| When this is done and dusted 14:16 - Mar 30 with 5557 views | bluelagos |
One thing that is glaringly obvious to me is that there isn't a proper independent supporters voice.
The official supporters club response was a statement of nothingness.
Blue Action. Could they evolve into being more out spoken? (My preference but are they even open to non A Block members?)
Matt Holland - he would never realistically fill this role.
The press - so dependent on access to the club that they seem reluctant to press the club hard.
The various supporter podcast things - think like the press they are scared of being properly critical.
Maybe there is a space for a truly independent supporters voice? Cos to be honest, I've felt we don't currently hear one from any of the above.
Lots of teams have truly independent supporters clubs, not convinced we do...
Thoughts?
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:21 - Mar 30 with 3030 views | Stenvict |
There are so many differing opinions on the subject though. If you were personally part of the official supporters club, I'm sure you'd be pushing for a stronger statement. Maybe those individuals weren't as fussed as you. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:25 - Mar 30 with 2986 views | Zx1988 |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:21 - Mar 30 by Stenvict |
There are so many differing opinions on the subject though. If you were personally part of the official supporters club, I'm sure you'd be pushing for a stronger statement. Maybe those individuals weren't as fussed as you. |
In isolation that would probably be a reasonable point.
However, as with other past issues, it is all too clear that the official supporters' club is just another mouthpiece of the club itself - either by design or by happenstance.
They won't say anything without either running it by the club first, or being provided it by the club, and they're too scared of rocking the boat to say anything critical. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 with 2985 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:21 - Mar 30 by Stenvict |
There are so many differing opinions on the subject though. If you were personally part of the official supporters club, I'm sure you'd be pushing for a stronger statement. Maybe those individuals weren't as fussed as you. |
100% agree with that. Which is part of the problem, those most critical of the club on this haven't had a voice.
Plus - even if most fans were aligned with my views (I have no idea of where most fans are without a poll) - the supporters club still wouldn't actually speak out would they.
Is there room for an Independent voice/group - which is absolutely focused on the issues of things like pricing / atmosphere / travel / fan exploitation etc. ? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 with 2980 views | grow_our_own |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:21 - Mar 30 by Stenvict |
There are so many differing opinions on the subject though. If you were personally part of the official supporters club, I'm sure you'd be pushing for a stronger statement. Maybe those individuals weren't as fussed as you. |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:28 - Mar 30 with 2960 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
Polls on here? Even I'd accept we are not 100% representative of the fan base...
But it does show that a chunk of the fans have no formal way in. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:29 - Mar 30 with 2954 views | NederlandseBlue |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
Could that be changed if more people joined and were active in the supporters club?
Do we know how their statements are derived? Do they speak with members first? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:30 - Mar 30 with 2934 views | Stenvict |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
Is that polls on this site? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:31 - Mar 30 with 2924 views | TheMoralMajority |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
I'd be careful throwing stats like that around without caveats. It will be jumped on!
As for the OP, I 100% think that an independent body in many areas of life is important to hold an official body to account, and I see no reason to see different here.
The main problem is, not everyone will ever share the same views (partially solvable democratically), and going from "I think there should be an independent body" to there being an independent body is very difficult! Not that it shouldn't be done, but the steps to get there require a lot of hard work and motivation! |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:35 - Mar 30 with 2890 views | MattinLondon |
The official supporters club has always been in cahoots with the club - I might well be totally out of order with this but to me, they’ve always kept the party line.
In terms of Blue Action being more vocal - I think that there is already huge pressure on their shoulders regarding atmosphere. And they’ve never really been given a lot of encouragement from the club. But I think it’ll be unfair if we looked towards them more than what we already do.
There is space for an independent supporters club but to be honest, I’m not sure how well supported it’ll be. Last week a poster stated that we could drop napalm on the lower NS and it won’t catch fire. I think the wider fan base is even more muted in this regard. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:37 - Mar 30 with 2872 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:31 - Mar 30 by TheMoralMajority |
I'd be careful throwing stats like that around without caveats. It will be jumped on!
