| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch 13:22 - Dec 9 with 1582 views | DJR |
From her speech this morning
"Adam Smith once said, “There is a lot of ruin in a nation.”
For all that is going wrong now, and let’s be honest has gone wrong in the past, nations can absorb shocks.
The financial crisis, Brexit, Covid.
Countries with strong institutions and productive people do not collapse overnight.
Even foolish policies take time to do real, lasting damage.
A crisis is serious, but it is not fatal unless governments keep repeating the mistakes.
We made mistakes in government, but we have learned from them."
Do you think she realises what she said?  |  | | |  |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:33 - Dec 9 with 1194 views | BlueBadger |
The comeback to this will of course be 'we didn't do enough Brexiting' rather than 'we shouldn't have Brexited, what the hell was I thinking'. |  |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:34 - Dec 9 with 1206 views | GlasgowBlue |
A question for you. Here’s the cumulative real GDP growth for Europe’s four biggest economies since Q1 2020: 9%, 7.5%, 6.2%, 2.1%. Which one left the EU? |  |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:38 - Dec 9 with 1154 views | BlueBadger |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:34 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
A question for you. Here’s the cumulative real GDP growth for Europe’s four biggest economies since Q1 2020: 9%, 7.5%, 6.2%, 2.1%. Which one left the EU? |
It's easier to look like you're growing more if you've shrunk a lot harder than everyone else in the first place. | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:39 - Dec 9 with 1152 views | bournemouthblue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:33 - Dec 9 by BlueBadger |
The comeback to this will of course be 'we didn't do enough Brexiting' rather than 'we shouldn't have Brexited, what the hell was I thinking'. |
That still appears to be the opinion of many Brexiters, being the wrong type of Brexit
I'm still awaiting to see what the right type of Brexit was
I was speaking to someone the other day who wanted a more protectionist approach, I argued you probably wanted Corbyn negotiating it then rather than rabid free market maniacs who were suggesting under cutting Europe with inferior products, services and Labour from outside the EU from all good guys like China and USA for example |  |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:43 - Dec 9 with 1115 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:38 - Dec 9 by BlueBadger |
It's easier to look like you're growing more if you've shrunk a lot harder than everyone else in the first place. |
What point do you consider "the first place"? | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:47 - Dec 9 with 1088 views | BlueBadger |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:43 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
What point do you consider "the first place"? |
Since 'first quarter 2020'. The UK experienced a 10.3% contraction to GDP in 2020 The EU averaged out at 6.1. | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:49 - Dec 9 with 1070 views | WeWereZombies |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:43 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
What point do you consider "the first place"? |
There is no first place, space/time is thought to be a continuum and we have to make informed judgements based on what we can perceive. |  |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:54 - Dec 9 with 1044 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:47 - Dec 9 by BlueBadger |
Since 'first quarter 2020'. The UK experienced a 10.3% contraction to GDP in 2020 The EU averaged out at 6.1. |
You still don't seem to grasp this. We are still outperforming 2 of the other three big 4 in Europe.
You're referencing the economic impact of the COVID-19 which it the UK harder than most. That isn't Brexit related. | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:04 - Dec 9 with 972 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:54 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
You still don't seem to grasp this. We are still outperforming 2 of the other three big 4 in Europe.
You're referencing the economic impact of the COVID-19 which it the UK harder than most. That isn't Brexit related. |
"Julian Jessop is Chief Economist and Head of the Brexit Unit at the IEA"
The "politics of the IEA" can refer to two different organizations: the UK-based Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), a right-wing free-market think tank that promotes deregulation, low taxes, and increased fossil fuel use, often clashing with regulators over its campaigning
Righto |  | | |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:10 - Dec 9 with 938 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:04 - Dec 9 by reusersfreekicks |
"Julian Jessop is Chief Economist and Head of the Brexit Unit at the IEA"
The "politics of the IEA" can refer to two different organizations: the UK-based Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), a right-wing free-market think tank that promotes deregulation, low taxes, and increased fossil fuel use, often clashing with regulators over its campaigning
Righto |
The data comes from the OECD. Now rather than shooting the messenger, are you disputing the data?
I disagree profoundly with Owen Jones. But if he quoted data from the OECD I'd look rather silly of I disputed the data because I disagree with the bloke posting t. [Post edited 9 Dec 14:12]
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:14 - Dec 9 with 911 views | StokieBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:54 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
You still don't seem to grasp this. We are still outperforming 2 of the other three big 4 in Europe.
You're referencing the economic impact of the COVID-19 which it the UK harder than most. That isn't Brexit related. |
Outperformance of other EU countries isn't really relevant.
The studies are showing we are underperforming where we would have been without Brexit both historically and over the next decade, that's what is relevant.
SB |  | | |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:18 - Dec 9 with 888 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:54 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
You still don't seem to grasp this. We are still outperforming 2 of the other three big 4 in Europe.
You're referencing the economic impact of the COVID-19 which it the UK harder than most. That isn't Brexit related. |
So Brexit has made other major European countries poorer too? Makes sense I guess but not sure we should be celebrating it as a win. There's a lot of research out there that's a bit more sophisticated than a graph with a unicorn on it: https://www.nber.org/papers/w34459 [Post edited 9 Dec 14:18]
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:19 - Dec 9 with 877 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:34 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
A question for you. Here’s the cumulative real GDP growth for Europe’s four biggest economies since Q1 2020: 9%, 7.5%, 6.2%, 2.1%. Which one left the EU? |
Is it the one that would have been somewhere between 4 and 8 points higher, depending upon which reports you believe. |  |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:27 - Dec 9 with 831 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:19 - Dec 9 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Is it the one that would have been somewhere between 4 and 8 points higher, depending upon which reports you believe. |
The way Brexit has been handled has been an absolute sh1t show and, desite voting to leave, I would vote to rejoin tomorrow because it's made us a more divisive and nasty society. I think the economic benefits of Brexit are few and far between as well. But you honestly think we’d have vastly outperformed the rest of Europe of we’d stayed in? When did that last happen?
