| Not much mention of Trump confirming 16:28 - Dec 9 with 1179 views | giant_stow |
He wants to back Russia and interfer in european elections. Seems like a pretty big deal to me. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 16:34 - Dec 9 with 1115 views | NthQldITFC |
Time to ostracise that backward country until they come to their senses and turn their backs on facile, nationalistic politics.
New Europe all the way. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 16:42 - Dec 9 with 1080 views | giant_stow |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 16:34 - Dec 9 by NthQldITFC |
Time to ostracise that backward country until they come to their senses and turn their backs on facile, nationalistic politics.
New Europe all the way. |
It certainly seems like appeasing and bowing down to him isnt working. Personally, i rhought that was worth a go, but that was clearly wrong. | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:07 - Dec 9 with 997 views | DJR |
I was going to post something but hadn't got round to it.
The document itself strikes me as more driven by J D Vance and Project 25 than by Trump but that is not to excuse him. It is certainly indicative of the direction of travel, especially if someone like Vance becomes President: Trump can at least be persuaded by the last person he spoke to, but Vance strikes me as just nasty.
The following passages are particularly distasteful.
"But this economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect of
civilizational erasure. The larger issues facing Europe include activities of the
European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and
sovereignty, migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating
strife, censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition, cratering
birthrates, and loss of national identities and self-confidence."
"American diplomacy should continue to stand up for genuine democracy, freedom
of expression, and unapologetic celebrations of European nations’ individual
character and history. America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote
this revival of spirit, and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed
gives cause for great optimism." |  | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:08 - Dec 9 with 992 views | Guthrum |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 16:34 - Dec 9 by NthQldITFC |
Time to ostracise that backward country until they come to their senses and turn their backs on facile, nationalistic politics.
New Europe all the way. |
Problem is, it's very difficult to ostracise the world's largest economy, most powerful military and a country with which we've been deeply entwined for 80+ years. Not to mention they have the power, wealth and influence to hurt us if spurned. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:12 - Dec 9 with 965 views | Churchman |
Well, Trump makes a good point about Europe talking and not doing. On that he is right. Look at the U.K. - promises to do this and do that but it’s doing less than nothing because successive governments have done nothing but pillage and hollow out defence. This and the last governments have had their heads in the sand for years now feeding off the peace dividend. Still doing it too.
Promises to increase spending to less than half what it needs to be possibly by 2034 isn’t going to cut it. Like fresh water crocodiles in Egypt, they’re in de nile. And don’t tell me there’s no money. The Chancellor found bucket loads for what interested her in the budget, just like the tories threw it around like confetti during Covid and when they started to wet the bed over the Brexit shambles.
Trump and Putin understand power. There is no ‘wrong’, just strength and weakness. If you can take what you want it’s yours. Literally nothing else matters to them. These are very very simple men. No amount of talk, empty promises a handshake with King Charley, free suit and designer free glasses is going to change that.
Trump vision is a world with spheres of influence. Russia has Europe, America their continent and parts of the far east and China the rest. A peaceful world. So why shouldn’t Putin determine elections here? Might is right.
Unless the weedy Europeans want to do something about it, which bar those under imminent threat, is unlikely. |  | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:13 - Dec 9 with 966 views | Radlett_blue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:08 - Dec 9 by Guthrum |
Problem is, it's very difficult to ostracise the world's largest economy, most powerful military and a country with which we've been deeply entwined for 80+ years. Not to mention they have the power, wealth and influence to hurt us if spurned. |
Exactly. Does Europe want Trump to abandon NATO - which he conceivably might do?
Trump was right to cajole European countries for neglecting defence & leaving USA as their defender - why should the USA do this, when China is now their rival superpower?
That's why Ukraine is in such a bind - it isn't America's war but the Europeans don't have the stomach for it. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:30 - Dec 9 with 922 views | mellowblue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:12 - Dec 9 by Churchman |
Well, Trump makes a good point about Europe talking and not doing. On that he is right. Look at the U.K. - promises to do this and do that but it’s doing less than nothing because successive governments have done nothing but pillage and hollow out defence. This and the last governments have had their heads in the sand for years now feeding off the peace dividend. Still doing it too.
Promises to increase spending to less than half what it needs to be possibly by 2034 isn’t going to cut it. Like fresh water crocodiles in Egypt, they’re in de nile. And don’t tell me there’s no money. The Chancellor found bucket loads for what interested her in the budget, just like the tories threw it around like confetti during Covid and when they started to wet the bed over the Brexit shambles.
Trump and Putin understand power. There is no ‘wrong’, just strength and weakness. If you can take what you want it’s yours. Literally nothing else matters to them. These are very very simple men. No amount of talk, empty promises a handshake with King Charley, free suit and designer free glasses is going to change that.
Trump vision is a world with spheres of influence. Russia has Europe, America their continent and parts of the far east and China the rest. A peaceful world. So why shouldn’t Putin determine elections here? Might is right.
