| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble 19:49 - Sep 5 with 4731 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Pushed a fan by the throat. Pompy Manager has apologised, but seems pretty clear he did put his hands on the fan, who looks to be about 14.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
[Post edited 6 Sep 13:40]
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:18 - Sep 6 with 641 views | TripSwitch |
Portsmouth fans have previous for this. Luke O Nein got punched a few years ago in League 1. They're a proper frothing at the mouth type fanbase much like Birmingham City. |  |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:19 - Sep 6 with 668 views | Churchman |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 12:52 - Sep 6 by Nutkins_Return |
What an absolutely ridiculous statement. Ffs people love to exaggerate.
Nobody is defending it. People just love to make something into extreme. We've gone from "grabbing by the throat" to now "choking out a child".. honestly pathetic and dangerous how this is the way things now get sensationalized
He'll rightly get in trouble. You can't be putting hands on a teen no matter how annoying they are. The point is the punishment should be for what he did not this nonsense talk.
Thank got cameras there so he's not facing people's word that he "choked out a kid". |
Well, let’s hope the young man’s convalescence and recovery is swift once he gets out of intensive care. Should he make a full recovery, maybe he will learn that sometimes in life there are consequences for your actions.
My view is similar to Garv’s it’s a whole lot of nothing.
However, the player must have rocks for brains to do what he did. Cameras everywhere, it was beyond stupid and he shouldn’t have done it. The consequences for him will be an FA charge, loss of money and a ban which won’t exactly endear himself to the people that pay his wages. Idiot. |  | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:30 - Sep 6 with 640 views | Garv |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:09 - Sep 6 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Look up ABH or Common Assault and see what qualifies.
Honest to God the fact you continue to play this down is ridiculous. [Post edited 6 Sep 13:19]
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I'm seeing just as much playing up of the incident on this thread as there is playing it down. |  |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:36 - Sep 6 with 626 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:30 - Sep 6 by Garv |
I'm seeing just as much playing up of the incident on this thread as there is playing it down. |
So it's ok to play it down because others are 'playing it up'? It happened, in the way it is seen in the video. Maybe I was Hyperbolic when I put 'grabbed by the throat', but, people playing it up doesn't change the fact it happened.
What I find shocking is any kind of acceptance on this thread of a 28 year old player placing his hand on the throat of a child (being under 18) because he was provoked. (By the kid throwing the ball away).
Anyone that condones that as OK on a child (Irrespective of what size they are), at such a weak 'provocation' is a wrong 'un in my book. [Post edited 6 Sep 13:38]
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:42 - Sep 6 with 610 views | ReusersTown |
Not sure what you gain by being intentionally misleading, As it's the Portsmouth manager apologising with the whole BBC article being around the fan striking the Cardiff player first. You're presenting it as the other way around. |  | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:45 - Sep 6 with 603 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:42 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
Not sure what you gain by being intentionally misleading, As it's the Portsmouth manager apologising with the whole BBC article being around the fan striking the Cardiff player first. You're presenting it as the other way around. |
He clearly didn't. Try watching the video. | |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:45 - Sep 6 with 603 views | ReusersTown |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 12:40 - Sep 6 by berkstractorboy |
I think the apology is only towards Cardiff staff and players and is not towards the fan and his family. Poor behaviour from fan to throw it away but often happens, it's just the proximity of the player to the fan at the time. This only ends one way with a ban for a player as you cannot put the hands on a fan regardless. |
But a fan can slap a player? As is what's been reported | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:46 - Sep 6 with 600 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:45 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
But a fan can slap a player? As is what's been reported |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:49 - Sep 6 with 586 views | ReusersTown |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:45 - Sep 6 by Cheltenham_Blue |
He clearly didn't. Try watching the video. |
Why are the BBC and Portsmouth's own manager reporting and reacting to it as such then? It's obviously not been picked up in that video, have some common sense. | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:51 - Sep 6 with 573 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:42 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
Not sure what you gain by being intentionally misleading, As it's the Portsmouth manager apologising with the whole BBC article being around the fan striking the Cardiff player first. You're presenting it as the other way around. |
This article?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
I don't see a BBC article that says anything about a fan striking the player first. In fact the only comment about the player being slapped is by the Cardiff head-coach, and that doesn't specify first or as a reaction. | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:52 - Sep 6 with 566 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:42 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
Not sure what you gain by being intentionally misleading, As it's the Portsmouth manager apologising with the whole BBC article being around the fan striking the Cardiff player first. You're presenting it as the other way around. |
That reaction was before he saw the video - going simply off what the referee told him.
And the referee clearly needs to go to specsavers.
