| I feel sorry for Hirst 08:47 - Oct 19 with 3363 views | Chris_ITFC |
Personally, I think the criticism has been way over the top. I don’t understand why some seem to relish going for individuals - there’s always someone fashionable to dig out, even after such a poor *team* performance. Most of the squad have suffered it at some point over the last 18 months, but that’s another story.
Anyway - Hirst. Why hasn’t it clicked for him, I wonder?
From clever creator Chaplin to goal-getting second strikers Szomdics and Akpom.
From Broadhead playing so narrow, literally as a second #10, to Philogene hugging the touchline and usually cutting in to shoot.
From Burns beating his man and crossing again and again, to Egeli occasionally trying to swing crosses in on his weak right foot and McAteer yet to get up to speed.
And even the midfield - I can remember O’Shea and Kipre playing passes into Hirst’s feet on Friday (he shouldn’t have to come that deep, and that ain’t easy), but can’t picture the CMs doing it, and certainly none of the balls over the top he thrives on.
Hirst can gel a team together, but we’ve swapped out his smooth, silky wet look stuff for some of that gloopy, sticky modern putty. It’s going to take him longer to mould this. That’s knocked his confidence so hard, he’s just gone skinhead and chucked the gel in the bin - but that’s another story too.
Anyway - Hirst. Why hasn’t it clicked for him, I wonder!
He hasn’t been his usual self - but neither have we. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 15:56 - Oct 19 with 593 views | stiff_talking |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:54 - Oct 19 by HighgateBlue |
I agree with all of that, and my petulance could doubtless sometimes do with a little more nuance.
But re Smodders, if he's taking loads of shots, then that's a different problem, because he hasn't troubled the net yet in the league. Or at least not the inside of it.
6 starts and 3 sub appearances, no goals. This guy was the run away top scorer in the Championship last time he was in it, 2 years ago. What have we done to him? He was top goal scorer BY six goals. This season he'll be lucky to GET six goals.
The year before SS's goalscoring exploits, a certain Mr C Akpom scored 28 in the Championship, from 38 games. Another yet to find the net.
Have we bought the right kind of player for the number 10 spot? Because we're getting little joy from a position that was a real plus for us last time round in the Championship, and we're deploying players who had astonishing success last time round in the Championship.
I would urge all supporters to think like a horse racing analyst - study the actual value of the form. Yes, we have a good goal difference, and yes we're riding high in what are called "form tables", but the value of the form is minimal if we've only beaten bottom half clubs, and at home. I really think the glorious shine of derby day, and the rampant 5-0 win are in danger of clouding our judgment as to how well we've actually done. We will have to play top half teams. We will have to play away from home. I pray we step up, because on the evidence thus far, we're not making a charge for the top of the table any time soon. |
He could be finding the pressure of being our lead striker challenging. I’ve noticed a nervy side to his game creep in this season. I still think he is a decent player but he needs to relax more. He is too uptight and anxious. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 17:19 - Oct 19 with 530 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:29 - Oct 19 by NthQldITFC |
I think both of those things are true. There was, I seem to remember, quite a lot of talk about him looking fantastic in pre-season, and with the context of us coming down from the Prem and being everyone's favourites, I think the pressure on him has been immense from the very first kick of the season onwards.
I don't think it's been dealt with particularly well, as evidenced by him not doing things well that he used to do well, mainly the control and ball protection and the layoffs thereafter. He's been trying to be too sharp and too quick in his actions from the start and it hasn't worked and now he's feeling even more pressure to be super sharp and justify our favouritism and his pre-season hype. It's a vicious circle.
If he was still playing with Chappers and Broady and Wes and Morsy it would have just fixed itself, but in a team which is yet to fully come together, it's too much pressure for him. The psychology department (i.e himself and KMc and whoever else) needs to somehow ease the pressure a little bit, and I would suggest (as above) that Ivan starts the next two just to give him a bit of breathing space. |
Yeah I agree with a lot of that, and I think it has a big part to play in a) Hirst’s performances, b) fan expectations of him, and therefore, c) the gap between those 2 things.
As I put just above you:
He’s maybe trying a bit hard to be the main man (see #9 shirt; see Brum celebration) | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 17:22 - Oct 19 with 522 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:54 - Oct 19 by HighgateBlue |
I agree with all of that, and my petulance could doubtless sometimes do with a little more nuance.
But re Smodders, if he's taking loads of shots, then that's a different problem, because he hasn't troubled the net yet in the league. Or at least not the inside of it.
6 starts and 3 sub appearances, no goals. This guy was the run away top scorer in the Championship last time he was in it, 2 years ago. What have we done to him? He was top goal scorer BY six goals. This season he'll be lucky to GET six goals.
The year before SS's goalscoring exploits, a certain Mr C Akpom scored 28 in the Championship, from 38 games. Another yet to find the net.
Have we bought the right kind of player for the number 10 spot? Because we're getting little joy from a position that was a real plus for us last time round in the Championship, and we're deploying players who had astonishing success last time round in the Championship.
