to feel safer.
In many ways it feels as though we are going backwards now, and are descending into a thoroughly unpleasant world to live in, unless you choose to bury your head in the sand to other people’s suffering - which just seems so selfish and impossible to me.
It’s enough to make you want to give up any hope for the future and I’m really not sure if I want any part of the world we are living in.
[Post edited 14 Sep 23:40]
I was thinking yesterday much the same as the sentiments in your last paragraph.
But as the saying goes, you can't let the b*ggers win.
EDIT: one positive step might be to donate to Hope Not Hate who do sterling work in this area.
And here's Billy Bragg on the Sheffield leg of his Hope Not Hate tour last year, a couple of days after I saw him at the Islington leg, playing the song that was the highlight of the gig for me.
You can be active with the activists Or sleep in with the sleepers While you're waiting for the Great Leap Forwards.
[Post edited 15 Sep 9:55]
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I very much doubt that.... on 09:48 - Sep 15 with 934 views
I very much doubt that.... on 09:28 - Sep 15 by DJR
I was thinking yesterday much the same as the sentiments in your last paragraph.
But as the saying goes, you can't let the b*ggers win.
EDIT: one positive step might be to donate to Hope Not Hate who do sterling work in this area.
And here's Billy Bragg on the Sheffield leg of his Hope Not Hate tour last year, a couple of days after I saw him at the Islington leg, playing the song that was the highlight of the gig for me.
You can be active with the activists Or sleep in with the sleepers While you're waiting for the Great Leap Forwards.
[Post edited 15 Sep 9:55]
Aye, that post from Swailsy and your words resonate, It weighs heavy with me because my son has high support needs and will probably need a level of care his entire life- what happens when I’m gone and the far right and their apologists are making decisions about his future and care?
Here in the UK people voting for Reform probably don’t know/realise/care that they’re advocating with their intended “Americanised” NHS model and drastic benefits cuts is a return to keeping disabled people out of sight and out of mind, institutionalised and without basic funding, dignity or independence.
It doesn’t matter if we’re taking about the quasi-fascists across the Atlantic or at home, they won’t be happy until every minority has been oppressed.
[Post edited 15 Sep 9:50]
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I very much doubt that.... on 09:58 - Sep 15 with 871 views
I very much doubt that.... on 09:48 - Sep 15 by Libero
Aye, that post from Swailsy and your words resonate, It weighs heavy with me because my son has high support needs and will probably need a level of care his entire life- what happens when I’m gone and the far right and their apologists are making decisions about his future and care?
Here in the UK people voting for Reform probably don’t know/realise/care that they’re advocating with their intended “Americanised” NHS model and drastic benefits cuts is a return to keeping disabled people out of sight and out of mind, institutionalised and without basic funding, dignity or independence.
It doesn’t matter if we’re taking about the quasi-fascists across the Atlantic or at home, they won’t be happy until every minority has been oppressed.
[Post edited 15 Sep 9:50]
This Labour government has already cut the adoption and special guardianship support fund (ASGSF), which as my partner will testify as an Occupational Therapist, is having a material impact on children with SEND. Reform would no doubt make this situation even worse.
1
I very much doubt that.... on 10:00 - Sep 15 with 856 views
I very much doubt that.... on 09:48 - Sep 15 by Libero
Aye, that post from Swailsy and your words resonate, It weighs heavy with me because my son has high support needs and will probably need a level of care his entire life- what happens when I’m gone and the far right and their apologists are making decisions about his future and care?
Here in the UK people voting for Reform probably don’t know/realise/care that they’re advocating with their intended “Americanised” NHS model and drastic benefits cuts is a return to keeping disabled people out of sight and out of mind, institutionalised and without basic funding, dignity or independence.
It doesn’t matter if we’re taking about the quasi-fascists across the Atlantic or at home, they won’t be happy until every minority has been oppressed.
[Post edited 15 Sep 9:50]
As I mentioned on another thread the intention is to get people focused on emotional trigger issues, and side-track the issues (such as health and social services) that really affect people's lives.
3
I very much doubt that.... on 10:03 - Sep 15 with 839 views
I very much doubt that.... on 09:58 - Sep 15 by CoachRob
This Labour government has already cut the adoption and special guardianship support fund (ASGSF), which as my partner will testify as an Occupational Therapist, is having a material impact on children with SEND. Reform would no doubt make this situation even worse.
