| MP resigning so Burnham can stand 17:21 - May 14 with 11071 views | NthQldITFC |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/liv
Labour MP says he's resigning so Andy Burnham can stand
Labour MP Josh Simons has just issued a statement: "Today, I am putting the people I represent and the country I love first and will be resigning as MP for Makerfield.
I am standing aside so that Andy Burnham can return to his home." |  |
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| I wouldn't risk more than.... on 11:41 - May 16 with 1264 views | pointofblue |
| I wouldn't risk more than.... on 11:26 - May 16 by StokieBlue |
Indeed.
It's very possible that he won't push for PR as there will be plenty against it across the entire political spectrum.
I would be surprised if it was something he pushed for as well but as it stands it's a consideration.
SB [Post edited 16 May 11:27]
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I think the issue he'll have is getting the wider party to agree to PR, especially as I can see there being other issues which MPs will want him to focus his attention on. That's if he even wins Makerfield. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:46 - May 16 with 1238 views | leitrimblue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:08 - May 16 by Whos_blue |
Nah.
Andy goes back to the frying pan with his crusts to mop up the fat. |
Think Andy may have just got my vote |  | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:08 - May 17 with 1090 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 17:36 - May 14 by DJR |
Josh Simons is a Labour Together man and thus aligned with Wes Streeting.
In the local elections in the area, Reform won 24 out of 25 seats.
Maybe Simons is offering Burnham a poisoned chalice for a reason. 
If not, his letter suggests a Damascene conversion. [Post edited 14 May 17:39]
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More Machiavellianism?
1. Streeting in a speech to Progress yesterday talks about wanting to rejoin the EU at a time when Burnham is fighting in a seat where 65% voted for Brexit.
2. Reform now say they are going to make Brexit front and centre stage of the by-election.
3. If Burnham plays down the prospect of rejoining, he loses credibililty with Labour members who feel strongly about this, perhaps boosting support for Streeting in a leadership election.
Interestingly, Josh Simons is reported as being very close to blue Labour Mahmood, which doesn't suggest to me a Damascene conversion.
More generally I might add that pushing the prospect of rejoining the EU at this stage of the electoral cycle seems to me electoral suicide for Labour because it risks reforming 52% coalition which voted for Brexit. [Post edited 17 May 9:19]
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:45 - May 17 with 1021 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:08 - May 17 by DJR |
More Machiavellianism?
1. Streeting in a speech to Progress yesterday talks about wanting to rejoin the EU at a time when Burnham is fighting in a seat where 65% voted for Brexit.
2. Reform now say they are going to make Brexit front and centre stage of the by-election.
3. If Burnham plays down the prospect of rejoining, he loses credibililty with Labour members who feel strongly about this, perhaps boosting support for Streeting in a leadership election.
Interestingly, Josh Simons is reported as being very close to blue Labour Mahmood, which doesn't suggest to me a Damascene conversion.
More generally I might add that pushing the prospect of rejoining the EU at this stage of the electoral cycle seems to me electoral suicide for Labour because it risks reforming 52% coalition which voted for Brexit. [Post edited 17 May 9:19]
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Burnham has said leaving the EU was a terrible mistake for this country, and while rejoining should be something we aim for in the future it should not be in the discussion now, we should be focussed on the problems at home first. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 12:18 - May 17 with 990 views | DJR |
This, from the Observer, highlights a lacuna that Reform used to good effect during the recent local elections in England.
"How Reform could buy Makerfield byelection
The Makerfield byelection could become “the wild west” of campaign financing, with experts warning Reform may redeploy the same big-spending tactics it used to win seats across the UK in the local elections.
Theoretically parties are subject to a spending limit of £180,000 over the short campaign period of a byelection. Until now that limit has been considered sufficient. But quirks in electoral law mean that if a party campaigns on a national message, there is potentially no limit to how much money it can throw at a byelection. Parties may also be exempt from recording how much they have spent during the campaign, if it is categorised as national.
