| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' 23:06 - Nov 4 with 7837 views | jasondozzell |
Moaning at every opportunity, delighting in having a pop at players and KM and then joining in the promotion celebrations at the end and saying 'never in doubt I love this team'. |  | | |  |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:33 - Nov 6 with 783 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 08:59 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Everyone’s team has been together the same amount of time, we’re not unique in making transfers during the Summer
8 of our top 10 appearance makers were here last season
I’m ever hopeful we will still click into gear and the division not having a stand out side bar possibly Coventry will help, but given that every Ipswich side that’s been promoted in my lifetime has been in the top 5 by this point of the season it’ll be something of an anomaly if we do wind up winning promotion |
That's simply not true. Most of the division, if not all, haven't had the same churn of players we have. We've lost our captain, main striker, main creative outlet, right back, a couple of number 10s, two central defenders...
Not all enforced, but certainly a lot of change (and more than the management anticipated).
Coventry are a great example of a team that's been together and improving over time. |  |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:36 - Nov 6 with 777 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:00 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Wolves have only one less point than at the same point last year |
Yes - I noticed that too. Wolves picked up around Xmas last year. I think they have less quality to dig them out this season though, in particular Ait-Nouri and Cunha |  | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:38 - Nov 6 with 769 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:00 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Wolves have only one less point than at the same point last year |
At this point last year they hadn't sacked their manager and started enjoying the upturn that provided. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:59 - Nov 6 with 752 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:33 - Nov 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's simply not true. Most of the division, if not all, haven't had the same churn of players we have. We've lost our captain, main striker, main creative outlet, right back, a couple of number 10s, two central defenders...
Not all enforced, but certainly a lot of change (and more than the management anticipated).
Coventry are a great example of a team that's been together and improving over time. |
It is true, bar Coventry all of the top 6 signed more players than we did in the Summer
I don’t know why you seem to think we’re the only club that has to deal with integrating new players in a new season, when most of the FPL see double figures going in and out each year as a matter of course |  |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:09 - Nov 6 with 742 views | itfcsuth |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 19:36 - Nov 5 by Churchman |
So what would you value them as now? Nothing because you think they’re all cr@p?
Given a club sets a selling price and we buy at whatever we are prepared to pay, am I right in assuming you would not have bought any of those players? There’s no third option. Pay the going rate that you can afford or copy the Norwich model. Sign nobody and trouser the cash.
So given you think we criminally overspent (whatever that actually means - presumably as McKenna approved the transfers you want him out?), who would you have bought?
Anyone but them? Kone? He was being waved about as a good cheapie a month ago. Shame he looked a L1 lump at best on Saturday.
Transfers carry risk. Some will work out, some won’t. Some one likes the look of and prove poor, others the opposite. Some are no brainer. I’ve seen Egeli. He’s going to be a terrific player that at worst will make this club a lot of money.
Same with loans. Like Phillips cost wages for the less than zilch he delivered and left our midfield nonexistent. We got nothing back. What did Cajuste deliver? Looked good but one goal and one assist. Whoopee. And in my view he’s less effective than Nunez now, despite the latter horrific miss last night.
Ignoring the profit on Omari and Liam (conveniently) if that £100m over the next two seasons = mid table mediocrity and a loss of £100m, it’ll constitute poor transfer business and money wasted. All with the luxury of hindsight. Until then it might be a radical idea for some to actually support and encourage these players rather than try and tear them down with their FM25 football knowledge at every opportunity.
Just once maybe, as opposed to disappearing when the team wins 4-1 or Philogene tears a team apart.
But hey, you be you. It’s all opinions. Keep moaning and piling in, keep enjoying defeats and less than perfect performances. You are fast becoming the majority which means those who don’t agree with you are probably best leaving the board to you.
Unless we win of course. The board had very different posters after Saturday for a few days. Strange that. |
Value now, significantly less than we paid.
How about the transfer idea that you don't have to follow the trends, and can still find real value for money in transfer market, if you have the right scouting, knowledge and negotiations. There is, and always will be a way to operate in the transfer market to find undervalued and modestly valued players that tactically and systemically add and improve your squad.
