| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve 13:43 - Jul 26 with 2087 views | GlasgowBlue |
Its 48% top rate of income tax (NICs on top) results in £22m LESS in tax revenues.
Andy Burnham please take note. |  |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 13:59 - Jul 26 with 1978 views | J2BLUE |
Probably time to start banging on about another referendum to get a load more concessions and funding. |  | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 14:08 - Jul 26 with 1928 views | Swansea_Blue |
It seems daft doing this without tightening up the other loopholes that rich people can exploit to swap out income for other means of creating personal wealth (dividend rules, salary sacrifice and pension options, etc). It’s like the £100-125k income band here that get hammered. People just adjust their income to hit the £100k threshold and take the rest in benefits. |  |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 19:46 - Jul 26 with 1496 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 14:08 - Jul 26 by Swansea_Blue |
It seems daft doing this without tightening up the other loopholes that rich people can exploit to swap out income for other means of creating personal wealth (dividend rules, salary sacrifice and pension options, etc). It’s like the £100-125k income band here that get hammered. People just adjust their income to hit the £100k threshold and take the rest in benefits. |
Quite so Swansea and as someone just said, "Andy Burnham please take note". |  |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 21:37 - Jul 26 with 1339 views | ZapatasMoustache |
The 'Laffer Curve' is utter b*ll*cks though. Even most economists, by far the most ideological and un-empirical social scientists, agree. This is a (relatively) amusing debunking of the whole nonsense. https://www.brookings.edu/wp-c |  | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 21:44 - Jul 26 with 1304 views | balcombeblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 21:37 - Jul 26 by ZapatasMoustache |
The 'Laffer Curve' is utter b*ll*cks though. Even most economists, by far the most ideological and un-empirical social scientists, agree. This is a (relatively) amusing debunking of the whole nonsense. https://www.brookings.edu/wp-c |
There is a huge amount of empirical evidence of the existence of the Laffer Curve. There is significant behavioural changes at higher tax rates and it raises little revenue. Even if it did raise significant revenue (it won't), then why should even more money be given to government to waste?
government spending has tipped well past the balance of affordability, thet is where the restructuring is needed. |  | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 21:47 - Jul 26 with 1281 views | Bigalhunter |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 14:08 - Jul 26 by Swansea_Blue |
It seems daft doing this without tightening up the other loopholes that rich people can exploit to swap out income for other means of creating personal wealth (dividend rules, salary sacrifice and pension options, etc). It’s like the £100-125k income band here that get hammered. People just adjust their income to hit the £100k threshold and take the rest in benefits. |
Equally daft that people earning around £125,000 are the ones considered to be the high earners that should be targeted every time this raises its head as a potential solution. |  |
| It used to great on here when people let me say whatever I wanted and giggled along - (Rough translation of post from un-named TWTD contributor, 2026) | | Poll: | September 2025. Which one? |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 22:32 - Jul 26 with 1165 views | balcombeblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 21:47 - Jul 26 by Bigalhunter |
Equally daft that people earning around £125,000 are the ones considered to be the high earners that should be targeted every time this raises its head as a potential solution. |
Having already lost their personal allowance….. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 22:45 - Jul 26 with 1109 views | JammyDodgerrr |
When you read the article, it suggests many times their analysis is likely incorrect and we are basically talking about a rounding error. Plus Neidle is not always the most reliable.
Nothing to see here. |  |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 23:25 - Jul 26 with 1014 views | reusersfreekicks |
LET THE RICH GET RICHER |  | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 23:31 - Jul 26 with 992 views | ZapatasMoustache |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 21:44 - Jul 26 by balcombeblue |
There is a huge amount of empirical evidence of the existence of the Laffer Curve. There is significant behavioural changes at higher tax rates and it raises little revenue. Even if it did raise significant revenue (it won't), then why should even more money be given to government to waste?
government spending has tipped well past the balance of affordability, thet is where the restructuring is needed. |
This isn't true in the slightest. It's widely regarded as bunkum.
