| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta 09:58 - Jul 31 with 12061 views | ElderGrizzly |
Astonishing, when the initial media report was 'hundreds'
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
And with Italy calling for the suspension Schengen Area with Spain too |  | | |  |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:13 - Jul 31 with 909 views | Radlett_blue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Why would the EU allow us back with GBP, a rebate and a veto?
Other countries don't get those luxuries, that is why it was such a monumental folly to leave.
Immigration skyrocketed after leaving the EU.
June polling data showed 58% support for re-joining the EU with 11% undecided. That seems to be increasing as demographics change. For instance, 62% of Gen Z and young Brits want a vote to rejoin after the next GE. 70% of voters too young to have voted in the referendum would vote to rejoin the EU.
SB |
It seems that many people are equally as naive about rejoining the EU as the Brexiteers were about leaving it. That's why referenda are usually a spectacularly bad idea. |  |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:16 - Jul 31 with 896 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:13 - Jul 31 by Radlett_blue |
It seems that many people are equally as naive about rejoining the EU as the Brexiteers were about leaving it. That's why referenda are usually a spectacularly bad idea. |
Care to elaborate on this naivety?
I do agree that referenda are often a bad idea.
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 11:16]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:20 - Jul 31 with 865 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Why would the EU allow us back with GBP, a rebate and a veto?
Other countries don't get those luxuries, that is why it was such a monumental folly to leave.
Immigration skyrocketed after leaving the EU.
June polling data showed 58% support for re-joining the EU with 11% undecided. That seems to be increasing as demographics change. For instance, 62% of Gen Z and young Brits want a vote to rejoin after the next GE. 70% of voters too young to have voted in the referendum would vote to rejoin the EU.
SB |
Why was it allowed ever? Aside from being an early joiner the UK was one of the blocs wealthiest and most politically influential members, and it's not unthinkable that those terms would be extended once again. Ultimately the EU is stronger with the UK, and like any negotiation the terms need to work for all parties. The EU has never been uniform either, lots of member states have negotiated special provisions over its existence, that isn't unique to UK. |  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:21 - Jul 31 with 866 views | grow_our_own |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Not surprised about Italy at all. It's fine for Spain to say what they want to do but they are effectively giving people citizenship of Europe.
If we go back any time soon in any meaningful way I doubt we sign up to free movement. |
"I doubt we sign up to free movement" - we never did because free movement has never existed. Only Free Movement Of Workers has ever existed. You can move if you can support yourself or have a job. FoM is a Brexist fallacy, just like the lie on the side of the bus.
Securing the perimeter has largely been achieved. Irregular migration is 90% below the 2015 peak, 53% below 2023. Fences have gone up, and monitoring improved. But you won't hear about that in the Daily Mail and GBeebies. [Post edited 31 Jul 11:21]
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:23 - Jul 31 with 836 views | lowhouseblue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:21 - Jul 31 by grow_our_own |
"I doubt we sign up to free movement" - we never did because free movement has never existed. Only Free Movement Of Workers has ever existed. You can move if you can support yourself or have a job. FoM is a Brexist fallacy, just like the lie on the side of the bus.
Securing the perimeter has largely been achieved. Irregular migration is 90% below the 2015 peak, 53% below 2023. Fences have gone up, and monitoring improved. But you won't hear about that in the Daily Mail and GBeebies. [Post edited 31 Jul 11:21]
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free movement includes the right to look for work - so it is a wide ranging right. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:25 - Jul 31 with 832 views | J2BLUE |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:20 - Jul 31 by _CliveBaker_ |
Why was it allowed ever? Aside from being an early joiner the UK was one of the blocs wealthiest and most politically influential members, and it's not unthinkable that those terms would be extended once again. Ultimately the EU is stronger with the UK, and like any negotiation the terms need to work for all parties. The EU has never been uniform either, lots of member states have negotiated special provisions over its existence, that isn't unique to UK. |
Agree. If we went back and said we will rejoin but we want our old deal I really don't think they are going to say no.
One of the biggest economies in the world. Another nuclear power to join the French. A bridge between Europe and the US.
They might say no but it would be an odd thing to do. |  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:25 - Jul 31 with 829 views | Radlett_blue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:16 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Care to elaborate on this naivety?