Our model of buying Championship galacticos, regardless of whether they suit our system or style, and overpaying in comparable to other players that have moved around the world - does not strike me as the perfect 'player trading' model.
PS, I was right on here when Philogene dropped one of the best individual collection of goals against Sheffield Utd, just like I have been when he has also gone missing for half the games this season - don't be a silly sausage.
PS, I've not once said KMc out, I am probably his biggest fan on here, and have stated that on this forum endless times as recent as Tuesday night - don't be a silly sausage. [Post edited 6 Nov 10:12]
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:25 - Nov 6 with 714 views | itfcsuth |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 16:33 - Nov 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You seem to be deliberately taking the most pessimistic view.
Actually most of the new signings didn't have pre-season with us.
The majority weren't here last year.
We are actually closer to a quarter of the season gone than a third.
And I also think "dysfunctional" is a very harsh reading of things. |
Group here last year: Walton, Palmer, Johnson, O'Shea, Greaves, Davis, Cajuste, Taylor, Szmodics, Clarke, Philogene, Hirst
Signed in pre season: Matusiwa, Kipre, Young, Button
Signed post pre season: McAteer, Azon, Egeli, Akpom, Nunez, Furlong
So 6 players post the opening group of a 25 man squad, and that is the reason we are a third into the season and still look lacking in consistency, cohesion and quality (the reason people were late into the building was because how poorly we operated again in another transfer window).
I want nothing more than to see KMc build another special team that can not only fire us to the PL, but compete and claim a permanent place, but this group is absolutely miles off it, and for £125m invested, that is criminal. | | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:28 - Nov 6 with 701 views | goperryrevs |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 21:30 - Nov 5 by ITFCSG |
"I don't care..." It is precisely because of fans with viewpoints like this that we managed to regress under Evans for 14 years.
Why wouldn't you care when a club, possibly 2, or possibly even 3 this season, are showing us what can be done? Shouldn't KM and MA man up and admit the transfer policy last season was wrong, and look to adopt a best practice approach instead?
In the pursuit of continuous improvement and excellence there is always a need to learn from the best, not find excuses "...loads of great teams that didn't gel immediately blablabla..". Why compare ourselves with teams that have failed? |
The problem is that your suggestion that KM & MA should 'man up and admit the transfer policy was wrong' as a solution for our struggles this season is totally unhelpful.
Firstly, MA has already spoken about how we've learned lessons regarding recruiting more physicality for the Premier League. But the idea that they'd come out in public and say something like "we recruited all the wrong players" is farcical. Do you think it'd motivate the players we have signed? Make them feel inspired and play better as a team?
Secondly, just because things aren't said in public doesn't mean they're not spoken about and reflected on in private. I'm sure that KM & MA have had a lot more reflections and ideas about how we can improve than most of the 'ideas' that negative fans come out with, including regarding recruitment. But they're not going to announce the content of all those discussions to the fans. Just as KM said about the spat between Azor and Jaden - fine behind closed doors on the training pitch, healthy even. But not during a game.
Sorry, but the OP has it right. I've got no problem with reasonable thoughtful criticism. But most of the negative posts on here and elsewhere seem to be:
- After we fail to win a game - as if those fans are wishing for us to fail so they can have a lovely rant, but then strangely disappear when we win.
- Single out players / management unnecessarily - which if I was a player reading it would definitely NOT motivate me or endear me to the fanbase.
- Offer nothing as a solution - or when there is a suggestion there's no substance to it.
Regarding Evans - yes, true. But that was for 14 years. Last season, given the context, we ended up where expected. This season we've struggled a bit for the first 13 games. And our struggles are nowhere near as bad as Leicester, Southampton or Sheffield United - all of which we expected to be up against near the top. It's not a comparable situation to the stagnation under Evans.
We are underachieving at the moment, and it's frustrating. But we've got the right people in the club to improve it, and they've got my full support. And they know a lot more than me. Personally, I feel that Akpom has the attributes to play upfront, and would love to see him there. But I don't see him in training, I don't have anywhere near the tactical awareness or understanding that our manager has, and I can imagine if I sat down with Kieran, that he'd patiently and thoroughly explain his thinking in detail as to why he's not played Akpom upfront yet.
