| Shabama Mahmood 12:06 - Nov 5 with 2697 views | DJR |
Leaving aside the unfairness of changing the goalposts for "legal" migrants already here, with all the extra cost and uncertainty that brings, her proposals for those who arrive by small boat but are given refugee status are pretty deplorable.
It's hardly caused a stir but here is the reaction from some quarters.
Imran Hussain, executive director of external affairs at the Refugee Council, said:
"Refugees are being asked to rebuild their lives on a status that expires every 30 months for what could be 30 years. That is unfair and unworkable.
These plans condemn refugees to decades of deep insecurity, unable to lay down roots in Britain and contribute their potential. And there is no evidence to suggest that harming refugee integration will act as a disincentive to refugees fleeing the Taliban or brutal conflicts like Sudan. It also creates another bureaucratic nightmare for a Home Office that already is struggling with poor quality initial decisions on asylum cases which is leading to avoidable costs and delays in the appeals system."
Flora Alexander, executive director of International Rescue Committee UK, said:
"A route to settlement that takes up to 30 years means people will be left in limbo for more than a third of their lifetime. Those who have fled conflict and persecution should have the chance to rebuild their lives, not put them on hold for decades."
And the UNHCR said this.
“An extended qualifying period for settlement for refugees raises significant concerns, particularly when considered alongside the introduction of short-term stay arrangements and changes made last year that would preclude many from ever accessing citizenship.
Taken together, these measures are likely to be detrimental to refugees’ sense of security, belonging and stability, and to impact their ability to contribute and become part of their new communities.
Refugees are not migrants: they have fled their countries because they cannot rely on their protection nor safely return home. For refugees, safety means more than a grant of asylum and settlement has an important role to play.”
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| Shabama Mahmood on 09:24 - Nov 6 with 0 views | ellerblue |
Another set back for me and my German wife , we are both retired and wish to be reunited with my family in uk, as it stood before my wife could get settled status in 5 years at a cost of over 11000 pounds, we are now in limbo over whether the qualifiying period in 5 or 10 years , also prior to this the annual income was 29000 pounds per annum , we have contacted the relevant immigration authorities asking for clarification , the answer being we dont know at the moment, advising us to sit and wait , because the initial visa request is over 2000 pounds but is not refundable. so sit and wait thank you brexit |  |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 09:33 - Nov 6 with 0 views | DJR |
| Shabama Mahmood on 09:24 - Nov 6 by ellerblue |
Another set back for me and my German wife , we are both retired and wish to be reunited with my family in uk, as it stood before my wife could get settled status in 5 years at a cost of over 11000 pounds, we are now in limbo over whether the qualifiying period in 5 or 10 years , also prior to this the annual income was 29000 pounds per annum , we have contacted the relevant immigration authorities asking for clarification , the answer being we dont know at the moment, advising us to sit and wait , because the initial visa request is over 2000 pounds but is not refundable. so sit and wait thank you brexit |
It's for people like you that I feel desperately sorry, and there will hundreds of thousands like you who now face uncertainty.
There was a Scottish women on the radio the other day whose husband will be affected. They have a child, and one could envisage a situation where he has to leave the country but she has no right to live in the country which he hails from.
We could well end up with a situation not dissimilar to the Windrush scandal but on steroids.
In my view, it is performative cruelty. [Post edited 6 Nov 9:42]
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| Shabama Mahmood on 09:33 - Nov 6 with 0 views | lowhouseblue |
| Shabama Mahmood on 09:19 - Nov 6 by DJR |
Immigration has been at the forefront since well before the Brexit referendum, and I am not sure you can blame the left for what has happened given the Tories were in power for 14 years.
As it is, the impression I get is that the social care concessions may well have prevented any further rebellion by the PLP but who knows?