“Five Critiques of Arthur Laffer’s Supply-Side Model Show Tax Cuts as Junk Economics” from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy
https://itep.org/debunkinglaff
Why the Laffer Curve is garbage by Josh Elliott in the CT Mirror
https://ctmirror.org/2018/01/1 - choice quote: "There has never been a conclusive study that demonstrates a connection between lowered tax rates on the wealthy and GDP growth or increased tax receipts"
Resist the Allure of Laffer Curve Logic by Adam N. Michel from the CATO Institute of all places, a libertarian lobby group! https://www.cato.org/blog/resi | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 07:06 - Jul 27 with 769 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 23:25 - Jul 26 by reusersfreekicks |
LET THE RICH GET RICHER |
And therein lies the problem. I see tax as an efficient means of paying for public services. You see tax as a way to punish the rich.
You would rather set a higher rate even if it collects less revenue. How many schools ‘n hospitals in Scotland could have done with that £22 million in lost revenue because the SNP wanted to punish higher earners? | |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 07:11 - Jul 27 with 736 views | balcombeblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 23:31 - Jul 26 by ZapatasMoustache |
This isn't true in the slightest. It's widely regarded as bunkum.
“Five Critiques of Arthur Laffer’s Supply-Side Model Show Tax Cuts as Junk Economics” from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy
https://itep.org/debunkinglaff
Why the Laffer Curve is garbage by Josh Elliott in the CT Mirror
https://ctmirror.org/2018/01/1 - choice quote: "There has never been a conclusive study that demonstrates a connection between lowered tax rates on the wealthy and GDP growth or increased tax receipts"
Resist the Allure of Laffer Curve Logic by Adam N. Michel from the CATO Institute of all places, a libertarian lobby group! https://www.cato.org/blog/resi |
We can all play the game of posting supportive links, whether they be to opinion pieces or academic papers. Empirically there is recent evidence that changing the rates raises little additional revenue and may even decrease it.
Fundamentally marginally increasing taxes makes no difference whatsoever to our structural problems of massively overspending our income. Why people think this can continue on and on I just don’t know. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 08:29 - Jul 27 with 599 views | baxterbasics |
They’d rather the poor be poorer if needs be in the name of equality and punishing ‘the rich’
Which really just means let’s sting upper middle PAYE earners. Actual rich people know how to avoid this. |  |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 09:39 - Jul 27 with 495 views | OldFart71 |
I don't really know what you do about the constant selling off of Companies vital to many things in Britain to foreign countries.
Whilst this may sound a strange thing to say, our economy doesn't run by government held assets and whilst this current one seems intent, apart from the odd olive branch to make life harder for our industries they don't seem to be on the same wave length as our new PM who advocates the need to re-industrialise Britain.
Despite what Reeves may say, or the previous government came to that Britain has been in decline for many years now .And whilst the view of many seems to be that there's no harm in allowing thousands to land on our shore and thousands of young people out of work and a ballooning cost of paying benefits to many who could work it will only lead to a Britain which is already in decline to decline even further without real vision from whatever government is in power. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 09:50 - Jul 27 with 454 views | ZapatasMoustache |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 07:11 - Jul 27 by balcombeblue |
We can all play the game of posting supportive links, whether they be to opinion pieces or academic papers. Empirically there is recent evidence that changing the rates raises little additional revenue and may even decrease it.
Fundamentally marginally increasing taxes makes no difference whatsoever to our structural problems of massively overspending our income. Why people think this can continue on and on I just don’t know. |
I mean, you could have posted a supportive link or two!? You keep saying there's empirical evidence after all.
In any case I take your point on marginal changes. I'd be in favour of huge changes myself. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:07 - Jul 27 with 431 views | balcombeblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 09:50 - Jul 27 by ZapatasMoustache |
I mean, you could have posted a supportive link or two!? You keep saying there's empirical evidence after all.
In any case I take your point on marginal changes. I'd be in favour of huge changes myself. |
Fair comment. Here's a good paper from the ECB.
I accept that the Laffer curves precise tipping point, or it's gradient close to that tipping point is very difficult to precisely establish. What I challenge is the idea that increasing taxes yet further, particularly on PAYE earners is actually moral. At what point does the social contract and libertarianism balance?
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/ | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:26 - Jul 27 with 365 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 07:11 - Jul 27 by balcombeblue |
We can all play the game of posting supportive links, whether they be to opinion pieces or academic papers. Empirically there is recent evidence that changing the rates raises little additional revenue and may even decrease it.
