Forum | When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? by portmanking

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When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? 09:07 - Dec 3 with 2128 views

If things continue to drift like this through December, do we carry on backing McKenna out of blind faith? Are we happy to write the season off and go again next year with McKenna in the hope that it clicks in 26/27?! Comfortably the weakest Champ league I've seen in years and we're blowing it big style.

The lack of team spirit and personality in last night's team was hugely evident for me. The current side almost feels too structured, with our flair players not allowed to play off the cuff. The back-to-back side had a clear structure, but they played with real fluidity too.

Surely it's okay to love and respect McKenna for what he's done with us in the last four years but question the direction we're heading in? That's a balanced view, right? I haven't seen Kieran look that angry in a long time. Looked like he was chewing a wasp for most of that second half.

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:43 - Dec 3 with 337 views

TRUE_BLUE123

*When should* the difficult questions be asked then?** on 10:39 - Dec 3 by itfcsuth
Agree with this 100%. As fustrating as this season has been so far, and as sub par as performances have been, and I will still vent frustration as we go with what I see in front of me, because that’s the emotion of been a football fan. One thing I am adamant on and will double down on, KMc remains untouchable for me. [Post edited 3 Dec 10:39]

Same position for me.

I am no way happy about what I am seeing on the pitch, but I have full trust in Mckenna. The reason I didn't want him to go to Brighton, Chelsea, United or Celtic are the same reasons I don't want him sacked. I don't see an option out there that I would rather have than Mckenna, not even close.

Also, he is still only 39 years old, will still be learning loads about management and I want and think the club will give him the time to do so.

Poll:

Will Paul Lambert be Ipswich Town manager on the final day of this season ?

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:44 - Dec 3 with 332 views

TractorWood

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:32 - Dec 3 by itfcsuth

I think everybody involved will be aware where we are is not the level we need to be at, and suspect there are constant conversations about how we get there.

But KMc remains untouchable at this stage.

As I noted elsewhere, we are where we were in 21/22, when we were building a Championship squad L1, we didn’t get that recruitment of the squad right instantly, players like Pigott, Fraser, Harper and Penney are examples.

We are one step ahead now, building a PL squad in the Championship, and we certainly haven’t got the recruitment of the squad correctly instantly this time around.

We are still sniffing around the play-offs, despite such sub standard performance levels, it’s not horrendous position to be in, but still so much work to do to get us to where we want. KMc, Ashton and co will be aware of this themselves.

Building a PL squad in the championship?

🤣

	I know that was then, but it could be again..
Poll:	At present who do you think you'll vote for?

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:45 - Dec 3 with 330 views

TownieRob

I’m with you on this completely. The drop-off isn’t just a bad run of performances, it feels like the whole identity has gone missing. The intensity, tempo, fluidity… all vanished. That doesn’t just randomly happen after years of a properly drilled side.

I'm honestly also starting to believe a lot of these signings aren’t actually McKenna signings. Some of them look like pure data-led “investment buys.” Greaves, Philogene, Clarke… they all fit that model of young, athletic, high resale potential. Then Kipré and definitely Furlong. They don’t scream McKenna players to me.

Last night the team looked like they were playing inside a straightjacket. No personality, no freedom. McKenna’s promotion side had structure but also real fluidity and expression. As you have said, this lot look over-structured and no-one even looks bothered.

And it’s absolutely fine to respect everything McKenna’s done and still question the direction. Even he looked properly fed up for most of the second half.

Something feels really off.

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:48 - Dec 3 with 306 views

TractorWood

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:45 - Dec 3 by TownieRob

Agree. The back to back was done on a consistent set of players deeply invested in McKs style and philosophy. We got much more than sum of the parts through buy in and leadership.

Fast forward to now. We have a load of really expensive strangers, who are constantly changed, crucially with no leaders.

The philosophy is the same but the approach is much changed and it's currently failing.

	I know that was then, but it could be again..
Poll:	At present who do you think you'll vote for?

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:54 - Dec 3 with 288 views

portmanking

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:45 - Dec 3 by TownieRob

The point re. no-one even looks bothered...