As for the OP, I 100% think that an independent body in many areas of life is important to hold an official body to account, and I see no reason to see different here.
The main problem is, not everyone will ever share the same views (partially solvable democratically), and going from "I think there should be an independent body" to there being an independent body is very difficult! Not that it shouldn't be done, but the steps to get there require a lot of hard work and motivation! |
My view would be - rather than having an organisation to represent all supporters views - and that is impossible to ever reconcile - have an organisation with a clear stance and people are then welcome to join it or not.
That said - I think BlueAction are where we need to be - but are they open to all? Cos if they are - I'd be happy to sign up and see if they can take on the role of being more vocal?
They have a lot of credit in the bank with many fans, especially on issues they have spoken out on. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:40 - Mar 30 with 2845 views | hype313 |
What's quite clear is even if we did have one, it would be disregarded by the club, we are seen as cash cows, no more, no less.
We're probably a hindrance if we're honest, wouldn't be surprised if the club, like others in the PL, would just have tourists as fans, they could rinse them without the headache. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:42 - Mar 30 with 2823 views | Blueschev |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
Is that quantifiable in any way? I feel very strongly about this, however I honestly don't think that I'm in the majority. I expect that there are many supporters who don't care either way. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:47 - Mar 30 with 2794 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:40 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
What's quite clear is even if we did have one, it would be disregarded by the club, we are seen as cash cows, no more, no less.
We're probably a hindrance if we're honest, wouldn't be surprised if the club, like others in the PL, would just have tourists as fans, they could rinse them without the headache. |
Which is exactly why we need a voice. Look at how the club has been pushing the hospitality angle and not engaging BA / atmosphere issues.
The tourist model is clearly the direction of travel from Ashton. If/when he's gone it might be possible to have a reset.
As far as I am aware - no supporters groups have ever been consulted on the appropriateness of pushing hospitality, whilst nothing much on safe standing.
Did anyone here ever get an input? Same for flame throwers and light shows - wtf thought they were a good idea? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 with 2752 views | hype313 |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:47 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
Which is exactly why we need a voice. Look at how the club has been pushing the hospitality angle and not engaging BA / atmosphere issues.
The tourist model is clearly the direction of travel from Ashton. If/when he's gone it might be possible to have a reset.
As far as I am aware - no supporters groups have ever been consulted on the appropriateness of pushing hospitality, whilst nothing much on safe standing.
Did anyone here ever get an input? Same for flame throwers and light shows - wtf thought they were a good idea? |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:51 - Mar 30 with 2722 views | thebooks |
I've been thinking this as well.
There's definitely a space for something independent. It has struck me that everyone has been behind this corporate vision of the club, which of course has worked really well over the last few seasons, but shown its limitations in the last week.
You will of course get people moaning about it not representing all fans, but then there's nothing stopping anyone from joining -- and you'll always get that moaning.
The response about getting agreement on a stance is valid, but something all representative bodies face.
Also agree it's not for BA to organise on top of getting our match support sorted out (unless they wanted to, of course), although there'd be overlap I guess. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:51 - Mar 30 with 2719 views | TheMoralMajority |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, |
I'm sure he wouldn't, but I do not believe that would be a reason not to do it. A unified voice can make a lot more noise than disparate individuals. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:52 - Mar 30 with 2715 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, |
First off - I think Ashton is gone by the summer.
I am looking beyond that - we have a chance for a reset if/when a new CEO comes in. And what we have now doesn't cut it for me.
100% concur we are nothing more than £s to the club. Our owners are venture capitalists - would expect nothing else. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:53 - Mar 30 with 2707 views | Blueschev |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, |
If the club go on to become an established Premier League side, we won't even be that. Got to love modern football. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:53 - Mar 30 with 2694 views | Zx1988 |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, |
Even if Ashton doesn't want to actively listen, the existence of an independent and well-organised fan group could force his hand.
