| The French health system 18:10 - Oct 13 with 2174 views | DJR |
I have a British friend who lives in France. When we met a year or so ago he said he wouldn't return to the UK because of its health system.
I met him again today and he showed me why.
There is a French app similar to the NHS app. You can put into it whatever health requirement you need and your address. It then gives you a list of places you can go to which also indicates their availability.
On the assumption that he had got from his doctor a note saying he need an MRI scan for an issue with his abdomen, he put into the app that requirement and it offered him an appointment next day at a location not far from him.
Apparently, in France most of these services are provided privately but things like scans and blood tests don't take place in hospitals. Instead there are private clinics which perform this function.
The system is different in the sense that people are expected to make a contribution to their treatment but from what he said the cost is is much cheaper than the equivalent in private hospitals in the UK. And those with limited income don't pay the full contribution or anything at all.
My wife's sister lives in Germany and the system is much the same with problems sorted out in a fraction of time compared to the UK.
It does make me think that we ought to think the unthinkable when it comes to the NHS but part of the problem is that the UK doesn't have the number of beds, doctors, MRI equipment etc as other systems have in abundance, so we are starting at a disadvantage. In addition, the NHS has become something of religion with talk of radical reform probably politically out of the question.
[Post edited 13 Oct 18:22]
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| The French health system on 18:40 - Oct 13 with 1815 views | jasondozzell |
We just need honest conversations and politicians who have principles and who also treat everyone like grown ups.
With everyone living longer, more complex treatment options, more comorbidiies to manage and high demand, we need to be clear about what we can do and where we should prioritise. That means frank conversations.
We need to actually fix and fund social care. We need to fund hospitals. Not through PFI but through tax.
The NHS is rightly a religion - universal healthcare free at point of use is a great achievement. We do not want two tier systems or to become America. Any insurance system will create that.
We all need to pay more tax.
In the end, when you're ill, nothing else matters. All the nonsense about moaning about tax, the Thatcherite selfishness, the Daily Mail spite about others, it all means nothing. You are vulnerable and you need someone to care for you.
Hospitals and healthcare are amazing things. But we treat them like services and like brands - it's the Thatcher thing again. We need to be stricter on abuse of the system.
But mostly we need to decide where our priorities lie. Is it chasing money and clout or is it having a health system that cares for all?
A nurse graduating in this country has debt of 56k.
The current government are to the right of most Tory governments in the past.
Some people won't realise what has happened to this country until they get ill. |  | | |
| The French health system on 20:33 - Oct 13 with 1606 views | BloomBlue |
The French and German health systems are part public, part private I believe.
As soon as anyone mentions private here people moan.
I would argue the French & German systems have modernised quicker.
We do need a radical change of the NHS, they is far too much waste. |  | | |
| The French health system on 20:45 - Oct 13 with 1567 views | SuperBlue1998 |
The fact of the matter is the French spend significantly more public money on health than do we. To have that level of care we need to spend substantially more. Ultimately whether that's through individual contributions or tax does not matter - as myriad research in this field has shown. I favour the NHS funding model for fairness reasons, its level of spending thats important though |  | | |
| The French health system on 20:48 - Oct 13 with 1558 views | lurcher |
We have something similar in the Netherlands. I pay about 150 a month for an insurance which includes dental. |  | | |
| The French health system on 21:11 - Oct 13 with 1525 views | DJR |
| The French health system on 18:40 - Oct 13 by jasondozzell |
We just need honest conversations and politicians who have principles and who also treat everyone like grown ups.
With everyone living longer, more complex treatment options, more comorbidiies to manage and high demand, we need to be clear about what we can do and where we should prioritise. That means frank conversations.
We need to actually fix and fund social care. We need to fund hospitals. Not through PFI but through tax.
The NHS is rightly a religion - universal healthcare free at point of use is a great achievement. We do not want two tier systems or to become America. Any insurance system will create that.