I do agree that referenda are often a bad idea.
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 11:16]
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The notion that UK will be allowed to rejoin the EU on reasonable terms is patently laughable. | |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:31 - Jul 31 with 793 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:25 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Agree. If we went back and said we will rejoin but we want our old deal I really don't think they are going to say no.
One of the biggest economies in the world. Another nuclear power to join the French. A bridge between Europe and the US.
They might say no but it would be an odd thing to do. |
That's just the nature of any relationship and negotiation. Not all member states or prospective member states are born equal. Its not about entitlement, its about understanding what each party could bring to each other. That's life. | | | |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:32 - Jul 31 with 792 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:25 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Agree. If we went back and said we will rejoin but we want our old deal I really don't think they are going to say no.
One of the biggest economies in the world. Another nuclear power to join the French. A bridge between Europe and the US.
They might say no but it would be an odd thing to do. |
But it opens up a whole can of worms for them, for instance, why wouldn't the French immediately leave and then rejoin on much better terms than they have now? I suspect everyone would like a veto and a rebate if possible.
Perhaps they would go for it and in that case it would be excellent but I think you're looking at it from a very UK-centric view.
Are we a bridge between the US and Europe? The US isn't listening to us or Europe at the moment.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:32 - Jul 31 with 794 views | BarcaBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:36 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Because immigration is one of the biggest issues for the country and if an EU country like Germany under Merkel or Spain right now decide to throw the doors open they are effectively granting European membership.
I am not sure the country will accept it. |
In what way are Spain throwing the doors open? Are you referring to what just happened in Ceuta where many lost their lives trying to swim around the frontier or to the amnesty for people from other countries already living in Spain? |  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:33 - Jul 31 with 792 views | Guthrum |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:05 - Jul 31 by lowhouseblue |
"However, it has been whipped up into a storm by those more concerned with votes than truth"
i don't for a second doubt that's true.
but you also need to put it in the context of the boris wave. an utterly unprecedented level of net immigration at a time when all political parties had promised to reduce it. after a referendum in which reducing immigration was a prime determinant of how people voted. it was a policy with no democratic mandate - in fact it ran directly against all measures of public opinion.
so you can't see the issue as politicised without recognising that context. |
Unprecedented, but also, seemingly, a one-off, given that numbers have dropped significantly since. To what extent was that an adjustment to the new post-Brexit circumstances? How much a function of a government more concerned with blather and daft schemes (Rwanda) than effective policy? |  |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:38 - Jul 31 with 771 views | J2BLUE |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:32 - Jul 31 by BarcaBlue |
In what way are Spain throwing the doors open? Are you referring to what just happened in Ceuta where many lost their lives trying to swim around the frontier or to the amnesty for people from other countries already living in Spain? |
The amnesty.
And yes, I know it's not citizenship but they said it was a path to citizenship. The point stands that any EU country can decide to effectively grant citizenship to the entire EU. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:40 - Jul 31 with 761 views | lowhouseblue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:33 - Jul 31 by Guthrum |
Unprecedented, but also, seemingly, a one-off, given that numbers have dropped significantly since. To what extent was that an adjustment to the new post-Brexit circumstances? How much a function of a government more concerned with blather and daft schemes (Rwanda) than effective policy? |
one off because it became the number one political issue for 2/3rds of the electorate. it's also only one-off because of mahmood's changes to ilr. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:44 - Jul 31 with 738 views | giant_stow |
Something feels off about this - why did all those people suddenly turn up yesterday? I know there was that Spanish high court ruling, but it feels like people are being manipulated for some purpose by higher powers to me. |  |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:44 - Jul 31 with 731 views | BarcaBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:38 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
The amnesty.
And yes, I know it's not citizenship but they said it was a path to citizenship. The point stands that any EU country can decide to effectively grant citizenship to the entire EU. |
No, it's not citizenship. It's a one year renewable residence permit for those who can prove they have been present in Spain for the previous 6 months or more and have no criminal record. It was more an amnesty and applications closed in June.