Unless the weedy Europeans want to do something about it, which bar those under imminent threat, is unlikely. |
With Europe collective leadership is definitely an issue unless all opinions are aligned. And they never are, different agendas etc. |  | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:45 - Dec 9 with 855 views | Clapham_Junction |
Putin's long-term playbook has worked perfectly; he's weakened the EU by backing Brexit and weakened US-Europe ties by backing Trump, allowing him more freedom to get away with his designs on Ukraine.
My Chinese partner often told me democracy wouldn't work in China because people could be easily convinced to vote for stupid things and bad people. The last decade has made it increasingly hard not to concede she has a point. |  | | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:09 - Dec 9 with 769 views | giant_stow |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:12 - Dec 9 by Churchman |
Well, Trump makes a good point about Europe talking and not doing. On that he is right. Look at the U.K. - promises to do this and do that but it’s doing less than nothing because successive governments have done nothing but pillage and hollow out defence. This and the last governments have had their heads in the sand for years now feeding off the peace dividend. Still doing it too.
Promises to increase spending to less than half what it needs to be possibly by 2034 isn’t going to cut it. Like fresh water crocodiles in Egypt, they’re in de nile. And don’t tell me there’s no money. The Chancellor found bucket loads for what interested her in the budget, just like the tories threw it around like confetti during Covid and when they started to wet the bed over the Brexit shambles.
Trump and Putin understand power. There is no ‘wrong’, just strength and weakness. If you can take what you want it’s yours. Literally nothing else matters to them. These are very very simple men. No amount of talk, empty promises a handshake with King Charley, free suit and designer free glasses is going to change that.
Trump vision is a world with spheres of influence. Russia has Europe, America their continent and parts of the far east and China the rest. A peaceful world. So why shouldn’t Putin determine elections here? Might is right.
Unless the weedy Europeans want to do something about it, which bar those under imminent threat, is unlikely. |
Agree with a lot of that. Feels like Nato is affectively half on its arse, so at some point military spending will have to jump...just a matter of whether itll take another war / invasion or not to get there. [Post edited 9 Dec 18:10]
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:18 - Dec 9 with 743 views | Dubtractor |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:45 - Dec 9 by Clapham_Junction |
Putin's long-term playbook has worked perfectly; he's weakened the EU by backing Brexit and weakened US-Europe ties by backing Trump, allowing him more freedom to get away with his designs on Ukraine.
My Chinese partner often told me democracy wouldn't work in China because people could be easily convinced to vote for stupid things and bad people. The last decade has made it increasingly hard not to concede she has a point. |
To quote Superhans, people like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:26 - Dec 9 with 732 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:45 - Dec 9 by Clapham_Junction |
Putin's long-term playbook has worked perfectly; he's weakened the EU by backing Brexit and weakened US-Europe ties by backing Trump, allowing him more freedom to get away with his designs on Ukraine.
My Chinese partner often told me democracy wouldn't work in China because people could be easily convinced to vote for stupid things and bad people. The last decade has made it increasingly hard not to concede she has a point. |
Is it Churchill who is accredited with:
Democracy is the worst form of Government apart from all the rest.
and
The best argument against democracy is to hold a conversation with the average voter. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:30 - Dec 9 with 698 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:45 - Dec 9 by Clapham_Junction |
Putin's long-term playbook has worked perfectly; he's weakened the EU by backing Brexit and weakened US-Europe ties by backing Trump, allowing him more freedom to get away with his designs on Ukraine.
My Chinese partner often told me democracy wouldn't work in China because people could be easily convinced to vote for stupid things and bad people. The last decade has made it increasingly hard not to concede she has a point. |
Precisely. The morons have played into Putin's hands |  | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:36 - Dec 9 with 681 views | Radlett_blue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:09 - Dec 9 by giant_stow |
Agree with a lot of that. Feels like Nato is affectively half on its arse, so at some point military spending will have to jump...just a matter of whether itll take another war / invasion or not to get there. [Post edited 9 Dec 18:10]
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The countries that feel most under threat from Russia - Poland, Finland & the Baltic republics - have been increasing defence spending for a while. But it's the larger economies that could make a difference. Of these, Britain is at the head of the pack. And the obvious question is - how can this be funded? Tax increases? Spending cuts elsewhere? Good luck with that! | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:49 - Dec 9 with 651 views | eirannach_gorm |
"The growing influence of patriotic European parties" = rise of the Far Right / fascism / conspiracy theorists / racists. | | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:53 - Dec 9 with 637 views | Guthrum |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:30 - Dec 9 by mellowblue |
With Europe collective leadership is definitely an issue unless all opinions are aligned. And they never are, different agendas etc. |
Especially when you have flies like Orban and Fico in the ointment. | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:53 - Dec 9 with 638 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:07 - Dec 9 by DJR |
I was going to post something but hadn't got round to it.
The document itself strikes me as more driven by J D Vance and Project 25 than by Trump but that is not to excuse him. It is certainly indicative of the direction of travel, especially if someone like Vance becomes President: Trump can at least be persuaded by the last person he spoke to, but Vance strikes me as just nasty.
The following passages are particularly distasteful.