As The Observer reported last week, it is thought Reform used this approach ahead of this month’s local elections by primarily focusing their campaign adverts on Keir Starmer and Nigel Farage.
“This one will have to have more scrutiny than byelections in the past,” said Shaun Roberts, from Unlock Democracy, “but even then you won’t know whether they are exploiting [this loophole] at all until potentially after the election.”
A Labour MP said he feared Reform could use this approach. “All the campaign literature I saw during the locals was national… We saw them do it in [the Gorton and Denton byelection], and saw them do it in the locals, so I have grave concerns they’ll do it again here.”
It is understood the Greens spent more than £173,000 in Gorton and Denton. Reform did not respond to requests for comment."
Expect Reform with a vast war chest to exploit this to the max with targeted nationally-focused ads and mailshots no doubt focused on things like the betrayal of Brext. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 12:21 - May 17 with 989 views | pointofblue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:08 - May 17 by DJR |
More Machiavellianism?
1. Streeting in a speech to Progress yesterday talks about wanting to rejoin the EU at a time when Burnham is fighting in a seat where 65% voted for Brexit.
2. Reform now say they are going to make Brexit front and centre stage of the by-election.
3. If Burnham plays down the prospect of rejoining, he loses credibililty with Labour members who feel strongly about this, perhaps boosting support for Streeting in a leadership election.
Interestingly, Josh Simons is reported as being very close to blue Labour Mahmood, which doesn't suggest to me a Damascene conversion.
More generally I might add that pushing the prospect of rejoining the EU at this stage of the electoral cycle seems to me electoral suicide for Labour because it risks reforming 52% coalition which voted for Brexit. [Post edited 17 May 9:19]
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Or... bear with me... Burnham and Streeting could be working in perverse unison.
Streeting is the only candidate to state he'd enter a leadership contest. He is now said he'd like to rejoin the EU whilst Burnham is fighting a seat which voted for Brexit. If they elect the Reform candidate, then the likelihood of Streeting becoming PM increases. If they elect Burnham, he's far more likely to become PM and, as said above, has stated rejoining the EU is not a priority, so at the very least pushes the issue down the road. So it'd be more beneficial for them to elect Burnham at this stage. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 21:01 - May 17 with 917 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 12:21 - May 17 by pointofblue |
Or... bear with me... Burnham and Streeting could be working in perverse unison.
Streeting is the only candidate to state he'd enter a leadership contest. He is now said he'd like to rejoin the EU whilst Burnham is fighting a seat which voted for Brexit. If they elect the Reform candidate, then the likelihood of Streeting becoming PM increases. If they elect Burnham, he's far more likely to become PM and, as said above, has stated rejoining the EU is not a priority, so at the very least pushes the issue down the road. So it'd be more beneficial for them to elect Burnham at this stage. |
Maybe I was right though.
"Labour figures say they believe Burnham’s job was made harder over the weekend by a public row about whether the UK should rejoin the EU after comments from another likely leadership rival, Wes Streeting." | | | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:50 - May 18 with 810 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 21:01 - May 17 by DJR |
Maybe I was right though.
"Labour figures say they believe Burnham’s job was made harder over the weekend by a public row about whether the UK should rejoin the EU after comments from another likely leadership rival, Wes Streeting." |
A public row? Did I miss something? All I saw was Streeting saying we should rejoin one day while Burnham said there’s a case for rejoining the EU in the long term. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:06 - May 18 with 795 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:50 - May 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
A public row? Did I miss something? All I saw was Streeting saying we should rejoin one day while Burnham said there’s a case for rejoining the EU in the long term. |
Have you seen today's headlines, which in my view are a direct consequence of Streeting being so explicit at a time when Burnham is fighting a by-election?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:13 - May 18 with 768 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:06 - May 18 by DJR |
Have you seen today's headlines, which in my view are a direct consequence of Streeting being so explicit at a time when Burnham is fighting a by-election?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art |
You posted that yesterday! Unless you have a time machine you can't use today's headlines to justify what you said yesterday!
