| Gorton and Denton By-election 19:20 - Feb 15 with 1223 views | gtsb1966 |
Greens odds on to win with Reform 2nd and Labour 3rd. Surely that would be the end of Starmer if that happened. One can only hope. I cant see some members of the party waiting for the annihilation in the May elections.
https://www.oddschecker.com/po |  | | |  |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:41 - Feb 15 with 873 views | ITFC_Forever |
I like Starmer and he’s a decent man.
But he’s been undermined by his / the party’s determination to try and appeal to people too far to the right for them ever realistically vote for him.
He’s also been badly advised / badly let down by the appointment of Mandelson and how that’s subsequently played out.
And he’ll not recover from the decision not to allow Burnham to stand in G&D. It’s sent a message of paranoia out, that has weakened his position.
Kier’s not going to last much longer, it seems to be a case of when not if he goes… whether that’s days, weeks or months, he won’t be here (relatively speaking) in the long term.
Burnham is Labour’s best hope… they need to find a way to get him in and stop the in-fighting, or the despicable likes of Farage, Tice & Co will continue to eat away at society. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:42 - Feb 15 with 871 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:41 - Feb 15 by ITFC_Forever |
I like Starmer and he’s a decent man.
But he’s been undermined by his / the party’s determination to try and appeal to people too far to the right for them ever realistically vote for him.
He’s also been badly advised / badly let down by the appointment of Mandelson and how that’s subsequently played out.
And he’ll not recover from the decision not to allow Burnham to stand in G&D. It’s sent a message of paranoia out, that has weakened his position.
Kier’s not going to last much longer, it seems to be a case of when not if he goes… whether that’s days, weeks or months, he won’t be here (relatively speaking) in the long term.
Burnham is Labour’s best hope… they need to find a way to get him in and stop the in-fighting, or the despicable likes of Farage, Tice & Co will continue to eat away at society. |
There is literally no one worth replacing him with.
Keep undermining him folks, and we will be getting Uncle Nige. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:52 - Feb 15 with 833 views | BlueBadger |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:41 - Feb 15 by ITFC_Forever |
I like Starmer and he’s a decent man.
But he’s been undermined by his / the party’s determination to try and appeal to people too far to the right for them ever realistically vote for him.
He’s also been badly advised / badly let down by the appointment of Mandelson and how that’s subsequently played out.
And he’ll not recover from the decision not to allow Burnham to stand in G&D. It’s sent a message of paranoia out, that has weakened his position.
Kier’s not going to last much longer, it seems to be a case of when not if he goes… whether that’s days, weeks or months, he won’t be here (relatively speaking) in the long term.
Burnham is Labour’s best hope… they need to find a way to get him in and stop the in-fighting, or the despicable likes of Farage, Tice & Co will continue to eat away at society. |
Part of Starmer's problem is that he was the 'Kinnock candidate' to restore some electoral credibility and basic competence in the wake of the Dear Leader. I doubt anyone(including Starmer himself) ever thought he'd be PM when he got the job in 2020 given that the only person with a higher level of undeserved popularity in 2020 was Paul Lambert.
A bit like John Major, he's a broadly competent (if somewhat reactionary, unimaginative and prone to listening to bad advice) parliamentarian who's somehow found himself running the country after defeating an opponent who was more unpopular than him rather than him being better liked. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:57]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:55 - Feb 15 with 802 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:42 - Feb 15 by redrickstuhaart |
There is literally no one worth replacing him with.
Keep undermining him folks, and we will be getting Uncle Nige. |
There are a few, but thanks to the rigging of the selections prior to the last election, they won't get enough votes from the current crop of MPs to be put forward to the membership as candidates. |  | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:57 - Feb 15 with 774 views | waveneyblue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:52 - Feb 15 by BlueBadger |
Part of Starmer's problem is that he was the 'Kinnock candidate' to restore some electoral credibility and basic competence in the wake of the Dear Leader. I doubt anyone(including Starmer himself) ever thought he'd be PM when he got the job in 2020 given that the only person with a higher level of undeserved popularity in 2020 was Paul Lambert.
A bit like John Major, he's a broadly competent (if somewhat reactionary, unimaginative and prone to listening to bad advice) parliamentarian who's somehow found himself running the country after defeating an opponent who was more unpopular than him rather than him being better liked. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:57]
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Thats a great 2nd paragraph, sums it up perfectly.
