| Why are there so many "religious" players now? 13:31 - Sep 13 with 10844 views | Meadowlark |
Do any of our players point to the sky when they walk on to the pitch?
Ive just been watching MOTD and there's quite a lot of this nonsense.
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:24 - Sep 13 with 763 views | JohnTy |
Some interesting research on Christian activities among current football players.
It is far more prevalent than I thought.
https://www.christiansinsport.
I did notice at the World Cup meeting between France and England some players from both sides got together and apparently engaged in some religious devotion. |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:24 - Sep 13 with 758 views | Scuzzer |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:44 - Sep 13 by noggin |
Oh my God. |
Who is? |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:26 - Sep 13 with 750 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:28 - Sep 13 by mellowblue |
logically if religions were scientifically proved there would be no need for faith (which is the bedrock of religious thought), as it would be replaced with knowledge. The lack of scientific proof is one of the attractions of religion as it engages the spirituality side of it. |
This is what is known as a "deepity". The statement is correct, but it offers no real insight or importance. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:27 - Sep 13 with 752 views | mellowblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:06 - Sep 13 by Meadowlark |
Well that caused a bit of controversy didn't it?
I was asking because it's a new thing! I notice stuff and wonder why? Perhaps "nonsense" was the wrong word. Although as a non-believevr I do tend to refer to it as nonsense. I don't thnik I'm intolerant or a bigot, but maybe that's not for me to say? I'm interested.
I also wonder why players all point to the sky - or put their arm up, when taking a free kick. I guess had I asked that instead it wouldn't have caused such a fuss.
I think both are trends and many players do these things becasue they've seen others do it. Like touching the grass, or hopping when going on the pitch.
Does it matter? Of course not, but we can discuss it can't we?
I used to enjoy Wes's little moment of contemplation before kick-off, but that was unique to him. It's nice to see a bit of individuality. |
the freekicks and corners arms up thing originally just a code word as to where the ball was going to be struck to, whether nearpost or far post etc. Nothing spiritual. These things can be discussed, but undermining players religious beliefs is not good manners and describing their religions as nonsense is not very helpful in a debate situation. | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:27 - Sep 13 with 742 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:24 - Sep 13 by JohnTy |
Some interesting research on Christian activities among current football players.
It is far more prevalent than I thought.
https://www.christiansinsport.
I did notice at the World Cup meeting between France and England some players from both sides got together and apparently engaged in some religious devotion. |
Given the huge proportion of players in the PL now from south america, africa, etc its not really surprising. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:29 - Sep 13 with 727 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:47 - Sep 13 by Wolfshead |
I do think it's racial bigotry and in no way an overreaction. |
In what way? | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:30 - Sep 13 with 727 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:15 - Sep 13 by baxterbasics |
Yep, a reminder that there are still many places in the world that take their religion seriously, and haven't become a godless Sodom and Gomorrah like the UK has. Even our few remaining Christians are usually pretty apologetic about it. |
I am intrigued to know what ideas or facts you base this on. And specifically what "a godless sodom and gomorrah" actually means? | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:31 - Sep 13 with 726 views | swede |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:21 - Sep 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
He actually ministers in Canada now. He wrote a book about his career and progression from football through commentary and into the ministry. A very articulate and interesting chap. |
Gavin Peacock was in Canada for a number of years but since last year has been the pastor of Bethersden Baptist Church in Kent. | | | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:31 - Sep 13 with 723 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:09 - Sep 13 by positivity |
there's not a lot of correlation between faith and ignoring science.
more of a left/right split (which would have seen chemist thatcher turn in her grave!)
if anything the command to love your neighbour should make you more likely to fight against climate change (with the appalling and disproportionate impacts on those with least resources to cope with them) |
What evidence do you have for that?
I would have thought there is a huge correlation between faith and ignorance of science.
The scientific evidence for the formation of the universe, evolution etc. is so utterly overwhelming, it is becoming increasingly rare and untenable for a scientist to remain credible but argue for a creator.
There appears to be a strong correlation between the right wingers, religious fanatics and science deniers, including denial of climate change.
There isn't much need for science to be a good footballer through, and with the enormous diversity of nationalities involved in top level football, including many from countries with a much stronger religious base, I suspect that's why in relation to the OP's point we are seeing more players give a show of religious actions.
I think it's a shame there is no level playing field - for example the banning of rainbow armbands and intolerance of LGBTQ+ symbolism, when we allow demonstrations of religious affiliation. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:32 - Sep 13 with 717 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:27 - Sep 13 by mellowblue |
the freekicks and corners arms up thing originally just a code word as to where the ball was going to be struck to, whether nearpost or far post etc. Nothing spiritual. These things can be discussed, but undermining players religious beliefs is not good manners and describing their religions as nonsense is not very helpful in a debate situation. |
To be fair to the OP, I didn't read it as describing the religious belief as nonsense at all but rather the public display of it. I can see why someone who is irreligious would see the public display as a bit of nonsense.
