| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize 11:21 - May 20 with 1347 views | Lion |
even though they lost. It just doesn't sit right with me. Forget Southampton's punishment for a sec, does it sit right with you? Shouldn't Middlesborough have to play Millwall, who also lost, for the chance to go to the final rather than just be given it?
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:23 - May 20 with 1155 views | gainsboroughblue |
So if Millwall beat Boro, Hull then have to play in the final against the team they beat to get there? |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:26 - May 20 with 1120 views | Guthrum |
Boro played Southampton under the rules, the latter have forfeited their place in the play-offs, so the losing team go through by default. Why is that seen as somehow illogical?
Edit: It's also not a 'second chance', but their first chance reinstated due to foul play by the opponent. [Post edited 20 May 11:29]
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:31 - May 20 with 1070 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
No because the team Millwall lost against hasn’t been proven to have cheated against them
Have some sympathy with the view that it’s a bit unfair on Hull to be caught up in the process and not knowing who they’ll be playing, but can’t understand why anyone thinks Boro are unfairly benefitting and the fact Southampton have been proven to have cheated against them isn’t somehow relevant to the outcome of that tie |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:32 - May 20 with 1059 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:26 - May 20 by Guthrum |
Boro played Southampton under the rules, the latter have forfeited their place in the play-offs, so the losing team go through by default. Why is that seen as somehow illogical?
Edit: It's also not a 'second chance', but their first chance reinstated due to foul play by the opponent. [Post edited 20 May 11:29]
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Yep. Under 'normal' rules, the team is either thrown out for breaking the rules or has a 3:0 score awarded against them for just that second leg.
On both, Southampton are out. |  | | |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:35 - May 20 with 1036 views | NedPlimpton |
The value of the prize is irrelevant
Southampton were trying to gain an unfair advantage against Boro. Regardless of whether that paid off or not, and it's difficult to say for definite because Boro missed a lots of chances, it was still a case of Southampton cheating against Boro
I see it as being similar to teams getting kicked out of the FA cup for fielding an ineligible player. You don't give every other side in that round another chance, you give a bye to the team they were playing against |  | | |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:38 - May 20 with 1010 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Does cheating multiple times across the season, by their own admission sit right with you?
Does spying on your opponents to steal an advantage in a multimillion pound game sit right?
Does giving Millwall another shot at it, when they lost fair and square to a team that didn't cheat sit right?
The low tolerance to what is repeated cheating by one of the teams in the league from some posters certainly doesn't sit right with me. [Post edited 20 May 11:39]
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:50 - May 20 with 934 views | Ryorry |
This strange take on events has been discussed several times and dismissed for its illogicality on other threads in the past couple of days. |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:52 - May 20 with 915 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Either you're trolling or you're a bit dim. You think Millwall should get a second chance at playing for a £300m prize but it doesn't sit right with you that Middlesbrough (the team spied against) should?
And also, as someone else pointed out, that throws up the weird possibility of Hull beating Millwall in the semis but going out to them in the final! Bonkers! |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 12:33 - May 20 with 823 views | Lion |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 11:23 - May 20 by gainsboroughblue |
So if Millwall beat Boro, Hull then have to play in the final against the team they beat to get there? |
Yes! ;0) | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 12:41 - May 20 with 798 views | Herbivore |
Middlesbrough have arguably been doubly disadvantaged by Saints' cheating. Not only were they spied on, the point Saints got against us - who they also spied on - meant they finished above Boro and had home advantage in the second leg. I don't see how anyone can really see this as being particularly unfair, other than on Hull who have been dicked around. Saints deserve to be booted out and Boro should be reinstated given their opponent cheated. It's pretty clearcut for me. |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:26 - May 20 with 644 views | Lion |
1) I was bored
2) All the 'penalty Ipswich' and salty crap Middlesborough were writing about us seems to have been forgotten about by some of you who have commented, very forgiving of you all. It seems some of you are much more willing to forgive other clubs fans than your own for expressing an opinion. If I or other TOWN fans put up a 'stupid comment' maybe remember that the person may be stupid, but they are a stupid Town fan so give them a bit of slack! ;0)
3) I don't actually think M'boro should replay Milwall, that was a bit tongue in cheek but I also don't know if the punishment is a bit too much. Put yourself in the place of their fans if it was Ipswich who had been thrown out. At the end of the day M'boro lost, i think it would have been better if they had to pay M'Boro 10 million quid or so. An amount that would give M'Boro a small advantage over the other ( non premiership parachute ) championship clubs.
