| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" 14:03 - Sep 17 with 5203 views | BrixtonBlue |
but I'd have liked one of them to say something along the lines of,
"The passing in the last two games hasn't been of as high a standard as previously. Is this a consequence of players losing confidence and wanting to just get rid of the ball, is it due to different personnel brought into the team after the loan window and needing time for the team to gel with these new players, or something that's come about tactically as you've tried to change things to get that first win? There are suggestions, which you allude to yourself, that despite not winning, the football was good, and that seems to have stalled somewhat in the last two games. Can you put your finger on why?"
Quite a long-winded question now I look at it, but I'm trying to tiptoe round suggesting he panicked and changed his philosophy. But I'd have liked one of the journos to have put something like this to him. |  |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 14:06 - Sep 17 with 3901 views | homer_123 |
The issue Brixton is that the quality prior to Saturdays game wasn't of high quality. It wasn't against Norwich as we pretty much hit Walters with longer balls.
Before that, for most games we only really had decent passing for short spells in those games.
So, whilst Saturday saw more reliance on direct football, the actually quality of the football before Saturday wasn't that great. |  |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 14:27 - Sep 17 with 3857 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 14:06 - Sep 17 by homer_123 |
The issue Brixton is that the quality prior to Saturdays game wasn't of high quality. It wasn't against Norwich as we pretty much hit Walters with longer balls.
Before that, for most games we only really had decent passing for short spells in those games.
So, whilst Saturday saw more reliance on direct football, the actually quality of the football before Saturday wasn't that great. |
I've talked about the last TWO games not being as good, so I've included Norwich in that (not just Saturday). I think those two were a lot poorer than the rest, from what I've seen. | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 14:31 - Sep 17 with 3832 views | m14_blue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 14:27 - Sep 17 by BrixtonBlue |
I've talked about the last TWO games not being as good, so I've included Norwich in that (not just Saturday). I think those two were a lot poorer than the rest, from what I've seen. |
Yes, obviously we weren't amazing in the early games either but I think there's been a clear departure from that approach in the last 2 games. |  | | |
| on 15:31 - Sep 17 with 3762 views | _ |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 15:36 - Sep 17 with 3744 views | Steve_M |
[thread to now continue for 98 pages] |  |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:01 - Sep 17 with 3731 views | PhilTWTD |
I don't really think there's any sign of panic from the management, he was asked last week whether he would change the approach to get a result and he said no and I don't think there has been any change or panic. I think on Saturday there were signs of a lack of confidence after the early goal went in, players not wanting to take responsibility etc, which was what I was asking about at the end of the press conference. |  | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 16:24 - Sep 17 with 3679 views | Bluefish |
I think even Donald trump falls into that category possibly Bulbeck as well |  |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 16:46 - Sep 17 with 3653 views | BrixtonBlue |
Not like you to have a dig at me. But apparently it's me that causes arguments.
Just can't help yourself can you? | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:49 - Sep 17 with 3648 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:01 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
I don't really think there's any sign of panic from the management, he was asked last week whether he would change the approach to get a result and he said no and I don't think there has been any change or panic. I think on Saturday there were signs of a lack of confidence after the early goal went in, players not wanting to take responsibility etc, which was what I was asking about at the end of the press conference. |
Fair enough. I, and several others on here, think the football's been worse the last two games, but if you don't then I wouldn't expect you to ask the question.
I couldn't hear most of what you were asking. Going deaf in my old age. | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 16:51 - Sep 17 with 3643 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 16:24 - Sep 17 by Bluefish |
I think even Donald trump falls into that category possibly Bulbeck as well |
The irony in you only posting this to provoke confrontation isn't lost on me. | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:57 - Sep 17 with 3637 views | m14_blue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:01 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
I don't really think there's any sign of panic from the management, he was asked last week whether he would change the approach to get a result and he said no and I don't think there has been any change or panic. I think on Saturday there were signs of a lack of confidence after the early goal went in, players not wanting to take responsibility etc, which was what I was asking about at the end of the press conference. |
Interesting, I thought we went long far more often against Norwich, so noticeably that i assumed it was planned.
As you say, it was hard to discern the plan on Saturday as the early goal seemed to knock the stuffing out of us right from the get go. | | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 17:12 - Sep 17 with 3608 views | PhilTWTD |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:49 - Sep 17 by BrixtonBlue |
Fair enough. I, and several others on here, think the football's been worse the last two games, but if you don't then I wouldn't expect you to ask the question.
