| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance 19:35 - Nov 23 with 3157 views | sundayroast |
- signed a number of players who clearly weren’t first picks, and the quality is lacking
- a rebuild if we were to somehow gain promotion this season (this set of players aren’t PL ready or much of an upgrade on what we had)
- zero assists from a huge number of our attacking players
- strikers that aren’t up to leading the line for us
- no pace up top to give the option of a through ball, and even if we did, would KM adapt to play that way?
- slow ponderous football
- so reliant on a good quality number 10, but that we don’t have.
- so much time spent in the summer not bringing in players, lack of gelling time, even though we are 1/3 of the season gone they look like strangers.
- look around and see people yawning, bored
- half time a telling time, people just shrugging shoulders with no excitement or bounce about them/what they’ve seen
- how does KM change this?
- are we AGAIN waiting for a transfer window to help us out?
At a bit of a loss to where we are currently. That said, I’ll be driving to Hull in the hope we see another good away win as per Swansea. But I can’t help but think things are a bit of a mess, despite the illusion that MA gives when he’s in front of a camera.
Being this far adrift of top spot I personally feel is a real kick in the gut, our aim this season (I believe) with the money spent and the wages flying about would/should have been 1st/2nd.
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:38 - Nov 23 with 2196 views | waveneyblue |
Glass half full then.
Thanks for sharing |  | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:41 - Nov 23 with 2185 views | Herbivore |
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that gets on people's tits. Reading that you'd think we're Norwich ffs. |  |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:45 - Nov 23 with 2154 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:38 - Nov 23 by waveneyblue |
Glass half full then.
Thanks for sharing |
If I wasn’t semi positive I’d not be heading to Hull, Blackburn etc. | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:46 - Nov 23 with 2149 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:41 - Nov 23 by Herbivore |
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that gets on people's tits. Reading that you'd think we're Norwich ffs. |
Some counter thoughts might help to develop a conversation on the points.
Happy to discuss and talk through them in a grown up manner, if that’s allowed [Post edited 23 Nov 19:49]
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:53 - Nov 23 with 2084 views | jimmyvet |
Yes imagine being second in-table past 10 games after a slow start , 18 points plus 6 GD, unlike our little neighbours minus 12 GD and 2 points. You almost post like a carrot cruncher ! | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:55 - Nov 23 with 2069 views | FrimleyBlue |
I think we are at a bit of a cross roads where a small % of our transfers in the past 18 months have been a success. So far.
Think in a season or two we will know for sure how many didnt come off.
As individuals most were upgrades on those they replaced as individuals. However our success imo was based on a team of misfits who complimented each other and their do or die attitudes helped to win us games.
Currently weve a fair few players with incredible. Unreal potential. But its maximising that potential but also in a way that works as a unit. And I think thats where it falls a bit flat. We may need further incoming to extract the next level of some of our players. However it may also be that some simply do not suit the style of KM and they simply won't compliment other players within the team.
Lots of our games are about patterns. Partnerships etc. That luongo. Broady davis triangle. The chappers burns doncacien triangle. Etc players that were all happy yo bring others into the game around them.
When you look at our side. We have a large number of players who prefer to keep the ball and do something with it for themselves. Am issue i feel we had in the prem last year
Philogene. Clarke. Akpom. Not ball sprayers and imo look for opportunities to score themselves over others. Not a fault nor a negative. Its a positive in a unit thats set up for that to work. Like clarke did when he was allowed to hug the touchline at Sunderland etc.
So yeah a tough one to call. Much we won't know until time passes. But I do think we have to many individual players over team ones. |  |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:56 - Nov 23 with 2065 views | jasondozzell |
We're 6 points off second with a game in hand. |  | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:57 - Nov 23 with 2052 views | LeoMuff |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:46 - Nov 23 by sundayroast |
Some counter thoughts might help to develop a conversation on the points.