Very much an "how the hell did I get here" PM. |  | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:01 - Feb 15 with 752 views | Mullet |
Not at all.
Labour missed a trick not letting Burnham stand. They essentially have given the seat to the greens or reform who have mobilised half the Kremlin to back that scumbag Goodwin.
It’s a weird seat too. Half urban and very poor, crime ridden and traditionally and immigrant area. Half semi rural poor and the remnants of slum clearances with loads of social deprivation.
Reform are stoking racial tensions and recruiting Britain first to try and win by any means. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:02 - Feb 15 with 754 views | vapour_trail |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:52 - Feb 15 by BlueBadger |
Part of Starmer's problem is that he was the 'Kinnock candidate' to restore some electoral credibility and basic competence in the wake of the Dear Leader. I doubt anyone(including Starmer himself) ever thought he'd be PM when he got the job in 2020 given that the only person with a higher level of undeserved popularity in 2020 was Paul Lambert.
A bit like John Major, he's a broadly competent (if somewhat reactionary, unimaginative and prone to listening to bad advice) parliamentarian who's somehow found himself running the country after defeating an opponent who was more unpopular than him rather than him being better liked. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:57]
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Major was highly skilled.
Portillo had lots of support in the party and also lots of people who really don’t like him. Major had none of the latter and saw him off comfortably.
And he subsequently achieved something in Northern Ireland that nobody else had got near. Never voted for him but comfortably the best PM of my lifetime. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:40 - Feb 15 with 630 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:52 - Feb 15 by BlueBadger |
Part of Starmer's problem is that he was the 'Kinnock candidate' to restore some electoral credibility and basic competence in the wake of the Dear Leader. I doubt anyone(including Starmer himself) ever thought he'd be PM when he got the job in 2020 given that the only person with a higher level of undeserved popularity in 2020 was Paul Lambert.
A bit like John Major, he's a broadly competent (if somewhat reactionary, unimaginative and prone to listening to bad advice) parliamentarian who's somehow found himself running the country after defeating an opponent who was more unpopular than him rather than him being better liked. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:57]
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'Broadly competent'
Are the centrists on hard drugs or is it their denial doing this?
The guy is a serial liar who has presided over a shambolic government and the destruction of his own party.
It's hard to state just how egregious the Starmer/Mcsweeney project has been.
Under their watch they have facilitated the capture of the Labour party by vested business interests and Mandelson, rampant corruption, a calculated deception of party members to win the leadership, dereliction of duty in not producing a coherent plan for government, getting into bed with huge and immoral US tech firms, BlackRock etc, showing terrible judgement over Gaza, a lack of any principles.
The Sunday Times piece on insiders saying that he has no politics, cannot make a decision and is more interested in making requests for 'business casual' wear at meetings just about sats it all.
The latest stuff about Labour Together paying thousands to have mainstream journalists smeared is deeply ironic as this is exactly the tactic the same body used to discredit Corbyn and the left of the party. Only now in Pogrund it's someone who matters (who by the way delighted in reporting Mcsweeney's smears as truth himself) so it's being called out.
It's the death throes of extreme centrism at the worst possible time. The only good thing is the party, beyond saving at this point, will be destroyed.
And speaking of Kinnock, I note that Stephen was busy posting a picture of himself and wife enjoying hospitality at Chequers during the middle of a national crisis. Just about says all you need to know about character of these people. |  | | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:42 - Feb 15 with 622 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:02 - Feb 15 by vapour_trail |
Major was highly skilled.
Portillo had lots of support in the party and also lots of people who really don’t like him. Major had none of the latter and saw him off comfortably.
And he subsequently achieved something in Northern Ireland that nobody else had got near. Never voted for him but comfortably the best PM of my lifetime. |
Major is a political colossus compared to Starmer who must be the worst PM. Even Boris had some political acumen and some political principles.
Competent managerialism a disaster anyway but he couldn't even manage that! | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:45 - Feb 15 with 611 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:41 - Feb 15 by ITFC_Forever |
I like Starmer and he’s a decent man.
But he’s been undermined by his / the party’s determination to try and appeal to people too far to the right for them ever realistically vote for him.
He’s also been badly advised / badly let down by the appointment of Mandelson and how that’s subsequently played out.
And he’ll not recover from the decision not to allow Burnham to stand in G&D. It’s sent a message of paranoia out, that has weakened his position.