I couldn't hear most of what you were asking. Going deaf in my old age. |
The football might have been worse against Hull certainly, but I very much doubt that was by design, other than perhaps if there was a situation where it was felt a particular opposition defence was susceptible to high balls.
But I think confidence and self-belief were more the issues at Hull. Thought we played well in spells, particularly after the break, against Norwich but other than that it was a generally scruffy derby-type match. | | | |
| on 17:14 - Sep 17 with 3593 views | _ |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 16:46 - Sep 17 by BrixtonBlue |
Not like you to have a dig at me. But apparently it's me that causes arguments.
Just can't help yourself can you? |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 17:21 - Sep 17 with 3573 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 17:12 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
The football might have been worse against Hull certainly, but I very much doubt that was by design, other than perhaps if there was a situation where it was felt a particular opposition defence was susceptible to high balls.
But I think confidence and self-belief were more the issues at Hull. Thought we played well in spells, particularly after the break, against Norwich but other than that it was a generally scruffy derby-type match. |
Seemed to me that Hurst abandoned his ideals against Norwich expecting a scruffy derby and tried to make us more effective, which worked with 18 shots on goal.
Saturday I think in hindsight he got it completely wrong, but you can see why, with 18 goal attempts in the last game against 24 or so in the previous 5 games combined why he thought that system / selection might be able to grind out the first win that would give us some confidence to get back to 'the plan'.
Unfortunately conceding so early against a team as bad as us recently rocked us for half an hour before we got our heads together.
Tomorrow will be very interesting. Brentford are essentially a much better version of what we would probably be if we got it right. Not so sure Hurst will go like for like so we may have to continue with what we've been doing in the last two matches, even thought it's far removed from what we presumably want to ideally work towards. | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 17:37 - Sep 17 with 3539 views | christiand |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 16:01 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
I don't really think there's any sign of panic from the management, he was asked last week whether he would change the approach to get a result and he said no and I don't think there has been any change or panic. I think on Saturday there were signs of a lack of confidence after the early goal went in, players not wanting to take responsibility etc, which was what I was asking about at the end of the press conference. |
Come on Phil, the Norwich and Hull games the football has been far more direct. At least in the earlier games they were trying to play some football. That approach now seems like that has been abandoned. JW is certainly not a target man, but would like to see him in a wide role like we used him during his first spell with us and Edwards on the other flank. We’ve just reverted to hitting long, hopeful balls for a 34 year old to battle for or chase on his own. You don't really need a UEFA coaching badge to adopt that approach. A dad coaching on the touchline on a Sunday morning could do the very same. Would love you to ask him why he constantly keeps changing the formation and personnel? Do you not know you best starting XI PH? To me, those actions alone is a reflection of a man that is having doubts. [Post edited 17 Sep 2018 17:38]
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 17:48 - Sep 17 with 3516 views | PhilTWTD |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 17:37 - Sep 17 by christiand |
Come on Phil, the Norwich and Hull games the football has been far more direct. At least in the earlier games they were trying to play some football. That approach now seems like that has been abandoned. JW is certainly not a target man, but would like to see him in a wide role like we used him during his first spell with us and Edwards on the other flank. We’ve just reverted to hitting long, hopeful balls for a 34 year old to battle for or chase on his own. You don't really need a UEFA coaching badge to adopt that approach. A dad coaching on the touchline on a Sunday morning could do the very same. Would love you to ask him why he constantly keeps changing the formation and personnel? Do you not know you best starting XI PH? To me, those actions alone is a reflection of a man that is having doubts. [Post edited 17 Sep 2018 17:38]
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I really don't think that's been the intention and didn't think we got the ball forward hardly at all on Saturday for long spells via long or short balls. We were just poor. Think Walters is more than capable of being a target man, he was playing in that role when we bought him the first time, not one to chase balls into space though at 34.
Think when games develop as Saturday's did and there's a general lack of confidence there's a tendency just to get rid of the ball rather than move it in a more measured manner, which was what I was getting at when I was talking about being braver on the ball.
System-wise, it's been variations on the same 4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1 so I don't really see there's been too much change there and personnel-wise, you expect changes - albeit only once there's been a large number of changes - when you're looking to get a result. If the same team had continued to be picked with the team not winning then I think that would be criticised. | | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:05 - Sep 17 with 3480 views | SomethingBlue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 17:48 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
I really don't think that's been the intention and didn't think we got the ball forward hardly at all on Saturday for long spells via long or short balls. We were just poor. Think Walters is more than capable of being a target man, he was playing in that role when we bought him the first time, not one to chase balls into space though at 34.