It's nothing like opening the doors to immigrants or has any meaningful knock on effects for the rest of Europe. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:48 - Jul 31 with 711 views | bartyg |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:44 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
Something feels off about this - why did all those people suddenly turn up yesterday? I know there was that Spanish high court ruling, but it feels like people are being manipulated for some purpose by higher powers to me. |
A bit David Icke over here. |  |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:56 - Jul 31 with 672 views | BarcaBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:44 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
Something feels off about this - why did all those people suddenly turn up yesterday? I know there was that Spanish high court ruling, but it feels like people are being manipulated for some purpose by higher powers to me. |
This isn't the first time this has happened, the last one was after Morocco getting miffed at an opposition leader being treated at a Spanish hospital. Not clear yet what has sparked this episode but reports here are the vast majority who entered are unaccompanied minors. Wait and see I guess but maybe no coincidence recent close ties between Morocco and the US. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:00 - Jul 31 with 652 views | Zx1988 |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 by Billywitch |
Those people who live in and love their town of Cueta are the ones where my thoughts sit. Invaded by thousands of criminals smashing their home town to pieces.
Just awful scenes
Hopefully the Police/military have/are mobilising and take action |
Top marks for use of fascist nomenclature there. | |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:07 - Jul 31 with 614 views | Bent_double |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:56 - Jul 31 by BarcaBlue |
This isn't the first time this has happened, the last one was after Morocco getting miffed at an opposition leader being treated at a Spanish hospital. Not clear yet what has sparked this episode but reports here are the vast majority who entered are unaccompanied minors. Wait and see I guess but maybe no coincidence recent close ties between Morocco and the US. |
Not to mention the US dislike of the Spanish PM and the very anti-Spanish rhetoric coming from the WH.
No doubt people like Vance & Musk will be using this as more evidence of the state of Europe, and why they need more rightwing parties in control. |  |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:08 - Jul 31 with 607 views | grow_our_own |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:23 - Jul 31 by lowhouseblue |
free movement includes the right to look for work - so it is a wide ranging right. |
Only for three months, then you either must go home or face destitution. Brexists make it sound as if Free Movement of Workers meant right to live the life of riley on benefits. You can claim JSA for only three months, no rights to social housing, housing benefit, nor universal credit, and your right to use the NHS was time-limited too. This is the system that was in place when we were last in the EU. Before we flushed 4% of the economy, or £125bn down the toilet every year (according to the ONS). That's the average income of three million British people binned. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:08 - Jul 31 with 608 views | Zx1988 |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:48 - Jul 31 by bartyg |
A bit David Icke over here. |
I'm not convinced it's all *that* tin-foil-hatty.
I know nothing of the situation in Northern Morocco, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are large camps of people, similar to in the Pas de Calais area, who are ready to move at the drop of a hat.
On the other side, I'm sure Führage and the rest of Europe's far-right would love to have the ability (assuming that they don't already) to help manufacture this sort of situation. I imagine someone, somewhere in the relevant parties across Europe would have known about this in advance, and had the opportunity to spread the word in the necessary places. The footage from yesterday is an utter wet dream for them. | |
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| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:16 - Jul 31 with 568 views | squiz |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:08 - Jul 31 by Zx1988 |
I'm not convinced it's all *that* tin-foil-hatty.
I know nothing of the situation in Northern Morocco, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are large camps of people, similar to in the Pas de Calais area, who are ready to move at the drop of a hat.
On the other side, I'm sure Führage and the rest of Europe's far-right would love to have the ability (assuming that they don't already) to help manufacture this sort of situation. I imagine someone, somewhere in the relevant parties across Europe would have known about this in advance, and had the opportunity to spread the word in the necessary places. The footage from yesterday is an utter wet dream for them. |
yeah I've seen it reported that Russia are supporting smuggling gangs. I'm not sure it's that far fetched to imagine it's happening here.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/ |  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:16 - Jul 31 with 569 views | BarcaBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 12:07 - Jul 31 by Bent_double |
Not to mention the US dislike of the Spanish PM and the very anti-Spanish rhetoric coming from the WH.
No doubt people like Vance & Musk will be using this as more evidence of the state of Europe, and why they need more rightwing parties in control. |
Yep, things like this don't happen by chance. In the footage shown here there are lots of young people in wetsuits. There was no spontaneity about it. | | | |
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, as rejoining strengthens the block. 