| Herr Trump you say? on 11:16 - Jan 10 with 541 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:15 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
they are politically independent in every practical sense. that doesn't alter the fact that their legal philosophy supports a view of the us state which better suits policies from the right than liberal policies. they are not puppets of trump any more than all the liberal judges appointed from the 60s onwards (and who had a different legal philosophy) were partisan puppets of the democrats. |
That's a no then. |  |
|  |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:21 - Jan 10 with 529 views | Pinewoodblue |
I’m sorry but I see things differently.
Trump is only the frontman it is whoever is pulling his strings that is the real villain. Removing Trump isn’t going to make any difference Vance represents a bigger danger as he is more capable of getting the message over to the idiots who will vote for him next Presidential elections. |  |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:22 - Jan 10 with 524 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:21 - Jan 10 by Pinewoodblue |
I’m sorry but I see things differently.
Trump is only the frontman it is whoever is pulling his strings that is the real villain. Removing Trump isn’t going to make any difference Vance represents a bigger danger as he is more capable of getting the message over to the idiots who will vote for him next Presidential elections. |
Which, if true, is an even more terrifying prospect, isn't it? | |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:32 - Jan 10 with 501 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I'm not sure that is evidencing what you think it is evidencing.
It wouldn't surprise me if Trump is simply a mouthpiece for a wider movement but he appears to act independently of it too. The clip would suggest that as much as anything. | |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:32 - Jan 10 with 500 views | Blue_Uprising |
| Herr Trump you say? on 10:48 - Jan 10 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Anyone who cannot now see the parallels with Nazi Germany is just blind.
For decades, I and no doubt most others wondered how the nazis managed to do it, how they just hoodwinked ordinary German people with their lies and misinformation. But I think we all thought that in the world of mass communication and instant sharing of images, videos and commentary, that it could never happen again, it was a hugely unfortunate part of history but thankfully something that could never happen again. But here we are.
The truth, it now seems, is what Trump tells us is the truth. Don't let your eyes deceive you, that video of Ms Good was "fake" - it's been doctored by lefties or misinformed lefty commentators are trying to tell us that she wasn't weaponising her vehicle, and the poor ICE officer had to act in self defence. Trump didn't lead people to storm the capitol building. And of course the Chinese or Russians are about to invade Greenland, so it had better come under US sovereignty.
It's so blindingly obvious now that we are in an Orwellian dystopia. It's not the case that it could happen, it already has. The question for us in the UK is what will our government do to stand up to it. It looks like the current answer is very little. I am now feeling very uncomfortable having US military bases in the UK. The words of Trump's administration are simply not the words of an ally, he and his supporters are openly talking about invading Greenland. That's an enemy talking. A fascist dictator. So why are we not standing up to this and closing down US bases on our own soil? |
This about sums it up - the exchange here didn’t get much reporting but is incredible.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/only-bonkers-january-6-karoline-180730866.ht
History would suggest that regimes prepared to act and say things like this (with acquiescence of business and media) very rarely will turn around in response to an election and say “oh yes the others won fair a square we’ll hand over as soon as possible”
The US is way down the rabbit hole. Unfortunately they are an incredibly conformist people and society. Land of brave would be better put as land of the frightened. There is huge naivety about the power of institutions in any established western state. David Allen Green writes very well in this from a constitutional law vs society perspective. |  | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:34 - Jan 10 with 491 views | iamatractorboy |
| Herr Trump you say? on 10:47 - Jan 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
What level of public support is there for removing the right to bear arms? It seems totally nuts that there isn't overwhelming support for it to change. I guess it is akin to what has led us to where we are in terms of standing on the brink of a dictator in charge. |
The ultimate irony with how things are today is that the 2nd Amendment was put in place so people could defend themselves against tyranny. Now the majority of 2nd Amendment nutjobs will probably quite happily use their 'right to bear arms' to defend Trump. Unbelievable |  | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:38 - Jan 10 with 477 views | Guthrum |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:21 - Jan 10 by Pinewoodblue |
I’m sorry but I see things differently.
Trump is only the frontman it is whoever is pulling his strings that is the real villain. Removing Trump isn’t going to make any difference Vance represents a bigger danger as he is more capable of getting the message over to the idiots who will vote for him next Presidential elections. |
More accurate to say they are using each other.
Trump is using the hardline conservative/deregulationist base (with their financial control of the Republican Party) to get and maintain power, profile and enrichment.
Extremist ideologues like Steven Miller are using Trump to put their policy ideas into action.
It's mutually beneficial for both sides, neither would have succeeded without the combination. They are helped greatly by economic decline in large formerly industrialised parts of the US and a common perception of neglect from Washington. Plus the American veneration for wealth. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:41 - Jan 10 with 450 views | iamatractorboy |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:21 - Jan 10 by Pinewoodblue |
I’m sorry but I see things differently.