Happy to discuss and talk through them in a grown up manner, if that’s allowed [Post edited 23 Nov 19:49]
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Not sure if on the whole quality is lacking, I think we thought Cajuste would be the midfield quality and for whatever reason he hasn’t been. The no 10 issue feels all our own making, while up front Hirst looked like he was going to smash pre season and he has struggled for form, Azon doesn’t look like a vast improvement on AAH to me.
All in all I would be getting in a quality midfielder as a priority and a striker and 10 in Jan. |  |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:59 - Nov 23 with 2047 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:56 - Nov 23 by jasondozzell |
We're 6 points off second with a game in hand. |
And that, if it goes to plan, is fantastic.
But based on the circus that was the Blackburn away fixture, I think we can all smell what’s coming. | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:59 - Nov 23 with 2039 views | Benters |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:56 - Nov 23 by jasondozzell |
We're 6 points off second with a game in hand. |
Don’t be so positive! |  |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:02 - Nov 23 with 2033 views | Illinoisblue |
No club ever gets it fully right on transfers. But we’ve gone from 500k or 1m mistakes such as Pan Camara and AAH to the best part of 20m on Ogbene and Mcateer who have had little to no impact. It feeds the frustration along with so-so home form.
But top six is very much in sight. |  |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:02 - Nov 23 with 2021 views | jasondozzell |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:59 - Nov 23 by sundayroast |
And that, if it goes to plan, is fantastic.
But based on the circus that was the Blackburn away fixture, I think we can all smell what’s coming. |
Well, that's that then. Better tell everyone the news that there will be no promotion party this year. | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:06 - Nov 23 with 1990 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 19:57 - Nov 23 by LeoMuff |
Not sure if on the whole quality is lacking, I think we thought Cajuste would be the midfield quality and for whatever reason he hasn’t been. The no 10 issue feels all our own making, while up front Hirst looked like he was going to smash pre season and he has struggled for form, Azon doesn’t look like a vast improvement on AAH to me.
All in all I would be getting in a quality midfielder as a priority and a striker and 10 in Jan. |
Those 3 positions you mention to bring in, that’s a massive % of our spine, it feels as though we’d then have another gelling period where we’re waiting for it to click.
You are of course correct though, that is what we need.
Begs the question, how was that not dealt with in the summer.
That’s where my frustrations are really | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:07 - Nov 23 with 1995 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:02 - Nov 23 by Illinoisblue |
No club ever gets it fully right on transfers. But we’ve gone from 500k or 1m mistakes such as Pan Camara and AAH to the best part of 20m on Ogbene and Mcateer who have had little to no impact. It feeds the frustration along with so-so home form.
But top six is very much in sight. |
We’ve made lots of mistakes in the market since promotion unfortunately, too many in my opinion. We have also got some fairly decent players in for this level, you’d bloody hope so with our net spend.
If this team will be good enough to get out of an average league time will tell. Should certainly have a decent chance still with McKenna but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s only a playoff season either and then not sure I’d fancy us. |  |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:08 - Nov 23 with 1979 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:02 - Nov 23 by jasondozzell |
Well, that's that then. Better tell everyone the news that there will be no promotion party this year. |
Right, ok | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:26 - Nov 23 with 1900 views | Illinoisblue |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:07 - Nov 23 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
We’ve made lots of mistakes in the market since promotion unfortunately, too many in my opinion. We have also got some fairly decent players in for this level, you’d bloody hope so with our net spend.
If this team will be good enough to get out of an average league time will tell. Should certainly have a decent chance still with McKenna but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s only a playoff season either and then not sure I’d fancy us. |
Kalvin Philips was a massive disappointment. Worth a punt at the time, I guess. It’s been done to death but is Greaves for 12mill any better than Wolfy or Burgess? Hard to see it.
I still think 2nd place is very much up for grabs. | |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:27 - Nov 23 with 1873 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:26 - Nov 23 by Illinoisblue |
Kalvin Philips was a massive disappointment. Worth a punt at the time, I guess. It’s been done to death but is Greaves for 12mill any better than Wolfy or Burgess? Hard to see it.
I still think 2nd place is very much up for grabs. |
It probably will be yes, big few weeks ahead.