This "public row" is something invented by the press to sell papers/get clicks. Streeting and Burnham broadly agree, except Burnham says local stuff is more important right now. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:23 - May 18 with 761 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:13 - May 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You posted that yesterday! Unless you have a time machine you can't use today's headlines to justify what you said yesterday!
This "public row" is something invented by the press to sell papers/get clicks. Streeting and Burnham broadly agree, except Burnham says local stuff is more important right now. |
I posted the following yesterday, and today's headlines could be said to prove the point I was making.
"More Machiavellianism?
1. Streeting in a speech to Progress yesterday talks about wanting to rejoin the EU at a time when Burnham is fighting in a seat where 65% voted for Brexit.
2. Reform now say they are going to make Brexit front and centre stage of the by-election.
3. If Burnham plays down the prospect of rejoining, he loses credibililty with Labour members who feel strongly about this, perhaps boosting support for Streeting in a leadership election.
Interestingly, Josh Simons is reported as being very close to blue Labour Mahmood, which doesn't suggest to me a Damascene conversion.
More generally I might add that pushing the prospect of rejoining the EU at this stage of the electoral cycle seems to me electoral suicide for Labour because it risks reforming the 52% coalition which voted for Brexit." [Post edited 18 May 8:27]
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:07 - May 18 with 728 views | Pinewoodblue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:23 - May 18 by DJR |
I posted the following yesterday, and today's headlines could be said to prove the point I was making.
"More Machiavellianism?
1. Streeting in a speech to Progress yesterday talks about wanting to rejoin the EU at a time when Burnham is fighting in a seat where 65% voted for Brexit.
2. Reform now say they are going to make Brexit front and centre stage of the by-election.
3. If Burnham plays down the prospect of rejoining, he loses credibililty with Labour members who feel strongly about this, perhaps boosting support for Streeting in a leadership election.
Interestingly, Josh Simons is reported as being very close to blue Labour Mahmood, which doesn't suggest to me a Damascene conversion.
More generally I might add that pushing the prospect of rejoining the EU at this stage of the electoral cycle seems to me electoral suicide for Labour because it risks reforming the 52% coalition which voted for Brexit." [Post edited 18 May 8:27]
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There is no guarantee Burnham will win the By-Election if he is the selected candidate.
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It is foolish to take the electorate for granted. You can almost guarantee the Conservative vote will almost disappear and it was reckoned that nationally 30% of those who voted for Brexit voted Labour in 2017.
Labour have a fight in their hands. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:09 - May 18 with 721 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:07 - May 18 by Pinewoodblue |
There is no guarantee Burnham will win the By-Election if he is the selected candidate.
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It is foolish to take the electorate for granted. You can almost guarantee the Conservative vote will almost disappear and it was reckoned that nationally 30% of those who voted for Brexit voted Labour in 2017.
Labour have a fight in their hands. |
Absolutely. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:51 - May 18 with 681 views | GlasgowBlue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:23 - May 18 by DJR |
I posted the following yesterday, and today's headlines could be said to prove the point I was making.
"More Machiavellianism?
1. Streeting in a speech to Progress yesterday talks about wanting to rejoin the EU at a time when Burnham is fighting in a seat where 65% voted for Brexit.
2. Reform now say they are going to make Brexit front and centre stage of the by-election.
3. If Burnham plays down the prospect of rejoining, he loses credibililty with Labour members who feel strongly about this, perhaps boosting support for Streeting in a leadership election.
Interestingly, Josh Simons is reported as being very close to blue Labour Mahmood, which doesn't suggest to me a Damascene conversion.