Trump is only the frontman it is whoever is pulling his strings that is the real villain. Removing Trump isn’t going to make any difference Vance represents a bigger danger as he is more capable of getting the message over to the idiots who will vote for him next Presidential elections. |
Trump and the people behind him such as Project 2025 form some sort of hideous symbiotic relationship. Neither can succeed without the other at the moment. | | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:43 - Jan 10 with 443 views | leitrimblue |
| Herr Trump you say? on 10:58 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
history is a debate. there are alternative views on how events should be interpreted and their historical significance. that debate is particularly important when it comes to how a nation understands itself and how it produces a shared understanding of where the nation has come from and what holds it together. so at a time of a national anniversary it's particularly important to reflect that debate and the different ways of reading history and explaining the nation. that debate and disagreement should be shown as live and on-going. the criticism of institutions such as the smithsonian is of course that they have been captured by one side in that debate. the state shouldn't be dictating how history is presented by such institutions, but institutions should be more diverse and should be reflecting multiple competing readings of history not giving dominance to one. if they fail to do that they are open to political criticism. equally at the time of a national anniversary the state can decide what form the celebrations take and what story is told - eg how the uk opened the olympics. but something has gone badly wrong is the state dictates the detail of museum exhibitions. |
Your post is well written and gives a fair understanding of the difficulties of understanding and presenting history.
The slight problem I'd have with the post comes with the line 'institutions should be more diverse and should be reflecting multiple competing readings of history not giving dominance to one'. On its own, this sounds like a fair response, and in many historical instances this would be the correct way to present history.
The problem comes when exhibiting something like the history of slavery for example. What would be the competing versions of history in this case?
That slavery didn't happen? That slaves were happy with the situation?
In some cases there just isn't any evidence for accurate competing readings of history however much some people might like there to be. |  | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:43 - Jan 10 with 443 views | iamatractorboy |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:38 - Jan 10 by Guthrum |
More accurate to say they are using each other.
Trump is using the hardline conservative/deregulationist base (with their financial control of the Republican Party) to get and maintain power, profile and enrichment.
Extremist ideologues like Steven Miller are using Trump to put their policy ideas into action.
It's mutually beneficial for both sides, neither would have succeeded without the combination. They are helped greatly by economic decline in large formerly industrialised parts of the US and a common perception of neglect from Washington. Plus the American veneration for wealth. |
You beat me to it | | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:45 - Jan 10 with 433 views | WeWereZombies |
| Herr Trump you say? on 10:58 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
history is a debate. there are alternative views on how events should be interpreted and their historical significance. that debate is particularly important when it comes to how a nation understands itself and how it produces a shared understanding of where the nation has come from and what holds it together. so at a time of a national anniversary it's particularly important to reflect that debate and the different ways of reading history and explaining the nation. that debate and disagreement should be shown as live and on-going. the criticism of institutions such as the smithsonian is of course that they have been captured by one side in that debate. the state shouldn't be dictating how history is presented by such institutions, but institutions should be more diverse and should be reflecting multiple competing readings of history not giving dominance to one. if they fail to do that they are open to political criticism. equally at the time of a national anniversary the state can decide what form the celebrations take and what story is told - eg how the uk opened the olympics. but something has gone badly wrong is the state dictates the detail of museum exhibitions. |
There is history and there is historiography. What happened is not debatable, it happened,, but we rely upon the writings, the interpretations, of historians to relate that undebatable history. This written record is valuable but we must never use it as an apology for justifying unacceptable actions. Thanks goodness for philosophy and the realisation that truth is subjective...
And for goodness sake please start using capitalisation and more punctuation, as well as some paragraphs. Your ramblings become almost unreadable through this poor form. |  |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:55 - Jan 10 with 398 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:45 - Jan 10 by WeWereZombies |
There is history and there is historiography. What happened is not debatable, it happened,, but we rely upon the writings, the interpretations, of historians to relate that undebatable history. This written record is valuable but we must never use it as an apology for justifying unacceptable actions. Thanks goodness for philosophy and the realisation that truth is subjective...
And for goodness sake please start using capitalisation and more punctuation, as well as some paragraphs. Your ramblings become almost unreadable through this poor form. |
Its the old "two opinions so they must be given equal consideration" fallacy, in another form.
Of course there are parts of history open to interpretation, but there are demonstrable facts as well and they should never be treated as if they were just an opinion. | | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:58 - Jan 10 with 385 views | NthQldITFC |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:21 - Jan 10 by Pinewoodblue |
I’m sorry but I see things differently.