I would urge all supporters to think like a horse racing analyst - study the actual value of the form. Yes, we have a good goal difference, and yes we're riding high in what are called "form tables", but the value of the form is minimal if we've only beaten bottom half clubs, and at home. I really think the glorious shine of derby day, and the rampant 5-0 win are in danger of clouding our judgment as to how well we've actually done. We will have to play top half teams. We will have to play away from home. I pray we step up, because on the evidence thus far, we're not making a charge for the top of the table any time soon. |
“could doubtless sometimes do with a little more nuance.”
“This season he'll be lucky to GET six goals.”
  … I’m kidding.
I think Szmodics has been a bit unlucky, hitting posts and shots fortunately blocked. Blackburn were built around him though, which makes a difference. Akpom hasn’t really had the game time yet.
However - I share your concerns. We’re a big fish, teams sit deep, and actually, I think a creative #10 (Chaplin/Broadhead) is much more important when that’s true. A second striker type was probably more suited to our promotion season, with more open spaces. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 18:18 - Oct 19 with 475 views | Ryorry |
Him and Mo Salah together! |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 20:16 - Oct 19 with 426 views | BlueForYou |
His ball control has been awful this season. He really needs to work on that. A lot of stuff we do create, breaks down at his clumsy feet. He's playing with zero confidence at the moment. A couple of goals would really help turn him around. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 22:03 - Oct 19 with 358 views | waveneyblue |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:02 - Oct 19 by Mullet |
Yep, I don't think the criticism has been that bad either. |
Its funny how you never do....
Take a look at Facebook/Twitter and you will see some absolute toxic shit about him.
But again, im sure you will tell us differently. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 07:56 - Oct 20 with 305 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 22:03 - Oct 19 by waveneyblue |
Its funny how you never do....
Take a look at Facebook/Twitter and you will see some absolute toxic shit about him.
But again, im sure you will tell us differently. |
Yeah, I didn’t necessarily mean just TWTD. It has its moments, but it stays relatively rational here. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:39 - Oct 20 with 277 views | Smoresy |
Think you raise a very fair point. Moreover, I think memories of Hirst's previous Championship campaign have undergone some "airbrushing". That's perfectly understandable because he was an important player in a top two team.
I believe we're scrutinising his weaknesses more because those around him have mostly performed below the levels of the 23/24 team. Some areas of Hirst's game attracting criticism have actually seen improvement, while he isn't a long way off in other departments.
Doubtless we'd have more points with a better striker up front, but the same may be said for most positions and most teams. | | | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:46 - Oct 20 with 265 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:39 - Oct 20 by Smoresy |
Think you raise a very fair point. Moreover, I think memories of Hirst's previous Championship campaign have undergone some "airbrushing". That's perfectly understandable because he was an important player in a top two team.
I believe we're scrutinising his weaknesses more because those around him have mostly performed below the levels of the 23/24 team. Some areas of Hirst's game attracting criticism have actually seen improvement, while he isn't a long way off in other departments.
Doubtless we'd have more points with a better striker up front, but the same may be said for most positions and most teams. |
Yeah, totally agree.
The eye test wouldn’t tell you he’s more clinical and safer on the ball this season, but that’s a simple fact.
… Not to say that I think he’s performing to his best yet. Just that there’s nuance.
Like you say, I think some of it is a memory problem, some is an expectation problem, some is a confidence problem. People expect him to be a similar standard to the Philogenes and Jack Clarkes, because he’s in the same forward line, for a team who expect promotion - perhaps forgetting that he cost us £2m and they cost us £20m. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:52 - Oct 20 with 238 views | Benters |
He’s just going through a bad patch that’s all,once he starts scoring again he will be banging them in for fun. [Post edited 20 Oct 12:04]
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:59 - Oct 20 with 223 views | IH_KGF |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:52 - Oct 20 by Benters |
He’s just going through a bad patch that’s all,once he starts scoring again he will be banging them in for fun. [Post edited 20 Oct 12:04]
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That isn't really what people's issue with Hirst, he's not an out and out striker that'll be getting us 20 goals a season, or even expected to.
Its what he does in terms of helping those around to get the goals that I judge him on.
And that is where he is really struggling. The basics of controlling a ball, critical passes.
And lets be honest, he's fluffed 3/4 massive chances to score too, at important times.
I think he and KM would both admit they are equally a little disappointed in what he's done so far this season. As mentioned elsewhere I personally think he needs time out of the firing line, and see if him coming on at 70mins helps him to remain that level of playing that we know he has.
It wasn't long ago that I was waiting him starting ahead of Delap - because of being an excellent team player. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:02 - Oct 20 with 217 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:59 - Oct 20 by IH_KGF |
That isn't really what people's issue with Hirst, he's not an out and out striker that'll be getting us 20 goals a season, or even expected to.
Its what he does in terms of helping those around to get the goals that I judge him on.