I have no issue with the public displays and find it good that players are free to express it in the ways they do. I am glad we don't live in a society where any particular religious belief (or even atheism) is persecuted at all. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:34 - Sep 13 with 709 views | Meadowlark |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:27 - Sep 13 by mellowblue |
the freekicks and corners arms up thing originally just a code word as to where the ball was going to be struck to, whether nearpost or far post etc. Nothing spiritual. These things can be discussed, but undermining players religious beliefs is not good manners and describing their religions as nonsense is not very helpful in a debate situation. |
Thank-you. I feel suitably admonished.
Your explanation of the "free-kicks arm" bears no relation to what actually happens. It's nonsense. [Post edited 13 Sep 16:39]
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:39 - Sep 13 with 691 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:31 - Sep 13 by swede |
Gavin Peacock was in Canada for a number of years but since last year has been the pastor of Bethersden Baptist Church in Kent. |
Ah, it appears he may have moved back to the UK. I was under the belief he was here temporarily and was going to return to Canada. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:43 - Sep 13 with 685 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:31 - Sep 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
What evidence do you have for that?
I would have thought there is a huge correlation between faith and ignorance of science.
The scientific evidence for the formation of the universe, evolution etc. is so utterly overwhelming, it is becoming increasingly rare and untenable for a scientist to remain credible but argue for a creator.
There appears to be a strong correlation between the right wingers, religious fanatics and science deniers, including denial of climate change.
There isn't much need for science to be a good footballer through, and with the enormous diversity of nationalities involved in top level football, including many from countries with a much stronger religious base, I suspect that's why in relation to the OP's point we are seeing more players give a show of religious actions.
I think it's a shame there is no level playing field - for example the banning of rainbow armbands and intolerance of LGBTQ+ symbolism, when we allow demonstrations of religious affiliation. |
i think that's more to do with right-wing/authoritarian governments co-opting religion, with no understanding of it's central message. i'm a scientist and there's a lot of people here with sincere faith.
there's always a sizeable church element of any climate justice protests
the intolerance of lgbtq+/black lives matter symbolism is driven more by culture warriors than those of faith | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:44 - Sep 13 with 674 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:43 - Sep 13 by positivity |
i think that's more to do with right-wing/authoritarian governments co-opting religion, with no understanding of it's central message. i'm a scientist and there's a lot of people here with sincere faith.
there's always a sizeable church element of any climate justice protests
the intolerance of lgbtq+/black lives matter symbolism is driven more by culture warriors than those of faith |
No. Its not just governments, the two things are inexorably entwined, though there is lots of variation and nuance.
Plus you have the fundamental (pun intended) issue of who decides that the "central message" actually is, because its not remotely clear from the main religious texts. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:47 - Sep 13 with 653 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:31 - Sep 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
What evidence do you have for that?
I would have thought there is a huge correlation between faith and ignorance of science.
The scientific evidence for the formation of the universe, evolution etc. is so utterly overwhelming, it is becoming increasingly rare and untenable for a scientist to remain credible but argue for a creator.
There appears to be a strong correlation between the right wingers, religious fanatics and science deniers, including denial of climate change.
There isn't much need for science to be a good footballer through, and with the enormous diversity of nationalities involved in top level football, including many from countries with a much stronger religious base, I suspect that's why in relation to the OP's point we are seeing more players give a show of religious actions.
I think it's a shame there is no level playing field - for example the banning of rainbow armbands and intolerance of LGBTQ+ symbolism, when we allow demonstrations of religious affiliation. |
I know some excellent scientists who are also practicing Christians. No, I don’t know either, but they seem to have no problem reconciling the two. TBH, the Christians I know seem to value the social and community aspect as much as anything.
You do see a lot of religious references in football. It seems more on display than you see in most other settings. At a guess I’d say it could be because of the high number of foreigners in the game coming from countries where religion is still much more a part of life. Just a guess though. There are lots of players from majority Catholic countries around, for example. [Post edited 13 Sep 17:45]
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:50 - Sep 13 with 649 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:34 - Sep 13 by Meadowlark |
Thank-you. I feel suitably admonished.
Your explanation of the "free-kicks arm" bears no relation to what actually happens. It's nonsense. [Post edited 13 Sep 16:39]
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If it was as simple as right arm raised = near post etc, then it would be a doddle for the opposition to work it out. There clearly has to be some sort of code used so the players of the attacking team know what the various arm signals at corners and free kicks actually mean, but that the opposition (and fans) don't. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:58 - Sep 13 with 623 views | bluester |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:22 - Sep 13 by Scuzzer |
Designating as 'nonsense' automatically brings it into the realms of opinion. |
Which is fine. Stunned by something so innocuous getting such a strong reaction. | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:03 - Sep 13 with 607 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:47 - Sep 13 by Swansea_Blue |
I know some excellent scientists who are also practicing Christians. No, I don’t know either, but they seem to have no problem reconciling the two. TBH, the Christians I know seem to value the social and community aspect as much as anything.