All I do know is that the Boris wave would be your specialist subject if you ever went on Mastermind.  [Post edited 6 Nov 9:24]
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i'll take the last sentence as recognition that what i have posted for the last 3 or 4 years - and been routinely abused for - the huge numbers, the shift to low skill people, the shift to non-economically active people, the change from migrants being on average a net economic benefit in terms of growth, productivity, and public finances to on average being a net cost, the impact on social housing, is all now accepted as fact by the government and by the serious media. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 09:36 - Nov 6 with 0 views | DJR |
| Shabama Mahmood on 09:33 - Nov 6 by lowhouseblue |
i'll take the last sentence as recognition that what i have posted for the last 3 or 4 years - and been routinely abused for - the huge numbers, the shift to low skill people, the shift to non-economically active people, the change from migrants being on average a net economic benefit in terms of growth, productivity, and public finances to on average being a net cost, the impact on social housing, is all now accepted as fact by the government and by the serious media. |
Your first sentence is correct but It is certainly not me who has abused you as it is not my way. [Post edited 6 Nov 9:38]
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| Shabama Mahmood on 09:38 - Nov 6 with 0 views | lowhouseblue |
| Shabama Mahmood on 09:36 - Nov 6 by DJR |
Your first sentence is correct but It is certainly not me who has abused you as it is not my way. [Post edited 6 Nov 9:38]
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never said it was and i recognise that you don't do that. so have thanks and an uppie. [Post edited 6 Nov 9:38]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 09:58 - Nov 6 with 0 views | EdwardStone |
| Shabama Mahmood on 23:09 - Nov 5 by J2BLUE |
I said there could be multiple options with different systems to tally votes.
I am interested in what you would do? Immigration is constantly the biggest issue in polls so what would you do about it? I know many on here would just like to ignore it but genuinely curious as to what you would do? |
Sorry to disappoint, but I don't have a simple answer to a very complex issue
I believe that the issue of immigration has been apallingly handled by past Governments and we have endured some seriously poor politicians milking the topic for their personal furtherment and financial gain
The heat needs to be taken out of the situation.... currently it is causing huge social and societal division, the fires being stoked by various fake "patriots" and bigots, then fanned by the media.
I suggest that quiet and efficient processing of asylum seekers coupled with a fair and transparent immigration system would be the way forward for the next few years.... hopefully this will allow the topic to slowly drop off the fromt pages of the tabloids and slip down the priority list of people's concerns
Currently the whole immigration situation has got far too much traction; we need to be getting to grips with cost of living, climate change and trying to elegantly manage our post industrial society.
Your idea of a referendum would cause massive harm and acheive no good..... like trying to extinguish a wildfire with a couple of tankers full of E5 unleaded |  | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:04 - Nov 6 with 0 views | OldFart71 |
| Shabama Mahmood on 20:03 - Nov 5 by EdwardStone |
There is just soooo much wrong in this post, it isn't easy to know where to start
One should certainly have sympathy with refugees... can you actually spend a moment to wonder how desperate their lives must be to want to leave their home and all they know to risk everything on finding a better life.
For many years, the UK has been lauded throughout the World as a bastion of common decency and fair play. Our culture and language has covered the globe in ways that other countries like France, Italy and Spain can only dream of
In the last centuary we stood alone as a beacon of hope and democracy in a world threatened by zealots and tyranny.
It is little wonder to me that people from all over the world admire us and wish to join us.... can you imagine living in a country that literally no one admired or wished to become a part of?
Maybe the people coming here speak English but not French? Maybe they already have some rellies or contacts here who might be able to help them?
And I guess a family marooned in a UN refugee camp in Syria might not have enough money for everyone to travel to try and build a new life in a new land....so they pick the one person most likely to arrive in one piece and hopefully get a toe-hold to then be able to invite the remaining family members at some later stage....so not the aged grandma, not the teenage daughter, not the wife with babe in arms but the young strong male who has the best chance to survive the journey and commence a new life
Leaving their women and children behind is not an easy choice; it is an economic reality
Please... just spend a few moments and try to imagine what decisions you might make if you were stuck in a UN refugee camp, you have been living in a tent for the past few years. You have been given enough food and water so you don't die, but you cannot return to your farm because of war, you have no hope and you cannot see a future..... what might you do?
Walk a mile in their shoes fella [Post edited 5 Nov 20:30]
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Your idea that people all over the world admire us is so far out. The French have continually told us the reason we have so many coming here is because we are far too generous.
Why are those is the Caribbean chasing reparations for slavery when we were the ones that ended it. Simply because they see pound signs in their eyes.
I would suggest you ask France why these people live in tents in their country.
Many come from countries not war torn.
I have no problem with people coming here. It is said we need 160,000 carers, but since Labour came in over 200,000 immigrants have come in. These jobs are low paid (Too low paid in my opinion) but that just means there are 40,000 unemployed and added to that relatives that come here as well.
