| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake 10:44 - Apr 1 with 2560 views | PacittiJohn |
seem to be used as terms of abuse by some. What do they actually mean?
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:44 - Apr 1 with 677 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:41 - Apr 1 by Dubtractor |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the definition there isn't really about what 'woke' is, but about what 'anti-woke' thinking defines 'woke' to be. |
You're not wrong. |  |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:47 - Apr 1 with 643 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:41 - Apr 1 by Dubtractor |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the definition there isn't really about what 'woke' is, but about what 'anti-woke' thinking defines 'woke' to be. |
well a court can't define anti-woke without also defining woke. the fuller quote is "... it undermines the premise of ‘woke’ ideology, that is to say the dominant philosophical belief in academia which holds white people to be morally accountable for all group disparities favouring whites.”
clearly the court is setting out the "premise of" woke. i don't logically see how that can be denied. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:52 - Apr 1 with 634 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:47 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
well a court can't define anti-woke without also defining woke. the fuller quote is "... it undermines the premise of ‘woke’ ideology, that is to say the dominant philosophical belief in academia which holds white people to be morally accountable for all group disparities favouring whites.”
clearly the court is setting out the "premise of" woke. i don't logically see how that can be denied. |
They are defining 'woke' from the perspective of anti-woke ideology. That is pretty clear. They are not purporting to provide the definitive legal definition of 'woke' and the definition being used is problematic in many ways but works for the purpose of defining 'anti-woke ideology'. | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:07 - Apr 1 with 580 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 13:52 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
They are defining 'woke' from the perspective of anti-woke ideology. That is pretty clear. They are not purporting to provide the definitive legal definition of 'woke' and the definition being used is problematic in many ways but works for the purpose of defining 'anti-woke ideology'. |
i'm not claiming it to be the only definition - there are certainly others. the point is that the context here (it was the context you were so keen on) is what is considered to be a 'protected belief'. and if a belief is found to constitute a 'protected belief' then so too is the absence of that belief. so if 'anti-woke' is found to be protected so is the belief that the court has found 'anti-woke' to be in opposition to. again, it's not the only definition, but it is a definition which in the context of 'protected beliefs' now has some legal standing. [Post edited 1 Apr 14:08]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:09 - Apr 1 with 575 views | bartyg |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:07 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
i'm not claiming it to be the only definition - there are certainly others. the point is that the context here (it was the context you were so keen on) is what is considered to be a 'protected belief'. and if a belief is found to constitute a 'protected belief' then so too is the absence of that belief. so if 'anti-woke' is found to be protected so is the belief that the court has found 'anti-woke' to be in opposition to. again, it's not the only definition, but it is a definition which in the context of 'protected beliefs' now has some legal standing. [Post edited 1 Apr 14:08]
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One wonders why you were so keen on protected beliefs |  |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:11 - Apr 1 with 563 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:07 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
i'm not claiming it to be the only definition - there are certainly others. the point is that the context here (it was the context you were so keen on) is what is considered to be a 'protected belief'. and if a belief is found to constitute a 'protected belief' then so too is the absence of that belief. so if 'anti-woke' is found to be protected so is the belief that the court has found 'anti-woke' to be in opposition to. again, it's not the only definition, but it is a definition which in the context of 'protected beliefs' now has some legal standing. [Post edited 1 Apr 14:08]
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That's not correct. The commentary I posted clearly states that two beliefs have been outlined by the judgement as protected beliefs, 'hereditarism' and 'anti-woke ideology'. Nowhere is 'woke' as outlined in the judgement given the status of protected belief and nor would it be given the nature of the case, which was about protecting 'anti-woke ideology'. Again, the definition of 'woke' is given in the very narrow context of defining what those who believe in 'anti-woke ideology' see as being 'woke'. It's not that hard to understand. | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:12 - Apr 1 with 549 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:09 - Apr 1 by bartyg |
One wonders why you were so keen on protected beliefs |
because they are a fundamental protection to freedom of speech and diversity of opinion consistent with articles 9 and 10 of the european convention on human rights? are you not? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:13 - Apr 1 with 542 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:11 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
That's not correct. The commentary I posted clearly states that two beliefs have been outlined by the judgement as protected beliefs, 'hereditarism' and 'anti-woke ideology'. Nowhere is 'woke' as outlined in the judgement given the status of protected belief and nor would it be given the nature of the case, which was about protecting 'anti-woke ideology'. Again, the definition of 'woke' is given in the very narrow context of defining what those who believe in 'anti-woke ideology' see as being 'woke'. It's not that hard to understand. |
if a belief is found to constitute a 'protected belief' then so too is the absence of that belief. you need to read more widely. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:15 - Apr 1 with 542 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:13 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
if a belief is found to constitute a 'protected belief' then so too is the absence of that belief. you need to read more widely. |
Not being 'anti-woke' is the absence of that belief, not being 'woke' as per that definition. | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:16 - Apr 1 with 525 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:15 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
Not being 'anti-woke' is the absence of that belief, not being 'woke' as per that definition. |
no, but whatever. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 15:10 - Apr 1 with 486 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 14:16 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
no, but whatever. |
If what you're saying is correct then if anti-racism is a protected belief - which it would likely be given how they're defined - then racism would also be a protected belief and individuals couldn't be discriminated against in certain contexts because of their racist beliefs. I'd be interested to hear from some TWTD legal bods as to their views on this. | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 15:23 - Apr 1 with 468 views | benrhyddingblue |
They’re words the some people use for things they don’t like, when they can’t actually articulate a real reason for not liking them. | | | |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 15:35 - Apr 1 with 458 views | vilanovablue |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 15:44 - Apr 1 with 438 views | J2BLUE |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 15:35 - Apr 1 by vilanovablue |
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Was that a shot at James Dreyfus? |  |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 16:08 - Apr 1 with 397 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 15:10 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
If what you're saying is correct then if anti-racism is a protected belief - which it would likely be given how they're defined - then racism would also be a protected belief and individuals couldn't be discriminated against in certain contexts because of their racist beliefs. I'd be interested to hear from some TWTD legal bods as to their views on this. |
no because a protected belief has to be worthy of respect in that it must be compatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others in a democratic society. so racism is clearly excluded.