Fundamentally marginally increasing taxes makes no difference whatsoever to our structural problems of massively overspending our income. Why people think this can continue on and on I just don’t know. |
I don’t see why government debt can’t continue. We’d have to go back to the feudal systems of the 1600s and earlier before a central bank to the last time we only spent against income.
Marginally changing tax rates at the bottom can raise quite a lot of extra revenue. We’re looking at something like £30BN per year being raised by fiscal drag of freezing the tax thresholds. That would be very significant if the government used it to justify allocating an extra £20-30BN on social care.
I agree that it probably won’t do much at the top end where people have more options on how to take their renumeration. | |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:36 - Jul 27 with 333 views | nrb1985 |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:26 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
I don’t see why government debt can’t continue. We’d have to go back to the feudal systems of the 1600s and earlier before a central bank to the last time we only spent against income.
Marginally changing tax rates at the bottom can raise quite a lot of extra revenue. We’re looking at something like £30BN per year being raised by fiscal drag of freezing the tax thresholds. That would be very significant if the government used it to justify allocating an extra £20-30BN on social care.
I agree that it probably won’t do much at the top end where people have more options on how to take their renumeration. |
"I don’t see why government debt can’t continue"
While you are correct, you don't want to end up like Japan where you have 200% debt to GDP ratio and your currency keeps devaluing even while interest rates are going up. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:58 - Jul 27 with 266 views | balcombeblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:26 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
I don’t see why government debt can’t continue. We’d have to go back to the feudal systems of the 1600s and earlier before a central bank to the last time we only spent against income.
Marginally changing tax rates at the bottom can raise quite a lot of extra revenue. We’re looking at something like £30BN per year being raised by fiscal drag of freezing the tax thresholds. That would be very significant if the government used it to justify allocating an extra £20-30BN on social care.
I agree that it probably won’t do much at the top end where people have more options on how to take their renumeration. |
Have a lot of time for many of your posts but can't agree with that. Government borrowing has a cost, that cost is likely to continue to get harder to fund. Governments need to borrow from institutions or print money, both have consequences which we have seen since the New Labour disaster and beyond.
Social change has done a lot to increase the burden on social care, like it has with welfare. But that's a tough conversation to have. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 11:08 - Jul 27 with 238 views | lowhouseblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 10:26 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
I don’t see why government debt can’t continue. We’d have to go back to the feudal systems of the 1600s and earlier before a central bank to the last time we only spent against income.
Marginally changing tax rates at the bottom can raise quite a lot of extra revenue. We’re looking at something like £30BN per year being raised by fiscal drag of freezing the tax thresholds. That would be very significant if the government used it to justify allocating an extra £20-30BN on social care.
I agree that it probably won’t do much at the top end where people have more options on how to take their renumeration. |
of course debt is going to continue - we're not about to pay it off. the issue is when does the cost of servicing that debt become unsustainable. a large proportion of the tax we raise goes to service the debt accumulated in the past. if the level of debt continues to increase, the cost of servicing that debt will continue to rise (at some point, at the discretion of the bond market, exponentially), and we'll need to raise more and more tax just to keep doing what we are currently doing. [Post edited 27 Jul 11:08]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 11:19 - Jul 27 with 181 views | nrb1985 |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 11:08 - Jul 27 by lowhouseblue |
of course debt is going to continue - we're not about to pay it off. the issue is when does the cost of servicing that debt become unsustainable. a large proportion of the tax we raise goes to service the debt accumulated in the past. if the level of debt continues to increase, the cost of servicing that debt will continue to rise (at some point, at the discretion of the bond market, exponentially), and we'll need to raise more and more tax just to keep doing what we are currently doing. [Post edited 27 Jul 11:08]
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If we stopped changing governments every week and voting for things like Brexit and Reform councils etc then you might see the cost of capital come down...
Just a theory. | | | |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 11:26 - Jul 27 with 138 views | lowhouseblue |
| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 11:19 - Jul 27 by nrb1985 |
If we stopped changing governments every week and voting for things like Brexit and Reform councils etc then you might see the cost of capital come down...
Just a theory. |
indeed. but it doesn't make it any less of a constraint. if my aunt was my uncle etc. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Scotland discovers the Laffer Curve on 11:41 - Jul 27 with 96 views | leitrimblue |
Surely the big question is why? |  | | |
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