Think when games develop as Saturday's did and there's a general lack of confidence there's a tendency just to get rid of the ball rather than move it in a more measured manner, which was what I was getting at when I was talking about being braver on the ball.
System-wise, it's been variations on the same 4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1 so I don't really see there's been too much change there and personnel-wise, you expect changes - albeit only once there's been a large number of changes - when you're looking to get a result. If the same team had continued to be picked with the team not winning then I think that would be criticised. |
I think one thing though is that with Walters up top like that you can't really, at his age and with his match-fitness, play the high-pressing game that was advertised to anything like the extent required. Walters playing around Jackson or Harrison is one thing but Saturday's lineup rang an alarm bell with me from the off. | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:17 - Sep 17 with 3454 views | PhilTWTD |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:05 - Sep 17 by SomethingBlue |
I think one thing though is that with Walters up top like that you can't really, at his age and with his match-fitness, play the high-pressing game that was advertised to anything like the extent required. Walters playing around Jackson or Harrison is one thing but Saturday's lineup rang an alarm bell with me from the off. |
Fair point, and I was surprised by the one change there was as I thought the XI against Norwich worked well. Presumably, the idea was to have three deeper midfielders, as opposed to Walters who was virtually a second striker against Norwich.
Thought the personnel ought to have changed at half-time, if not the system as Downes didn't really recover from the error, although he wasn't the only one who was very much under par.
I suppose Walters as the lone striker was as he was likely to make more of an impression than the two new signings. As it was, he was left very isolated. | | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 18:18 - Sep 17 with 3447 views | PhilTWTD |
| Obviously no journalist will ask "have you panicked?" on 17:21 - Sep 17 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Seemed to me that Hurst abandoned his ideals against Norwich expecting a scruffy derby and tried to make us more effective, which worked with 18 shots on goal.
Saturday I think in hindsight he got it completely wrong, but you can see why, with 18 goal attempts in the last game against 24 or so in the previous 5 games combined why he thought that system / selection might be able to grind out the first win that would give us some confidence to get back to 'the plan'.
Unfortunately conceding so early against a team as bad as us recently rocked us for half an hour before we got our heads together.
Tomorrow will be very interesting. Brentford are essentially a much better version of what we would probably be if we got it right. Not so sure Hurst will go like for like so we may have to continue with what we've been doing in the last two matches, even thought it's far removed from what we presumably want to ideally work towards. |
I thought the same re Brentford being the team Hurst aspires us to be. Also thought Hull did to us to some extent what we ideally should have been doing to them re a high press not allowing us to settle. | | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:24 - Sep 17 with 3434 views | christiand |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 17:48 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
I really don't think that's been the intention and didn't think we got the ball forward hardly at all on Saturday for long spells via long or short balls. We were just poor. Think Walters is more than capable of being a target man, he was playing in that role when we bought him the first time, not one to chase balls into space though at 34.
Think when games develop as Saturday's did and there's a general lack of confidence there's a tendency just to get rid of the ball rather than move it in a more measured manner, which was what I was getting at when I was talking about being braver on the ball.
System-wise, it's been variations on the same 4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1 so I don't really see there's been too much change there and personnel-wise, you expect changes - albeit only once there's been a large number of changes - when you're looking to get a result. If the same team had continued to be picked with the team not winning then I think that would be criticised. |
Too much change for me Phil in such a short space of time, that’s not a manager that is standing by his convictions and beliefs. If the system is not working, he needs to coach the squad so it does. After all, he’s brought in a lot of these players, they are ‘HIS’ signings. For all JW’s qualities, he’s not really a target man IMO, but very effective coming in from the wing. I think someone posted PH has already used 25 plus players in 7 league games, that’s simply ludicrous! Some teams don’t even use that amount in a full season. His selections recently has been very scattergun, which must be unsettling for the squad? I know your responses are more diplomatic and measured than mine though Phil! | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:41 - Sep 17 with 3394 views | PhilTWTD |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:24 - Sep 17 by christiand |
Too much change for me Phil in such a short space of time, that’s not a manager that is standing by his convictions and beliefs. If the system is not working, he needs to coach the squad so it does. After all, he’s brought in a lot of these players, they are ‘HIS’ signings. For all JW’s qualities, he’s not really a target man IMO, but very effective coming in from the wing. I think someone posted PH has already used 25 plus players in 7 league games, that’s simply ludicrous! Some teams don’t even use that amount in a full season. His selections recently has been very scattergun, which must be unsettling for the squad? I know your responses are more diplomatic and measured than mine though Phil! |
I really don't think there's been anything other than tweaking to the system and the aim is to instil it more and more into the players on the training field. It's worked to varying degrees in the games so far - and to varying degrees within games - but so far without yielding a win, of course. If anything the argument for a switch to a different system probably grows stronger the longer the winless run continues.