Play Cov twice in a month as well. | |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:32 - Nov 23 with 1828 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:26 - Nov 23 by Illinoisblue |
Kalvin Philips was a massive disappointment. Worth a punt at the time, I guess. It’s been done to death but is Greaves for 12mill any better than Wolfy or Burgess? Hard to see it.
I still think 2nd place is very much up for grabs. |
It’s only ever been about the players potential sell on fees in my opinion. If a deal is waved under MAs nose he takes it.
Akpom for example. Doesn’t fit this system at all. Looks clumsy and confused on the ball at times, but that’s because he’s getting the ball in areas that he’s not effective.
Not much joined up thinking across the pitch, just (as firmly points out) individuals doing their own thing | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:33 - Nov 23 with 1835 views | homer_123 |
OK, here goes...
- signed a number of players who clearly weren’t first picks, and the quality is lacking [H] - Matsi, Egeli, Furlong, Cajuste are all starters, even Kipre to a point. However, we know KM looks at the 'squad' and the squad is definitely better.
- a rebuild if we were to somehow gain promotion this season (this set of players aren’t PL ready or much of an upgrade on what we had) [H] - yes but this was always going to be the case, so this is no surprise.
- zero assists from a huge number of our attacking players [H] Hirst, Egli, Nunez all have assists but granted, we could have more from the likes of Clarke, Jaden and Akpom.
- strikers that aren’t up to leading the line for us [H] - I would say that Hirst (early doors) was probably trying a touch too hard (Delap'esq) but has settled and started to deliver what KM wants from that lone striker, not perfect but he absolutely can and does lead the line. You need to actually watch him play, the work he does off the ball, the runs he makes where a pass isn't played into him and then factor in the work he does to start a press, or harry or chase. Azon is interesting as he has a number of those attributes and I do think he can lead the line for us as well.
- no pace up top to give the option of a through ball, and even if we did, would KM adapt to play that way? [H] - KM doesn't play that way with a pacey out and out sprinter up top but we do have pace throughout the team. But I can tell you know, pace doesn't unlock a low block. Because the think you need for pace to work is space in behind and a low block doesn't offer that.
- slow ponderous football [H] - I still believe many fans don't understand how KM plays or sets up his teams. There are times in a match where you need to move the ball quickly and where you need to slow it down. If we've gone all out for 20 mins, maybe we need to slow it down, keep possession, let players recover? Yes, there are times when we need to move the ball quickly, to drag players out of possession, to create passing lanes etc. And we have done that this season. Have we got it right all the time? No.
- so reliant on a good quality number 10, but that we don’t have. [H] I would agree, this is the one point you have right. At the moment, none of the players we have are giving what we need in this position. Chappers is the player, IMO, we are missing the most at the moment.
- so much time spent in the summer not bringing in players, lack of gelling time, even though we are 1/3 of the season gone they look like strangers. [H] - signing players isn't as simple or as straightforward as fans think. A player may simply not be available early doors and a deal not possible until late in the window. Egeli, for example, a player with options to choose from is going to take their time to choose, why rush?
- look around and see people yawning, bored [H] - who? Players, fans? I don't know what this means?
- half time a telling time, people just shrugging shoulders with no excitement or bounce about them/what they’ve seen [H] - again, fans, players? Sometimes, matches are dull, the result doesn't go your way. Wrexham came to go a job, sat and had little to no intent....it's not going to make a spectacle of a game.
- how does KM change this? [H] - We are 8th with a game in hand, do we need to change?
- are we AGAIN waiting for a transfer window to help us out? [H] - I think the approach will be the same, can we improve the squad during a window, if we can we will. [Post edited 23 Nov 20:34]
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:45 - Nov 23 with 1763 views | Swansea_Blue |
- signed a number of players who clearly weren’t first picks, and the quality is lacking
Who are you including in that? The only non-regular starter I can think of is McAteer and he still made 28 PL appearances last season.
