| Crystal Clear Comparisons 08:29 - Jan 26 with 2951 views | Churchman |
I went to see Palace play Chelsea yesterday. A nice little free afternoon out and a chance to see Premier League football in comparison to Championship.
Firstly, the disparity between haves and have nots in the Premier League was as obvious this year as last. Palace fought hard with energy and a high press against clearly better players and should have gone a goal up. But they didn’t and a superb counter attack meant they were a goal down. They were then taken to the cleaners. No surprise.
Could our current team compete with CP? No. Despite being outclassed yesterday, we wouldn’t lay a glove on them. We have more, better players now and despite not being top two have the makings of a team. But you need in the core of the team, midfield, 9 and 10 players with size and skill that are a level up.
In terms of Selhurst Park, I last went there 25 years ago. It’s unchanged. And it’s a hovel. I was surprised at how cr@p it is. Plenty of temporary scaffolding, decay, poor views, rubbish access and facilities. If you like paddling in p£ss, Selhurst is the place for you. It makes Portman Road look like the world’s most neat and tidy stadium and I’m amazed big established PL clubs like Palace are not forced to upgrade their facilities.
However, the support puts ours to shame. I thought it oddly quiet outside and before. But when they got going, just before the players came out, they never stopped. The popular end and half the Waite stand kept it going the whole game, even when they were getting a beating.
No booing their own players, jeering or morgue Portman Road silence. Just noise and real, proper support. At the end, no boos. They knew they’d been outclassed but gave it a go. Lots of people left early, but it was cold and if you’ve ever driven to Selhurst you’ll know how desperate the roads are. It’s a hole of an area.
After the second goal a bloke stood up and had a go at the full back. After a loud rant he was told by numbers in no uncertain terms to shut it. And he did. At PR, hundreds would be joining in, as they did abusing Hirst when he came off or Muric before he came on.
If you were McKenna and a call came from Palace, with their money, players and very supportive crowd, I can’t think of a single reason why you wouldn’t be off as fast as you could pack your bags.
An interesting afternoon. It highlighted what we saw last season in terms of quality difference, it peculiarly highlighted for me how far ITFC have come since the Evans disaster years and how far we have to go. The target has to be to compete with the Palace level of teams and given a one club area, infrastructure Gamechanger are putting in I don’t see why we can’t.
Controversially, I wonder if another season in the Championship might not benefit us? We were not ready for it last time and I’m not sure we are now. But the PL money is so huge, you have to grab it if you can.
Given football is meant to be competitive sport I do wonder what the absurd disparity in £ is doing to the game |  | | |  |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 12:57 - Jan 26 with 477 views | Churchman |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 12:21 - Jan 26 by Funge |
Honestly, give this constant bashing of the Town support a rest - difficult to see past the fact that this is a 'you' problem, rather than an 'us' problem, at this point.
As Sitters says, this team got unrelenting support last year, - unrelenting - despite repeatedly getting absolutely humped by pretty much every team at PR from January onwards. The corresponding support this year has been quiet, nervous, and, dare I say, not too marvellous -(plus ca change) - but reading your posts, you'd assume that we were akin to Spurs fans - 60k of whom very much actually do dislike their team and manager, and have made this point, loudly, at White Hart Lane throughout the season.
Hundreds of people booing Hirst, are there? No there aren't.
You make a number of good points elsewhere within your post, but, honestly, if you despise the rest of us so much, it rather begs the question as to why you subject yourself to our company every other Saturday, [Post edited 26 Jan 12:22]
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Actually, some of our fanbase these days does remind me of Spurs and West Ham. Previously it was always quiet, but it was always supportive and patient (odd exception - Robson in the early 70s, Jewell and McGiven). I’ve been careful to label it as some, not all hence the comment regarding the Evans years and the past three seasons.
There is more than one person after the keeper if he doesn’t hoof it and more than one person piling into a selection of players. The lack of objectivity in some is precisely why I felt the need to move seats this season and as expressed in other posts, found it much more pleasurable and interesting.
At no stage have I expressed despising anybody - apart from Trump, Putin, Farage and just about all the politicians. I’m saddened though by the response on here after a loss and by the small sample of 21 who wanted McKenna out from the post on 2 Dec.
You may rightly or wrongly accuse me of exaggerating but may I suggest your generalisation towards my opinions is just that too?
The OP was a direct comparison between what I saw yesterday and what I’ve seen at Portman Road this season. The good and the bad. Other people may see it differently.
To the key point - Selhurst Park, I was stunned by how poor the ground is. I first went there in the 70s and went a lot between then and around 2000. The Holmesdale Rd end was changed from a terrace in 1995 and bar the exec boxes at the Sainsbury’s end, it’s unchanged. The view from Arthur Waite stand isn’t great because the rake is so flat, but the space underneath is appallingly tight.