You do see a lot of religious references in football. It seems more on display than you see in most other settings. At a guess I’d say it could be because of the high number of foreigners in the game coming from countries where religion is still much more a part of life. Just a guess though. There are lots of players from majority Catholic countries around, for example. [Post edited 13 Sep 17:45]
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Undoubtedly true. Though I think there is often a significant element of self deception in that reconciliation. Depends very much which flavour of religion we are talking about though.
Very difficult to reconcile creationism and original sin with what we know about the world. Much easier to have a nice gentle jesusy belief system and scientific understanding at the same time. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:20 - Sep 13 with 576 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:03 - Sep 13 by redrickstuhaart |
Undoubtedly true. Though I think there is often a significant element of self deception in that reconciliation. Depends very much which flavour of religion we are talking about though.
Very difficult to reconcile creationism and original sin with what we know about the world. Much easier to have a nice gentle jesusy belief system and scientific understanding at the same time. |
creationism isn't a central tenet of christianity/judaism or islam, the creation story isn't intended to be read as a scientific textbook!
people can believe what they want to believe in my book, it's only a problem when it affects someone else negatively. i don't think anyone should be judged as being self deceiving without living the life that has led them there.
i think all fundamentalists, whether they be jews, atheists or communists can improve by being more tolerant of other people and understanding their positions | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:27 - Sep 13 with 550 views | DavoIPB |
Mmm probably the worst post on twtd ever. They do it because it is the most important thing to them in life. Many are from countries where religion is a big part of life. | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:34 - Sep 13 with 542 views | Wolfshead |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:02 - Sep 13 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Might be helpful to show your workings there, if you are going to accuse the OP.
I’m a libertarian I believe people should be free to practice religion. But people should also be free to criticise religion - we aren’t in the Middle Ages. |
My workings.... "there's quite a lot of this nonsense." | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:36 - Sep 13 with 536 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:20 - Sep 13 by positivity |
creationism isn't a central tenet of christianity/judaism or islam, the creation story isn't intended to be read as a scientific textbook!
people can believe what they want to believe in my book, it's only a problem when it affects someone else negatively. i don't think anyone should be judged as being self deceiving without living the life that has led them there.
i think all fundamentalists, whether they be jews, atheists or communists can improve by being more tolerant of other people and understanding their positions |
Err, yes it is - certainly for Christianity and Judaism, not 100% sure about Islam. The bible (Old Testament) is founded on God creating the universe and everything in it. If God didn't create it, then he's not all powerful. Which relegates him to being a mere prophet.
It's beyond any intelligent debate that religion was crated by men to control the masses. The combination of fear ("you'll burn in hell") and royal (now political) power has succeeded for millennia in keeping all the proles in their place.
Unsurprisingly, the political elite and mega rich and powerful want to perpetuate the status quo and hence the alliances we see, including denial (and defunding) of science and climate change. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:48 - Sep 13 with 506 views | jontysnut |
It's no worse than having lucky shin pads, doing a hop skip and jump before coming on or Paul Ince insisting on coming out last with his top off. I myself think it's all a load of old toffee but each to their own. |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:55 - Sep 13 with 491 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:36 - Sep 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Err, yes it is - certainly for Christianity and Judaism, not 100% sure about Islam. The bible (Old Testament) is founded on God creating the universe and everything in it. If God didn't create it, then he's not all powerful. Which relegates him to being a mere prophet.
It's beyond any intelligent debate that religion was crated by men to control the masses. The combination of fear ("you'll burn in hell") and royal (now political) power has succeeded for millennia in keeping all the proles in their place.
Unsurprisingly, the political elite and mega rich and powerful want to perpetuate the status quo and hence the alliances we see, including denial (and defunding) of science and climate change. |
bit of a misunderstanding i think, by the "creation story" i mean everything happened word for word as set out in the first 2 books of the torah or the bible.
i'd agree that they would state that god created the universe, settled science would have no opinion on that afaik, it starts with the big bang, without making a judgement on how and why the universe happened to be in that state at that time.
i'd also agree that the rich and powerful have used and abused religion for their own ends, just as they've used and abused many other belief systems, "animal farm" is a good example of this.
better to express our righteous anger at the perpetrators of the status quo rather than insult footballers or scientists who have a sincere and tolerant faith | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:57 - Sep 13 with 482 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:03 - Sep 13 by redrickstuhaart |
Undoubtedly true. Though I think there is often a significant element of self deception in that reconciliation. Depends very much which flavour of religion we are talking about though.
Very difficult to reconcile creationism and original sin with what we know about the world. Much easier to have a nice gentle jesusy belief system and scientific understanding at the same time. |
Having worked in universities for a bit I’ve come across quite a few different religious scientists (and non-scientists): evangelical, Welsh Baptist, catholics, Hindu. I’m not sure they think about it particularly deeply. I suppose if you work in a specialist field in pretty much any subject area potential conflicts around questions of creationism are unlikely to crop up. Maybe they can then just compartmentalise work from their religion. I don’t know really. | |
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