I’m not defending Labour mate- they’re just Rank Tories in red ties.
We need to take a drastic new inclusive approach here in the UK before it gets as out of line as it is in the US, but there is a distinct lack of leadership and as highlighted a few weeks ago by Gary’s Economics, the salience and shared story telling in our society and politics is almost non-existent.
We need morally good people who can deliver simple inclusive messaging that invites in the people voting for Reform while simultaneously making it clear why that Reform and other quasi-fascist groups stand for is abhorrent and wrong and will only serve to harm all. I’m not optimistic about it happening.
[Post edited 15 Sep 10:04]
2
This Unite the Kingdom march on 10:30 - Sep 15 with 724 views
This Unite the Kingdom march on 09:09 - Sep 15 by GlasgowBlue
The March and this current climate is sewing division in places I never expected to see it. This may sound a trivial anecdote but I just read a face book post from a black DJ I know.
Some background. I’ve been following the soul scene for decades. I go to soul weekenders up and down the country and abroad. The mix of DJ’s is roughly 60/40 white/black. The attendees are mostly middle aged couples with a mix that is roughly 80/20 white/black. In all of the years I’ve been going to weekenders and all-nighters there has never been a single occasion where I have seen trouble. Everyone who goes is there for their shared love of black music. It’s mostly a modern soul scene rather than northern soul so we don’t get the skinheads.
The organisers bring over acts from the states to play a set and they are often surprised by the make up of the audience as they aren’t used to playing to a white crowd.
Anyway, my DJ pal posted something along the following lines. That he’s noticed many of the “so called soul loving’ people of the Caucasian profile” on his timeline showing support for Saturday’s march. And he’s sickened by it. And for them not to come to his booth with “smiling’ faces requesting the O’Jays”.
That’s followed up by replies from other people of colour saying that “they love black music but not black people and have never cared about the oppression”.
Obviously we don’t just spend all the time dancing. I’ve had conversations with these men and women and heard the stories of terrible racism they faced. Many of them either came here from the West Indies as kids or were born here to migrants who came over in the 50’s and 60’s. But it’s never dwelled on or expanded.
As I said in my opener, it’s a trivial anecdote but it’s got me thinking that maybe deep down the black people I have known for years, and call my friends, have never really been comfortable with the white people following the scene. That there has been decades long resentment that they’ve never shown. It’s also got me thinking about the flag. It’s our flag and my view is that we should reclaim it from the racists. My avatar is a small fairly futile attempt to do so. A bit if virtue signalling, for want of a better phrase. But what does that flag mean to the many people of colour in this country who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s when the flag was appropriated by the National Front and BNP? Is it too late to claim the flag back as a flag of unity?
And despite my lifelong attitude of not seeing colour it’s obvious that the black people I know do see colour. And not in a positive way.
Anyway, a bit of a ramble and I said it’s a trivial anecdote but the post and replies from what I have always thought of as an integrated scene have knocked me back a bit and it’s patently obvious that there is so much more to do in order to have a truly United Kingdom.
Let's hope it never reaches the Edwin Starr in Clacton 30 odd years ago stage. How people can love the music but then hate the people creating it is beyond me.
1
I very much doubt that.... on 13:09 - Sep 15 with 432 views
I very much doubt that.... on 08:21 - Sep 15 by noggin
"It's as clear as day Swailsey, to anyone that wants to see it, that the public are being played by those that want to preserve and increase their wealth by being encouraged to kick at those even further down the food chain than themselves."
This is exactly what's happening. Immigrants are not forcing property prices up, so that our children will never afford to buy a home.
Immigrants are not monopolising the sale of consumer goods and services, then transferring profits out of the country, without paying taxes.
Immigrants are not cutting funding for public services.
Immigrants are not the employers that are offering low salaries and below inflation wage rises, meaning workers have to claim benefits, in order to afford to live.
Immigrants didn't sell of the stock of council housing, then fail to replace them with new affordable housing stock.
All of these are why people are struggling to house and feed their families. So why aren't we protesting outside establishments owned by Amazon, Tesla, Google and Starbucks? Why aren't we protesting outside parliament, demanding the government stop, then reverse, this huge transfer of wealth?
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