| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j 16:20 - Dec 28 with 2427 views | Denny32 |
It's a Start we probably can only dream of,if we get back up .. |  | | |  |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 18:35 - Dec 28 with 598 views | Vic |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:47 - Dec 28 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It's what we hoped for from Phillips but it didn't work out. Their keeper has been great for them too. Again what we hoped for from Muric but it didn't work out.
7 years ago Sunderland were relegated from the Premier League after 10 successive seasons there.
7 years ago Town were relegated from the Championship after 16 years of slow decline in the Championship.
We were poor and got a lot wrong last season and Sunderland have got a lot right. But let's not forget both clubs have come from quite different starting points even if Sunderland did drop to League 1 for a time similar to us. |
Crucially, Sunderland had several more seasons in the champ before going into the Prem than we did.
Its pretty clear that for whatever reason they recruited better than us; the acid test will be how well we do if/when we get proted again. |  |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 18:44 - Dec 28 with 580 views | Churchman |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 18:30 - Dec 28 by ITFCSG |
Watching Leeds and Sunderland (who basically had just as much squad churn as us) in the PL this season just proves 1 point - the excuse of "gelling" is pure bs. |
So when a team comes together with new players it should be 100% firing from the off. No excuses. So Ferguson should have been fired after a season at Man U, Robson in 1970 and 1979 when the Dutchmen came, GB the first season after relegation, McKenna at the end of his first half season or at the latest after a year in the job.
All the teams that got promoted and relegated going back to 2000 should have succeeded immediately including Royle’s Man City in 2001 so he should have gone too.
If you’ve worked for or put together any sort of team in your life, I presume it too was up to speed minute one day one. That wasn’t my experience. And it isn’t for most sporting teams.
Teams doing what Sunderland have done are the exception; a rarity, but I know the dismals are not going to believe that. |  | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 18:46 - Dec 28 with 572 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 18:35 - Dec 28 by Vic |
Crucially, Sunderland had several more seasons in the champ before going into the Prem than we did.
Its pretty clear that for whatever reason they recruited better than us; the acid test will be how well we do if/when we get proted again. |
They had a couple more seasons than us in the Championship. Not several. They also went through 5 managers (6 if you count caretakers) in the same period we have had McKenna. Including the sh1tshow under Michael Beale, So not a stable base to recruit from. |  |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 19:01 - Dec 28 with 549 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:34 - Dec 28 by Guthrum |
We only have to do what they did (see 2nd half of this post):
There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January by Guthrum 23 Dec 10:54I really don't think it's possible to create a genuine Prem-ready squad in the Championship. The gap is just too big and it's not possible to attract that quality of player to the second tier, even if you could afford to (let alone staying within financial rules).
Sunderland hired in most of a new squad in the summer, spending £150m+. Of the players who made 15+ appearances in their promotion season, just four have made more than 10 in the Prem (Hume 15 starts + 2 sub, Isidor 11+6, Ballard 12+3, La Fee 14+2). Mayenda is on 3+5 (only starting early in the season), Rigg is on 4+3, four others have half a dozen sub appearances between them. Far more change than we made last season.
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Once the transfer window ended on 31/8 our regular starting 11 in the Premier League usually featured only 4 players from our promotion season.
Muric
Tuanzebe
O''Shea
Greaves
Davis
Morsy
Cajuste
Ogbene/Philogene
Hutchinson
Szmodics/Clarke
Delap
Players like Wolfenden and Burgess only played a decent amount of games due to injuries. Wolfy to cover O'Shea who played some games at right back when Axel was out and Burgess when Greaves was injured or covering for David suspension. [Post edited 28 Dec 19:07]
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 19:10 - Dec 28 with 517 views | Vic |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 18:46 - Dec 28 by GlasgowBlue |
They had a couple more seasons than us in the Championship. Not several. They also went through 5 managers (6 if you count caretakers) in the same period we have had McKenna. Including the sh1tshow under Michael Beale, So not a stable base to recruit from. |
OK - but even 2 more gives a massive amount of consolidation time. Plus we had been declining for years, whereas they'd dropped out of the prem before recovering quite quickly.
The managers certainly wasnt ideal! But at the same time it suggests uggests a proactive ownership, totally unlike Evans who just let things stagnate. | |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 20:12 - Dec 28 with 488 views | jas0999 |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:26 - Dec 28 by SitfcB |
Leeds only 2 points off our whole total as well.