How many of this squad would genuinely stand a chance at being a PL regular for ITFC?

Davis, Egeli and Matusiwa at an absolute push? You only have to look at the Sunderland side vs Bournemouth on Sat - only 1-2 faces from their playoff-winning team.

There's little appetite amongst most of these yo-yo players as they *think* they are too good for this level but it's patently obvious they aren't cut out for the league above too.

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 11:01 - Dec 3 with 259 views

TownieRob

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:54 - Dec 3 by portmanking

Agree with all your points.

Another way I look at it is this, how many of our players would a lower-end Premier League side genuinely be interested in this January? With the money we have spent, we should be in a position where we’re constantly fighting to keep hold of players because higher-league clubs want them. Right now, I honestly don’t think we have one who fits that bracket (at a push DOS). Even the lads you mentioned aren’t walking into any PL side.

And when you look at recruitment… it’s interesting how little BJ is playing now. He was miles off it last year and he’s still miles off it even with our poor performances. Is that almost an admission that they got that one wrong?

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 11:07 - Dec 3 with 245 views

portmanking

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 11:01 - Dec 3 by TownieRob

Oh, regarding BJ, he's definitely one they got wrong. The club tried everything they could to flog him in the summer.

I may be in a minority but I still don't see the fascination with O'Shea. Not remotely dominant on the ball and by no means the tallest to dominate aerially, despite having good power in the air. He's not a talker either. Was it really a surprise that he was part of two relegation seasons before joining us?!

In summary, too many players happy to coin it in on top-whack Champ salaries and not having the drive to go further.

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 11:31 - Dec 3 with 209 views

TownieRob

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 11:07 - Dec 3 by portmanking

My West Ham supporting mate actually said when we signed him that he wouldn’t be in our team by Christmas and that was without even watching us. “Jack of all positions, master of none.” That couldn’t be truer, could it?

On DOS, I wasn’t a huge fan at first either. I didn’t see the supposed £15m improvement on Wolf. But he’s grown on me. He’s not a bad defender at all, gets plenty of (buzzword incoming) first contacts , he’s decent enough on the ball and he moves well about the pitch for a CB. Is he a £15m upgrade? I’m still not sure. But I do now understand why he starts every week.

As for the rest, there’s clearly a reason why so many of these lads have played in the Prem and never properly established themselves. The two that genuinely could have made it did get their moves back to the PL in the summer and rightly so.

I said when we went up to the PL that the approach looked scattergun, and I said the same again this summer. We’ve signed around £150m worth of talent and yet people are crying out for Burns and Chappers to come back in. Jack Taylor is suddenly in our best XI (which I’m not against at all), and Walton is back in nets (again, no problem with that), but it tells a story.

Data-led recruitment, investment-led signings, decisions coming from above… whatever the strategy is, it hasn’t worked so far.

One point to note, I think people forget, me included sometimes because of how fast the success came and McKenna is still a young manager. He will make mistakes, and he will need help in certain areas. Is that what he needs at the minute? - It wont mask over the apparently poor recruitment but it could help?

[Post edited 3 Dec 11:32]

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:05 - Dec 3 with 173 views

Zx1988

*When should* the difficult questions be asked then?** on 09:14 - Dec 3 by Marshalls_Mullet
Questions should also be asked of Ashton in terms of recruitment etc.

Aren't those the sort of questions that a Chairman should be asking of his CE... Oh.

	You ain't a beauty but, hey, you're alright.
Poll:	Stone Island - immediate associations

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:18 - Dec 3 with 151 views

Sharkey

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:24 - Dec 3 by BseaBlue

I made a bit of a joke on here the other day about the players that start all being in competition with each other to earn their places back on the bench.

Maybe it is the lack of consistency and the chopping and changing but it really does feel that the players are not taking their opportunity when they in the starting 11. Probably doesn't help knowing that you will be on the bench the next game regardless though.