- a rebuild if we were to somehow gain promotion this season (this set of players aren’t PL ready or much of an upgrade on what we had)
Possibly not PL ready. However, that isn’t our problem right now. Our signings have all played PL or been top Championship players (multiple golden boot winners, former club captains, etc).
- zero assists from a huge number of our attacking players
Agreed, but it’s not down to individual quality as they’ve shown before they can do it.
- strikers that aren’t up to leading the line for us
Were a bit thin in this department, but our main striker lead the line for us in a former promotion season, so can do it.
- no pace up top to give the option of a through ball, and even if we did, would KM adapt to play that way?
We’ve got pace, but hard to use when teams set up with a low block of 541 like Wrexham did
- slow ponderous football
See above
-- so reliant on a good quality number 10, but that we don’t have.
We have them (two recent golden boot winners), but it’s not clicking and we’re not playing to their strengths, agreed.
- so much time spent in the summer not bringing in players, lack of gelling time, even though we are 1/3 of the season gone they look like strangers.
We’ve brought in a whole new team (11 players) spending more than anyone else, all 1st team challengers. Everyone has the same time, but yes they’re not a well-drilled team yet.
- look around and see people yawning, bored
This would need multiple threads to unravel. We’re always quiet, we’ve been spoilt rotten in recent seasons, people lack any resilience and back bone these days. We’re hardly in Evans/MickMa territory when people were deserting us in their droves. Sport’s not got a pre-determined outcome; sometimes you win, sometimes draw, sometimes lose. People need to stop being so entitled and precious, grow a backbone and support the team (or feck off, that’s also an option of course for anyone who can’t deal with the ups and downs).
- half time a telling time, people just shrugging shoulders with no excitement or bounce about them/what they’ve seen
See above. Plus we need dancing girls at HT.
- how does KM change this?
Carries on doing what he’s doing I suspect. We’re not far off, making chances and not losing games. I know everyone thought we’d romp the league, but welcome to reality. There’s not a lot else he can do short of buying a lump up top and going long, but I doubt any of us want that sort of football. Although he could reiterate the b value of the team and how the ball can work harder than players. Far too many are trying to do things on their own.
- are we AGAIN waiting for a transfer window to help us out?
No. He’s got an abundance of talent already and needs to make it work. [Post edited 23 Nov 21:08]
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:06 - Nov 23 with 1662 views | LeoMuff |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 20:06 - Nov 23 by sundayroast |
Those 3 positions you mention to bring in, that’s a massive % of our spine, it feels as though we’d then have another gelling period where we’re waiting for it to click.
You are of course correct though, that is what we need.
Begs the question, how was that not dealt with in the summer.
That’s where my frustrations are really |
Think we tried but it’s exceptionally hard to buy for automatic championship as the prem hoovers up those at that level that may play higher and those players are looking for prem moves.
We tried to get Guiu in and Hackney but they didnt work out. | |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:08 - Nov 23 with 1653 views | SomethingBlue |
You do know we have 11 points from our last five games and are a point off the play-offs with a game in hand? What a mess indeed! [Post edited 23 Nov 21:09]
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:26 - Nov 23 with 1570 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:08 - Nov 23 by SomethingBlue |
You do know we have 11 points from our last five games and are a point off the play-offs with a game in hand? What a mess indeed! [Post edited 23 Nov 21:09]
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We are allowed to have different opinions | | | |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:28 - Nov 23 with 1559 views | SomethingBlue |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:26 - Nov 23 by sundayroast |
We are allowed to have different opinions |
We certainly are. | |
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| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:32 - Nov 23 with 1547 views | sundayroast |
| Some thoughts - no structure to the post so apologise in advance on 21:06 - Nov 23 by LeoMuff |
Think we tried but it’s exceptionally hard to buy for automatic championship as the prem hoovers up those at that level that may play higher and those players are looking for prem moves.
We tried to get Guiu in and Hackney but they didnt work out. |
And this is what I mean, we ended up with Akpom who isn’t a natural fit of us in that role. As per SS playing there too.
Just really frustrating to be in this position when we should be one up on other clubs having the parachute payments etc. | | | |
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