I'm not singling you out at all here - this isn't aimed at you specifically, but when things aren't going as well as we want, it's easy to have a toddler fit and complain that we're not higher up in the table. But if there's not substance beyond "I want us to win more games" (everyone wants us to win more games), and the toxic entitlement has a negative effect, then what's the point? The answer is the players and management working harder, training harder and embedding the right patterns of play in this new team. And that's what'll be happening.
If you're going to complain, offer something constructive as a solution. But be prepared to have it pointed out that your solution has probably already been considered by the management, and might not be some magic bullet fix anyway. | | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:33 - Nov 6 with 686 views | bluefunk |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 08:59 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Everyone’s team has been together the same amount of time, we’re not unique in making transfers during the Summer
8 of our top 10 appearance makers were here last season
I’m ever hopeful we will still click into gear and the division not having a stand out side bar possibly Coventry will help, but given that every Ipswich side that’s been promoted in my lifetime has been in the top 5 by this point of the season it’ll be something of an anomaly if we do wind up winning promotion |
I don’t know how old you ate, obviously, but the side that was promoted in 1991/2 was around 10th at Christmas. Blackburn, top and laden with Walker cash, came to PR over the festive season and we won 2-1, and went on to be Champions. Not dissimilar to where we sit now.
There are other examples of teams making a second half run for promotion from mid table and back, not least Palace under Ian Dowie, in the bottom three at Christmas and promoted via the play offs. |  | | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:37 - Nov 6 with 665 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 09:59 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It is true, bar Coventry all of the top 6 signed more players than we did in the Summer
I don’t know why you seem to think we’re the only club that has to deal with integrating new players in a new season, when most of the FPL see double figures going in and out each year as a matter of course |
It's about the crucialness of those signings. I'm not talking fringe players. Again you're using straight facts and ignoring the nuance and context (I'm assuming you're being factual, I haven't checked every club's signings, and I'm amazed you have).
But look at the places in the team we've lost, as I listed. No other team has gutted and had to restart such important positions in that way.
And there are plenty of signs it's coming together in any case. We won our last away game 4-1, and on Tuesday we would've won comfortably, possibly by a similar scoreline, were it not for some dodgy/unlucky misses. We utterly dominated Watford from start to finish. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:38 - Nov 6 with 660 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:33 - Nov 6 by bluefunk |
I don’t know how old you ate, obviously, but the side that was promoted in 1991/2 was around 10th at Christmas. Blackburn, top and laden with Walker cash, came to PR over the festive season and we won 2-1, and went on to be Champions. Not dissimilar to where we sit now.
There are other examples of teams making a second half run for promotion from mid table and back, not least Palace under Ian Dowie, in the bottom three at Christmas and promoted via the play offs. |
They were 5th after 14 games
EDIT - referring to us in 1991/92 [Post edited 6 Nov 10:40]
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:42 - Nov 6 with 634 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:25 - Nov 6 by itfcsuth |
Group here last year: Walton, Palmer, Johnson, O'Shea, Greaves, Davis, Cajuste, Taylor, Szmodics, Clarke, Philogene, Hirst
Signed in pre season: Matusiwa, Kipre, Young, Button
Signed post pre season: McAteer, Azon, Egeli, Akpom, Nunez, Furlong
So 6 players post the opening group of a 25 man squad, and that is the reason we are a third into the season and still look lacking in consistency, cohesion and quality (the reason people were late into the building was because how poorly we operated again in another transfer window).
I want nothing more than to see KMc build another special team that can not only fire us to the PL, but compete and claim a permanent place, but this group is absolutely miles off it, and for £125m invested, that is criminal. |
You've shown it yourself there - the full squad has only been together 9 games. The only thing criminal is your lack of patience. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:43 - Nov 6 with 633 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:37 - Nov 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's about the crucialness of those signings. I'm not talking fringe players. Again you're using straight facts and ignoring the nuance and context (I'm assuming you're being factual, I haven't checked every club's signings, and I'm amazed you have).