Kier’s not going to last much longer, it seems to be a case of when not if he goes… whether that’s days, weeks or months, he won’t be here (relatively speaking) in the long term.
Burnham is Labour’s best hope… they need to find a way to get him in and stop the in-fighting, or the despicable likes of Farage, Tice & Co will continue to eat away at society. |
I would also add that it's crucial to understand that Starmer in many ways was Mandelson's appointment and not the other way round.
Which is precisely why the PM made such a catastrophic decision. [Post edited 15 Feb 20:46]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:51 - Feb 15 with 559 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:55 - Feb 15 by Clapham_Junction |
There are a few, but thanks to the rigging of the selections prior to the last election, they won't get enough votes from the current crop of MPs to be put forward to the membership as candidates. |
They made it even more difficult when they changed the rule the year AFTER Starmer was elected.
Edit
When Starmer was elected leader you only needed the support of 10% of Labour MPs now you need 20%. The chances of 81MPs backing a left wing candidate are remote. When Corbyn was elected leader he only just managed to get the 10% support needed. [Post edited 15 Feb 20:59]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:52 - Feb 15 with 558 views | vapour_trail |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:42 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
Major is a political colossus compared to Starmer who must be the worst PM. Even Boris had some political acumen and some political principles.
Competent managerialism a disaster anyway but he couldn't even manage that! |
Starmer hasn’t fcked the country up anywhere near to Johnson, Truss or Cameron. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:01 - Feb 15 with 505 views | Mullet |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:52 - Feb 15 by vapour_trail |
Starmer hasn’t fcked the country up anywhere near to Johnson, Truss or Cameron. |
Doesn’t fit the Corbynista narrative though. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:03 - Feb 15 with 494 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:52 - Feb 15 by vapour_trail |
Starmer hasn’t fcked the country up anywhere near to Johnson, Truss or Cameron. |
I think that view is going to be challenged quite hard by what they are about to deliver. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:04 - Feb 15 with 492 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:01 - Feb 15 by Mullet |
Doesn’t fit the Corbynista narrative though. |
Corbyn derangement syndrome.
He's not been leader of the Labour party for 6 years. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:08 - Feb 15 with 474 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:55 - Feb 15 by Clapham_Junction |
There are a few, but thanks to the rigging of the selections prior to the last election, they won't get enough votes from the current crop of MPs to be put forward to the membership as candidates. |
There really arent any in the parliamentary party. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:09 - Feb 15 with 464 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:40 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
'Broadly competent'
Are the centrists on hard drugs or is it their denial doing this?
The guy is a serial liar who has presided over a shambolic government and the destruction of his own party.
It's hard to state just how egregious the Starmer/Mcsweeney project has been.
Under their watch they have facilitated the capture of the Labour party by vested business interests and Mandelson, rampant corruption, a calculated deception of party members to win the leadership, dereliction of duty in not producing a coherent plan for government, getting into bed with huge and immoral US tech firms, BlackRock etc, showing terrible judgement over Gaza, a lack of any principles.
The Sunday Times piece on insiders saying that he has no politics, cannot make a decision and is more interested in making requests for 'business casual' wear at meetings just about sats it all.
The latest stuff about Labour Together paying thousands to have mainstream journalists smeared is deeply ironic as this is exactly the tactic the same body used to discredit Corbyn and the left of the party. Only now in Pogrund it's someone who matters (who by the way delighted in reporting Mcsweeney's smears as truth himself) so it's being called out.
It's the death throes of extreme centrism at the worst possible time. The only good thing is the party, beyond saving at this point, will be destroyed.
And speaking of Kinnock, I note that Stephen was busy posting a picture of himself and wife enjoying hospitality at Chequers during the middle of a national crisis. Just about says all you need to know about character of these people. |
Most of that is very very jaundiced in its viewpoint.
He is a decent person, with largely decent intentions, who largely acts with integrity. Compared to the last 3 PMs he is on a different planet.
The hard left nonsense will kill the party and let farage in. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:10 - Feb 15 with 459 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:42 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
Major is a political colossus compared to Starmer who must be the worst PM. Even Boris had some political acumen and some political principles.
Competent managerialism a disaster anyway but he couldn't even manage that! |
Liek I said- keep undermining someone who is on another planet to the likes of Boris, who had no respect for the rule of law or parliamentary integrity.
And we get Nige. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:18 - Feb 15 with 400 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:09 - Feb 15 by redrickstuhaart |
Most of that is very very jaundiced in its viewpoint.