Trump is only the frontman it is whoever is pulling his strings that is the real villain. Removing Trump isn’t going to make any difference Vance represents a bigger danger as he is more capable of getting the message over to the idiots who will vote for him next Presidential elections. |
I think that there's actually a middle ground here; Trump is doing things that he 'thinks' up himself (albeit no doubt heavily influenced by the politburo) and the politburo is happy to fill in the blanks and, as you say, pull his strings to do what they want him to do.
Inevitably, as he declines the politburo are having more direct and indirect impact, but for now he still has a weakish, liver-spotted hand on the tiller some of the time. I think they kind of need him for a front man still, but I agree they will take control within this term and things might look even worse for the whole world then. |  |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:00 - Jan 10 with 369 views | iamatractorboy |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:58 - Jan 10 by NthQldITFC |
I think that there's actually a middle ground here; Trump is doing things that he 'thinks' up himself (albeit no doubt heavily influenced by the politburo) and the politburo is happy to fill in the blanks and, as you say, pull his strings to do what they want him to do.
Inevitably, as he declines the politburo are having more direct and indirect impact, but for now he still has a weakish, liver-spotted hand on the tiller some of the time. I think they kind of need him for a front man still, but I agree they will take control within this term and things might look even worse for the whole world then. |
I've seen some (probably slightly tongue in cheek) talk online about whether Project 2025 will go full 'Weekend at Bernie's' with him. At this point I wouldn't put anything past them. | | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:02 - Jan 10 with 353 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Herr Trump you say? on 11:32 - Jan 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I'm not sure that is evidencing what you think it is evidencing.
It wouldn't surprise me if Trump is simply a mouthpiece for a wider movement but he appears to act independently of it too. The clip would suggest that as much as anything. |
He was going off script, hence the hand written note which was for his eyes only yet he read it out loud.
When he goes way off script and talks about windmills, People being dumped in America from asylums that’s when you hear Trump’s views.
If as expected November elections are a disaster for Republicans best that they are associated with Trump. Vance will team time to get his message over to the electorate to give his best chance next election [Post edited 10 Jan 12:06]
| |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:10 - Jan 10 with 302 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Herr Trump you say? on 10:48 - Jan 10 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Anyone who cannot now see the parallels with Nazi Germany is just blind.
For decades, I and no doubt most others wondered how the nazis managed to do it, how they just hoodwinked ordinary German people with their lies and misinformation. But I think we all thought that in the world of mass communication and instant sharing of images, videos and commentary, that it could never happen again, it was a hugely unfortunate part of history but thankfully something that could never happen again. But here we are.
The truth, it now seems, is what Trump tells us is the truth. Don't let your eyes deceive you, that video of Ms Good was "fake" - it's been doctored by lefties or misinformed lefty commentators are trying to tell us that she wasn't weaponising her vehicle, and the poor ICE officer had to act in self defence. Trump didn't lead people to storm the capitol building. And of course the Chinese or Russians are about to invade Greenland, so it had better come under US sovereignty.
It's so blindingly obvious now that we are in an Orwellian dystopia. It's not the case that it could happen, it already has. The question for us in the UK is what will our government do to stand up to it. It looks like the current answer is very little. I am now feeling very uncomfortable having US military bases in the UK. The words of Trump's administration are simply not the words of an ally, he and his supporters are openly talking about invading Greenland. That's an enemy talking. A fascist dictator. So why are we not standing up to this and closing down US bases on our own soil? |
You think the plucky Brits can stand up to the might of America? Really?
Not only would their forces wipe the floor with ours, the economic sanctions would absolutely cripple us. And those calling for Starmer to stand up to them would be blaming Starmer for the subsequent mess. |  |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:12 - Jan 10 with 293 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:10 - Jan 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You think the plucky Brits can stand up to the might of America? Really?
Not only would their forces wipe the floor with ours, the economic sanctions would absolutely cripple us. And those calling for Starmer to stand up to them would be blaming Starmer for the subsequent mess. |
He is a bully. He wants easy wins.
He cannot, even with the might of US military, take over Europe if we work together. Huge logistics issues given the Atlantic, and combined, we are not as weak as people make out.
If we do not stand up to anything he tries in Greenland, then he has a foothold and will go further. | | | |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:19 - Jan 10 with 258 views | WeWereZombies |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:10 - Jan 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You think the plucky Brits can stand up to the might of America? Really?
Not only would their forces wipe the floor with ours, the economic sanctions would absolutely cripple us. And those calling for Starmer to stand up to them would be blaming Starmer for the subsequent mess. |
Clearly resistance to the enemy elements within the United States will not come from the United Kingdom alone. Probably around half of the United States is also against the current administration, and then there is Europe and all of Latin America that feels threatened. But does it have to come to that ?