4) Maybe I am wrong, some of you have very strong opinions on this. But because some knob with a camera ( yes, on Southampton payroll ) was caught spying on MBoro training they get put into a final where i would expect they are heavy favourites with the biggest prize of the football world on offer. They spied on us, but we didn't lose did we? So, I am still wrestling with it in my head but the prize that MBoro have won feels too big and the Southampton punishment feels too big. If anyone should have benefited, maybe it should have been Hull because they legitimately reached the final. | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:33 - May 20 with 606 views | Steve_M |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:26 - May 20 by Lion |
1) I was bored
2) All the 'penalty Ipswich' and salty crap Middlesborough were writing about us seems to have been forgotten about by some of you who have commented, very forgiving of you all. It seems some of you are much more willing to forgive other clubs fans than your own for expressing an opinion. If I or other TOWN fans put up a 'stupid comment' maybe remember that the person may be stupid, but they are a stupid Town fan so give them a bit of slack! ;0)
3) I don't actually think M'boro should replay Milwall, that was a bit tongue in cheek but I also don't know if the punishment is a bit too much. Put yourself in the place of their fans if it was Ipswich who had been thrown out. At the end of the day M'boro lost, i think it would have been better if they had to pay M'Boro 10 million quid or so. An amount that would give M'Boro a small advantage over the other ( non premiership parachute ) championship clubs.
4) Maybe I am wrong, some of you have very strong opinions on this. But because some knob with a camera ( yes, on Southampton payroll ) was caught spying on MBoro training they get put into a final where i would expect they are heavy favourites with the biggest prize of the football world on offer. They spied on us, but we didn't lose did we? So, I am still wrestling with it in my head but the prize that MBoro have won feels too big and the Southampton punishment feels too big. If anyone should have benefited, maybe it should have been Hull because they legitimately reached the final. |
There was a specific rule brought in after Bielsa's Leeds were caught doing the same thing. This is the first test of that domestically although there have been international examples with Canadian national teams expelled from competition.
The cup tie analogy is the thing here not the value of the play-off final, infringe the rules and forfeit a match which is effectively what has happened. Yes, the stakes are higher but anything otherwise lets Southampton off too lightly. |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:36 - May 20 with 594 views | Guthrum |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:26 - May 20 by Lion |
1) I was bored
2) All the 'penalty Ipswich' and salty crap Middlesborough were writing about us seems to have been forgotten about by some of you who have commented, very forgiving of you all. It seems some of you are much more willing to forgive other clubs fans than your own for expressing an opinion. If I or other TOWN fans put up a 'stupid comment' maybe remember that the person may be stupid, but they are a stupid Town fan so give them a bit of slack! ;0)
3) I don't actually think M'boro should replay Milwall, that was a bit tongue in cheek but I also don't know if the punishment is a bit too much. Put yourself in the place of their fans if it was Ipswich who had been thrown out. At the end of the day M'boro lost, i think it would have been better if they had to pay M'Boro 10 million quid or so. An amount that would give M'Boro a small advantage over the other ( non premiership parachute ) championship clubs.
4) Maybe I am wrong, some of you have very strong opinions on this. But because some knob with a camera ( yes, on Southampton payroll ) was caught spying on MBoro training they get put into a final where i would expect they are heavy favourites with the biggest prize of the football world on offer. They spied on us, but we didn't lose did we? So, I am still wrestling with it in my head but the prize that MBoro have won feels too big and the Southampton punishment feels too big. If anyone should have benefited, maybe it should have been Hull because they legitimately reached the final. |
The 'prize' Boro have 'won' and the penalty to Southampton are not real. Either team could be/could have been beaten by Hull on Saturday (or whenever it's played) and end up with nothing gained or lost in the end. There is a dubious assumption that the Saints were inevitably going to win.