We all need to pay more tax.
In the end, when you're ill, nothing else matters. All the nonsense about moaning about tax, the Thatcherite selfishness, the Daily Mail spite about others, it all means nothing. You are vulnerable and you need someone to care for you.
Hospitals and healthcare are amazing things. But we treat them like services and like brands - it's the Thatcher thing again. We need to be stricter on abuse of the system.
But mostly we need to decide where our priorities lie. Is it chasing money and clout or is it having a health system that cares for all?
A nurse graduating in this country has debt of 56k.
The current government are to the right of most Tory governments in the past.
Some people won't realise what has happened to this country until they get ill. |
The last thing I would want is a two-tier system but we already have that at the moment with those who can afford it, whether with or without health insurance, getting treated earlier than if they relied on the NHS.
As regards the French system, this is what Wikipedia says.
"The French health care system is one of universal health care largely financed by government national health insurance.
Most general physicians are in private practice but draw their income from the public insurance funds. These funds, unlike their German counterparts, have never gained self-management responsibility. Instead, the government has taken responsibility for the financial and operational management of health insurance (by setting premium levels related to income and determining the prices of goods and services refunded). The French government generally refunds patients 70% of most health care costs, and 100% in case of costly or long-term ailments. Supplemental coverage may be bought from private insurers, most of them non-profit, mutual insurers. Until 2000, coverage was restricted to those who contributed to social security (generally, workers or retirees), excluding some poor segments of the population. The government of Lionel Jospin put into place universal health coverage and extended the coverage to all those legally resident in France."
Given the cost of treatment that my friend mentioned, it does not seem that the private sector rips people off as is the case in this country, presumably because the government determines the price. For example, he talked about the cost of seeing a specialist being less than 100 Euros when in this country I doubt you'd pay less than £250. Nor would something like PFI come into play as the health facilities are private.
In an ideal world, an adequately funded NHS would be the best of all worlds, but we have had 15 years of spending in no way matching an ageing and growing population with no prospect of people wanting to pay more. It's all rather sad, and makes me wonder if there is another way, if nothing else, people who can afford it paying a little towards the cost of their treatment.
As regards social care, my answer would be a form of statutory health insurance (set at say 1% of income and perhaps called social care insurance) which would meet the costs of an adequately funded social care system, and avoid the lottery of some people struggling for care or losing all their assets to pay for care.
As it is Ed Miliband had some sort of scheme in mind (as did Theresa May) but this is such a short-sighted country with people hostile to paying additional taxes that such schemes never get off the ground. [Post edited 13 Oct 21:33]
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| The French health system on 21:27 - Oct 13 with 1477 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The French health system on 20:33 - Oct 13 by BloomBlue |
The French and German health systems are part public, part private I believe.
As soon as anyone mentions private here people moan.
I would argue the French & German systems have modernised quicker.
We do need a radical change of the NHS, they is far too much waste. |
People are rightly worried about the removal of money out of the system under a more private model, as we’ve seen with all other public services that have been privatised to our detriment. And indeed within the NHS itself, for example the huge private debt payments for PFI-funded infrastructure. Private involvement obviously works under certain conditions, as we can see it doing so on the continent. Worshipping that approach like we do here and in the States very much doesn’t work. |  |
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| The French health system on 21:44 - Oct 13 with 1383 views | Daninthecampo |
The spanish system is very good too, I can always get a GP appointment within 2 days.
We're still working so paying social security, so all free and prescriptions usually work out less than an euro per item! | | | |
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| The French health system on 22:21 - Oct 13 with 1294 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I've worked in , and alongside, the NHS for nigh on 40 years and when I started out the NHS was underfunded. Depressingly it's the same now. The state of the NHS is one of decades of underfunding to the point that we have a broken, crumbling infrastructure, inadequate numbers of staff and it will take years and years of super funding to build a NHS that can meet the huge demands.