I love old grounds and Selhurst is characterful, but it has to be better than that. Its state is actually reflects how well Gamechanger have done with Portman Rd which is also old. I gather palace are replacing the stand I was in. They need to. I’m no fan of the decrepit Cobbold stand but it’s better than Palace’s offering.
The stand the other side has a better view, but it’s small and also in need of replacement. Whatever they do, like PR I hope they do not lose the character which of course is a problem for most new stadia. | | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 12:57 - Jan 26 with 475 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Nice post, and I agree with all of it apart from this-
“Controversially, I wonder if another season in the Championship might not benefit us? We were not ready for it last time and I’m not sure we are now. But the PL money is so huge, you have to grab it if you can.”
We will get weaker the longer we are in this league, not stronger. Players like Jaden will move on to fund decreases in PP, or want to play in the PL. For those players that move on, you aren’t realistically replacing them with equivalent quality. Hence why teams like Norwich and Sheff Utd tend to get worse every year they are out of the PL.
We also have more depth to the squad than when we were there last season, where we had to use players like Harness and AAH. Sunderland have shown you don’t need to be ‘ready’ it’s recruitment (and tactics - they play far more pragmatically than we did) that matter. |  | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 13:02 - Jan 26 with 458 views | Churchman |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 12:57 - Jan 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Nice post, and I agree with all of it apart from this-
“Controversially, I wonder if another season in the Championship might not benefit us? We were not ready for it last time and I’m not sure we are now. But the PL money is so huge, you have to grab it if you can.”
We will get weaker the longer we are in this league, not stronger. Players like Jaden will move on to fund decreases in PP, or want to play in the PL. For those players that move on, you aren’t realistically replacing them with equivalent quality. Hence why teams like Norwich and Sheff Utd tend to get worse every year they are out of the PL.
We also have more depth to the squad than when we were there last season, where we had to use players like Harness and AAH. Sunderland have shown you don’t need to be ‘ready’ it’s recruitment (and tactics - they play far more pragmatically than we did) that matter. |
I used the words ‘I wonder’ as a question and I think your response is fair. | | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:20 - Jan 26 with 429 views | FlittonBlue |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 12:21 - Jan 26 by Funge |
Honestly, give this constant bashing of the Town support a rest - difficult to see past the fact that this is a 'you' problem, rather than an 'us' problem, at this point.
As Sitters says, this team got unrelenting support last year, - unrelenting - despite repeatedly getting absolutely humped by pretty much every team at PR from January onwards. The corresponding support this year has been quiet, nervous, and, dare I say, not too marvellous -(plus ca change) - but reading your posts, you'd assume that we were akin to Spurs fans - 60k of whom very much actually do dislike their team and manager, and have made this point, loudly, at White Hart Lane throughout the season.
Hundreds of people booing Hirst, are there? No there aren't.
You make a number of good points elsewhere within your post, but, honestly, if you despise the rest of us so much, it rather begs the question as to why you subject yourself to our company every other Saturday, [Post edited 26 Jan 12:22]
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Whilst on comparisons, when you compare the Sheff Utd home support at the weekend with our own home support, you wonder why we complain! Absolute silence for most of the match apart from the goals and punch ups...no singing, no getting behind the boys. Appreciate theyve been on a ride the last few seasons but they still had a similar attendance to PR but that was a silent experience!! | | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:30 - Jan 26 with 419 views | Ace_High1 |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 09:03 - Jan 26 by Churchman |
Davis is ok. He’s certainly no worse than the Palace full backs and is better going forward. O’’Shea, Greaves, Furlong, Matusiwa, Clarke, JP and Nunez can play at that level in my view.
Midfield, 9, 10 and a good keeper would be an absolute minimum. Good luck finding them!
Recruitment, scouting, networks etc - long way to go for me. It’s going to take perseverance and a lot of money along with more expertise. There’s no denying it’s tough.
Coaching? Well we will have a new manager and coaching staff within six months in my view. How they go about that, goodness only knows, but a shotgun Leicester or Saints approach isn’t the answer. We have to do it our way, whatever that is. |
That is an optimistic view, I don't feel confident much of the squad is good enough to be first 11 in the Premier League.
One of O'Shea/Greaves yes but we would need GK, RB, CB, a LB to push LD unless he shows he has learnt. At least 1 x starting CM (Taylor/Cajuste nowhere near good enough), RW, 10, LW (see JP and JC last season both physically very weak and get bullied in PL) as well as a 9.
We would need a few players from France and Europe like Sunderland have done.
We then need a few good impactful subs.