That was a good game, I’d fear a tonking from both of them if we played them now.
Two clubs who were well prepared off the pitch for PL football compared to us though. |
Agreed. But also made some really good signings - capable of playing in the PL. | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 20:55 - Dec 28 with 458 views | cressi |
Because we was shi** | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 21:08 - Dec 28 with 445 views | jimmyvet |
Why dont you just sling your hook back to carrot road. | | | |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 21:54 - Dec 28 with 418 views | cressi |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 21:08 - Dec 28 by jimmyvet |
Why dont you just sling your hook back to carrot road. |
Idiot because I'm honest and not got my rosey coloured glasses on. One home win all season was appalling. | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 22:16 - Dec 28 with 398 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:30 - Dec 28 by jontysnut |
Sunderland aren't quite the same side that came up but fair play to them. The Leeds goal reminded me of what we could be capable of. |
Plenty of changes. Four players (+1 sub) played today who were in their side at the end of last season. And most of those are defensive (fullbacks and CM). It’s pretty much a new side. But they’ve recruited well and got them working as a team, so full credit to them. |  |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 22:18 - Dec 28 with 397 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:54 - Dec 28 by Radlett_blue |
Sunderland spent £182m, but recoupled £51m by selling Jobe Bellingham & others.
Town spent an eye-watering £150m and recoupled maybe £1m in sales. So, we had a bigger net spend than the Mackems. |
But isn't that a big part of the point? Who did we already have that we could sell for £51M and then spend that to boost the squad with? Our whole squad was probably worth little more than that and that was our starting point. It wasn't Sunderland's. |  |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 22:22 - Dec 28 with 391 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 19:01 - Dec 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Once the transfer window ended on 31/8 our regular starting 11 in the Premier League usually featured only 4 players from our promotion season.
Muric
Tuanzebe
O''Shea
Greaves
Davis
Morsy
Cajuste
Ogbene/Philogene
Hutchinson
Szmodics/Clarke
Delap
Players like Wolfenden and Burgess only played a decent amount of games due to injuries. Wolfy to cover O'Shea who played some games at right back when Axel was out and Burgess when Greaves was injured or covering for David suspension. [Post edited 28 Dec 19:07]
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And that is a big part of the point. It was decided that the most likely to be able to make the step up were the 4 you highlight. We needed to replace so many more than Sunderland did and had no more resources to do so (less considering the sale of Bellingham too). | |
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| just look how poor many Premier teams are this season on 23:36 - Dec 28 with 346 views | Grief |
Wolves West Ham Forest Bournemouth and even Newcastle were a different class last season.
You cant choose when you go up, but in hindsight, had we missed out last year and gone up this, we would be in a much better place |  | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 07:30 - Dec 29 with 264 views | ITFCSG |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 19:10 - Dec 28 by Vic |
OK - but even 2 more gives a massive amount of consolidation time. Plus we had been declining for years, whereas they'd dropped out of the prem before recovering quite quickly.
The managers certainly wasnt ideal! But at the same time it suggests uggests a proactive ownership, totally unlike Evans who just let things stagnate. |
Sunderland only had decent ownership beginning December 2020 when Louis-Dreyfus took over. Prior to that the club under the ownership of Donald and Sartori weren’t much better than us under Evans. They almost went bust as well, so even if they were in the Prem much more recently than us all the advantages they might have had were wiped out between 2018 and 2020.
Anyone who has watched STID would have know that they weren’t much better off than us both in terms of structure, recruitment etc. when we were both League One clubs. | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 08:26 - Dec 29 with 234 views | RIPbobby |
They have a much more combative midfield we had the classy Cajuste, but if he got tackled it normally resulted in a goal. I'm hoping we might get 1 improvement in the forthcoming window that might make a difference. |  | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 09:14 - Dec 29 with 201 views | Churchman |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 07:30 - Dec 29 by ITFCSG |
Sunderland only had decent ownership beginning December 2020 when Louis-Dreyfus took over. Prior to that the club under the ownership of Donald and Sartori weren’t much better than us under Evans. They almost went bust as well, so even if they were in the Prem much more recently than us all the advantages they might have had were wiped out between 2018 and 2020.
Anyone who has watched STID would have know that they weren’t much better off than us both in terms of structure, recruitment etc. when we were both League One clubs. |
So what you are saying is that Sunderland and ITFC were in exactly the same position.