I looked up how much investment the United Kingdom makes in the United States the other day. Latest figures are over U$630 billion, only Japan supports them more. Obviously that could not be withdrawn all at once but the threat of the loss of a trillion dollars should be enough to sober anyone up. Do not underestimate the archipelagos on either side of Eurasia. | |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:24 - Jan 10 with 247 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:12 - Jan 10 by redrickstuhaart |
He is a bully. He wants easy wins.
He cannot, even with the might of US military, take over Europe if we work together. Huge logistics issues given the Atlantic, and combined, we are not as weak as people make out.
If we do not stand up to anything he tries in Greenland, then he has a foothold and will go further. |
The poster I was responding to was specifically talking about what the UK are doing to stand up to him, and concluding not a lot. I agree, Eurpoe needs to stand together, and so far they appear to be doing that.
I think Starmer has played Trump spot on so far, and it's not a case of being weak as some have suggested, it's being sensible, pragmatic and chosing your battles. Like when the press have been goading him to condemn what's happened in Venezuela - that would've been madness and suicidal for this country. It's a balance where you have to bite your tongue and give them an inch to feed their ego and give the impression of being on side, whilst at the same time not letting them walk all over you and get whatever they want. Like dealing with a toddler who's more powerful than you. | |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:28 - Jan 10 with 234 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:19 - Jan 10 by WeWereZombies |
Clearly resistance to the enemy elements within the United States will not come from the United Kingdom alone. Probably around half of the United States is also against the current administration, and then there is Europe and all of Latin America that feels threatened. But does it have to come to that ?
I looked up how much investment the United Kingdom makes in the United States the other day. Latest figures are over U$630 billion, only Japan supports them more. Obviously that could not be withdrawn all at once but the threat of the loss of a trillion dollars should be enough to sober anyone up. Do not underestimate the archipelagos on either side of Eurasia. |
Yeah but how much goes the other way (US investment in the UK)?
You're right, countries need to band together to resist Trump's America - which at the worst end puts us into World War 3. | |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:31 - Jan 10 with 227 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:10 - Jan 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You think the plucky Brits can stand up to the might of America? Really?
Not only would their forces wipe the floor with ours, the economic sanctions would absolutely cripple us. And those calling for Starmer to stand up to them would be blaming Starmer for the subsequent mess. |
I didn't say we start a war with the USA. I said shut down their military bases. Obviously, this would be a threat that we can tell them to leave. Presumably we could shut down power to them, they must be connected to the national grid. But ultimately, they need our agreement to be on our soil. You don't invite enemies that are threatening invasion of allies to have military bases that could be used for those invasions on your own soil. So there needs to be an escalation from the UK side as a possible consequence if the rhetoric from Trump isn't scaled down. |  |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:31 - Jan 10 with 227 views | Herbivore |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:24 - Jan 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The poster I was responding to was specifically talking about what the UK are doing to stand up to him, and concluding not a lot. I agree, Eurpoe needs to stand together, and so far they appear to be doing that.
I think Starmer has played Trump spot on so far, and it's not a case of being weak as some have suggested, it's being sensible, pragmatic and chosing your battles. Like when the press have been goading him to condemn what's happened in Venezuela - that would've been madness and suicidal for this country. It's a balance where you have to bite your tongue and give them an inch to feed their ego and give the impression of being on side, whilst at the same time not letting them walk all over you and get whatever they want. Like dealing with a toddler who's more powerful than you. |
This sounds an awful lot like appeasement. |  |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:41 - Jan 10 with 208 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:31 - Jan 10 by LegendofthePhoenix |
I didn't say we start a war with the USA. I said shut down their military bases. Obviously, this would be a threat that we can tell them to leave. Presumably we could shut down power to them, they must be connected to the national grid. But ultimately, they need our agreement to be on our soil. You don't invite enemies that are threatening invasion of allies to have military bases that could be used for those invasions on your own soil. So there needs to be an escalation from the UK side as a possible consequence if the rhetoric from Trump isn't scaled down. |
You said, "The question for us in the UK is what will our government do to stand up to it. It looks like the current answer is very little". You then went on to talking about military bases. I didn't realise you were specifically meaning about military bases in that quote, I thought it was a general point and the bases were an example.
But nevertheless, pulling the plug on US bases would attract immediate and crippling sanctions. I agree we can't be seen to be supporting them but it's very tricky, because you don't want to plunge our country into more economic plight than it already is either. A tough one, and I'm glad I'm not in charge! | |
| |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:44 - Jan 10 with 201 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Herr Trump you say? on 12:31 - Jan 10 by Herbivore |
This sounds an awful lot like appeasement. |
Well you need it, to a certain extent, I'd have thought. It didn't work in the 1930s but it's not an approach that always fails. It's a balancing act and very difficult to deal with an unhinged loon. Common sense is required. What would you suggest? | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