I don't want that much change again but feel the last 2 summers our business has been more wrong than right with a view to people who have the profile and skillset for a team battling relegation in the PL. |  | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:41 - Jan 26 with 401 views | Benters |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 13:02 - Jan 26 by Churchman |
I used the words ‘I wonder’ as a question and I think your response is fair. |
There of course is another option we may well finish third then lose in the playoffs ?
I think a lot of people are convinced we are up already. |  |
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| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:47 - Jan 26 with 395 views | Churchman |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:41 - Jan 26 by Benters |
There of course is another option we may well finish third then lose in the playoffs ?
I think a lot of people are convinced we are up already. |
We may of course fall apart and not make the play offs. No that’s a depressing and pessimistic thought. Conclusion: who knows! | | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:49 - Jan 26 with 386 views | Benters |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:47 - Jan 26 by Churchman |
We may of course fall apart and not make the play offs. No that’s a depressing and pessimistic thought. Conclusion: who knows! |
I wouldn’t put money on Town finishing top 2.
(Let’s see if that works) 🤓😂 | |
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| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 15:33 - Jan 26 with 350 views | Churchman |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:49 - Jan 26 by Benters |
I wouldn’t put money on Town finishing top 2.
(Let’s see if that works) 🤓😂 |
Me neither and as somebody who hates gambling and is hopeless at it, they’d be doomed if I did. | | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 23:26 - Jan 26 with 297 views | davblue |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 11:45 - Jan 26 by Churchman |
Nunez has vision, speed of feet, a range of passing and can get around the pitch. He’d certainly need bigger players around him as he certainly a ‘shorty’ (says me only an inch taller than him!).
Clarke is a better player than 12 months ago - I think he’d be fine. He is ridiculously talented. Remember that behind him last season there was no midfield whatsoever.
Greaves has the ability though is more of a gamble. We will just have to agree to disagree re Furlong. He’s improved as the season has progressed. He has the size and is certainly aggressive enough. Defensively he position’s himself well. Going forward? Errr, forget that. |
I personally don't see that with those you've mentioned, Clarke is playing better because hes at his level.
Furlong is so far off a premier league player imo. Think hes a decent player in the Championship but thats absolutely his level. |  | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 06:02 - Jan 27 with 261 views | RIPbobby |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 10:42 - Jan 26 by Pinewoodblue |
I wonder if we will approach the Premier League differently should be get a chance to do so next season.
For example get Tuanzebe back and play Grieves at left back. Build on a solid back four. |
Not having Cajuste and Phillips as our 2 CMs is a good start. I'd take a good look at the availability of the Senegal squad. Sunderland recruited lots of Africans and have been competitive. |  | | |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 06:30 - Jan 27 with 250 views | Blue_Heath |
Agree with all that you say other than the McKenna bit, unless they are going to rebuild facilities and have a huge budget. Great club but bad time to go given last years success and a team that feel they have outgrown the club and wanting to move on.
The right type of club for McKenna yes but the wrong time. | |
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| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 13:37 - Jan 27 with 164 views | Vic |
I agree with your penultimate paragraph. We're not ready yet. I'd rather have another year of consolidating and incremental team building (both in quality and team character and togetherness) and be ready to give the prem a proper crack than go up and have another debilitating of trying to touch the coat tails of the other teams. |  |
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| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 13:45 - Jan 27 with 155 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 13:37 - Jan 27 by Vic |
I agree with your penultimate paragraph. We're not ready yet. I'd rather have another year of consolidating and incremental team building (both in quality and team character and togetherness) and be ready to give the prem a proper crack than go up and have another debilitating of trying to touch the coat tails of the other teams. |
Were Sunderland ready? They went up with a squad of much lower value than we have now, and even sold their best player in the summer.
Edit to add the league will be much stronger next season with (likely) Wolves, and West Ham replacing Coventry, and presumably Boro. Birmingham and Wrexham will be having another big summer of spending. [Post edited 27 Jan 13:48]
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| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 14:00 - Jan 27 with 128 views | Vaughan8 |
| Crystal Clear Comparisons on 13:37 - Jan 27 by Vic |
I agree with your penultimate paragraph. We're not ready yet. I'd rather have another year of consolidating and incremental team building (both in quality and team character and togetherness) and be ready to give the prem a proper crack than go up and have another debilitating of trying to touch the coat tails of the other teams. |
The problem you have is you won't get the better players unless you go up. Look at Hackney in the summer. I guess, if we were Premier League, he'd have probably come.
We now have what should be a better squad than in 23/24 (I'll let you argue if it is or isn't).
Staying in this league will just make the task of getting up harder.
Do I think we're ready? Of course not! And also the Sunderland model won't work for everyone, in fact it's been done and failed. | | | |
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