Until a government, whichever one it is, gets into their tiny minds just building houses without infrastructure just doesn't work,
To get an appointment at our local surgery takes an hour and a quarter to get through,
To have a blood test, which I require every six months I have to travel a 30 mile round journey simply because our local surgery is underfunded. These are not my take on it. We have been told by staff.
I am not saying it is wrong for anyone to try for a better life, but between places like Iraq, Afghanistan,Syria,Pakistan etc, etc there are many countries where these people could settle.
Look at what is happening in Germany and especially France where the far right is getting a large amount of votes and people are rioting due to the state of their economies. I am not saying it is all due to immigration but when you heap more and more costs onto a country it reaches breaking point.
As a small island we cannot afford to police the world. We have over 50,000 army personnel less than we did just a few decades ago. Countries like India have overtaken us in the wealth stakes. Yes there may still be huge wealth in the UK but many of these have left due to what they see as a government against them.
I am merely stating economic facts and not in any way saying I have no compassion with some of the immigrants. I say some as not all are here to do good or help themselves. | | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:10 - Nov 6 with 0 views | Radlett_blue |
| Shabama Mahmood on 09:58 - Nov 6 by EdwardStone |
Sorry to disappoint, but I don't have a simple answer to a very complex issue
I believe that the issue of immigration has been apallingly handled by past Governments and we have endured some seriously poor politicians milking the topic for their personal furtherment and financial gain
The heat needs to be taken out of the situation.... currently it is causing huge social and societal division, the fires being stoked by various fake "patriots" and bigots, then fanned by the media.
I suggest that quiet and efficient processing of asylum seekers coupled with a fair and transparent immigration system would be the way forward for the next few years.... hopefully this will allow the topic to slowly drop off the fromt pages of the tabloids and slip down the priority list of people's concerns
Currently the whole immigration situation has got far too much traction; we need to be getting to grips with cost of living, climate change and trying to elegantly manage our post industrial society.
Your idea of a referendum would cause massive harm and acheive no good..... like trying to extinguish a wildfire with a couple of tankers full of E5 unleaded |
"Improving" the asylum system is a near impossibility. They system, which was designed to accommodate political dissidents from tyrannical regimes, or those fleeing persecution suffered by the Jew from the Nazis, is no longer fit for purpose. I doubt more than a small minority come under that category these days. However, the availability of information these days makes it simple for a claimant to concoct a story that will bring a favourable result. The system is also bogged down in expensive, tortuous legal detail, involving appeals funded by legal aid & the dreaded ECHR.
Controlled immigration should still be a positive for Britain, but we need to pull out of the ECHR & devise our own system - based on the Australian points system - that encourages immigrants to come through safe, legal routes. |  |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 10:20 - Nov 6 with 0 views | Benters |
| Shabama Mahmood on 07:42 - Nov 6 by MattinLondon |
Not like you to upvote meaningless drivel with no basis in fact. |
Here he is we don’t want any borders let the whole of Africa in etc. |  |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 10:51 - Nov 6 with 0 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Shabama Mahmood on 07:24 - Nov 6 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
The suggestion that France does nothing is incorrect. UK-funded French operations have prevented thousands of crossings as evidenced by the reduction in numbers
It’s not 95%. Home office figures show 72% male, 13% female and 15% children.
https://commonslibrary.parliam
A significant majority, but as you say, it’s a dangerous crossing. Men travel ahead of their families and they subsequently seek to reunite through legal family migration routes. There are various studies
https://migrationobservatory.o
The Ukraine comparison isn't quite fair either. Ukrainian men of military age have faced restrictions on leaving the country under martial law. That's a very different situation from people fleeing conflicts elsewhere.
We can absolutely debate immigration policy, border security and public spending without relying on exaggerated figures or assumptions about everyone making the journey. Facts matter, whichever side of the debate we're on. |
Why the down vote Benters, surely not for the massive reduction in numbers, thought you’d be very happy with that |  |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 10:58 - Nov 6 with 0 views | Benters |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:51 - Nov 6 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Why the down vote Benters, surely not for the massive reduction in numbers, thought you’d be very happy with that |
Because it’s bull buh. | |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 11:12 - Nov 6 with 0 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:58 - Nov 6 by Benters |
Because it’s bull buh. |
Numbers aren’t reducing? | |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 11:18 - Nov 6 with 0 views | Benters |
Do you believe they are ? I don’t. | |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 12:13 - Nov 6 with 0 views | Blueschev |
| Shabama Mahmood on 11:18 - Nov 6 by Benters |
Do you believe they are ? I don’t. |
Based on what? |  | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 12:33 - Nov 6 with 0 views | MattinLondon |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:04 - Nov 6 by OldFart71 |
Your idea that people all over the world admire us is so far out. The French have continually told us the reason we have so many coming here is because we are far too generous.
