| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:12 - Aug 4 with 1323 views | balcombeblue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:01 - Aug 4 by itfcjoe |
Ok - but there are plenty of people in the public eye who have beaten their wife and basically seen as national treasures like Gazza, or Phil Tufnell just from the world of sport.
And many more people who have had affairs, who have left partners, we won't know the reasons for them.
I think there is a massive difference between people being able to condem certain actions, as anyone would, and just write someone off as someone who should never be in decent society or listened to ever again
If everytime the Beatles came up, all that was spoken about was John Lennon's treatment of Cynthia then it would miss a lot out - that's not to say things should be overlooked or ignored but I personally can't abide the piousness of it all - let he is without sin etc |
Totally, pick another public figure such as Dianne Abbott. She’s done a huge amount of progressive good over the years, but also wrote an anti-Semitic article for the Observer. The response was similarly divided. I still support that she wrote it. Is she now in line for similar treatment? |  | |  |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:15 - Aug 4 with 1289 views | DJR |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 13:56 - Aug 4 by lowhouseblue |
and nobody mention harriet harman and the nccl. |
Just wait till she dies.  |  | | |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:17 - Aug 4 with 1251 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 12:45 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
Imagine a new word for what i have defined as cancelled was created. Would you still disagree, or are you only disputing the semantics of the word? |
Weird question. If you'd used a word that means 'not liked very much' I'd agree with you. But you didn't, you used the word, "Cancelled". I don't know what you want me to say, I don't see any evidence that he was "Cancelled". He resigned, and worked again for the BBC on several occassions.
"Cancelled" by, I'd think, most normal people's definition would mean being prevented from airing their views and/or being unemployable because of those views, neither of which was true. |  |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:28 - Aug 4 with 1192 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 13:27 - Aug 4 by itfcjoe |
But this is the point, you are deciding who are "decent people" and who aren't, because their views align with what is the norm on here |
It's got nothing to do with "on here".
I have a view on who are decent people whether they're on here or not, and maybe I'm going mad but I think decent people would be those who don't agree with promoting paedophilia or gunning down migrants.
There are plenty of grey areas of course, but I think I'm on firm ground with those two opinions. And I feel well within my rights to challenge them. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:29 - Aug 4 with 1202 views | Trequartista |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:17 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Weird question. If you'd used a word that means 'not liked very much' I'd agree with you. But you didn't, you used the word, "Cancelled". I don't know what you want me to say, I don't see any evidence that he was "Cancelled". He resigned, and worked again for the BBC on several occassions.
"Cancelled" by, I'd think, most normal people's definition would mean being prevented from airing their views and/or being unemployable because of those views, neither of which was true. |
I don't think you've understood that question at all, I'm trying to get away from the semantics of the word and you seem to have interpreted that as going headlong into more definitions of it.
I have this dreadful fear I've been suckered in again for about third time with you recently when I'm trying to debate in good faith but I'll try once more.
So if there was a different word from cancelled that captured my definition {losing work from establishments that have 'values', being a bad person rather than a person that has done some bad things} as opposed to the word cancelled which is your literal definition {no unemployment anywhere}, would you then agree with me on my new word (i.e. we only had disagreement on what cancelled meant) or would you disagree that there is any such thing that exists for what my new word describes.
I admit that is a bit long-winded on my part, and perhaps only totally comprehensible to me, but I have my fingers crossed for a good faith answer. |  |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:30 - Aug 4 with 1174 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:15 - Aug 4 by DJR |
Just wait till she dies. |
i doubt her involvement in that stuff, even with the benefit of 40 years of hindsight, will be used to wipe out every other aspect of her life. i guess she was involved because it fitted with her view of individual freedom at the time whereas he wrote what he wrote cos he made a living as a controversialist. i'm not sure who wins on the moral score sheet. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:34 - Aug 4 with 1128 views | itfcjoe |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:28 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's got nothing to do with "on here".
I have a view on who are decent people whether they're on here or not, and maybe I'm going mad but I think decent people would be those who don't agree with promoting paedophilia or gunning down migrants.
