| Can we please stop blaming referees. 07:06 - Mar 24 with 817 views | Blue_In_Boston |
I used to slaughter my Forest supporting friend about their fanbase being so bitter with the world hates us mentality. I have to say, we are as bad if not worse.
Referees have an impossible task, like it or not they are the only person on the pitch who isn't going out of his way to cheat. He makes mistakes, as does virtually every player and manager each week. Some weeks we have benefitted from refereeing decisions, not always even in our match - look at the Millwall sending off v Blackburn.
If we miss out on promotion we need to look.closer to home. |  | | |  |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 07:21 - Mar 24 with 766 views | Benters |
Why would anyone want to be a ref? |  |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 07:28 - Mar 24 with 745 views | Herbivore |
There's a thread on here asking whether refs are to blame if we don't go up and literally everyone has said no. |  |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 07:30 - Mar 24 with 745 views | WeirdFishes |
The refereeing of late has been nothing short of embarrassing and has clearly negatively impact the result.
However I do agree, we shouldn’t have been relying on 90+ minute decision to beat the second to bottom team or mid table Stoke, it’s been used as an easy excuse to gloss over more poor performances. |  |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 08:03 - Mar 24 with 632 views | bsw72 |
I don't believe anyone with any common sense is blaming the referee decisions if we do not get promoted as over 46 games we as a team have plenty of chances to earn the points, however we can quite happily blame the referee in situations where they have made clear and obvious errors.
To be clear the recent moaning is not subjective or debatable - it has been acknowledged by the governing body that 2 referees have cost us points (in the Stoke game definitely and the potential in the Leicester game as we would have had to score the pen).
The latter has been compounded with the Davis suspension and how the decision may be viewed as best, poorly timed/judged, but factoring in the lack of clear evidence and the club's reaction actually feels a little vindictive, rightly or wrongly.
You are right that people make mistakes, but it is how that mistake is acknowledged and dealt with that makes the difference. As for not blaming refs, we can blame players, fans and managers - so why not the refs?
Referees are not amateurs, they are paid professionals and therefore should be held accountable for poor performances, yet I see no evidence of this from the PGMOL - a letter of apology is not good enough.
Finally referees do not have an impossible task, they have a challenging one - but are salaried professionals and there are some very, very good ones out there at all levels who earn player and fan respect - the problem is that poor ones are not being dealt with appropriately, and the introduction of VAR has further reduced their authority and effectiveness with every minute decision now being reviewed and the so called "clear and obvious" reasoning going out the window. |  | | |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 08:33 - Mar 24 with 539 views | RetroBlue |
OP: So, if we're not to blame the refs for decisions eg , two blatant penalties in one game denied ... and other one the following game . then WHO do we blame ? Who was responsible for those decisions? The lack of use of "linesmen" (Im from a different era ), these days merely compounds the problem.
For me , it IS the refs fault, and and its also their fault that they dont use the |  |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 08:41 - Mar 24 with 515 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Blaming refs is an age old football tradition. I think you're thinking about TWTD all wrong.
You're thinking about this place like the Guardian, with reasoned debate and significant contrition.
You need to think of it as a football boozer, with young and old talking football, some getting it right but most taking $hit and getting it all wrong, except with Hobnobs. Referees (and Lino's, And SkyTV) are all $hit.
Trevor over in the corner is talking about how the new training centre is being built by a satanic cult, he's got two lads nodding in agreement. Its really not that serious. |  |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 09:09 - Mar 24 with 449 views | ITFCson |
I don't think as a fan base we are any worse than anyone else. It may seem that way to you, however, as this season and more so recently we have been on the wrong end of some very poor decisions. | | | |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 09:12 - Mar 24 with 442 views | Radlett_blue |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 08:03 - Mar 24 by bsw72 |
I don't believe anyone with any common sense is blaming the referee decisions if we do not get promoted as over 46 games we as a team have plenty of chances to earn the points, however we can quite happily blame the referee in situations where they have made clear and obvious errors.
To be clear the recent moaning is not subjective or debatable - it has been acknowledged by the governing body that 2 referees have cost us points (in the Stoke game definitely and the potential in the Leicester game as we would have had to score the pen).
The latter has been compounded with the Davis suspension and how the decision may be viewed as best, poorly timed/judged, but factoring in the lack of clear evidence and the club's reaction actually feels a little vindictive, rightly or wrongly.