And that is where he is really struggling. The basics of controlling a ball, critical passes.
And lets be honest, he's fluffed 3/4 massive chances to score too, at important times.
I think he and KM would both admit they are equally a little disappointed in what he's done so far this season. As mentioned elsewhere I personally think he needs time out of the firing line, and see if him coming on at 70mins helps him to remain that level of playing that we know he has.
It wasn't long ago that I was waiting him starting ahead of Delap - because of being an excellent team player. |
Problem i have is we didn't need hirst to be prolific.
But we aren't scoring a lot of goals elsewhere other than phologene and hirst has had alot of chances go begging.
Of you're not getting goals around the pitch you need it from the striker
Sammy S. Oh he's playing well. Running alot. Good shift ( I've said that myself) not scoring
Egeli. Learning no goals
Cajuste and azor not likely to get involved in the goal scoring charts.
[Post edited 20 Oct 12:04]
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:09 - Oct 20 with 190 views | ZapatasMoustache |
I don't think he's been too bad overall, and he's getting some chances and will get plenty more. Where I have been particularly critical of him this season is that his first touch seems to have been consistently poor - the ball is just bouncing off his feet in build up play and often losing us possession. I haven't seen stats on that specifically, but it's based on the eyeball test in the games I've seen (all bar one). |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:10 - Oct 20 with 186 views | IH_KGF |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:02 - Oct 20 by FrimleyBlue |
Problem i have is we didn't need hirst to be prolific.
But we aren't scoring a lot of goals elsewhere other than phologene and hirst has had alot of chances go begging.
Of you're not getting goals around the pitch you need it from the striker
Sammy S. Oh he's playing well. Running alot. Good shift ( I've said that myself) not scoring
Egeli. Learning no goals
Cajuste and azor not likely to get involved in the goal scoring charts.
[Post edited 20 Oct 12:04]
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Yeah agree with that.
We have potential there but its not really working well IMO. All well and good having a professional footballer running hard and putting himself about, but we clearly need more.
Cajuste is a weird one for me, there are 2/3/4 moments in a game where he does something WOW, but its not then followed up on and he loses possession.
It wont be hard for an Opposition manager to nullify JP and seriously reducing our chances of a goal | | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:14 - Oct 20 with 171 views | Benters |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:59 - Oct 20 by IH_KGF |
That isn't really what people's issue with Hirst, he's not an out and out striker that'll be getting us 20 goals a season, or even expected to.
Its what he does in terms of helping those around to get the goals that I judge him on.
And that is where he is really struggling. The basics of controlling a ball, critical passes.
And lets be honest, he's fluffed 3/4 massive chances to score too, at important times.
I think he and KM would both admit they are equally a little disappointed in what he's done so far this season. As mentioned elsewhere I personally think he needs time out of the firing line, and see if him coming on at 70mins helps him to remain that level of playing that we know he has.
It wasn't long ago that I was waiting him starting ahead of Delap - because of being an excellent team player. |
Confidence innit. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:15 - Oct 20 with 169 views | bazza |
There’s no room for sentiment in this game, we need goals, do you think all those players who stole a wage through the Evans years felt sorry for us all forking out a fortune to watch dross week in week out, we want to establish ourselves as a premier league club, we need to be ruthless. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:51 - Oct 20 with 134 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:15 - Oct 20 by bazza |
There’s no room for sentiment in this game, we need goals, do you think all those players who stole a wage through the Evans years felt sorry for us all forking out a fortune to watch dross week in week out, we want to establish ourselves as a premier league club, we need to be ruthless. |
Um.. What?  | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:05 - Oct 20 with 117 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
It's interesting reading this thread, because some are straying off into areas of 'expectations'.
I've said before that Hirst seems to be lacking a little 'sharpness', but comparing his stats do show that he's performing equal to, or better than, 23/24. So not so bad to our promotion year. However, this year some seem to expect us to be battering everyone we play. The Championship tends not to work like that!
We're SECOND in the form table, which isn't so bad, and if we continue like this we'll be promoted. Maybe not battering many yet, but that's OK and the objective for this year.
We've all said that we're not 'there' yet, but that has to terrify the rest of the division, if there is more to come and yet we're still 2nd in the form table.
It's all perspective coupled to expectations | | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 19:43 - Oct 20 with 46 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:05 - Oct 20 by SuffolkPunchFC |
It's interesting reading this thread, because some are straying off into areas of 'expectations'.
I've said before that Hirst seems to be lacking a little 'sharpness', but comparing his stats do show that he's performing equal to, or better than, 23/24. So not so bad to our promotion year. However, this year some seem to expect us to be battering everyone we play. The Championship tends not to work like that!
We're SECOND in the form table, which isn't so bad, and if we continue like this we'll be promoted. Maybe not battering many yet, but that's OK and the objective for this year.
We've all said that we're not 'there' yet, but that has to terrify the rest of the division, if there is more to come and yet we're still 2nd in the form table.
It's all perspective coupled to expectations |
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