More generally I might add that pushing the prospect of rejoining the EU at this stage of the electoral cycle seems to me electoral suicide for Labour because it risks reforming the 52% coalition which voted for Brexit." [Post edited 18 May 8:27]
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I tend to agree with you that this is clever politics by Streeting. The last thing Burnham wants or needs is for the Brexit debate to be opened up whilst he is campaigning in a predominantly Reform constituency.
But this is to all intents and purposes a primary for the Labour leadership so it’s quite funny to see the pro Burnham Labour MP’s arguing that leadership contenders should not discuss difficult policy. We can’t have “Ming Vase” policy part 2. People are entitled to know what the leadership candidates stand for. [Post edited 18 May 9:52]
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:00 - May 18 with 666 views | Swansea_Blue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:51 - May 18 by GlasgowBlue |
I tend to agree with you that this is clever politics by Streeting. The last thing Burnham wants or needs is for the Brexit debate to be opened up whilst he is campaigning in a predominantly Reform constituency.
But this is to all intents and purposes a primary for the Labour leadership so it’s quite funny to see the pro Burnham Labour MP’s arguing that leadership contenders should not discuss difficult policy. We can’t have “Ming Vase” policy part 2. People are entitled to know what the leadership candidates stand for. [Post edited 18 May 9:52]
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I’d have thought Brexit is the last thing Farage wants to talk about given everyone can now see that he was a shameless liar about it. You don’t hear him bring it up himself any more.
I’m not sure whether this bud is a brave and bold move by Burnham or political suicide. Time will tell I suppose. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:30 - May 18 with 632 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:51 - May 18 by GlasgowBlue |
I tend to agree with you that this is clever politics by Streeting. The last thing Burnham wants or needs is for the Brexit debate to be opened up whilst he is campaigning in a predominantly Reform constituency.
But this is to all intents and purposes a primary for the Labour leadership so it’s quite funny to see the pro Burnham Labour MP’s arguing that leadership contenders should not discuss difficult policy. We can’t have “Ming Vase” policy part 2. People are entitled to know what the leadership candidates stand for. [Post edited 18 May 9:52]
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I think a party being in government puts time pressures on the sort of proper debate about ideas that would take place when in opposition. There are also aspects of the manifesto which politically limit things, including a commitment not to join the customs union or the single market.
Indeed, it's a reason leadership changes ideally shouldn't take place when in government, but the pass has been sold on that.
For my own part, and I didn't vote for Brexit, I think it should as a matter of democratic principle be off the table for quite some time, just as people say the Scottish independence vote settled things for a generation.
And here is a couple of snippets from the Guardian with which I agree.
The Labour MP Jonathan Hinder told the Today programme this morning that for Wes Streeting to suggest the UK should rejoin the EU was a “staggering level of out of touch”.
Hinder said:
We are just over a week after we took a real beating in our working-class heartlands.
It’s a very long list – we’re talking about the Hartlepools, the Grimsbys, Barnsley, places like Wigan, where this byelection is going to be, and we were losing to a party [Reform UK] which until recently was called the Brexit party.
And to suggest the solution now is for us to reopen that debate is just staggering, and the Labour party is in an existential crisis, it really is, and the idea that we can reconnect to our working-class base by reopening this debate is just a staggering level of out of touch."
In almost all his interviews this morning, David Lammy, the deputy PM, urged Labour to abandon infighting, warning that if the party did not unite, it would pave the way for a Reform UK election victory.
He told Sky News:
Now is the time to stop the own goals, to get on the pitch, to pass the ball amongst ourselves, to play in the right direction, to score some goals on behalf of the British public.
Introspection and internecine warfare – effectively, some of our colleagues lighting the match and standing in the petrol – that is not what’s going to deliver for the British people.
That’s not what’s going to deliver for the British people. What that will usher in is Farage. [Post edited 18 May 10:52]
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:50 - May 18 with 602 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:00 - May 18 by Swansea_Blue |
I’d have thought Brexit is the last thing Farage wants to talk about given everyone can now see that he was a shameless liar about it. You don’t hear him bring it up himself any more.