So that when they were relegated from the PL in 2017, they got rid of all their scouting network, let their youth system rot (presumably Jack Clarke arrived with Santa on his sleigh), prematurely aged their state of the art 40k plus stadium, binning its facilities to boot and burnt down its training ground. Oh and banned all bar 20k entering their stadium.
They were a lot better off than ourselves. I know a little about Sunderland through a couple of chums of mine. I know what they did to financially screw themselves over, but all the building blocks for the big club they undoubtedly are were in place.
To believe their situation was anything like ours in 2021 is in my opinion wrong.
We over achieved getting to the PL soon with little to truly support it. Sunderland were not in the same position. That is not to say they haven’t done extraordinarily well. I’m please for them and for one of my best mates who is seriously unwell at the moment. | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 10:12 - Dec 29 with 147 views | Benters |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:26 - Dec 28 by SitfcB |
Leeds only 2 points off our whole total as well.
That was a good game, I’d fear a tonking from both of them if we played them now.
Two clubs who were well prepared off the pitch for PL football compared to us though. |
This. |  |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 10:13 - Dec 29 with 145 views | Benters |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:58 - Dec 28 by ArnieM |
OP : just shows how poor we were .... |
The truth hurts. | |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 10:39 - Dec 29 with 128 views | vapour_trail |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:47 - Dec 28 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It's what we hoped for from Phillips but it didn't work out. Their keeper has been great for them too. Again what we hoped for from Muric but it didn't work out.
7 years ago Sunderland were relegated from the Premier League after 10 successive seasons there.
7 years ago Town were relegated from the Championship after 16 years of slow decline in the Championship.
We were poor and got a lot wrong last season and Sunderland have got a lot right. But let's not forget both clubs have come from quite different starting points even if Sunderland did drop to League 1 for a time similar to us. |
Comparing the signings of Xhaka and Phillips is laughable, frankly.
One has led an underdog team to the bundesliga, the other has flopped around in the reserves at City and has a massively underwhelming loan in a rubbish West Ham side.
Very different kettles of fish right there. |  |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 10:55 - Dec 29 with 111 views | ITFCSG |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 09:14 - Dec 29 by Churchman |
So what you are saying is that Sunderland and ITFC were in exactly the same position.
So that when they were relegated from the PL in 2017, they got rid of all their scouting network, let their youth system rot (presumably Jack Clarke arrived with Santa on his sleigh), prematurely aged their state of the art 40k plus stadium, binning its facilities to boot and burnt down its training ground. Oh and banned all bar 20k entering their stadium.
They were a lot better off than ourselves. I know a little about Sunderland through a couple of chums of mine. I know what they did to financially screw themselves over, but all the building blocks for the big club they undoubtedly are were in place.
To believe their situation was anything like ours in 2021 is in my opinion wrong.
We over achieved getting to the PL soon with little to truly support it. Sunderland were not in the same position. That is not to say they haven’t done extraordinarily well. I’m please for them and for one of my best mates who is seriously unwell at the moment. |
Do you think a team in danger of administration would still pay millions for scouts they had in the Prem to recruit players for League One? Or some newfangled data analytics system. Look at the players Sunderland recruited before 24/25. Average at best. They only got flying now when they need to massively revamp their entire squad for Pl survival. So is Le Bris a genius or our scouting system crap?
Which youth player from Sunderland academy has made it on the big stage over the past few years? Even Jack Clarke wasn’t Sunderland homegrown, he was at Leeds then Tottenham at youth level.
SOL is showing its age, being a much newer stadium than PR don’t tell me you find the condition of the ground satisfactory. Leaking roof, broken and faded seats, $hitty toilets, basically the stadium looks much older than one built less than 30 years ago. I was there just a couple months ago. See for yourself what the Mackems have to say https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2022/11/10/23448840/after-25-years-what-changes
The “building blocks” were left to rot, only revived pretty much the same time as GC took over Town. | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 11:23 - Dec 29 with 84 views | darkhorse28 |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 16:26 - Dec 28 by SitfcB |
Leeds only 2 points off our whole total as well.
That was a good game, I’d fear a tonking from both of them if we played them now.
