| One slight negative 18:33 - Apr 29 with 3136 views | GlasgowBlue |
We have spent most the season saying "win this game in hand or win that game in hand and we will be x amount pf points ahead in the table".
We have had three games in hand over our opponents this season. Blackburn, Portsmouth and Southampton. We got a total of 2 points from our games in hand.
That is pretty shit. |  |
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| One slight negative on 12:22 - Apr 30 with 564 views | _CliveBaker_ |
I'm not sure its particularly significant when the games are played, or whether they're in hand.
Ultimately everyone has played 45 and we're 2nd. Win on Saturday and we finish 2nd, on 84 points. It would probably be 5 - 8 or so short of what would be considered a really good return, but if its enough who cares. |  | | |
| Fat finger downvote Jerseys, sorry (n/t) on 12:23 - Apr 30 with 557 views | Dyland |
| One slight negative on 22:33 - Apr 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've seen plenty of mention of the games in hand, but no-one assuming we'd win them. |
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| One slight negative on 12:31 - Apr 30 with 533 views | witchdoctor |
| One slight negative on 18:41 - Apr 29 by Bobbychase |
Correct in a way but feels harsh given that we have just had three very, very difficult away games and took five points from them, and arguably could have had more. |
5 points? |  | | |
| One slight negative on 12:43 - Apr 30 with 515 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| One slight negative on 12:31 - Apr 30 by witchdoctor |
5 points? |
He means the last 3 games. Charlton, WBA & Southampton. | | | |
| One slight negative on 16:39 - Apr 30 with 429 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| One slight negative on 12:15 - Apr 30 by HighgateBlue |
Sure, it would have been better to win the games we didn't win.
If we beat QPR, nobody will mind which games we didn't win.
If we don't beat QPR and consequently don't finish 2nd, it will be because of what happened across the season as a whole that we have fallen short. Most obviously during the early part of the season rather than the late. |
When I commented about early season form it was dismissed, as if points collected in the opening 10 fixtures are wiped like bookings are, and are almost meaningless.
Hopefully it doesn't matter, but oh to have banked one more win early doors. |  | | |
| One slight negative on 16:44 - Apr 30 with 421 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Indeed, fortunately its been a low bar this season, with everyone dropping points left, right and centre!
Bar Cov of course. |  |
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| One slight negative on 00:36 - May 1 with 340 views | darkhorse28 |
We’ve stumbled all season. And the narrative we came together as a group is written if we go up, obvious, and measurable nonsense if we don’t. We’ve won two of last 7 is it, at the business end you have to go down to 14th to find teams winning fewer games.
That boro can go up, having been so poor for so long, tells a story.
But, it’s where we finish Saturday that counts, and arguably all that counts, we get the resources then and a young talented coach to go again.
Same decisions. And it’ll be the same outcome or worse. But there’s growth there for sure, and potential, a few new signings and who knows.
I always think McKenna works his socks off, is a talented coach, but also a lucky coach when he’s needed it.
23/24 I watched most games.., I’ve never seen so much resilience or so much luck in one season.
The recent pens, the leif red that wasn’t, the Birmingham and Boro decisions that went our way - we’ve a few more points than we maybe should have had these last few weeks, Nodgr pen too, I’ll say it, not a pen.
Normally I’d be sceptical of the football gods, after playing well at Southampton and not getting it done, the post, the save, the free header - all heading towards a kidney punch at the last hurdle.
But McKenna earns his luck - we win on Saturday, a tight 2-1 or 1-0. But a win…, and all the underwhelming performances. Gone - and (maybe) lessons learned and growth, or repeated, that’s football, win a game and write your own narrative, he’s earned the right at that point.
Just please god not Wrexham in the playoffs - god no. | | | |
| One slight negative on 04:36 - May 1 with 316 views | Esseeja |
| One slight negative on 12:07 - Apr 30 by longtimefan |
I think people forget the results and how nervy the end of the 23/24 Championship season was. It was far from straightforward and convincing. After the last minute winner against Southampton we lost the next one (Norwich) and then drew the next three, home games against Watford and Middlesbrough and away against Hull before settling things with the Coventry and Huddersfield wins. Fortunately Leeds were worse. |
I was never nervous during 23/24, I must have been one of the few who thought we would win every game we would win after we came back from 2-0 down against Cardiff, from what I was watching, we were unstoppable going forward and I thought we were quality at grinding out tough battles away from home. I legitimately thought we would break 100 points.