I know he's not everybody's cup of tea as a pundit, but I thought Mills was interesting a couple of weeks ago during a match commentary (or just after) when he said that Town have 'too many players'. He said you're allowed 25, and Town get cheque book out to fill that. He said if you were allowed 30, Town would fill that too. He would prefer a squad with about three or four fewer 'senior players' ,supplemented with three or four 'up-and-coming' players. (Maybe not exactly the phrase he used.) if you're in the team, the shirt is yours until your form drops off. (included in this, I guess, is the implication that you don't have to train THAT hard as long as you're doing the business on a Saturday, though Mills didn't actually spell that out.) if you're not in the team, you work like hell in training to try and get in the team. if some of the up-and-coming players break into the first team, all the better.

To some I guess that will sound like a blast from the distant past (and maybe even strange from Mills when we think how overstretched the squad was in 1981) , but to me it made sense, and I think I could hear Brenner nodding in agreement.

[Post edited 3 Dec 12:51]

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:35 - Dec 3 with 139 views

HighgateBlue

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:45 - Dec 3 by TownieRob

Completely agree with all of this, with one exception.

If signings are not working out, I don't think it's justifiable to leap to the conclusion that they therefore can't be McKenna signings. Unless we're told otherwise, it seems to me that the more natural conclusion is that McKenna has made some huge mistakes in the transfer market.

In my view, a manager should be judged on performance versus budget. On that measure, McKenna is currently drastically underperforming. That doesn't mean I'm "McKenna out", but he is currently underperforming. More and more fans are starting to realise/refuse to deny that.

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:38 - Dec 3 with 133 views

HighgateBlue

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:48 - Dec 3 by jasondozzell

It's insane imo and really entitled stuff.

Look at the league table. It really isn't a disaster. Look at those sides in the top 6. What do you notice? I notice that they are sides that have been together with their manager for a good spell of time.

Compare that to us. KM has had 13 or so games with effectively a new squad and team.

'Wtite off the season'. It's just crazy talk. We've not been anywhere near as good as we need to be but equally we're nowhere near as bad as people are making out.

We need to improve. There is no manager I back to do that more than KM.

I feel like some of our support have no idea about the championship.

McKenna has been our manager for a good while. For the record, I don't want that to end.

But if he's not been with his current players for very long, it's because he decided to bin off the successful ones and replace them with hugely expensive lesser models. If that works, he gets the credit. If it doesn't, it is legitimate to criticise him.

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:46 - Dec 3 with 104 views

EddyJ

I'm not McKenna out yet. I still hope he turns it around and if he does go, he will go with my good feeling for two very good years.

However, 18 months is a long time in football. We have looked really poor during that period. Being 18 games into a very poor Championship and still looking like a team of strangers is the biggest worry.

There are 6 games left in December. Some really juicy games against promotion candidates in there. That feels like a good and fair test of McKenna. By the end of December, I expect two things from him:

1) We should be in touching distance of the automatic spots. I won't put a point tally on it, but we need to be close.

2) We should have a settled first team, playing with a focussed play style.

If we do not pass both of those tests, I may become "McKenna out".

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:47 - Dec 3 with 102 views

portmanking

*When should* the difficult questions be asked then?** on 12:38 - Dec 3 by HighgateBlue
McKenna has been our manager for a good while. For the record, I don't want that to end. But if he's not been with his current players for very long, it's because he decided to bin off the successful ones and replace them with hugely expensive lesser models. If that works, he gets the credit. If it doesn't, it is legitimate to criticise him.

Listen, we're all McKenna fans, aren't we? He's cemented in our folklore. But he's not immune from scrutiny, surely?

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:52 - Dec 3 with 87 views

TownieRob

When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 12:35 - Dec 3 by HighgateBlue

There are two big reasons why I don’t think all of these transfers are mainly down to him.

1. I simply don’t want it to be on him, because I can’t believe he would have got so many wrong, which is how it’s looking right now.
2. He’s one of the brightest young coaches in the game, with a proper academy and technical background. I just can’t picture him sitting there saying, “Yeah, what we really need is Darnell Furlong from West Brom,” can you? And even Akpom at 29, or Kipré to an extent… they feel miles off what his ‘type’ of player would be.

Don’t ask me what his type even is anymore, because I’m not sure myself given how some of the others haven’t worked out either. But those three definitely don’t fit the profile, I'd expect him to push for.

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