Two clubs who were well prepared off the pitch for PL football compared to us though. |
Seriously, that’s the poorest excuse ever for our poor performance, how were Sunderland who haven’t been in the top flight for almost a decade and finished 16th in the championship better prepared than us.
Two big clubs, without success, they’re just better in and off the pitch.
If anything, with our season in league one on our PSR WE had the advantage, of being able to spend more money and still be within compliance.
WE had the advantage, and the same with Leeds, they still had massive liabilities, like Gnonto and consent play, but has huge wages -again, they couldn’t spend as much as us and didn’t,
So where’s the mitigation?
It’s like Mark Ashton had lights you to Dave his career and you swallow it hook line and sinker.
We were certainly in a better position to spend money and remain within PSR than BOTH.., and Mark might have brain washed you, but WE DID spend that money, signed England and Swedish internationals, had one one regular league one player Leif, the rest of our team had never even kicked a ball for anyone in league one!
And we got 22 points.
Which is what we deserved, and we got FAR worse as the season went on too, so we recruited madly, we’re badly coached, badly motivated, and results were a fair reflection of us.
Very poor.
No excuses.
We weren’t good enough, our CEO our manager, our players, they are better than us, as are Burnley. | | | |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 11:52 - Dec 29 with 66 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 07:30 - Dec 29 by ITFCSG |
Sunderland only had decent ownership beginning December 2020 when Louis-Dreyfus took over. Prior to that the club under the ownership of Donald and Sartori weren’t much better than us under Evans. They almost went bust as well, so even if they were in the Prem much more recently than us all the advantages they might have had were wiped out between 2018 and 2020.
Anyone who has watched STID would have know that they weren’t much better off than us both in terms of structure, recruitment etc. when we were both League One clubs. |
But what was their squad when they got promoted? Where are those players playing now? What value is on them and how much did they raise from selling players?
Compare that to ours. Is there a single player who we owned the contract for who is currently playing at Premier League level? That was the consequence of us getting promoted straight through the divisions after such a low starting point.
We did get a lot wrong but we are also in a much healthier position squad-wise than we were when we got promoted 2 years ago. | |
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| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 11:59 - Dec 29 with 54 views | Churchman |
| Sunderland have 28 points half way. We finished season with 22 !! Unbelievable j on 10:55 - Dec 29 by ITFCSG |
Do you think a team in danger of administration would still pay millions for scouts they had in the Prem to recruit players for League One? Or some newfangled data analytics system. Look at the players Sunderland recruited before 24/25. Average at best. They only got flying now when they need to massively revamp their entire squad for Pl survival. So is Le Bris a genius or our scouting system crap?
Which youth player from Sunderland academy has made it on the big stage over the past few years? Even Jack Clarke wasn’t Sunderland homegrown, he was at Leeds then Tottenham at youth level.
SOL is showing its age, being a much newer stadium than PR don’t tell me you find the condition of the ground satisfactory. Leaking roof, broken and faded seats, $hitty toilets, basically the stadium looks much older than one built less than 30 years ago. I was there just a couple months ago. See for yourself what the Mackems have to say https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2022/11/10/23448840/after-25-years-what-changes
The “building blocks” were left to rot, only revived pretty much the same time as GC took over Town. |
They were in the Premier League only 8 years ago. Not 25. I suspect whatever they had it was better than one poor bloke with a broom up his rear end sweeping the floor. That tells its own story. It has a good youth system - Clarke, Chris Rigg and others.
On that I’ll take the word if my mackem chums that long predates this season. Their ‘average at best’ scouting system and youth system led to two play off appearances in three years. They were building. We started 2021 without even a receptionist and a lightbulb. .
The SOL was configured for the PL. Did it need over 100 projects to even allow PL football to be played? How fit for purpose is it now?
Sunderland are third again the size of this club with support to match. Loyal, proper support too, unlike a percentage here. They have critical mass that we don’t. It was inevitable they would recover. It was not inevitable that ITFC would and but for Gamechanger we’d now be in L2 or lower in my view. Sunderland were never in that situation. And yes, our scouting system is not good enough. That’s obvious and hardly a surprise given we didn’t have one for years.
What Sunderland have achieved is exceptional and reminds me of Burley’s achievement. But while there are lessons to learn from it, it is very rare to throw a team together and to do what they’ve done so they are not a fair measure, unless your agenda is to put the boot into ITFC and use misinformation, jealousy and bile to force McKenna and the senior management out. | | | |
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