Shame Hirst got injured against Leicester because I thought it was possible we would even challenge Reading's 106. | | | |
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| One slight negative on 06:15 - May 1 with 278 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| One slight negative on 00:36 - May 1 by darkhorse28 |
We’ve stumbled all season. And the narrative we came together as a group is written if we go up, obvious, and measurable nonsense if we don’t. We’ve won two of last 7 is it, at the business end you have to go down to 14th to find teams winning fewer games.
That boro can go up, having been so poor for so long, tells a story.
But, it’s where we finish Saturday that counts, and arguably all that counts, we get the resources then and a young talented coach to go again.
Same decisions. And it’ll be the same outcome or worse. But there’s growth there for sure, and potential, a few new signings and who knows.
I always think McKenna works his socks off, is a talented coach, but also a lucky coach when he’s needed it.
23/24 I watched most games.., I’ve never seen so much resilience or so much luck in one season.
The recent pens, the leif red that wasn’t, the Birmingham and Boro decisions that went our way - we’ve a few more points than we maybe should have had these last few weeks, Nodgr pen too, I’ll say it, not a pen.
Normally I’d be sceptical of the football gods, after playing well at Southampton and not getting it done, the post, the save, the free header - all heading towards a kidney punch at the last hurdle.
But McKenna earns his luck - we win on Saturday, a tight 2-1 or 1-0. But a win…, and all the underwhelming performances. Gone - and (maybe) lessons learned and growth, or repeated, that’s football, win a game and write your own narrative, he’s earned the right at that point.
Just please god not Wrexham in the playoffs - god no. |
Interesting when you call us lucky and cite penalty decisions, that you completely omit the penalty decisions which cost us four points - and so wrong were they that the PGMOL apologised for them.
Disingenuous darkhorse, as ever. |  |
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| One slight negative on 08:59 - May 1 with 237 views | darkhorse28 |
| One slight negative on 18:44 - Apr 29 by braveblue |
After the performance on Tuesday night why try to find a negative? |
Because 46 games are often more instructive than one.
The narrative of Ashton/Mckenna will change tomorrow depending on one result, the truth of 5 years won’t though, lots of positives, lots of negatives, both will still be true.
That will instruct what happens long term more than one game.
We haven’t stepped up on the run in. Measurably. But we were excellent at Southampton.
Lower half of the table away and two wins in our block of final games, that’s not great by any measure, long term, short term, we’ve not been great, but it will be a huge success, both can be true, it is allowed. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:03 - May 1 with 236 views | darkhorse28 |
| One slight negative on 19:10 - Apr 29 by Illinoisblue |
Still in our hands though. Trying to think how far back in the season we’d have to go to find when autos wasn’t in our hands. Maybe it’s always been that way.
Saw a post from a Boro fan that showed the league table after 31 games and Boro were top with 61 points. All they had to do was get 22 points from 15 games and they’d be up. Boy they fk’d it up. |
And yet they can still go up on Saturday, and how many points have we taken and Southampton in the same period?
We’ve needed other teams to fail badly at various points, points total is the best metric…, it will be low for second place, last season it was 100 points!! …, from a side miles of premier league standard.
A win is a win though, can only beat what’s in front of you. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:07 - May 1 with 229 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| One slight negative on 06:15 - May 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Interesting when you call us lucky and cite penalty decisions, that you completely omit the penalty decisions which cost us four points - and so wrong were they that the PGMOL apologised for them.
Disingenuous darkhorse, as ever. |
I dare say you won't get a reply. He rambles on but never really defends some claims.
I'm still waiting to hear how we've spent £250m under Gamechanger. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:09 - May 1 with 226 views | darkhorse28 |
| One slight negative on 06:15 - May 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Interesting when you call us lucky and cite penalty decisions, that you completely omit the penalty decisions which cost us four points - and so wrong were they that the PGMOL apologised for them.