But look at the places in the team we've lost, as I listed. No other team has gutted and had to restart such important positions in that way.
And there are plenty of signs it's coming together in any case. We won our last away game 4-1, and on Tuesday we would've won comfortably, possibly by a similar scoreline, were it not for some dodgy/unlucky misses. We utterly dominated Watford from start to finish. |
Other teams have lost key players too, it’s the nature of the beast at this level. They also haven’t replaced those players with ones that cost 8 figure fees
Given that you haven’t actually checked what other teams have done I am not sure why you keep insisting with such confidence that we’re a special case but there you go
If we’d taken chances and the opposition missed theirs in all of our games we’d be top with a 100% record | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:45 - Nov 6 with 617 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:28 - Nov 6 by goperryrevs |
The problem is that your suggestion that KM & MA should 'man up and admit the transfer policy was wrong' as a solution for our struggles this season is totally unhelpful.
Firstly, MA has already spoken about how we've learned lessons regarding recruiting more physicality for the Premier League. But the idea that they'd come out in public and say something like "we recruited all the wrong players" is farcical. Do you think it'd motivate the players we have signed? Make them feel inspired and play better as a team?
Secondly, just because things aren't said in public doesn't mean they're not spoken about and reflected on in private. I'm sure that KM & MA have had a lot more reflections and ideas about how we can improve than most of the 'ideas' that negative fans come out with, including regarding recruitment. But they're not going to announce the content of all those discussions to the fans. Just as KM said about the spat between Azor and Jaden - fine behind closed doors on the training pitch, healthy even. But not during a game.
Sorry, but the OP has it right. I've got no problem with reasonable thoughtful criticism. But most of the negative posts on here and elsewhere seem to be:
- After we fail to win a game - as if those fans are wishing for us to fail so they can have a lovely rant, but then strangely disappear when we win.
- Single out players / management unnecessarily - which if I was a player reading it would definitely NOT motivate me or endear me to the fanbase.
- Offer nothing as a solution - or when there is a suggestion there's no substance to it.
Regarding Evans - yes, true. But that was for 14 years. Last season, given the context, we ended up where expected. This season we've struggled a bit for the first 13 games. And our struggles are nowhere near as bad as Leicester, Southampton or Sheffield United - all of which we expected to be up against near the top. It's not a comparable situation to the stagnation under Evans.
We are underachieving at the moment, and it's frustrating. But we've got the right people in the club to improve it, and they've got my full support. And they know a lot more than me. Personally, I feel that Akpom has the attributes to play upfront, and would love to see him there. But I don't see him in training, I don't have anywhere near the tactical awareness or understanding that our manager has, and I can imagine if I sat down with Kieran, that he'd patiently and thoroughly explain his thinking in detail as to why he's not played Akpom upfront yet.
I'm not singling you out at all here - this isn't aimed at you specifically, but when things aren't going as well as we want, it's easy to have a toddler fit and complain that we're not higher up in the table. But if there's not substance beyond "I want us to win more games" (everyone wants us to win more games), and the toxic entitlement has a negative effect, then what's the point? The answer is the players and management working harder, training harder and embedding the right patterns of play in this new team. And that's what'll be happening.
If you're going to complain, offer something constructive as a solution. But be prepared to have it pointed out that your solution has probably already been considered by the management, and might not be some magic bullet fix anyway. |
Excellent post. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:46 - Nov 6 with 604 views | bluefunk |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:38 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
They were 5th after 14 games
EDIT - referring to us in 1991/92 [Post edited 6 Nov 10:40]
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The point stands that it’s perfectly possible to get promoted from where we are now, given that we did it from further back after half a season gone. I guess that doesn’t fit the view you are taking. | | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:48 - Nov 6 with 585 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:43 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Other teams have lost key players too, it’s the nature of the beast at this level. They also haven’t replaced those players with ones that cost 8 figure fees
Given that you haven’t actually checked what other teams have done I am not sure why you keep insisting with such confidence that we’re a special case but there you go
If we’d taken chances and the opposition missed theirs in all of our games we’d be top with a 100% record |
I've not counted every signing for every club as you obviously have. But I know they haven't changed as many key players as us.