What the big queston should be, is where has all the money gone? - and I do not mean money given to the NHS, as the NHS has historically been the cheapest health system in Europe. The question is where have the tax revenues gone? We have a society now in which too many people expect to be hugely wealthy. We've accepted it, much like the US. The super wealthy just don't pay much in tax, they are always a step ahead of HMRC. But perhpas even more than just the tax is the vastness of pay discrepancy between the top 0.1% and the rest. We've become a country where ordinary incomes are hardly enough to live on. I don't know what the precise figures are, maybe somoene has them to hand, but I know that highly qualified professional people find it really hard to just make ends meet. It's impossibe for young people to make it onto the property ladder. It just feels like the bubble has to burst.
You can't have a properly functioning country with good healthcare, transport, public services etc. when vast fortunes are hoarded by a tiny minority and tax revenues only apply to the ordinary folk. There needs to be a fundamental reset around remuneration and taxation, as we will never have decent public services. |  |
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| The French health system on 23:00 - Oct 13 with 1229 views | bournemouthblue |
| The French health system on 20:45 - Oct 13 by SuperBlue1998 |
The fact of the matter is the French spend significantly more public money on health than do we. To have that level of care we need to spend substantially more. Ultimately whether that's through individual contributions or tax does not matter - as myriad research in this field has shown. I favour the NHS funding model for fairness reasons, its level of spending thats important though |
A lot of European countries are prepared to pay more tax than us, in the UK tax is often treated as a dirty word |  |
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| The French health system on 01:14 - Oct 14 with 1118 views | Clapham_Junction |
| The French health system on 22:21 - Oct 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
I've worked in , and alongside, the NHS for nigh on 40 years and when I started out the NHS was underfunded. Depressingly it's the same now. The state of the NHS is one of decades of underfunding to the point that we have a broken, crumbling infrastructure, inadequate numbers of staff and it will take years and years of super funding to build a NHS that can meet the huge demands.
What the big queston should be, is where has all the money gone? - and I do not mean money given to the NHS, as the NHS has historically been the cheapest health system in Europe. The question is where have the tax revenues gone? We have a society now in which too many people expect to be hugely wealthy. We've accepted it, much like the US. The super wealthy just don't pay much in tax, they are always a step ahead of HMRC. But perhpas even more than just the tax is the vastness of pay discrepancy between the top 0.1% and the rest. We've become a country where ordinary incomes are hardly enough to live on. I don't know what the precise figures are, maybe somoene has them to hand, but I know that highly qualified professional people find it really hard to just make ends meet. It's impossibe for young people to make it onto the property ladder. It just feels like the bubble has to burst.
You can't have a properly functioning country with good healthcare, transport, public services etc. when vast fortunes are hoarded by a tiny minority and tax revenues only apply to the ordinary folk. There needs to be a fundamental reset around remuneration and taxation, as we will never have decent public services. |
If it's anything like local government, huge sums of money will be leaching out to private sector companies for providing shockingly poor service. The legacy of PFI is particularly appalling. |  | | |
| The French health system on 07:54 - Oct 14 with 888 views | Churchman |
My experience of the NHS is very limited compared to most on here. Mainly through Mrs Cs problems, my mother and father at the end of their lives and working with some people who once worked for NHS England.
My first generalism is that the people that work within the service are brilliant. Underpaid, over worked, taken advantage of but fantastic. Work in that and it’s a vocation.
The second generalisation is that the service is patchy. The care afforded to Mrs C re cancer last year was faultless. Shout out to Maidstone hospital. Wonderful people. When it came to my parents, not so good. GP support for the both was poor. Hospital (Ipswich) - everyone was trying but it felt chaos reigned. Disjointed. My late brother in law (Orpington)? Plenty of ‘how did we do’ questionnaires in his house and tons of kit, but in all but name he was abandoned.