Why are those is the Caribbean chasing reparations for slavery when we were the ones that ended it. Simply because they see pound signs in their eyes.
I would suggest you ask France why these people live in tents in their country.
Many come from countries not war torn.
I have no problem with people coming here. It is said we need 160,000 carers, but since Labour came in over 200,000 immigrants have come in. These jobs are low paid (Too low paid in my opinion) but that just means there are 40,000 unemployed and added to that relatives that come here as well.
Until a government, whichever one it is, gets into their tiny minds just building houses without infrastructure just doesn't work,
To get an appointment at our local surgery takes an hour and a quarter to get through,
To have a blood test, which I require every six months I have to travel a 30 mile round journey simply because our local surgery is underfunded. These are not my take on it. We have been told by staff.
I am not saying it is wrong for anyone to try for a better life, but between places like Iraq, Afghanistan,Syria,Pakistan etc, etc there are many countries where these people could settle.
Look at what is happening in Germany and especially France where the far right is getting a large amount of votes and people are rioting due to the state of their economies. I am not saying it is all due to immigration but when you heap more and more costs onto a country it reaches breaking point.
As a small island we cannot afford to police the world. We have over 50,000 army personnel less than we did just a few decades ago. Countries like India have overtaken us in the wealth stakes. Yes there may still be huge wealth in the UK but many of these have left due to what they see as a government against them.
I am merely stating economic facts and not in any way saying I have no compassion with some of the immigrants. I say some as not all are here to do good or help themselves. |
Insinuating that Caribbean nations should be thankful to the UK for abolishing the slave trade is like an arsonist burning down a building, killing quite a lot of people but then rushing in to save a couple and then expecting them to be grateful and getting off Scott free.
And I don’t even think that reparation payments is the correct route to go down. |  | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 13:01 - Nov 6 with 0 views | MattinLondon |
| Shabama Mahmood on 12:13 - Nov 6 by Blueschev |
Based on what? |
What Gbeebies tell him. | | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 13:09 - Nov 6 with 0 views | bartyg |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:20 - Nov 6 by Benters |
Here he is we don’t want any borders let the whole of Africa in etc. |
Not clearing the racism allegations with posts like this. |  |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 14:05 - Nov 6 with 0 views | J2BLUE |
| Shabama Mahmood on 09:58 - Nov 6 by EdwardStone |
Sorry to disappoint, but I don't have a simple answer to a very complex issue
I believe that the issue of immigration has been apallingly handled by past Governments and we have endured some seriously poor politicians milking the topic for their personal furtherment and financial gain
The heat needs to be taken out of the situation.... currently it is causing huge social and societal division, the fires being stoked by various fake "patriots" and bigots, then fanned by the media.
I suggest that quiet and efficient processing of asylum seekers coupled with a fair and transparent immigration system would be the way forward for the next few years.... hopefully this will allow the topic to slowly drop off the fromt pages of the tabloids and slip down the priority list of people's concerns
Currently the whole immigration situation has got far too much traction; we need to be getting to grips with cost of living, climate change and trying to elegantly manage our post industrial society.
Your idea of a referendum would cause massive harm and acheive no good..... like trying to extinguish a wildfire with a couple of tankers full of E5 unleaded |
So, respectfully, your idea is to continuing ignoring the issue? That is not going to end well and will inevitably lead to a Reform or Restore government at some point. |  | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 14:26 - Nov 6 with 0 views | MattinLondon |
| Shabama Mahmood on 10:20 - Nov 6 by Benters |
Here he is we don’t want any borders let the whole of Africa in etc. |
Not sure if it’s irony or not but your brexit lunacy has ushered in more small boats as well as more immigration from Africa and Asia.
If you’re looking to blame anyone for immigration to seemingly go up take responsibility for it yourself. Your actions, as well as your hotel shouting allies has led to an escalation in the small boats.
The fact that they’re falling in numbers does not strip you and your fellow Reformers from blame. | | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 15:27 - Nov 6 with 0 views | DJR |
| Shabama Mahmood on 14:05 - Nov 6 by J2BLUE |
So, respectfully, your idea is to continuing ignoring the issue? That is not going to end well and will inevitably lead to a Reform or Restore government at some point. |
It's not clear to me the issue has been ignored.