Disingenuous darkhorse, as ever. |
I didn’t. I just didn’t ignore the ones that have given us at least 6 points most recently, I’m not blinded by a club badge, sorry for being objective, and not a nodding dog.
We’ve been very lucky recently, except Southampton, one of the few games we deserved far more.
You could at least attempt objectivity, we all want to win, but no point making up pure fantasy…, goals chalked off that didn’t go out, late ones that weren’t pens, early ones that weren’t pens, and we’ve been sawn off to of course, but we’re well ahead overall.
Maybe you only remember the ones against us. They’re the only ones that count. Sake. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:15 - May 1 with 220 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| One slight negative on 09:09 - May 1 by darkhorse28 |
I didn’t. I just didn’t ignore the ones that have given us at least 6 points most recently, I’m not blinded by a club badge, sorry for being objective, and not a nodding dog.
We’ve been very lucky recently, except Southampton, one of the few games we deserved far more.
You could at least attempt objectivity, we all want to win, but no point making up pure fantasy…, goals chalked off that didn’t go out, late ones that weren’t pens, early ones that weren’t pens, and we’ve been sawn off to of course, but we’re well ahead overall.
Maybe you only remember the ones against us. They’re the only ones that count. Sake. |
What about the stone wall one against Leicester that possibly (likely) denied us 2 points, or the one against Derby that denied us 2 points, or the soft as shit one Stoke got that denied us 2 points?
On balance throughout the season I think its very hard to argue we've come out of marginal decisions favourably.
Norwich is the only one we've been given where I didn't think it was a penalty, and even that one you can see why its given when their player is swinging his leg that high in the area. Middlesbrough was just ridiculous defending, there's no need to give the ref that decision to make and it wasn't dissimilar to the one given against Furlong at Watford. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:16 - May 1 with 217 views | darkhorse28 |
| One slight negative on 09:07 - May 1 by _CliveBaker_ |
I dare say you won't get a reply. He rambles on but never really defends some claims.
I'm still waiting to hear how we've spent £250m under Gamechanger. |
I can’t always find threads where I’ve replied if I’m honest, not ignoring anyone etc
How much have we spent under gamechanger?
Not sure the number to the penny is the point? …, some in here still conflate us Forest Green, Cheltenham etc
Work out the number - then the number those league one clubs many want to measure us against have spent, combined, in their entire history. Then work out what Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth spent net in that period and who’s more successful.
You get the point. You likely agree with it. Yet here you are.
We spent European leading sums, with relatively poor outcomes.
We were better when we had no money, better outcomes relative to resources. We’ll need to have a completely different approach this summer, and maybe we will. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:18 - May 1 with 211 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| One slight negative on 16:44 - Apr 30 by Wallingford_Boy |
Indeed, fortunately its been a low bar this season, with everyone dropping points left, right and centre!
Bar Cov of course. |
Even they lost a 10 point lead.
It's a well known, unwritten rule of football, that if you have a game in hand, you just add three points to your total. Everybody does it, when in reality it doesn't mean anything at all. |  |
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| One slight negative on 09:20 - May 1 with 205 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| One slight negative on 00:36 - May 1 by darkhorse28 |
We’ve stumbled all season. And the narrative we came together as a group is written if we go up, obvious, and measurable nonsense if we don’t. We’ve won two of last 7 is it, at the business end you have to go down to 14th to find teams winning fewer games.
That boro can go up, having been so poor for so long, tells a story.
But, it’s where we finish Saturday that counts, and arguably all that counts, we get the resources then and a young talented coach to go again.
Same decisions. And it’ll be the same outcome or worse. But there’s growth there for sure, and potential, a few new signings and who knows.
I always think McKenna works his socks off, is a talented coach, but also a lucky coach when he’s needed it.
23/24 I watched most games.., I’ve never seen so much resilience or so much luck in one season.
The recent pens, the leif red that wasn’t, the Birmingham and Boro decisions that went our way - we’ve a few more points than we maybe should have had these last few weeks, Nodgr pen too, I’ll say it, not a pen.
Normally I’d be sceptical of the football gods, after playing well at Southampton and not getting it done, the post, the save, the free header - all heading towards a kidney punch at the last hurdle.