When my father was dying, somebody came from the ‘end of life’ care team. He immediately got the situation, sat and talked to us and all of a sudden a process kicked in. Cover by different services was co-ordinated, people talked to each other, kit arrived, arrangements then a placing at St Elizabeth’s was sorted. It was efficient and reassuring.
And that’s what people need when dealing with people who are seriously unwell. Reassurance and support. To be talked to, to feel like the people who know far more than you ever could are on it.
That’s how it was at the end of his life. It wasn’t that way in the run up to it. Disjointed, patchy and awol GP. For my mother, Christmas Day 2017 was spent on a trolley in a corridor in Ipswich hospital in agony with a Sally Army band outside blasting out ‘god rest ye merry gentleman’. Shambles.
The budget for NHS and Social Care is over £2bn, but they are separate and boy does it show. Bit like government which works in silos where ‘Get your tanks of my lawn’ is a major factor.
Private sector services? They exist to make profit. That’s it. If they can supply rubbish and charge 5x its value, they are obligated to do so. Shareholder value. Don’t blame them, blame how they are contracted or controlled or do it in-house. PFI: get the principle, but in practice it was so badly controlled you and I paid well over the odds for rubbish buildings. Still, shareholders got their dividends, I’m sure.
In Sweden services are demand led. All a patient’s needs are assessed and treatments delivered accordingly. Not here. It’s supply driven. If you have diabetes, one lot. Cancer another etc etc. sometimes they don’t even know what the other lot are doing unless the patient tells them or asks. That is how it feels.
We can do better than this. It starts with funding. According to the internet ‘in 2022, the UK spent €3,651 per head on healthcare, while countries like Germany (€5,317), Switzerland (€5,630), and Norway (€5,376) spent significantly more, according to The Health Foundation’
On how it’s organised? Six years ago NHS England had a joke of a reputation. Doubt it has changed. Waste? I’m sure there’s loads of it but don’t truly know. Probably a bit of fraud/reselling too.
So, it needs bringing into the 21st century. It needs money. It’s there if there’s a will to find it. It needs new ways of funding and above all organising. There’s plenty of examples of how to do it in the world. There’s no political will here though. Just a load of mealy mouthed politicians with simpering smiles and no brains too scared to do anything beyond their expense claims and scrabbling over the best government cars (I know they actually do that too).
I repeat - the people working in it are beyond marvellous, by and large. The post war principle of Beveridge, Bevin etc was brilliant and stands the test of time. It could and should be better than it is. It’s all do-able.
Apols for the rant. [Post edited 14 Oct 8:16]
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| The French health system on 08:07 - Oct 14 with 859 views | DJR |
| The French health system on 21:44 - Oct 13 by Daninthecampo |
The spanish system is very good too, I can always get a GP appointment within 2 days.
We're still working so paying social security, so all free and prescriptions usually work out less than an euro per item! |
You should be OK if you are paying into the system but you might want to check the small print!
A neighbour at the place I visit in Spain last year broke his ankle. This turned septic and he had to have his leg removed below the ankle. This didn't do the trick and he later had to have it amputated above the knee.
He has lived in Spain for 15 years and has had what used to the known as a residencia for a long time. This brought him into the Spanish health system and all the treatment he received was free.
When I saw him in July, he had an appointment for a prosthetic limb fitting in August, and he had assumed this would be covered by the system.
It turned out that it is not the case and he has to meet the cost of the limb (some 8,000 Euros) himself, an amount which I am not sure he has.
It appears that cost-sharing comes into play in the case of prosthetic limbs and given he hasn't paid into the Spanish health system he has to pay the full amount.
Added to that bad news, he was told that he needs to continue treatment of his remaining limb by things like compression stockings otherwise it will cease to be able to use it artificial limb.