The prices are irrelevant in terms of team cohesion. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:49 - Nov 6 with 581 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:46 - Nov 6 by bluefunk |
The point stands that it’s perfectly possible to get promoted from where we are now, given that we did it from further back after half a season gone. I guess that doesn’t fit the view you are taking. |
It is the view I’m taking actually which is why I posted ‘ I’m ever hopeful we will still click into gear and the division not having a stand out side bar possibly Coventry will help’ earlier in the thread
However is doing that would be an outlier and an Ipswich team from 30+ years ago (that was higher in the table than where we are now at this stage of the season) and a Palace team 10+ years ago doesn’t change that fact | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:51 - Nov 6 with 573 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:48 - Nov 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've not counted every signing for every club as you obviously have. But I know they haven't changed as many key players as us.
The prices are irrelevant in terms of team cohesion. |
So to paraphrase:
‘I haven’t checked but I know other teams haven’t changed key players’
Never change Dolly | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:54 - Nov 6 with 542 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:51 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
So to paraphrase:
‘I haven’t checked but I know other teams haven’t changed key players’
Never change Dolly |
Are you unable to read? I quite clearly didn't say that.
Why don't you tell us how many signings every club in the Championship has made, seeing as you've checked them all. No ChatGPT-ing!
You should remove the "Highlighting" bit from your signature, it's not needed. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 11:00 - Nov 6 with 523 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 08:59 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Everyone’s team has been together the same amount of time, we’re not unique in making transfers during the Summer
8 of our top 10 appearance makers were here last season
I’m ever hopeful we will still click into gear and the division not having a stand out side bar possibly Coventry will help, but given that every Ipswich side that’s been promoted in my lifetime has been in the top 5 by this point of the season it’ll be something of an anomaly if we do wind up winning promotion |
"...every Ipswich side that’s been promoted in my lifetime has been in the top 5 by this point of the season it’ll be something of an anomaly if we do wind up winning promotion."
If (and I accept it's an if) we win our game in hand, we're 6th. 4 points off second. | | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 11:01 - Nov 6 with 519 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:54 - Nov 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Are you unable to read? I quite clearly didn't say that.
Why don't you tell us how many signings every club in the Championship has made, seeing as you've checked them all. No ChatGPT-ing!
You should remove the "Highlighting" bit from your signature, it's not needed. |
Comfortable that looking at the top 6 covered the point well enough thanks
Will leave others to assess whether using actual data to make a point or just using feels is a better approach 👍 | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 11:07 - Nov 6 with 488 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 11:01 - Nov 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Comfortable that looking at the top 6 covered the point well enough thanks
Will leave others to assess whether using actual data to make a point or just using feels is a better approach 👍 |
I've not checked the amount of signings for every club - I have seen how many have lost (and the amount) of key players. What bit of that are you still struggling with?
I'm done. You've been a troll since 2010, never offering anything constructive just taunting people with context free 'facts' and thinking you're clever. Spoiler alert, you're not. | |
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 11:48 - Nov 6 with 420 views | Churchman |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:09 - Nov 6 by itfcsuth |
Value now, significantly less than we paid.
How about the transfer idea that you don't have to follow the trends, and can still find real value for money in transfer market, if you have the right scouting, knowledge and negotiations. There is, and always will be a way to operate in the transfer market to find undervalued and modestly valued players that tactically and systemically add and improve your squad.
Our model of buying Championship galacticos, regardless of whether they suit our system or style, and overpaying in comparable to other players that have moved around the world - does not strike me as the perfect 'player trading' model.
PS, I was right on here when Philogene dropped one of the best individual collection of goals against Sheffield Utd, just like I have been when he has also gone missing for half the games this season - don't be a silly sausage.
PS, I've not once said KMc out, I am probably his biggest fan on here, and have stated that on this forum endless times as recent as Tuesday night - don't be a silly sausage. [Post edited 6 Nov 10:12]
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You only know (or crystallise) their ‘value’ if they are actually sold. Before that it is guessing - or a hope that enables you to beat up McKenna, Ashton, recruitment whoever and demonstrate your superior knowledge.