He is a decent person, with largely decent intentions, who largely acts with integrity. Compared to the last 3 PMs he is on a different planet.
The hard left nonsense will kill the party and let farage in. |
I'm sorry, you're entitled to your view, but it's delusional I'm afraid.
What have I highlighted that isn't true?
Is deceit and using funds to smear opponents a sign of integrity?
'Hard left nonsense'. You must be joking. I've not even offered a political critique - simply a moral one! Before we even get to the politics, this government reveals itself to be crooked!
This is your guy. Your vehicle. It's the centre. You can't blame the 'hard left' if Reform get in. It's on the centrists. Own it. The so called 'hard left' were purged by your guys!
Unbelievable!!! [Post edited 15 Feb 21:22]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:21 - Feb 15 with 390 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:10 - Feb 15 by redrickstuhaart |
Liek I said- keep undermining someone who is on another planet to the likes of Boris, who had no respect for the rule of law or parliamentary integrity.
And we get Nige. |
I'm not in government. He's undermining himself.
Does Starmer have respect for rule of law? Have you read about what's going on with the civil service?
The refusal by the centre to own this is breathtaking. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:30 - Feb 15 with 341 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:42 - Feb 15 by redrickstuhaart |
There is literally no one worth replacing him with.
Keep undermining him folks, and we will be getting Uncle Nige. |
Labour aren’t going to implode to the point of giving up 3 more years of power.
The question should be, will Farage still be an MP in 2029 when the next election will be. |  | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:33 - Feb 15 with 330 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:52 - Feb 15 by vapour_trail |
Starmer hasn’t fcked the country up anywhere near to Johnson, Truss or Cameron. |
Liz Truss’s latest
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:34 - Feb 15 with 329 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:52 - Feb 15 by BlueBadger |
Part of Starmer's problem is that he was the 'Kinnock candidate' to restore some electoral credibility and basic competence in the wake of the Dear Leader. I doubt anyone(including Starmer himself) ever thought he'd be PM when he got the job in 2020 given that the only person with a higher level of undeserved popularity in 2020 was Paul Lambert.
A bit like John Major, he's a broadly competent (if somewhat reactionary, unimaginative and prone to listening to bad advice) parliamentarian who's somehow found himself running the country after defeating an opponent who was more unpopular than him rather than him being better liked. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:57]
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This explains everything we’re seeing. As with all Labour leaders the centrist can cut through to the electorate, but the cost of that is that the left of the Labour Party absolutely hates such a person. Jasondozzel is demonstrating that point fairly well on this thread!
It’s always been thus. Even their first PM, Ramsay McDonald, was utterly hated by the left of the party almost immediately after he’d won them their first election. Blair is obviously the most extreme example. The hate seems proportional to the success. Ultimately, in-fighting is a feature of socialism more than it is on the right.
I have sympathy for both positions. I can appreciate the argument that says you have to be acceptable enough to be elected as a priority. But also we can see the damage current economic theory does and some of the ideas from the left for a more equal world seem appealing. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:38 - Feb 15 with 307 views | vapour_trail |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:33 - Feb 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Liz Truss’s latest
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He looks really unwell there. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:40 - Feb 15 with 296 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:34 - Feb 15 by Swansea_Blue |
This explains everything we’re seeing. As with all Labour leaders the centrist can cut through to the electorate, but the cost of that is that the left of the Labour Party absolutely hates such a person. Jasondozzel is demonstrating that point fairly well on this thread!
It’s always been thus. Even their first PM, Ramsay McDonald, was utterly hated by the left of the party almost immediately after he’d won them their first election. Blair is obviously the most extreme example. The hate seems proportional to the success. Ultimately, in-fighting is a feature of socialism more than it is on the right.
I have sympathy for both positions. I can appreciate the argument that says you have to be acceptable enough to be elected as a priority. But also we can see the damage current economic theory does and some of the ideas from the left for a more equal world seem appealing. |
I don't think you can say that Starmer and the Labour right have cut through to the electorate on any metric. Perhaps only in that they might be the most despised government of recent times which hot on the heels of the Tories is some achievement...
Cameron, Boris, Truss etc. did all have political projects. They may have been ones many disagreed with but there was some political direction.
Starmer's Labour are utterly without any direction because there was never a political project beyond purging the left and recapturing money and power and the party.
What is Starmerism? | | | |
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