Unless he can find the money, he faces the prospect of being largely confined to his house forever given his wife doesn't drive and he couldn't find a taxi driver prepared to take him to a recent appointment and had to rely on a neighbour. This is rather a tragic prospect given he is only in his late 50s. [Post edited 14 Oct 8:16]
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| The French health system on 08:11 - Oct 14 with 844 views | chicoazul |
| The French health system on 23:00 - Oct 13 by bournemouthblue |
A lot of European countries are prepared to pay more tax than us, in the UK tax is often treated as a dirty word |
In France they are literally rioting about that very thing. |  |
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| The French health system on 08:14 - Oct 14 with 831 views | DJR |
| The French health system on 08:11 - Oct 14 by chicoazul |
In France they are literally rioting about that very thing. |
Speaking to my friend yesterday, they are complaining about the rise in the state pension age to 64.
I think they accept the level of taxation but don't accept that there needs to be some sort of compromise with an ever-aging population.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/macron-pension-reform-ends-cherished-french [Post edited 14 Oct 8:22]
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| The French health system on 09:56 - Oct 14 with 695 views | durhamj |
| The French health system on 18:40 - Oct 13 by jasondozzell |
We just need honest conversations and politicians who have principles and who also treat everyone like grown ups.
With everyone living longer, more complex treatment options, more comorbidiies to manage and high demand, we need to be clear about what we can do and where we should prioritise. That means frank conversations.
We need to actually fix and fund social care. We need to fund hospitals. Not through PFI but through tax.
The NHS is rightly a religion - universal healthcare free at point of use is a great achievement. We do not want two tier systems or to become America. Any insurance system will create that.
We all need to pay more tax.
In the end, when you're ill, nothing else matters. All the nonsense about moaning about tax, the Thatcherite selfishness, the Daily Mail spite about others, it all means nothing. You are vulnerable and you need someone to care for you.
Hospitals and healthcare are amazing things. But we treat them like services and like brands - it's the Thatcher thing again. We need to be stricter on abuse of the system.
But mostly we need to decide where our priorities lie. Is it chasing money and clout or is it having a health system that cares for all?
A nurse graduating in this country has debt of 56k.
The current government are to the right of most Tory governments in the past.
Some people won't realise what has happened to this country until they get ill. |
'The current government are to the right of most Tory governments in the past.'
Sorry, I'm no labour supporter, but that's wholly incorrect. | | | |
| The French health system on 10:41 - Oct 14 with 615 views | GlasgowBlue |
I've been saying this for some time. The Dutch system in particular is the standard bearer for healthcare.
The trouble is that as soon as somebody suggests a different system to what we have it usually descend into a binary choice between the NHS or the USA system.
When we finally stop treating the NHS as a national religion and "the envy of the world" (it's really not) and seriously discuss how healthcare can be improved for better patient outcome then we can move forward.
Unfortunately any politician wanting to start a grown up conversation about the future of our healthcare system will be shouted down as wanting to privatise our scared cow. |  |
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| The French health system on 11:25 - Oct 14 with 548 views | BlueOura |
| The French health system on 18:40 - Oct 13 by jasondozzell |
We just need honest conversations and politicians who have principles and who also treat everyone like grown ups.
With everyone living longer, more complex treatment options, more comorbidiies to manage and high demand, we need to be clear about what we can do and where we should prioritise. That means frank conversations.
We need to actually fix and fund social care. We need to fund hospitals. Not through PFI but through tax.
The NHS is rightly a religion - universal healthcare free at point of use is a great achievement. We do not want two tier systems or to become America. Any insurance system will create that.
We all need to pay more tax.
In the end, when you're ill, nothing else matters. All the nonsense about moaning about tax, the Thatcherite selfishness, the Daily Mail spite about others, it all means nothing. You are vulnerable and you need someone to care for you.
Hospitals and healthcare are amazing things. But we treat them like services and like brands - it's the Thatcher thing again. We need to be stricter on abuse of the system.
But mostly we need to decide where our priorities lie. Is it chasing money and clout or is it having a health system that cares for all?
A nurse graduating in this country has debt of 56k.
The current government are to the right of most Tory governments in the past.