A way to find undervalued and modestly valued players? Who? Norwich spent half what we did. Have they added to their squad? Nope. The £50m worth of yellowness may flourish yet of course. It may not.
Transfers work out or they don’t. They carry risk. Plenty on here thought Muric’s fee was a complete waste of money. Thanks largely to the supporters, he has no future here so the transfer fee was wasted. Worth zero. £8m or whatever down the pan.
Or is it? We won’t know that until he is sold and it might well be if reports are he’s playing well and we get our money back. Good business? Not really because that £8m might have been better used elsewhere, but at least we won’t have lost much. Could be worse.
We got nothing back for Morsy - bar four good years service. Was that good or bad? Good of course. It’s as not simple when you are operating at a higher level than McCarthy having to scrape the barrel for punts or even Cook buying players for £1m in L1. The club was attractive for the level of player we were looking at. There’s far more competition up the food chain.
You like to throw out phrases like overpaying in comparable that have moved on around the world. Which players? Who? Were they all loitering in Planet Blue in the hope KM and the bearded one would rush out and sign them up for £2.50 and a free ill fitting training top? Of course not. If McKenna wanted Philogene, should the owners have said no, make do with Carlos from Villa Unreal for £2m?
They have explained what they are broadly trying to do in bringing players in. The trading model if you like. For Delap and Hutchinson it worked. Two players, two large fees, two profits in the bank. It’s not going to work every time, but I get the principle and that McKenna puts down what he wants to build a team and the club tries to fulfil that.
If you disagree that’s fine. KM and MA may be telling porkies. Call them out. Show them your evidence and your knowledge and head the charge to get them fired. If they’ve lied, I certainly want them gone.
Lastly it’s nothing to do with the players what fees are paid for them so they shouldn’t be beaten up for that. Judge them on performance and progress, but give them time and remember that if you are a Clarke or a Philogene or a Hirst and the service is poor or the team set up not right (no 10 position), don’t expect them to do much damage to the opposition.
Just a view and the last I shall give on this. |  | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 11:48 - Nov 6 with 420 views | jasondozzell |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 10:28 - Nov 6 by goperryrevs |
The problem is that your suggestion that KM & MA should 'man up and admit the transfer policy was wrong' as a solution for our struggles this season is totally unhelpful.
Firstly, MA has already spoken about how we've learned lessons regarding recruiting more physicality for the Premier League. But the idea that they'd come out in public and say something like "we recruited all the wrong players" is farcical. Do you think it'd motivate the players we have signed? Make them feel inspired and play better as a team?
Secondly, just because things aren't said in public doesn't mean they're not spoken about and reflected on in private. I'm sure that KM & MA have had a lot more reflections and ideas about how we can improve than most of the 'ideas' that negative fans come out with, including regarding recruitment. But they're not going to announce the content of all those discussions to the fans. Just as KM said about the spat between Azor and Jaden - fine behind closed doors on the training pitch, healthy even. But not during a game.
Sorry, but the OP has it right. I've got no problem with reasonable thoughtful criticism. But most of the negative posts on here and elsewhere seem to be:
- After we fail to win a game - as if those fans are wishing for us to fail so they can have a lovely rant, but then strangely disappear when we win.
- Single out players / management unnecessarily - which if I was a player reading it would definitely NOT motivate me or endear me to the fanbase.
- Offer nothing as a solution - or when there is a suggestion there's no substance to it.
Regarding Evans - yes, true. But that was for 14 years. Last season, given the context, we ended up where expected. This season we've struggled a bit for the first 13 games. And our struggles are nowhere near as bad as Leicester, Southampton or Sheffield United - all of which we expected to be up against near the top. It's not a comparable situation to the stagnation under Evans.
We are underachieving at the moment, and it's frustrating. But we've got the right people in the club to improve it, and they've got my full support. And they know a lot more than me. Personally, I feel that Akpom has the attributes to play upfront, and would love to see him there. But I don't see him in training, I don't have anywhere near the tactical awareness or understanding that our manager has, and I can imagine if I sat down with Kieran, that he'd patiently and thoroughly explain his thinking in detail as to why he's not played Akpom upfront yet.