Lad tossed the ball away ( like happens at many grounds all season ) then a grown man got the arse about it and put his hands either on his throat or shoulder/neck at which point the kid slapped the player. | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:53 - Sep 6 with 562 views | ReusersTown |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:51 - Sep 6 by SuffolkPunchFC |
This article?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
I don't see a BBC article that says anything about a fan striking the player first. In fact the only comment about the player being slapped is by the Cardiff head-coach, and that doesn't specify first or as a reaction. |
Ermmm... The very article posted by the OP
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:53 - Sep 6 with 562 views | Ryorry |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:49 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
Why are the BBC and Portsmouth's own manager reporting and reacting to it as such then? It's obviously not been picked up in that video, have some common sense. |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
From that rticle -
"Pompey added in a statement:, external "Portsmouth Football Club are aware of supporter concerns regarding the incident involving a young fan and an opposition player at yesterday's match at Fratton Park.
"As this remains a safeguarding matter and is currently under investigation by both the club and the police, it would be inappropriate for us to comment further on the circumstances at this time.
"However, we are aware that a number of claims and assertions are circulating on social media. We would urge caution against speculation while enquiries are ongoing.
"The welfare and safeguarding of young people are of paramount importance to Portsmouth Football Club. We will continue to liaise with the relevant parties as enquiries progress.
"No further comment will be made at this stage while investigations remain ongoing."
The Football Association is aware of the matter and will review the details in the referee's match report before deciding whether any action should be taken. |  |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:56 - Sep 6 with 551 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:49 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
Why are the BBC and Portsmouth's own manager reporting and reacting to it as such then? It's obviously not been picked up in that video, have some common sense. |
Because Mousinho hadn't seen it.
Read his actual words rather than the headline: “The referee said…”
He was repeating what he'd been told immediately after the game and apologising on that basis.
The BBC doesn't actually say it has established that the fan struck Bielik first either. It says Barry-Murphy claimed Bielik was slapped, while also acknowledging the footage showing Bielik grabbing the supporter.
And the video fills in the rather important bit the initial account misses: the lad throws the ball away, Bielik reaches into the stand and pushes him around the neck/upper body, then the lad reacts and strikes/pushes him.
So no, it isn't a case of the video somehow “not picking up” the fan hitting him first. The footage shows the sequence. Mousinho was responding to what the referee told him before he'd seen it.
You can certainly criticise the lad for throwing the ball away, and you can say he shouldn't have retaliated physically.
But that's a rather different argument from claiming he assaulted Bielik first. | |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:58 - Sep 6 with 530 views | ReusersTown |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:56 - Sep 6 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Because Mousinho hadn't seen it.
Read his actual words rather than the headline: “The referee said…”
He was repeating what he'd been told immediately after the game and apologising on that basis.
The BBC doesn't actually say it has established that the fan struck Bielik first either. It says Barry-Murphy claimed Bielik was slapped, while also acknowledging the footage showing Bielik grabbing the supporter.
And the video fills in the rather important bit the initial account misses: the lad throws the ball away, Bielik reaches into the stand and pushes him around the neck/upper body, then the lad reacts and strikes/pushes him.
So no, it isn't a case of the video somehow “not picking up” the fan hitting him first. The footage shows the sequence. Mousinho was responding to what the referee told him before he'd seen it.
You can certainly criticise the lad for throwing the ball away, and you can say he shouldn't have retaliated physically.
But that's a rather different argument from claiming he assaulted Bielik first. |
Ok, if that's the case then I'm mistaken, not how I read it, and don't understand why he would be making that apology if it was not the case.
I'm not going to get in to the ins and outs of whether that constitutes assault or whether it should. [Post edited 6 Sep 14:00]
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:00 - Sep 6 with 521 views | bartyg |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 12:52 - Sep 6 by Nutkins_Return |
What an absolutely ridiculous statement. Ffs people love to exaggerate.
Nobody is defending it. People just love to make something into extreme. We've gone from "grabbing by the throat" to now "choking out a child".. honestly pathetic and dangerous how this is the way things now get sensationalized
He'll rightly get in trouble. You can't be putting hands on a teen no matter how annoying they are. The point is the punishment should be for what he did not this nonsense talk.
Thank got cameras there so he's not facing people's word that he "choked out a kid". |
Hey man, I'm not prosecuting here. And there are people defending it, have you read this thread? |  |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:02 - Sep 6 with 508 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:52 - Sep 6 by burnbudgiesburn |
That reaction was before he saw the video - going simply off what the referee told him.
And the referee clearly needs to go to specsavers.