But McKenna earns his luck - we win on Saturday, a tight 2-1 or 1-0. But a win…, and all the underwhelming performances. Gone - and (maybe) lessons learned and growth, or repeated, that’s football, win a game and write your own narrative, he’s earned the right at that point.
Just please god not Wrexham in the playoffs - god no. |
You like to throw about random stats that are incorrect.
We have won 3 of our last 7 which puts us 8th in the form table. 2 of our last 6 puts us 10th so your down to 14th in the table is clear nonsense. |  |
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| One slight negative on 09:21 - May 1 with 206 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| One slight negative on 09:16 - May 1 by darkhorse28 |
I can’t always find threads where I’ve replied if I’m honest, not ignoring anyone etc
How much have we spent under gamechanger?
Not sure the number to the penny is the point? …, some in here still conflate us Forest Green, Cheltenham etc
Work out the number - then the number those league one clubs many want to measure us against have spent, combined, in their entire history. Then work out what Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth spent net in that period and who’s more successful.
You get the point. You likely agree with it. Yet here you are.
We spent European leading sums, with relatively poor outcomes.
We were better when we had no money, better outcomes relative to resources. We’ll need to have a completely different approach this summer, and maybe we will. |
My point is you've regularly quoted £250m, which simply isn't true however you cut it.
Net spend from day 1 of takeover to today is in the region of £120m. We're not talking about to the penny, that's quite a significant overstatement.
£120m to take us from 11th in L1 to 2nd in the Championship and on the coattails of our 2nd Premier League season in 3. I would imagine the book value of the squad is at least that much higher than at takeover, which really is the main measure.
Some we've sold at a profit (Delap, Hutchinson, Broadhead), some still here and worth more than we paid (Davis the most notable example) and some here and probably worth less (Szmodics, Ogbene).
I'm not for a second suggesting its been spent as well as possible, especially more recently, but on balance we've got our value for the net spend. Its like a portfolio of shares, some go down and some go up, but the measure of success really is on the whole. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:27 - May 1 with 195 views | darkhorse28 |
| One slight negative on 09:15 - May 1 by _CliveBaker_ |
What about the stone wall one against Leicester that possibly (likely) denied us 2 points, or the one against Derby that denied us 2 points, or the soft as shit one Stoke got that denied us 2 points?
On balance throughout the season I think its very hard to argue we've come out of marginal decisions favourably.
Norwich is the only one we've been given where I didn't think it was a penalty, and even that one you can see why its given when their player is swinging his leg that high in the area. Middlesbrough was just ridiculous defending, there's no need to give the ref that decision to make and it wasn't dissimilar to the one given against Furlong at Watford. |
Erm, yeah, Boro was shocking defending, no need to be anywhere near him, barely touched him though, so when was ‘bad defending’ a penalty??
That’s not even close to a foul outside the box, and the ref panicked, not even 1% a pen. Outside the box the ref is boll@cking Hirst and maybe booking him. Went down like he’d been shot, barely touched him at all.
And the mystery out of play? Goal against Birmingham.
Your right about some of the shockers we’ve had, but context is important, I don’t get upset if we’ve played badly, Stoke we were dreadful, and we’ve got more results we didn’t deserve than been denied results we did.
You might not like it. But it’s true. SO poor against Stoke, awful, and Boro second half too, just poor, Norwich we agree on but who cares, we deserved the win, played really well and didn’t need it, I’m not sure it changed the result, we turned up.
We’ve been very lucky. Recently certainly. And we have needed it too.
The point was mostly about 23/24 tbh - and McKenna getting the right side, we deserved it that season, worked SO hard, we’re SO together …, but many times I said to myself I’ve never seen us have so much luck in one season, ever, and if it evens out we are screwed. And it never did.
From QPR away when Sinclair hit both posts with a shot and we win 1-0 to lots of examples where we got the right side of tight margins.
The point was actually, no need to worry about Saturday.
McKenna has Lady Luck playing in the 10. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:32 - May 1 with 185 views | Bramidan |
| One slight negative on 09:18 - May 1 by JammyDodgerrr |
Even they lost a 10 point lead.