Some people won't realise what has happened to this country until they get ill. |
"We all need to pay more tax"
FFS. No we don't. We are taxed more than enough already. The corrupt, evil, scumbag Governments need to stop wasting billions of pounds of taxpayers money on sh!t that we don't need ( Digital ID being the lastest example on a gigantic list ) and actually spend the money on things that might actually be of benefit to the people they are supposed to be serving, like healthcare.
While we are on the subject of healthcare, the investment needs to be in part aimed at preventing illness in the first place through educating people about diet and lifestyle choices. The vast majority of chronic illness and disease is as a result of the toxic lifestyles we to lead. I'm sure this post and the very suggestion of personal responsibilty around health and not being a helpless victim of 'bad luck' or gentics will trigger many. That's ok though, the truth normally does. |  | | |
| The French health system on 11:33 - Oct 14 with 532 views | DJR |
This indicates the UK has fewer doctors, nurses, beds and medical equipment than many comparable countries. Outcomes are also far worse than average.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/comparing-nhs-to-health-
Leaving aside the system, I suppose you get what you pay for which is fine if you're not elderly or with health issues.
As my friend in Paris is 66 and has had to call on the health system, he prefers the French system even if it costs more in terms of tax etc. [Post edited 14 Oct 11:37]
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| The French health system on 11:49 - Oct 14 with 492 views | jasondozzell |
| The French health system on 11:25 - Oct 14 by BlueOura |
"We all need to pay more tax"
FFS. No we don't. We are taxed more than enough already. The corrupt, evil, scumbag Governments need to stop wasting billions of pounds of taxpayers money on sh!t that we don't need ( Digital ID being the lastest example on a gigantic list ) and actually spend the money on things that might actually be of benefit to the people they are supposed to be serving, like healthcare.
While we are on the subject of healthcare, the investment needs to be in part aimed at preventing illness in the first place through educating people about diet and lifestyle choices. The vast majority of chronic illness and disease is as a result of the toxic lifestyles we to lead. I'm sure this post and the very suggestion of personal responsibilty around health and not being a helpless victim of 'bad luck' or gentics will trigger many. That's ok though, the truth normally does. |
We are taxed without sufficient investment in public services.
Look at Scandinavia. Higher taxes than us but much better public services. Nice countries to live in.
We have an ageing demographic. The healthcare and social care that is going to require is gigantic. We have to be honest about it. We are going to need to pay more if we want to be looked after properly in old age.
I'm totally against Digital ID.
But the idea it's just waste that's the issue is wrong.
We don't have hospital beds let alone care!
Tax should fall on the broadest shoulders more. But if you leveled with people and showed them what's possible everyone should see tax as something positive. | | | |
| The French health system on 11:50 - Oct 14 with 484 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The French health system on 11:25 - Oct 14 by BlueOura |
"We all need to pay more tax"
FFS. No we don't. We are taxed more than enough already. The corrupt, evil, scumbag Governments need to stop wasting billions of pounds of taxpayers money on sh!t that we don't need ( Digital ID being the lastest example on a gigantic list ) and actually spend the money on things that might actually be of benefit to the people they are supposed to be serving, like healthcare.
While we are on the subject of healthcare, the investment needs to be in part aimed at preventing illness in the first place through educating people about diet and lifestyle choices. The vast majority of chronic illness and disease is as a result of the toxic lifestyles we to lead. I'm sure this post and the very suggestion of personal responsibilty around health and not being a helpless victim of 'bad luck' or gentics will trigger many. That's ok though, the truth normally does. |
Speaking of prevention, I was talking to a GP friend of mine last week and he was saying that Mounjaro is a real game changer in prevention and in years to come we will see less obesity, heart problems, diabetes and he also said that it may improve mental health. | |
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| The French health system on 12:41 - Oct 14 with 390 views | chicoazul |
| The French health system on 18:40 - Oct 13 by jasondozzell |
We just need honest conversations and politicians who have principles and who also treat everyone like grown ups.