There are plenty of grey areas of course, but I think I'm on firm ground with those two opinions. And I feel well within my rights to challenge them. |
He wasn't promoting paedophilia, just because some people have read it and felt that is what he has done doesn't mean that is what he has actually done.
We've seen countless examples of things like this - i.e. when Corbyn did things that people said were antisemitic - there is nuance in positions and just because someone has said his column promoted paedophilia it doesn't make it an undisputable fact |  |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:40 - Aug 4 with 1067 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:01 - Aug 4 by itfcjoe |
Ok - but there are plenty of people in the public eye who have beaten their wife and basically seen as national treasures like Gazza, or Phil Tufnell just from the world of sport.
And many more people who have had affairs, who have left partners, we won't know the reasons for them.
I think there is a massive difference between people being able to condem certain actions, as anyone would, and just write someone off as someone who should never be in decent society or listened to ever again
If everytime the Beatles came up, all that was spoken about was John Lennon's treatment of Cynthia then it would miss a lot out - that's not to say things should be overlooked or ignored but I personally can't abide the piousness of it all - let he is without sin etc |
"who should never be in decent society or listened to ever again"
But who has this happened to?
People are just objecting to what Liddle wrote (and those defending him). He was never stopped from being in decent society or listened to ever again, in fact he made a good living out of it right up until his death.
To be honest I don't really understand what you're saying. Most in this thread are simply saying he had some views/wrote some articles that they and others found reprehensible. I'm not sure why there's much debate about it. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:44 - Aug 4 with 1049 views | itfcjoe |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:40 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"who should never be in decent society or listened to ever again"
But who has this happened to?
People are just objecting to what Liddle wrote (and those defending him). He was never stopped from being in decent society or listened to ever again, in fact he made a good living out of it right up until his death.
To be honest I don't really understand what you're saying. Most in this thread are simply saying he had some views/wrote some articles that they and others found reprehensible. I'm not sure why there's much debate about it. |
I didn't say he was, I said there is clearly people on here who think this should have happened to him | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:49 - Aug 4 with 1023 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:28 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's got nothing to do with "on here".
I have a view on who are decent people whether they're on here or not, and maybe I'm going mad but I think decent people would be those who don't agree with promoting paedophilia or gunning down migrants.
There are plenty of grey areas of course, but I think I'm on firm ground with those two opinions. And I feel well within my rights to challenge them. |
Borderline enabling paedophilia rather than promoting imo. He trivialised grooming and child exploitation rather than actively encouraging paedophilia. I’d argue that’s a semantic point though, as however you look at it he did not help the fight against child abuse. He was heavily criticised by the NSPCC and other charities, the Police’s Child Protection Division, etc. |  |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:59 - Aug 4 with 966 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:08 - Aug 4 by balcombeblue |
I did!!!! But it was some way up the thread.
I still can’t find anyone supporting the article on paedophiles? Just supporting the right to write it. Then I go on to make a wider point that I enjoyed reading his articles.
The condemnation he received for this article and its bringing to the publics’s attention I would hope had a benefit, even if we’ll never be able to tell. His crass use of an old fashioned thought experiment in philosophy I can’t agree with.
I should probably address the point above. I haven’t called Stokie out on anything other than the way he’s described me. I haven’t done the same to him and won’t. But if I feel condescended or bullied (may be a little strong) then why shouldn’t I point that out? |
"I haven’t called Stokie out on anything other than the way he’s described me."
Simply not true. It's all there in black and white.
You said "You don’t say what you think?" in order to belittle him, because what he actually said was "I don't JUST say what I think". That one word changes the meaning entirely.
You then called him "self righteous" and added "But then again, given you don’t say what you think, then what am I to make of it?" | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:59 - Aug 4 with 976 views | Ryorry |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:34 - Aug 4 by itfcjoe |
He wasn't promoting paedophilia, just because some people have read it and felt that is what he has done doesn't mean that is what he has actually done.