The points deduction - which is the bit which might be reduced or wiped out on appeal - are the only substantive penalties as things stand.
Of course we'd be furious if it was Town in the situation. But, like many Soton forum posters, probably at least as much at the club administration as the EFL or anyone else. | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:36 - May 20 with 591 views | Ralphinho |
Has been saying to Mrs Ralph this morning that I thought I'd be more aggrieved if I was a Wrexham fan than anything... A strong case to suggest the Sinners wouldn't have reached the POs without cheating since the new management came in.
Would be one hell of a twist in the tale and a great ending to the series (which I do enjoy).
That being said, Wrexham getting promoted again isn't palatable for any true football fans and I'd want to see them get beaten in the semi final by Boro. |  |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:51 - May 20 with 546 views | Lion |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:33 - May 20 by Steve_M |
There was a specific rule brought in after Bielsa's Leeds were caught doing the same thing. This is the first test of that domestically although there have been international examples with Canadian national teams expelled from competition.
The cup tie analogy is the thing here not the value of the play-off final, infringe the rules and forfeit a match which is effectively what has happened. Yes, the stakes are higher but anything otherwise lets Southampton off too lightly. |
Ok Steve, fair comment, respectively written. It will certainly, you would imagine, deter teams from ever thinking of trying 'spy gate' again you would think and i do admire the football league for their stance, its pretty ballsy and i certainly didn't think Southampton would get thrown out - if it sticks ( legal challenges etc )
But if you were a betting man, would you bet that actually Southampton have been caught spying against us, 'Boro and, ahem, Oxford so admitted it, but have actually spied on every club that they have played since the current management structure has been in place.
And if they have, would that make you consider the prize for Middlesborough too great?
To be clear, i'm not sure if the punishment for Southampton is too much or not, but it does feel to me that 'Boro's gain is too much. Maybe there is no other way..... | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:58 - May 20 with 518 views | Herbivore |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:51 - May 20 by Lion |
Ok Steve, fair comment, respectively written. It will certainly, you would imagine, deter teams from ever thinking of trying 'spy gate' again you would think and i do admire the football league for their stance, its pretty ballsy and i certainly didn't think Southampton would get thrown out - if it sticks ( legal challenges etc )
But if you were a betting man, would you bet that actually Southampton have been caught spying against us, 'Boro and, ahem, Oxford so admitted it, but have actually spied on every club that they have played since the current management structure has been in place.
And if they have, would that make you consider the prize for Middlesborough too great?
To be clear, i'm not sure if the punishment for Southampton is too much or not, but it does feel to me that 'Boro's gain is too much. Maybe there is no other way..... |
I think that's the wrong way of looking at it. Boro aren't being rewarded, they are being appropriately reinstated because their opponent cheated and got disqualified as a result. | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:23 - May 20 with 477 views | cressi |
So let's be honest what do you do when it came to light the 1st leg had been played . Hardly Boros fault and if it was us we would want the opposition kicked out.
The funny thing in their statement was almost like if they play they are cock sure they go up after all this let's hope Hull get promoted for footballs integrity. | | | |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:24 - May 20 with 473 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
No because Millwall lost and if they beat Boro and then Hull in the final that would open an entire different can of worms. Boro have no business being there without earning it which they haven’t, they fluffed their lines at home first leg (again!) when Southampton were rocked by the scandal then ran out of gas second. But the EFL need their showcase game of course. [Post edited 20 May 14:26]
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:25 - May 20 with 467 views | Lion |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:23 - May 20 by cressi |
So let's be honest what do you do when it came to light the 1st leg had been played . Hardly Boros fault and if it was us we would want the opposition kicked out.