Anyway, no body has bothered answering the question I posed so I'll repeat: Here’s the cumulative real GDP growth for Europe’s four biggest economies since Q1 2020: 9%, 7.5%, 6.2%, 2.1%. Which one left the EU? It can't be that hard to answer. [Post edited 9 Dec 14:29]
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:37 - Dec 9 with 778 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:27 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
The way Brexit has been handled has been an absolute sh1t show and, desite voting to leave, I would vote to rejoin tomorrow because it's made us a more divisive and nasty society. I think the economic benefits of Brexit are few and far between as well. But you honestly think we’d have vastly outperformed the rest of Europe of we’d stayed in? When did that last happen?
Anyway, no body has bothered answering the question I posed so I'll repeat: Here’s the cumulative real GDP growth for Europe’s four biggest economies since Q1 2020: 9%, 7.5%, 6.2%, 2.1%. Which one left the EU? It can't be that hard to answer. [Post edited 9 Dec 14:29]
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Why are you focusing solely on the first quarter of 2020 onwards when the impact of Brexit began to hit and accumulate from the morning after the referendum? Take a look at the link I posted, actual proper research rather than a graph with a unicorn on it (which is admittedly an appropriate metaphor for Brexit but not a great bit of analysis). [Post edited 9 Dec 22:43]
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:37 - Dec 9 with 780 views | StokieBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:27 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
The way Brexit has been handled has been an absolute sh1t show and, desite voting to leave, I would vote to rejoin tomorrow because it's made us a more divisive and nasty society. I think the economic benefits of Brexit are few and far between as well. But you honestly think we’d have vastly outperformed the rest of Europe of we’d stayed in? When did that last happen?
Anyway, no body has bothered answering the question I posed so I'll repeat: Here’s the cumulative real GDP growth for Europe’s four biggest economies since Q1 2020: 9%, 7.5%, 6.2%, 2.1%. Which one left the EU? It can't be that hard to answer. [Post edited 9 Dec 14:29]
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That nastiness was there with the campaigning for all to see.
There were never any economic benefits of Brexit as the remain side clearly and accurately laid out before the vote.
These aren't new things and both were visible during the campaigning.
As for your edit, it's an irrelevant question as I've pointed out.
SB | | | |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:45 - Dec 9 with 712 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:37 - Dec 9 by Herbivore |
Why are you focusing solely on the first quarter of 2020 onwards when the impact of Brexit began to hit and accumulate from the morning after the referendum? Take a look at the link I posted, actual proper research rather than a graph with a unicorn on it (which is admittedly an appropriate metaphor for Brexit but not a great bit of analysis). [Post edited 9 Dec 22:43]
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Because that's when we left the EU. | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:46 - Dec 9 with 712 views | iamatractorboy |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 13:54 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
You still don't seem to grasp this. We are still outperforming 2 of the other three big 4 in Europe.
You're referencing the economic impact of the COVID-19 which it the UK harder than most. That isn't Brexit related. |
My alternartive, superficial and unscientific, take on that graph is that we haven't done any better than France, so Brexit has at best done b*gger all to improve GDP. Incidentally I wonder what a graph of living standards/quality of life (if there's a handy metric for those) would show. GDP ain't the be all and end all of how people are doing. |  | | |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:46 - Dec 9 with 710 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:37 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
That nastiness was there with the campaigning for all to see.
There were never any economic benefits of Brexit as the remain side clearly and accurately laid out before the vote.
These aren't new things and both were visible during the campaigning.
As for your edit, it's an irrelevant question as I've pointed out.
SB |
Irrelevant or inconvenient? | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:46 - Dec 9 with 707 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:45 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Because that's when we left the EU. |
Weak sauce, Glassers. | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:48 - Dec 9 with 700 views | nrb1985 |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:14 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
Outperformance of other EU countries isn't really relevant.
The studies are showing we are underperforming where we would have been without Brexit both historically and over the next decade, that's what is relevant.
SB |
This this and this again.
Utterly irrelevant what other countries are doing - it is about how we have performed relative to potential. | | | |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:50 - Dec 9 with 693 views | J2BLUE |
I don't think it matters. As Labour are now proving, what you say in opposition has no impact on how you act in government.
Party politics is a cancer to society. Especially when combined with FPTP. My interest in politics is at an all time low. They use the same tricks, tell us the same BS, lie, twist things and gaslight us frequently by telling us we want something different to what we actually want. |  |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:51 - Dec 9 with 685 views | StokieBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:46 - Dec 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Irrelevant or inconvenient? |
Irrelevant as I've explained.
Inconvenient for you? Absolutely.
SB | | | |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:52 - Dec 9 with 679 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:48 - Dec 9 by nrb1985 |
This this and this again.
Utterly irrelevant what other countries are doing - it is about how we have performed relative to potential. |
So what you are saying is we should have stayed in the EU, retained a Tory government and we'd all be swimming in cash? | |
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| Brexit damaged the economy: copyright Kemi Badenoch on 14:52 - Dec 9 with 680 views | Swansea_Blue |
She'll have no idea what she's said. Dimmer than a candle that one.
I can only speak from personal experience, but Brexit's been an utter sh*tshow. We're now poorer, have fewer opportunities and there's more bureaucracy/hassle for getting things done. Throw in the broadly related punitive, racist-placating immigration regime the Tories introduced and then Labour doubled down on and we've shot ourselves in both feet, not just one. |  |
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