We've seen countless examples of things like this - i.e. when Corbyn did things that people said were antisemitic - there is nuance in positions and just because someone has said his column promoted paedophilia it doesn't make it an undisputable fact |
I used the word "enabling" - not "promoting" as you have. And he did do the former, even if unwittingly - how can you read what Jenni Murray said & not understand that? Absolutely baffling.
Paedophiles are not nuanced in what they seek out online.
Huge difference between them & politicians who are basically decent but make mistakes. People could be and were nuanced about Corbyn - I wrote on here that I thought he was an ace constituency MP but a very poor leader, eg. [Post edited 4 Aug 15:03]
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:08 - Aug 4 with 932 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:29 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
I don't think you've understood that question at all, I'm trying to get away from the semantics of the word and you seem to have interpreted that as going headlong into more definitions of it.
I have this dreadful fear I've been suckered in again for about third time with you recently when I'm trying to debate in good faith but I'll try once more.
So if there was a different word from cancelled that captured my definition {losing work from establishments that have 'values', being a bad person rather than a person that has done some bad things} as opposed to the word cancelled which is your literal definition {no unemployment anywhere}, would you then agree with me on my new word (i.e. we only had disagreement on what cancelled meant) or would you disagree that there is any such thing that exists for what my new word describes.
I admit that is a bit long-winded on my part, and perhaps only totally comprehensible to me, but I have my fingers crossed for a good faith answer. |
I have answered you in good faith. You used the word cancelled and I responded to that.
Has he "lost work from establishments that have 'values'"? Well he resigned from the BBC rather than give up his column. And he worked for the BBC again on several occassions. So no, I haven't seen any evidence so far that he's "lost work from establishments that have 'values'".
Have people described him as "a bad person rather than a person that has done some bad things"? - I guess a few have in this thread. We can agree on that. But it's all much of a muchness really, I'm not sure what it proves about anything. It didn't restrict him from having and airing his views in any way that I can tell.
Like I said, if you want cancelled to mean 'some people didn't like him' then yeah, I agree! | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:14 - Aug 4 with 919 views | itfcjoe |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:59 - Aug 4 by Ryorry |
I used the word "enabling" - not "promoting" as you have. And he did do the former, even if unwittingly - how can you read what Jenni Murray said & not understand that? Absolutely baffling.
Paedophiles are not nuanced in what they seek out online.
Huge difference between them & politicians who are basically decent but make mistakes. People could be and were nuanced about Corbyn - I wrote on here that I thought he was an ace constituency MP but a very poor leader, eg. [Post edited 4 Aug 15:03]
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I was replying to a post specifically saying "promoting", so not sure there is anything to take issue with there.
I personally agree with what Jenni Murray says, but that doesn't make it an undisputed fact, sure plenty of people would be able to argue against it with validity
Also "paedophiles" aren't just one mass of people who act exactly the same [Post edited 4 Aug 15:15]
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:18 - Aug 4 with 898 views | Trequartista |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:08 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I have answered you in good faith. You used the word cancelled and I responded to that.
Has he "lost work from establishments that have 'values'"? Well he resigned from the BBC rather than give up his column. And he worked for the BBC again on several occassions. So no, I haven't seen any evidence so far that he's "lost work from establishments that have 'values'".
Have people described him as "a bad person rather than a person that has done some bad things"? - I guess a few have in this thread. We can agree on that. But it's all much of a muchness really, I'm not sure what it proves about anything. It didn't restrict him from having and airing his views in any way that I can tell.
Like I said, if you want cancelled to mean 'some people didn't like him' then yeah, I agree! |
He appeared on the BBC, but never worked for them again and I think the "some people didn't like him" definition is not something i said, but apart from that, I think this has run its course now and I think you've argued in good faith too here this time even though we disagree. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:27 - Aug 4 with 839 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:34 - Aug 4 by itfcjoe |
He wasn't promoting paedophilia, just because some people have read it and felt that is what he has done doesn't mean that is what he has actually done.