I'm not singling you out at all here - this isn't aimed at you specifically, but when things aren't going as well as we want, it's easy to have a toddler fit and complain that we're not higher up in the table. But if there's not substance beyond "I want us to win more games" (everyone wants us to win more games), and the toxic entitlement has a negative effect, then what's the point? The answer is the players and management working harder, training harder and embedding the right patterns of play in this new team. And that's what'll be happening.
If you're going to complain, offer something constructive as a solution. But be prepared to have it pointed out that your solution has probably already been considered by the management, and might not be some magic bullet fix anyway. |
Fantastic post. You've articulated it all perfectly. [Post edited 6 Nov 11:49]
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| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 12:00 - Nov 6 with 400 views | tractorboy1978 |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 19:36 - Nov 5 by Churchman |
So what would you value them as now? Nothing because you think they’re all cr@p?
Given a club sets a selling price and we buy at whatever we are prepared to pay, am I right in assuming you would not have bought any of those players? There’s no third option. Pay the going rate that you can afford or copy the Norwich model. Sign nobody and trouser the cash.
So given you think we criminally overspent (whatever that actually means - presumably as McKenna approved the transfers you want him out?), who would you have bought?
Anyone but them? Kone? He was being waved about as a good cheapie a month ago. Shame he looked a L1 lump at best on Saturday.
Transfers carry risk. Some will work out, some won’t. Some one likes the look of and prove poor, others the opposite. Some are no brainer. I’ve seen Egeli. He’s going to be a terrific player that at worst will make this club a lot of money.
Same with loans. Like Phillips cost wages for the less than zilch he delivered and left our midfield nonexistent. We got nothing back. What did Cajuste deliver? Looked good but one goal and one assist. Whoopee. And in my view he’s less effective than Nunez now, despite the latter horrific miss last night.
Ignoring the profit on Omari and Liam (conveniently) if that £100m over the next two seasons = mid table mediocrity and a loss of £100m, it’ll constitute poor transfer business and money wasted. All with the luxury of hindsight. Until then it might be a radical idea for some to actually support and encourage these players rather than try and tear them down with their FM25 football knowledge at every opportunity.
Just once maybe, as opposed to disappearing when the team wins 4-1 or Philogene tears a team apart.
But hey, you be you. It’s all opinions. Keep moaning and piling in, keep enjoying defeats and less than perfect performances. You are fast becoming the majority which means those who don’t agree with you are probably best leaving the board to you.
Unless we win of course. The board had very different posters after Saturday for a few days. Strange that. |
We've definitely made a few poor signings for the money we have spent. I appreciate that you cannot foresee the injury but Ogbene is looking like being Ulrich Le Pen at about 8 x the cost. I'll be amazed if make anything other than a whopping loss on him. And he's been replaced by a player for £12m that it already feels like McKenna is having second thoughts on. | | | |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 12:18 - Nov 6 with 355 views | Churchman |
| It's going to be a season of tedious 'fans' on 12:00 - Nov 6 by tractorboy1978 |
We've definitely made a few poor signings for the money we have spent. I appreciate that you cannot foresee the injury but Ogbene is looking like being Ulrich Le Pen at about 8 x the cost. I'll be amazed if make anything other than a whopping loss on him. And he's been replaced by a player for £12m that it already feels like McKenna is having second thoughts on. |
Yes, Ogbene might turn out to be a poor signing; highly likely I’d say, especially after that injury. But we won’t truly know until he moves on. Same for one or two of the others. But for every one of them there will be others we do make a profit on and far more important to me, contribute to a team stronger than what got us promoted.
As for 8x the cost, Le Pen for less than one appearance cost £1.4m 24 years ago. Ogbene £8m so it’s actually 5.7x Le pen for 7 appearances ignoring transfer inflation over 23 years and any transfer fee we might get for him and assuming he’s finished here. Not great, but not quite Le Pen at8x the cost. | | | |
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