It's a well known, unwritten rule of football, that if you have a game in hand, you just add three points to your total. Everybody does it, when in reality it doesn't mean anything at all. |
Games in hand mean nothing in a league table they are not points.
Yes they give the opportunity of gaining more points but that’s not a given, form changes,injured players come back, eg Portsmouth.
Sometimes I think there is a slight liability “oh well that defeat wasn’t that bad we still have games in hand”
Until those games in hand are not as productive as you hoped. | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:37 - May 1 with 166 views | lazyblue |
Forget about the damn negative at the moment please . | | | |
| One slight negative on 09:39 - May 1 with 161 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| One slight negative on 12:19 - Apr 30 by baxterbasics |
Yup we really could - arguably should - be out of sight by now. All if's but's and maybe's though isn't it? |
Perhaps but equally Boro looked home and then completely imploded. Milwall took the place and then lost a couple of winnable games.
I'm sure all of us feel like we should be up by now but really its been an up and down race. |  |
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| One slight negative on 10:58 - May 1 with 119 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| One slight negative on 09:09 - May 1 by darkhorse28 |
I didn’t. I just didn’t ignore the ones that have given us at least 6 points most recently, I’m not blinded by a club badge, sorry for being objective, and not a nodding dog.
We’ve been very lucky recently, except Southampton, one of the few games we deserved far more.
You could at least attempt objectivity, we all want to win, but no point making up pure fantasy…, goals chalked off that didn’t go out, late ones that weren’t pens, early ones that weren’t pens, and we’ve been sawn off to of course, but we’re well ahead overall.
Maybe you only remember the ones against us. They’re the only ones that count. Sake. |
Erm, you definitely did omit them, unless they're written in invisible ink.
The PGMOL literally apologised for them, so how on earth is that being blinded by the club badge? The ones we've got, that might be considered fortunate, are subjective and largely just your twisted opinion. Where's your evidence, like I have cited with the PGMOL?
Even if some decisions were iffy, I fail to see where we've gained 6 points from them. Two wins entirely down to dodgy penalty decisions?! Absolute nonsense.
The idea that you're objective about anything ITFC is laughable. One only needs to look at your posting history of hate. | |
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| One slight negative on 11:27 - May 1 with 96 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| One slight negative on 09:27 - May 1 by darkhorse28 |
Erm, yeah, Boro was shocking defending, no need to be anywhere near him, barely touched him though, so when was ‘bad defending’ a penalty??
That’s not even close to a foul outside the box, and the ref panicked, not even 1% a pen. Outside the box the ref is boll@cking Hirst and maybe booking him. Went down like he’d been shot, barely touched him at all.
And the mystery out of play? Goal against Birmingham.
Your right about some of the shockers we’ve had, but context is important, I don’t get upset if we’ve played badly, Stoke we were dreadful, and we’ve got more results we didn’t deserve than been denied results we did.
You might not like it. But it’s true. SO poor against Stoke, awful, and Boro second half too, just poor, Norwich we agree on but who cares, we deserved the win, played really well and didn’t need it, I’m not sure it changed the result, we turned up.
We’ve been very lucky. Recently certainly. And we have needed it too.
The point was mostly about 23/24 tbh - and McKenna getting the right side, we deserved it that season, worked SO hard, we’re SO together …, but many times I said to myself I’ve never seen us have so much luck in one season, ever, and if it evens out we are screwed. And it never did.
From QPR away when Sinclair hit both posts with a shot and we win 1-0 to lots of examples where we got the right side of tight margins.
The point was actually, no need to worry about Saturday.
McKenna has Lady Luck playing in the 10. |
I don't think its lucky over a 46 game period. I would say we've left more points on the table than we've undeservedly nicked this season. I think back to games like Derby and Wrexham at home where we've taken 2 points despite being dominant in both.
We're 2nd on Xg created, 3rd on goals scored, 2nd on Xg against, 3rd on goals conceded, we're the most fouled team in the league and we're 2nd on points. Its not the 2 same teams ahead of us in those metrics where we're 3rd either.
Over the balance of the season I don't really get how anyone could say we don't deserve 2nd when we've been the 2nd best team across the main metrics. Millwall aren't ahead of us in any of them, yet its us that will be lucky apparently. | | | |
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