You are right that people make mistakes, but it is how that mistake is acknowledged and dealt with that makes the difference. As for not blaming refs, we can blame players, fans and managers - so why not the refs?
Referees are not amateurs, they are paid professionals and therefore should be held accountable for poor performances, yet I see no evidence of this from the PGMOL - a letter of apology is not good enough.
Finally referees do not have an impossible task, they have a challenging one - but are salaried professionals and there are some very, very good ones out there at all levels who earn player and fan respect - the problem is that poor ones are not being dealt with appropriately, and the introduction of VAR has further reduced their authority and effectiveness with every minute decision now being reviewed and the so called "clear and obvious" reasoning going out the window. |
Indeed, the advent of VAR has further undermined referees in the PL as players now feel that any contentious decision that goes against their team can be reversed. Wasn't it better when the referee's decision was final, excepting goal line technology? |  |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 09:15 - Mar 24 with 432 views | football |
Nope. They are trained and get paid a lot of money for that job. We have lost four points because of decisions made by Busby and Leif being banned. Those decisions could cost the club millions of pounds if its the difference between promotion or not | | | |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 09:17 - Mar 24 with 425 views | OldFart71 |
What shall we sing then ? " The referee was born out of wedlock" doesn't quite sound right.
Or "whose the masturbator in the black" | | | |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 10:11 - Mar 24 with 358 views | Radlett_blue |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 09:15 - Mar 24 by football |
Nope. They are trained and get paid a lot of money for that job. We have lost four points because of decisions made by Busby and Leif being banned. Those decisions could cost the club millions of pounds if its the difference between promotion or not |
All referees WILL make errors. What do you propose to do about it? They are already highly trained. | |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 10:24 - Mar 24 with 344 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 10:11 - Mar 24 by Radlett_blue |
All referees WILL make errors. What do you propose to do about it? They are already highly trained. |
I am quite accepting of them making errors. I do think they should be honest about them rather than pretending they didnt see it.
More to the point, re-refereeing vindictively and then be supported in that by the FA is utterly corrupt. That is not an error. That is closing of ranks and cannot be a decision made with integrity. | |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 10:35 - Mar 24 with 322 views | grow_our_own |
I don't blame refs. I blame the system of refereeing. It's infeasible for a human ref & linesmen to accurately officiate a fast football match played by highly adept professional cheats. Physically impossible. I'm aggrieved not at bumbling, vindictive Busby, but EFL for allowing a situation that invites people like that to have such a big influence on the outcomes of high-stakes matches. And no, it doesn't even out over a season.
I also blame the Prem & FIFA for having blanket VAR interference in every goal, pen and sending-off. Compromises the enjoyment of football, makes the sport less entertaining and popular.
The solution is limited captain challenges. Reduce the cheating, and make players (captains) own when VAR is used, not a faceless bureaucrat sitting in a control room.
Busby, look at the pen he gives QPR by grow_our_own 23 Mar 14:01I'm convinced limited captain VAR challenges will immeasurably improve football. Eg Portsmouth captain could have challenged and got that overturned. But whole reason this incident arose is that Esquerdinha thought he could dive and win a pen. It's almost all upside for him. Dive and possibly win a pen and goal for his team, or worst case, get a yellow card. Being honest & staying on his feet would only result in him getting a cross into a crowded box full of defenders. Most players are coached to do the former. Completely rational. I'd chance my arm and dive myself.
Now compare that with the incentives with limited captain challenges. Let's assume captains can make two per game. If you dive, flail your arms around and implore your captain to make a challenge, there can be two outcomes:
1) Captain challenges for what is a bullsh!t attempt to buy a pen. Video exposes that contact was inconsequential and penalty is denied. Diver has just deprived their team of a potentially game-deciding challenge. Hand of god or other clear injustice can subsequently happen, and it'll be tough titties. Diver feels like an idiot because they have been an idiot. Or
2) not even your own captain supports you in risking loss of a potentially game-deciding challenge, and it'll also make you look like an idiot.
Either way, you're less likely to dive. Football will become less a contest of which team has the more convincing professional cheats. Unlike current VAR, there'd be fewer delays because challenges would be made judiciously rather than for **all** goals, pens, and red cards as now. The purity of goal-joy, which perhaps more than any other factor, is why football is the best, most popular sport in the world, would at least partly be restored.