i don't know if any court has made a decision on 'anti-racism' because it's hard to imagine a situation when someone has been discriminated against because of it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 16:49 - Apr 1 with 371 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 16:08 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
no because a protected belief has to be worthy of respect in that it must be compatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others in a democratic society. so racism is clearly excluded.
i don't know if any court has made a decision on 'anti-racism' because it's hard to imagine a situation when someone has been discriminated against because of it. |
Okay but if anti-racism was a protected belief then you could also not be discriminated against for not being anti-racist. That wouldn't mean you are free to be racist, it would simply protect your right to not be believe in anti-racism. The same applies to anti-woke, that doesn't mean being woke is also now a protected belief (I can find nothing that supports this being the case) rather that not holding an anti-woke belief is protected from discrimination. | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 17:01 - Apr 1 with 347 views | lowhouseblue |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 16:49 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
Okay but if anti-racism was a protected belief then you could also not be discriminated against for not being anti-racist. That wouldn't mean you are free to be racist, it would simply protect your right to not be believe in anti-racism. The same applies to anti-woke, that doesn't mean being woke is also now a protected belief (I can find nothing that supports this being the case) rather that not holding an anti-woke belief is protected from discrimination. |
yeah, but you need to look at how 'anti-woke' has been explicitly defined. if someone genuinely and irrevocably believed (and met all the other criteria) that 'white people are morally accountable for all group disparities favouring whites' and expressed that belief in robust and uncomplimentary terms about white people as a group, and was then sacked by their employer because of those statements, they would have a plausible case for discrimination on the basis of belief, and the court decision we are discussing would be pretty helpful in establishing that they held a protected belief. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 18:39 - Apr 1 with 322 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 17:01 - Apr 1 by lowhouseblue |
yeah, but you need to look at how 'anti-woke' has been explicitly defined. if someone genuinely and irrevocably believed (and met all the other criteria) that 'white people are morally accountable for all group disparities favouring whites' and expressed that belief in robust and uncomplimentary terms about white people as a group, and was then sacked by their employer because of those statements, they would have a plausible case for discrimination on the basis of belief, and the court decision we are discussing would be pretty helpful in establishing that they held a protected belief. |
But we're back to the fact that the definition has been constructed in the context of establishing whether anti-woke counts as a belief and woke has been defined in very narrow terms (likely put forward on behalf of the individual making the claim that anti-woke is a protected belief) and so the definition is quite meaningless. If someone felt they'd been discriminated against because of their woke beliefs they would be making a claim for woke beliefs being a protected belief and would be arguing for a very different definition than this. The legal ruling does not assert that 'woke ideology' is now a protected belief, only that not holding 'anti-woke ideology' as a protected belief shouldn't be grounds for being discriminated against. That's not the same thing. The definition is used and is useful only in a very narrow sense of delimiting anti-woke ideology. | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 18:41 - Apr 1 with 318 views | Dubtractor |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 18:39 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
But we're back to the fact that the definition has been constructed in the context of establishing whether anti-woke counts as a belief and woke has been defined in very narrow terms (likely put forward on behalf of the individual making the claim that anti-woke is a protected belief) and so the definition is quite meaningless. If someone felt they'd been discriminated against because of their woke beliefs they would be making a claim for woke beliefs being a protected belief and would be arguing for a very different definition than this. The legal ruling does not assert that 'woke ideology' is now a protected belief, only that not holding 'anti-woke ideology' as a protected belief shouldn't be grounds for being discriminated against. That's not the same thing. The definition is used and is useful only in a very narrow sense of delimiting anti-woke ideology. |
Exactly this.
As you stated at the start, context is important. |  |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 19:02 - Apr 1 with 289 views | Mjs |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 18:41 - Apr 1 by Dubtractor |
Exactly this.
As you stated at the start, context is important. |
Also, antifa is thrown around as a slur. Our grandparents, fighting in wwII, were anti fascist. The og antifa. |  | | |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 19:26 - Apr 1 with 257 views | armchaircritic59 |
I wonder if you can be a leftie, woke, snowflake? It sounds like something that would wind a lot of people up. In which case I'd be proud to be called one! |  | | |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 19:52 - Apr 1 with 225 views | lazyblue |
Either your labour or god forbid Green Party other than that you have no issues with all the shops in Town that are just a front for dodgy goings on. Other than that you don’t see that the world (particularly this country) for what it is with people able to get jobs as they might sneeze and get ill. | | | |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 20:00 - Apr 1 with 213 views | Herbivore |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 19:52 - Apr 1 by lazyblue |
Either your labour or god forbid Green Party other than that you have no issues with all the shops in Town that are just a front for dodgy goings on. Other than that you don’t see that the world (particularly this country) for what it is with people able to get jobs as they might sneeze and get ill. |
What the feck are you on about? | |
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| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 20:05 - Apr 1 with 206 views | armchaircritic59 |
| The terms: Leftie, Woke, Snowflake on 20:00 - Apr 1 by Herbivore |
What the feck are you on about? |
I think it's language known as " gibberish ". I believe it's the first thing they teach you when you get into politics. | | | |
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