We've seen countless examples of things like this - i.e. when Corbyn did things that people said were antisemitic - there is nuance in positions and just because someone has said his column promoted paedophilia it doesn't make it an undisputable fact |
The article was titled, "Should it really be a crime to look at child pornography?"
He said, "There is no causal link between viewing child porn and abusing children" - other than for there to be a market for child porn, children have to be abused.
And he said, "We should not be in the business of putting people in prison for simply looking at things" ...while refusing requests to speak to the NSPCC who, quite rightly, would point out that there's more to it than "simply looking at things".
You can argue the toss about whether that's promoting, enabling, whatever, but it doesn't exactly help does it?
People will make up their own minds, I guess. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:35 - Aug 4 with 807 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:18 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
He appeared on the BBC, but never worked for them again and I think the "some people didn't like him" definition is not something i said, but apart from that, I think this has run its course now and I think you've argued in good faith too here this time even though we disagree. |
Presumably if he appeared on the BBC then he was getting paid by them/working for them? | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 16:04 - Aug 4 with 755 views | Ryorry |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:14 - Aug 4 by itfcjoe |
I was replying to a post specifically saying "promoting", so not sure there is anything to take issue with there.
I personally agree with what Jenni Murray says, but that doesn't make it an undisputed fact, sure plenty of people would be able to argue against it with validity
Also "paedophiles" aren't just one mass of people who act exactly the same [Post edited 4 Aug 15:15]
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Sorry, mistakenly thought you were replying to me.
I think what Jenni Murray said is an undisputed fact. You could always contact the NSPCC or other child safe-guarding agencies to check. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 16:13 - Aug 4 with 728 views | Blueschev |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 15:35 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Presumably if he appeared on the BBC then he was getting paid by them/working for them? |
I think there's a difference between appearing on Question Time and being the editor of one of their flagship current affairs programmes. |  | | |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 17:11 - Aug 4 with 642 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 16:13 - Aug 4 by Blueschev |
I think there's a difference between appearing on Question Time and being the editor of one of their flagship current affairs programmes. |
Not in this discussion there isn't. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 17:13 - Aug 4 with 641 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:12 - Aug 4 by balcombeblue |
Totally, pick another public figure such as Dianne Abbott. She’s done a huge amount of progressive good over the years, but also wrote an anti-Semitic article for the Observer. The response was similarly divided. I still support that she wrote it. Is she now in line for similar treatment? |
Speaking f Diane Abbot. Burnham has just let her back in the Labour party. Last month she described Russia's invasion of Ukraine as “the NATO campaign against Russia”. She shouldn't be anywhere near the party of government.
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 08:31 - Aug 5 with 444 views | StokieBlue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 14:33 - Aug 4 by balcombeblue |
Exactly this.
Re-read my fist post on page 2 if in any doubt. I have re-read all of the comments in this thread as some of the posts made me question what I wrote last night. Fortunately I remembered correctly.
I’m Liddle’s mouthpiece
Your thing is to be contrarian
I won’t construct equivalence between us
You don’t do yourself any favours thinking people won’t notice
Poisoning the well
You’re a sea lion
I’m schrodingers cat
I doubt you had to look it up |
Interesting that you claim to be a victim then follow GB's childish technique of changing his avatar to try and provoke and pick fun at other posters. He's been asked not to do it before so it's not a route I would take.
It's also incredibly childish. I thought you wanted debate not provocation?
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 08:34 - Aug 5 with 425 views | balcombeblue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 08:31 - Aug 5 by StokieBlue |
Interesting that you claim to be a victim then follow GB's childish technique of changing his avatar to try and provoke and pick fun at other posters. He's been asked not to do it before so it's not a route I would take.
It's also incredibly childish. I thought you wanted debate not provocation?
SB |
I actually thought it was just a bit of fun and slightly amusing.
I didn’t have an avatar before. You’ve thrown a few labels around and I’ve had a joke about it. Shame we can’t both just laugh and move on.
But out of respect and in the interests of continuing debate, I’ll change it. | | | |
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