I’m not sure whether this bud is a brave and bold move by Burnham or political suicide. Time will tell I suppose. |
He's more than happy to because it hits an emotional nerve.
And the argument he and other Brexiteers use is that it isn't Brexit which is the problem but instead the way it was implemented, eg the "Boriswave". | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:52 - May 18 with 591 views | mellowblue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:50 - May 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
A public row? Did I miss something? All I saw was Streeting saying we should rejoin one day while Burnham said there’s a case for rejoining the EU in the long term. |
Burnham had to row back a bit from re-joining in the nearer future. After all the constituency he is standing in had a high brexit vote, so really no candidates other than Reform will benefit from the E.U re-entry being debated now. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:19 - May 18 with 553 views | GlasgowBlue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 10:00 - May 18 by Swansea_Blue |
I’d have thought Brexit is the last thing Farage wants to talk about given everyone can now see that he was a shameless liar about it. You don’t hear him bring it up himself any more.
I’m not sure whether this bud is a brave and bold move by Burnham or political suicide. Time will tell I suppose. |
And yet Reform lead the polls under our FPTP system. The "Brexit" vote doesn't have to get a majority at the by election. They have to get more votes then the remaion votes which will be spread between Labour, Green, Liberal and some Conservatives. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:54 - May 18 with 499 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:51 - May 18 by GlasgowBlue |
I tend to agree with you that this is clever politics by Streeting. The last thing Burnham wants or needs is for the Brexit debate to be opened up whilst he is campaigning in a predominantly Reform constituency.
But this is to all intents and purposes a primary for the Labour leadership so it’s quite funny to see the pro Burnham Labour MP’s arguing that leadership contenders should not discuss difficult policy. We can’t have “Ming Vase” policy part 2. People are entitled to know what the leadership candidates stand for. [Post edited 18 May 9:52]
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I thought Burnham handled it/shut it down rather well. It's clearly been bad for this country, rejoining in the future is clearly a discussion that should be had, but right now he's focussing on local issues. No more needs to be said. Streeting appears to be swinging desperately, hoping for a 6, while Burnham's playing a measured, straight bat. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:58 - May 18 with 485 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:19 - May 18 by GlasgowBlue |
And yet Reform lead the polls under our FPTP system. The "Brexit" vote doesn't have to get a majority at the by election. They have to get more votes then the remaion votes which will be spread between Labour, Green, Liberal and some Conservatives. |
The Brexit vote is a sideshow. This is a by-election. People are voting for if they want Burnham as their MP, primarily, and if they want a change of direction for Labour. They're not voting on a single issue like Brexit. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 13:39 - May 18 with 407 views | DJR |
Perhaps the biggest downside of Streeting's intervention is James O'Brien, the illiberal liberals illiberal liberal, devoting two hours of his programme today to Brexit.
It was a re-run of his greatest hits, but does he really think his condescendence and sneering will win over a single person who voted Brexit? | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 13:43 - May 18 with 390 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 11:58 - May 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The Brexit vote is a sideshow. This is a by-election. People are voting for if they want Burnham as their MP, primarily, and if they want a change of direction for Labour. They're not voting on a single issue like Brexit. |
I doubt there is a single Reform voter who didn't vote for Brexit.
In the constituency, every ward at the recent elections voted Reform.
Reform and the media will make it about a betrayal of Brexit by Labour.
Of course, Burnham will have a personal vote but it is going to be a damn close call, made far worse by Streeting. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 13:48 - May 18 with 372 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 13:39 - May 18 by DJR |
Perhaps the biggest downside of Streeting's intervention is James O'Brien, the illiberal liberals illiberal liberal, devoting two hours of his programme today to Brexit.
It was a re-run of his greatest hits, but does he really think his condescendence and sneering will win over a single person who voted Brexit? |
I wouldn't have thought so. That's not his job. | |
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