The funny thing in their statement was almost like if they play they are cock sure they go up after all this let's hope Hull get promoted for footballs integrity. |
Yes Cressi, if Hull could win maybe there could be no complaints all round | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:32 - May 20 with 437 views | Ryorry |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:36 - May 20 by Guthrum |
The 'prize' Boro have 'won' and the penalty to Southampton are not real. Either team could be/could have been beaten by Hull on Saturday (or whenever it's played) and end up with nothing gained or lost in the end. There is a dubious assumption that the Saints were inevitably going to win.
The points deduction - which is the bit which might be reduced or wiped out on appeal - are the only substantive penalties as things stand.
Of course we'd be furious if it was Town in the situation. But, like many Soton forum posters, probably at least as much at the club administration as the EFL or anyone else. |
From what I've seen of their forum, most Soton fans are being very fair & honest about what's happened, which is more than can be said for their Board & some of their management ...
Really do feel sorry for them now, not nice to have your club dragged through the mud & all over even mainstream news for all the wrong reasons, not to mention the club being left in disarray. | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:42 - May 20 with 408 views | NedPlimpton |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 13:26 - May 20 by Lion |
1) I was bored
2) All the 'penalty Ipswich' and salty crap Middlesborough were writing about us seems to have been forgotten about by some of you who have commented, very forgiving of you all. It seems some of you are much more willing to forgive other clubs fans than your own for expressing an opinion. If I or other TOWN fans put up a 'stupid comment' maybe remember that the person may be stupid, but they are a stupid Town fan so give them a bit of slack! ;0)
3) I don't actually think M'boro should replay Milwall, that was a bit tongue in cheek but I also don't know if the punishment is a bit too much. Put yourself in the place of their fans if it was Ipswich who had been thrown out. At the end of the day M'boro lost, i think it would have been better if they had to pay M'Boro 10 million quid or so. An amount that would give M'Boro a small advantage over the other ( non premiership parachute ) championship clubs.
4) Maybe I am wrong, some of you have very strong opinions on this. But because some knob with a camera ( yes, on Southampton payroll ) was caught spying on MBoro training they get put into a final where i would expect they are heavy favourites with the biggest prize of the football world on offer. They spied on us, but we didn't lose did we? So, I am still wrestling with it in my head but the prize that MBoro have won feels too big and the Southampton punishment feels too big. If anyone should have benefited, maybe it should have been Hull because they legitimately reached the final. |
To your second point. It sounds like you're just bitter towards Boro rather than thinking objectively about this | | | |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:48 - May 20 with 394 views | Herbivore |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:24 - May 20 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
No because Millwall lost and if they beat Boro and then Hull in the final that would open an entire different can of worms. Boro have no business being there without earning it which they haven’t, they fluffed their lines at home first leg (again!) when Southampton were rocked by the scandal then ran out of gas second. But the EFL need their showcase game of course. [Post edited 20 May 14:26]
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Saints got disqualified for cheating against Boro, I'm not sure how that means Boro have no business taking their place in the competition. If someone wins the 100m at the Olympics and then gets done for doping, nobody claims the person who finished second shouldn't be awarded the gold. | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:57 - May 20 with 363 views | Lion |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:42 - May 20 by NedPlimpton |
To your second point. It sounds like you're just bitter towards Boro rather than thinking objectively about this |
Not really, honestly! I think it may have been better to promote Hull, which also seems weird as until circa 5 mins to go on the last game of the season they weren't even in the play offs!
I'm not sure if Southampton's punishment is too much, but i think i am sure that Boro's gain is too much. Hey ho, i hope Hull win and who knows, maybe they would have beaten Southampton too! | |
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| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:59 - May 20 with 362 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Middlesborough get a second chance at playing for a '300 million ' prize on 14:48 - May 20 by Herbivore |
Saints got disqualified for cheating against Boro, I'm not sure how that means Boro have no business taking their place in the competition. If someone wins the 100m at the Olympics and then gets done for doping, nobody claims the person who finished second shouldn't be awarded the gold. |
What has happened is the same outcome that usually happens in knock-out competitions. Where a team has fielded an ineligible player in a cup match, the other team is generally given the win (e.g. Swindon being kicked out of the EFL Trophy earlier this season and Luton (who they beat) reinstated). |  | | |
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