This from the OBR's recent Budget report.
"Reflecting these latest data, and informed by our migration model,
we expect net migration to fall to 120,000 in the year to mid-2026 (right panel of Chart
2.9).7 The near-term decline reflects visa restrictions introduced since 2023 alongside higher emigration following past high levels of immigration, especially among students. Net migration is then forecast to rise gradually to 230,000 by the year to mid-2031, in line with the ‘principal variant’ of the latest ONS population projections. This rise largely reflects our assumption that the net outflow of British nationals and EU nationals who arrived under the pre-Brexit immigration regime will gradually lessen. We judge our net migration forecast to be a reasonable central assumption based on recent outturn data, our modelling infrastructure, and current government policy"
I know Cameron talked about lowering net migration to the tens of thousands but that may well not be achievable unless we severely limit immigration, for example, by stopping foreign students arriving completely.
At the same time, Mahmood is proposing quite a toughening of the rules for acquiring settled status.
And the Tories, as well as Reform and Restore) are waiting in the wings to be even more drastic on both fronts. [Post edited 6 Nov 15:31]
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| Shabama Mahmood on 15:39 - Nov 6 with 0 views | thebeat |
| Shabama Mahmood on 19:41 - Nov 5 by EdwardStone |
I think we can probably agree that trying to resolve a complex arguement like immigration through a binary yes/no referendum is a pretty dangerous idea
The Brexit referendum has soured our society for a generation: I cannot conceive that any good could come from allowing Farage and other bad faith bigots the opportunity to whip the unthinking GBP ( Great British Public) into an further bout of jingoistic nonsense and nationallistic gussett moistening.
I usually like your contributions Mr J2; despite your name sounding like an expensive soft drink, you usually talk sense
But a further divisive referendum would be insanity |
This just sounds like you are frightened what the result would be. Put it to a vote, let the country speak democratically. We all know what would happen. | | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 16:03 - Nov 6 with 0 views | Lamp |
| Shabama Mahmood on 15:39 - Nov 6 by thebeat |
This just sounds like you are frightened what the result would be. Put it to a vote, let the country speak democratically. We all know what would happen. |
I suspect all Restore and a significant minority of Reform supporters would be in favour of zero migration and mass deportations which I'm not sure would be on the poll and wouldn't beat controlled immigration with provision for genuine asylum claims anyway |  | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 16:10 - Nov 6 with 0 views | DanTheMan |
| Shabama Mahmood on 16:03 - Nov 6 by Lamp |
I suspect all Restore and a significant minority of Reform supporters would be in favour of zero migration and mass deportations which I'm not sure would be on the poll and wouldn't beat controlled immigration with provision for genuine asylum claims anyway |
Also, because like with Brexit, you can absolutely be for less immigration or whatever but rarely are we presented with what the tradeoffs are.
And they very much exist. |  |
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| Shabama Mahmood on 16:57 - Nov 6 with 0 views | DJR |
| Shabama Mahmood on 15:39 - Nov 6 by thebeat |
This just sounds like you are frightened what the result would be. Put it to a vote, let the country speak democratically. We all know what would happen. |
If one assumes that all Tory, Reform and Restore voters want tougher restrictions than exist or are proposed (and that may not be the case for all Tory voters), it is interesting to note that it has been the case for some time that their combined vote is less than that of what might be called the "progressive" parties (Labour, Greens, Lib Dems, Plaid, SNP).
Putting it another way, the 52% Brexit majority no long seems to exist.
So it is not clear to me that the result would be the slam dunk you suggest. | | | |
| Shabama Mahmood on 17:27 - Nov 6 with 0 views | EdwardStone |
| Shabama Mahmood on 15:39 - Nov 6 by thebeat |
This just sounds like you are frightened what the result would be. Put it to a vote, let the country speak democratically. We all know what would happen. |
I think the result would be a resounding victory for those who dislike foreigners and who wish that it was still 1957
The Brexit vote proved that you simply cannot hold a referendum with a simple binary yes/no question to try to resolve a very complicated and nuanced issue
There are issues that are more pressing than immigration..... food security, climate change, housing and cost of living spring to mind.
It would be good if we could reduce some of the heat and anger of the immigration question
A referendum would simply solve nothing and yet also make everything worse, the temu flag shagging plastic patriots would be having a field day | | | |
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