Say we get promoted and enjoy a few successful seasons, we could well see season ticket prices nudging over £1,000 in a lot of areas. That's probably the sort of campaign that a good percentage of fans could get behind.
If that results in protests (banners; protests outside the ground; coordinated action such as sit-outs, or a refusal to buy food/drink/merch) then those in power would have to take notice.
Given that the end goal of the current incumbents is to maximise the value and cash out, I'm sure they wouldn't want too much visible evidence of an unhappy/fractious fanbase. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:53 - Mar 30 with 2696 views | Dubtractor |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
That two thirds figure feels unlikely.
And I say that from the lefty bumfest part of twtd.
Two thirds on here maybe, I'd guess opinion is split somewhere around 50/50 across the wider fanbase, in terms of feelings about last week. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:54 - Mar 30 with 2696 views | JakeITFC |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:42 - Mar 30 by Blueschev |
Is that quantifiable in any way? I feel very strongly about this, however I honestly don't think that I'm in the majority. I expect that there are many supporters who don't care either way. |
It has surprised me that a lot of people are seemingly nonplussed by having a CEO/Chairman who has pissed off a good proportion of his own staff and players, lied and shown a fair bit of incompetence in doing so.
The fallout from his apology seems to have just divided people into camps of pro-Reform and anti-Reform but left a big pool of people who aren't either of those things necessarily but don't want to get dragged into a culture war (understandably). The untruthful negligence of Ashton seems to have dropped from the agenda a touch. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:54 - Mar 30 with 2684 views | thebooks |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, |
You're right, he wouldn't listen, but I guess the point is some sort of collective voice has its worth and could make him respond, or at least a bit accountable.
Has value when he's gone as well. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:57 - Mar 30 with 2654 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:53 - Mar 30 by Zx1988 |
Even if Ashton doesn't want to actively listen, the existence of an independent and well-organised fan group could force his hand.
Say we get promoted and enjoy a few successful seasons, we could well see season ticket prices nudging over £1,000 in a lot of areas. That's probably the sort of campaign that a good percentage of fans could get behind.
If that results in protests (banners; protests outside the ground; coordinated action such as sit-outs, or a refusal to buy food/drink/merch) then those in power would have to take notice.
Given that the end goal of the current incumbents is to maximise the value and cash out, I'm sure they wouldn't want too much visible evidence of an unhappy/fractious fanbase. |
And the chances of the official supporters club doing anything....absolutely none imho.
BA - I'd like to see them do more - maybe they can evolve - that's what I'd like but it needs to come from them. (I am NOT criticising them one bit here) | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 14:58 - Mar 30 with 2650 views | Blueschev |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:54 - Mar 30 by JakeITFC |
It has surprised me that a lot of people are seemingly nonplussed by having a CEO/Chairman who has pissed off a good proportion of his own staff and players, lied and shown a fair bit of incompetence in doing so.
The fallout from his apology seems to have just divided people into camps of pro-Reform and anti-Reform but left a big pool of people who aren't either of those things necessarily but don't want to get dragged into a culture war (understandably). The untruthful negligence of Ashton seems to have dropped from the agenda a touch. |
That's largely my experience also. It drives me nuts frankly, but such is life. I'm quite used to people not sharing my worldview. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:07 - Mar 30 with 2595 views | Smoresy |
I'm unsure how greatly this differs from your average example, re supporters' clubs. If they were (or are) truly independent, may we confidently think they'd be holding feet to the fire today on what's a divisive issue? Whose views would they disregard and how? Or would they instead reflect a swathe of views and in doing so fudge decisive action?
My opinion on events closely mirrors yours, with the exception that I'll continue to attend PR (with conscience clear on that, personally), but it would need to be a very small supporters' club to find broad agreement. Then to Hype's point, it would very much be a dissenting voice from the sidelines I'd imagine, rather than one with clear authority and club recognition. | | | |
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