I really wouldn't consider the selections scattergun, one or two changes for the most part apart from the derby. No comparison with Roy Keane's time here certainly! | | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 19:02 - Sep 17 with 3353 views | Dubtractor |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 18:41 - Sep 17 by PhilTWTD |
I really don't think there's been anything other than tweaking to the system and the aim is to instil it more and more into the players on the training field. It's worked to varying degrees in the games so far - and to varying degrees within games - but so far without yielding a win, of course. If anything the argument for a switch to a different system probably grows stronger the longer the winless run continues.
I really wouldn't consider the selections scattergun, one or two changes for the most part apart from the derby. No comparison with Roy Keane's time here certainly! |
Got to be honest, I'm surprised by the level of upset about team selections/changes. For the most part it has been one or 2 changes each time rather than wholesale, and mostly you can see a rationale for them.
Amuses me that a couple of weeks ago Edun shouldn't be here, and we should be playing our youths, and now people are wondering why Edun has been dropped and claiming Downes isn't up to it.
Of course, it isn't all the same people making the points, but there is a theme there.
None of this escapes the fact that results simply aren't good enough though! |  |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 19:10 - Sep 17 with 3331 views | christiand |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 19:02 - Sep 17 by Dubtractor |
Got to be honest, I'm surprised by the level of upset about team selections/changes. For the most part it has been one or 2 changes each time rather than wholesale, and mostly you can see a rationale for them.
Amuses me that a couple of weeks ago Edun shouldn't be here, and we should be playing our youths, and now people are wondering why Edun has been dropped and claiming Downes isn't up to it.
Of course, it isn't all the same people making the points, but there is a theme there.
None of this escapes the fact that results simply aren't good enough though! |
By this point, managers know their best XI and preferred formation, hand on heart I really don’t think PH does - look at the continual changes - which is a concern. I’m also struggling to see what he is trying achieve. At the beginning of season it was clearer, now it seems far more clouded. It’ll be interesting to see the team selected for tomorrow night’s match against Brentford. I’m expecting more changes and a likely change of formation. | |
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| Obviously no journalist will ask on 19:44 - Sep 17 with 3297 views | PhilTWTD |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 19:02 - Sep 17 by Dubtractor |
Got to be honest, I'm surprised by the level of upset about team selections/changes. For the most part it has been one or 2 changes each time rather than wholesale, and mostly you can see a rationale for them.
Amuses me that a couple of weeks ago Edun shouldn't be here, and we should be playing our youths, and now people are wondering why Edun has been dropped and claiming Downes isn't up to it.
Of course, it isn't all the same people making the points, but there is a theme there.
None of this escapes the fact that results simply aren't good enough though! |
I can see why Edun might be seen as harshly overlooked, thought he did well in the games he played (although I don't think the other PH was quite so impressed from some of his post-match comments), but agree there haven't been wholesale changes aside from the Norwich match and one or two switches of personnel is no surprise given the lack of a win (and a couple of red cards, of course). | | | |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 20:15 - Sep 17 with 3230 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Obviously no journalist will ask on 19:02 - Sep 17 by Dubtractor |
Got to be honest, I'm surprised by the level of upset about team selections/changes. For the most part it has been one or 2 changes each time rather than wholesale, and mostly you can see a rationale for them.
Amuses me that a couple of weeks ago Edun shouldn't be here, and we should be playing our youths, and now people are wondering why Edun has been dropped and claiming Downes isn't up to it.
Of course, it isn't all the same people making the points, but there is a theme there.
None of this escapes the fact that results simply aren't good enough though! |
It's been a lot more than one or two though. The goalkeepers have swapped, Donacian's disappeared, the Everton chap has come in (albeit that one was enforced), we've had Graham and Walters come in, Edun and Chalobah go out...
How is that "one or two"? | |
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