With everyone living longer, more complex treatment options, more comorbidiies to manage and high demand, we need to be clear about what we can do and where we should prioritise. That means frank conversations.
We need to actually fix and fund social care. We need to fund hospitals. Not through PFI but through tax.
The NHS is rightly a religion - universal healthcare free at point of use is a great achievement. We do not want two tier systems or to become America. Any insurance system will create that.
We all need to pay more tax.
In the end, when you're ill, nothing else matters. All the nonsense about moaning about tax, the Thatcherite selfishness, the Daily Mail spite about others, it all means nothing. You are vulnerable and you need someone to care for you.
Hospitals and healthcare are amazing things. But we treat them like services and like brands - it's the Thatcher thing again. We need to be stricter on abuse of the system.
But mostly we need to decide where our priorities lie. Is it chasing money and clout or is it having a health system that cares for all?
A nurse graduating in this country has debt of 56k.
The current government are to the right of most Tory governments in the past.
Some people won't realise what has happened to this country until they get ill. |
We all need to pay more tax
Hahahahahaaaaaaahahahahahhahaaaa | |
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| The French health system on 13:06 - Oct 14 with 343 views | eireblue |
| The French health system on 11:33 - Oct 14 by DJR |
This indicates the UK has fewer doctors, nurses, beds and medical equipment than many comparable countries. Outcomes are also far worse than average.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/comparing-nhs-to-health-
Leaving aside the system, I suppose you get what you pay for which is fine if you're not elderly or with health issues.
As my friend in Paris is 66 and has had to call on the health system, he prefers the French system even if it costs more in terms of tax etc. [Post edited 14 Oct 11:37]
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Yep, the question isn’t, why can’t we have a European model.
The question is how do we get from current model, to a similar level of spend and heath outcomes.
Better health outcomes are highly correlated with higher spend.
In summary, those graphs show that we have an under-resourced efficient system.
So, then the question is, how to maintain that level of efficiency, whilst improving and optimising the delivery of health services to improve health outcomes by spending more.
I do have private health care via my employer. It is quick, but not efficient. NHS has been efficient and speed is variable. |  | | |
| The French health system on 13:16 - Oct 14 with 310 views | ElderGrizzly |
| The French health system on 11:33 - Oct 14 by DJR |
This indicates the UK has fewer doctors, nurses, beds and medical equipment than many comparable countries. Outcomes are also far worse than average.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/comparing-nhs-to-health-
Leaving aside the system, I suppose you get what you pay for which is fine if you're not elderly or with health issues.
As my friend in Paris is 66 and has had to call on the health system, he prefers the French system even if it costs more in terms of tax etc. [Post edited 14 Oct 11:37]
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At the last intake, the GMC were saying that 51% of doctors in training are now coming here from international locations/with overseas primary qualifications.
So we don't have enough and those we do have we are having to look overseas to the detriment of those poorer nations.
The whole Doctor education/training system is collapsing. |  | | |
| The French health system on 13:22 - Oct 14 with 287 views | BlueOura |
| The French health system on 11:49 - Oct 14 by jasondozzell |
We are taxed without sufficient investment in public services.
Look at Scandinavia. Higher taxes than us but much better public services. Nice countries to live in.
We have an ageing demographic. The healthcare and social care that is going to require is gigantic. We have to be honest about it. We are going to need to pay more if we want to be looked after properly in old age.
I'm totally against Digital ID.
But the idea it's just waste that's the issue is wrong.
We don't have hospital beds let alone care!
Tax should fall on the broadest shoulders more. But if you leveled with people and showed them what's possible everyone should see tax as something positive. |
"We are taxed without sufficient investment in public services"
That's kind of what I said isn't it? So you agree with me then, at least in part. We don't necessarily need to be taxed more, we just need the Government to spend it more on the things that matter, like healthcare. | | | |
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