Lad tossed the ball away ( like happens at many grounds all season ) then a grown man got the arse about it and put his hands either on his throat or shoulder/neck at which point the kid slapped the player. |
Not only Specsavers for glasses but for a hearing test too. You clearly see a steward tell the referee about the incident and gesture toward his throat. | |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:02 - Sep 6 with 505 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Re-read it then, because it doesn’t say what you’re claiming. | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:04 - Sep 6 with 496 views | bartyg |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 13:19 - Sep 6 by Churchman |
Well, let’s hope the young man’s convalescence and recovery is swift once he gets out of intensive care. Should he make a full recovery, maybe he will learn that sometimes in life there are consequences for your actions.
My view is similar to Garv’s it’s a whole lot of nothing.
However, the player must have rocks for brains to do what he did. Cameras everywhere, it was beyond stupid and he shouldn’t have done it. The consequences for him will be an FA charge, loss of money and a ban which won’t exactly endear himself to the people that pay his wages. Idiot. |
Consequences for what?
Condemn the player properly, rather than for "his stupidity for doing it in public". You sound like you've got previous, should we worry about your family? | |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:05 - Sep 6 with 490 views | ReusersTown |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:00 - Sep 6 by bartyg |
Hey man, I'm not prosecuting here. And there are people defending it, have you read this thread? |
You also calling that" physical violence" & "choking out a child" are part of the problem when it comes to these types of matters. | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:08 - Sep 6 with 471 views | bartyg |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:05 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
You also calling that" physical violence" & "choking out a child" are part of the problem when it comes to these types of matters. |
You're right, I'm too against children being assaulted. I'll tone it down in the future. | |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:10 - Sep 6 with 457 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:05 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
You also calling that" physical violence" & "choking out a child" are part of the problem when it comes to these types of matters. |
Saying someone pushing another person around the neck is “physical violence” really shouldn't be controversial. But that doesn't alter the actual point: Bielik appears to reach into the crowd and physically grab the supporter before the supporter strikes back.
You can't dismiss what the footage shows.
No one is defending the supporter throwing the ball away or retaliating. And the Plod are already investigating this as assault
"Hampshire Police says an investigation into an alleged assault is under way.
"We can confirm that we are investigating an incident in which a teenage boy was reportedly the victim of a common assault during the football match at Fratton Park. Our enquiries are ongoing," the police said" | |
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:29 - Sep 6 with 403 views | ReusersTown |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:10 - Sep 6 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Saying someone pushing another person around the neck is “physical violence” really shouldn't be controversial. But that doesn't alter the actual point: Bielik appears to reach into the crowd and physically grab the supporter before the supporter strikes back.
You can't dismiss what the footage shows.
No one is defending the supporter throwing the ball away or retaliating. And the Plod are already investigating this as assault
"Hampshire Police says an investigation into an alleged assault is under way.
"We can confirm that we are investigating an incident in which a teenage boy was reportedly the victim of a common assault during the football match at Fratton Park. Our enquiries are ongoing," the police said" |
Exactly "reportedly" and "allegedly". Your interpretation of that push to the neck being tantamount to an assault or physical violence is problematic also, basically hunting for outrage. The response of the boy and those in the crowd is similar to that of players diving in a game. | | | |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:29 - Sep 6 with 400 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:29 - Sep 6 by ReusersTown |
Exactly "reportedly" and "allegedly". Your interpretation of that push to the neck being tantamount to an assault or physical violence is problematic also, basically hunting for outrage. The response of the boy and those in the crowd is similar to that of players diving in a game. |
The police think otherwise or they wouldn't bother investigating the 'alleged common assault'.
A lot of people revealing themselves as thinking laying your hands on a child is ok in certain circumstances in this thread. [Post edited 6 Sep 14:32]
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| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:48 - Sep 6 with 368 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Cardiff’s Beilik in trouble on 14:08 - Sep 6 by bartyg |
You're right, I'm too against children being assaulted. I'll tone it down in the future. |
If you make ridiculous statements and massively exaggerate minor incidents like this (as I've stated multiple times it was wrong but clearly not what you said) then it can have a big impact on how really serious incidents/crime and how believed genuine victims are. That's well known and anyone in crime prevention and prosecution will tell you how unhelpful it is. So yes, you should tone it down. Tone it down to what actually happened and to the facts. It's in camera and the authorities will deal with it.
How you think saying "choked out a child' when he doesn't is helpful is beyond me.you just sound like you want to be most righteous person on here. Nobody repeat nobody is pro a child being assaulted. Stop being silly.
I get Cheltenhams stance but yours is silly. I think the only thing in debate isn't wrong or right. It's simply the scale of the incident. Its quite minor but will be punished. | |
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