"But this economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect of
civilizational erasure. The larger issues facing Europe include activities of the
European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and
sovereignty, migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating
strife, censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition, cratering
birthrates, and loss of national identities and self-confidence."
"American diplomacy should continue to stand up for genuine democracy, freedom
of expression, and unapologetic celebrations of European nations’ individual
character and history. America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote
this revival of spirit, and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed
gives cause for great optimism." |
Things wouldn’t improve if Trump stood aside and was replaced by Vance.
Despite immigration the number of European Countries seeing a decline in population exceeds those with growth.
https://www.worldometers.info/population/countries-in-europe-by-population/#goog |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 19:11 - Dec 9 with 551 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:45 - Dec 9 by Clapham_Junction |
Putin's long-term playbook has worked perfectly; he's weakened the EU by backing Brexit and weakened US-Europe ties by backing Trump, allowing him more freedom to get away with his designs on Ukraine.
My Chinese partner often told me democracy wouldn't work in China because people could be easily convinced to vote for stupid things and bad people. The last decade has made it increasingly hard not to concede she has a point. |
And yet Starmer is taking the lead in Europe regarding the war in Ukraine and working very closely with our European partners. And Europe* pretty much speaks as one on the issue.
(Not so much EU member Hungary. |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 19:16 - Dec 9 with 508 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 16:34 - Dec 9 by NthQldITFC |
Time to ostracise that backward country until they come to their senses and turn their backs on facile, nationalistic politics.
New Europe all the way. |
Good luck with that. Europe is 5 years minimum away from being in any kind of position to defend itself without the help of the USA. That's before we even get into our trading relationship. | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 21:16 - Dec 9 with 264 views | iamatractorboy |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:07 - Dec 9 by DJR |
I was going to post something but hadn't got round to it.
The document itself strikes me as more driven by J D Vance and Project 25 than by Trump but that is not to excuse him. It is certainly indicative of the direction of travel, especially if someone like Vance becomes President: Trump can at least be persuaded by the last person he spoke to, but Vance strikes me as just nasty.
The following passages are particularly distasteful.
"But this economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect of
civilizational erasure. The larger issues facing Europe include activities of the
European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and
sovereignty, migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating
strife, censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition, cratering
birthrates, and loss of national identities and self-confidence."
"American diplomacy should continue to stand up for genuine democracy, freedom
of expression, and unapologetic celebrations of European nations’ individual
character and history. America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote
this revival of spirit, and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed
gives cause for great optimism." |
"censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition"
Good grief, the absolute brass balls to say that, with what they are doing. | | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 21:36 - Dec 9 with 226 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:07 - Dec 9 by DJR |
I was going to post something but hadn't got round to it.
The document itself strikes me as more driven by J D Vance and Project 25 than by Trump but that is not to excuse him. It is certainly indicative of the direction of travel, especially if someone like Vance becomes President: Trump can at least be persuaded by the last person he spoke to, but Vance strikes me as just nasty.
The following passages are particularly distasteful.
"But this economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect of
civilizational erasure. The larger issues facing Europe include activities of the
European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and
sovereignty, migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating
strife, censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition, cratering
birthrates, and loss of national identities and self-confidence."
"American diplomacy should continue to stand up for genuine democracy, freedom
of expression, and unapologetic celebrations of European nations’ individual
character and history. America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote
this revival of spirit, and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed
gives cause for great optimism." |
Load of bullsh1t
Desperate to spread racist authoritarianism.
Well done again all those that voted for him after he set his hooligans on the Capitol | | | |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 21:42 - Dec 9 with 210 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 21:36 - Dec 9 by reusersfreekicks |
Load of bullsh1t
Desperate to spread racist authoritarianism.
Well done again all those that voted for him after he set his hooligans on the Capitol |
You'd be better off posting that on our USA sister club's forum. I can't think of many on here who were eligible to vote in the US Presidential election. | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 21:54 - Dec 9 with 168 views | WeWereZombies |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 18:26 - Dec 9 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Is it Churchill who is accredited with:
Democracy is the worst form of Government apart from all the rest.
and
The best argument against democracy is to hold a conversation with the average voter. |
Ai overview - The originator of the concise aphorism remains anonymous, but similar sentiments were expressed earlier, notably by British author Israel Zangwill in 1923, who defined democracy as the "least bad form of government". |  |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 22:21 - Dec 9 with 109 views | NthQldITFC |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 17:08 - Dec 9 by Guthrum |
Problem is, it's very difficult to ostracise the world's largest economy, most powerful military and a country with which we've been deeply entwined for 80+ years. Not to mention they have the power, wealth and influence to hurt us if spurned. |
How hard can it be to trick someone as thick as Trump into dressing up like an ostrich though? | |
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| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 22:26 - Dec 9 with 99 views | WeWereZombies |
| Not much mention of Trump confirming on 22:21 - Dec 9 by NthQldITFC |
How hard can it be to trick someone as thick as Trump into dressing up like an ostrich though? |
Are you suggesting that he cannot tell the difference between his rhea end and his elbow ? | |
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