Spectators will know unequivocally whether a goal has been scored bc they'll be able to observe whether the captain is challenging. No whistle/flag/captain-challenge = goal. Simple. Can confidently celebrate like a loon just like in VAR-less football.
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 11:34 - Mar 24 with 285 views | Radlett_blue |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 10:24 - Mar 24 by redrickstuhaart |
I am quite accepting of them making errors. I do think they should be honest about them rather than pretending they didnt see it.
More to the point, re-refereeing vindictively and then be supported in that by the FA is utterly corrupt. That is not an error. That is closing of ranks and cannot be a decision made with integrity. |
The FA or Football League or whatever to tend to have a bunker mentality about blindly supporting referees, but it's such an unattractive job anyway that I imagine they don't want to make it even less attractive. The smaller the pyramid, the fewer good referees will emerge at the top.
PGMOL have admitted that both penalty decisions we suffered recently were errors. Presumably they will be discussing these and other issues with officials. What more can anyone do? | |
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| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 12:40 - Mar 24 with 240 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 09:15 - Mar 24 by football |
Nope. They are trained and get paid a lot of money for that job. We have lost four points because of decisions made by Busby and Leif being banned. Those decisions could cost the club millions of pounds if its the difference between promotion or not |
So are our players and manager. You could go through them one by one and see how many points they have cost us with errors.
They may be trained and well paid, but when everyone else on the pitch is trying to pull the wool over their eyes (I.e. cheating) they become the scapegoat. | | | |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 16:23 - Mar 24 with 202 views | BlueRaider |
| Can we please stop blaming referees. on 10:35 - Mar 24 by grow_our_own |
I don't blame refs. I blame the system of refereeing. It's infeasible for a human ref & linesmen to accurately officiate a fast football match played by highly adept professional cheats. Physically impossible. I'm aggrieved not at bumbling, vindictive Busby, but EFL for allowing a situation that invites people like that to have such a big influence on the outcomes of high-stakes matches. And no, it doesn't even out over a season.
I also blame the Prem & FIFA for having blanket VAR interference in every goal, pen and sending-off. Compromises the enjoyment of football, makes the sport less entertaining and popular.
The solution is limited captain challenges. Reduce the cheating, and make players (captains) own when VAR is used, not a faceless bureaucrat sitting in a control room.
Busby, look at the pen he gives QPR by grow_our_own 23 Mar 14:01I'm convinced limited captain VAR challenges will immeasurably improve football. Eg Portsmouth captain could have challenged and got that overturned. But whole reason this incident arose is that Esquerdinha thought he could dive and win a pen. It's almost all upside for him. Dive and possibly win a pen and goal for his team, or worst case, get a yellow card. Being honest & staying on his feet would only result in him getting a cross into a crowded box full of defenders. Most players are coached to do the former. Completely rational. I'd chance my arm and dive myself.
Now compare that with the incentives with limited captain challenges. Let's assume captains can make two per game. If you dive, flail your arms around and implore your captain to make a challenge, there can be two outcomes:
1) Captain challenges for what is a bullsh!t attempt to buy a pen. Video exposes that contact was inconsequential and penalty is denied. Diver has just deprived their team of a potentially game-deciding challenge. Hand of god or other clear injustice can subsequently happen, and it'll be tough titties. Diver feels like an idiot because they have been an idiot. Or
2) not even your own captain supports you in risking loss of a potentially game-deciding challenge, and it'll also make you look like an idiot.
Either way, you're less likely to dive. Football will become less a contest of which team has the more convincing professional cheats. Unlike current VAR, there'd be fewer delays because challenges would be made judiciously rather than for **all** goals, pens, and red cards as now. The purity of goal-joy, which perhaps more than any other factor, is why football is the best, most popular sport in the world, would at least partly be restored.
Spectators will know unequivocally whether a goal has been scored bc they'll be able to observe whether the captain is challenging. No whistle/flag/captain-challenge = goal. Simple. Can confidently celebrate like a loon just like in VAR-less football.
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100% it works in cricket and in the NFL to have the challenges in the hands of the teams, the captain has to specify what he's looking for too (e.g. number 7 was offside), and that is the only thing that is looked at. No more wondering if they are looking at something, so much better. | |
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