| The state of football!!! 20:25 - Sep 25 with 2914 views | Terry_Nutkins |
Chelsea have 40 players out on loan. Just let that sink in. Discuss. |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 20:26 - Sep 25 with 2906 views | SpruceMoose |
How do they even keep track of them? That's so many that one or two could be sent out to far flung corners of the world and just get forgotten about! |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 20:30 - Sep 25 with 2894 views | Basuco |
It is a way of making more money, get players in coach them up and sell at a profit. It doesn't matter if they are not good enough for the first team, they can be sold to other Prem clubs or EFL clubs, they are mostly there just to be sold on. Simples. [Post edited 25 Sep 2018 20:34]
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| The state of football!!! on 20:32 - Sep 25 with 2887 views | Hipsterectomy |
You can make a starting 11 just on players on loan to the Chump with some left over
Jamal Blackman - Leeds
Michael Hector - Wed
Tomas Kalas - Bristol City
Todd Kane - Hull City
Chalobah
Reece James - Wigan
Jay Dasilva - Bristol City
Fikayo Tomori - Derby
Lewis Baker - Leeds
Kasey Palmer - Blackburn
Mason Mount - Derby
Izzy Brown - Leeds
Tammy Abraham - Villa |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 20:39 - Sep 25 with 2858 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| The state of football!!! on 20:30 - Sep 25 by Basuco |
It is a way of making more money, get players in coach them up and sell at a profit. It doesn't matter if they are not good enough for the first team, they can be sold to other Prem clubs or EFL clubs, they are mostly there just to be sold on. Simples. [Post edited 25 Sep 2018 20:34]
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Its disgusting. Stockpiling in case some work out well. As you say profit on the rest.
I only read this today because Fifa are looking to stop it. Max 6 loans out being proposed. If it does stop them stockpiling it could have a big impact on 2nd tier i would have thought. | |
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| The state of football!!! on 20:46 - Sep 25 with 2829 views | Bluefish |
| The state of football!!! on 20:39 - Sep 25 by Terry_Nutkins |
Its disgusting. Stockpiling in case some work out well. As you say profit on the rest.
I only read this today because Fifa are looking to stop it. Max 6 loans out being proposed. If it does stop them stockpiling it could have a big impact on 2nd tier i would have thought. |
They would just turn them into sales with buybacks instead |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 20:52 - Sep 25 with 2805 views | WD19 |
A few years back Parma had 226 players on their books. Its not a new thing. |  | | |
| The state of football!!! on 21:11 - Sep 25 with 2758 views | hoppy |
Good to hear they’re reducing it then... used to be a lot more, I’m sure. |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 21:12 - Sep 25 with 2753 views | Bluefish |
| The state of football!!! on 20:52 - Sep 25 by WD19 |
A few years back Parma had 226 players on their books. Its not a new thing. |
They also went bust didn't they? Not necessarily as a result of that though | |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:14 - Sep 26 with 2566 views | Radlett_blue |
| The state of football!!! on 20:39 - Sep 25 by Terry_Nutkins |
Its disgusting. Stockpiling in case some work out well. As you say profit on the rest.
I only read this today because Fifa are looking to stop it. Max 6 loans out being proposed. If it does stop them stockpiling it could have a big impact on 2nd tier i would have thought. |
They should ban loans, pure & simple. Then, clubs would change their behaviour & be less inclined to stockpile players & young players would think twice about signing for a big club as they know they'd be unlikely to get a game. |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:19 - Sep 26 with 2553 views | itfcjoe |
| The state of football!!! on 20:39 - Sep 25 by Terry_Nutkins |
Its disgusting. Stockpiling in case some work out well. As you say profit on the rest.
I only read this today because Fifa are looking to stop it. Max 6 loans out being proposed. If it does stop them stockpiling it could have a big impact on 2nd tier i would have thought. |
The problem is also now, that Chelsea are producing the countires best youth players - de-incentivise that and the England teams begin to suffer.
I think the rule needs to be written sensibly - something along the lines of you can only loan out youth players that have come through the academy or similar.
The biggest issue is signing players, sending them out on loan and selling them for a profit when they only have spent a few days at the club over the years they are there. |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:20 - Sep 26 with 2546 views | No9 |
Ridiculous but that is what the PL & TV football have created while he FA stood by and watched.
It may well kill football as we used to know it | | | |
| The state of football!!! on 09:22 - Sep 26 with 2545 views | Radlett_blue |
| The state of football!!! on 09:19 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
The problem is also now, that Chelsea are producing the countires best youth players - de-incentivise that and the England teams begin to suffer.
I think the rule needs to be written sensibly - something along the lines of you can only loan out youth players that have come through the academy or similar.
The biggest issue is signing players, sending them out on loan and selling them for a profit when they only have spent a few days at the club over the years they are there. |
Agreed, Joe, but do clubs like Chelsea really make money out of this policy? Running an academy & paying presumably high wages to a huge number of players, a handful of whom are good enough to be sold on at a profit? | |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:33 - Sep 26 with 2522 views | No9 |
| The state of football!!! on 09:19 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
The problem is also now, that Chelsea are producing the countires best youth players - de-incentivise that and the England teams begin to suffer.
I think the rule needs to be written sensibly - something along the lines of you can only loan out youth players that have come through the academy or similar.
The biggest issue is signing players, sending them out on loan and selling them for a profit when they only have spent a few days at the club over the years they are there. |
Gareth Southgate would seem to disagree with yout theory Joe.
He is saying not enough players are making it
That is apparent and England will soon have to look to the lower leagues for an England team OR Chelsea benchers? | | | |
| The state of football!!! on 09:41 - Sep 26 with 2503 views | itfcjoe |
| The state of football!!! on 09:22 - Sep 26 by Radlett_blue |
Agreed, Joe, but do clubs like Chelsea really make money out of this policy? Running an academy & paying presumably high wages to a huge number of players, a handful of whom are good enough to be sold on at a profit? |
I think on the whole they do - these players attract large loan fees also and if any make it the values are astronomical.
Look at someone like Thibaut Courtois - signed for £5m, massive loan fees recouped straight away and then number 1 keeper then massive sale. But more interestingly someone like Patrick Bamford - signed for a few £100k, loads of loan fees recouped, reportedly of £1m by the end and sold for £6m. Never was he a Chelsea player, played 23 games at U18 and U21 level over the 7 seasons he was at the club.
A changed loan system will lead to feeder clubs, B teams and buy back clauses being mandatory - very important that you don't let the genie out of the bottle. The loan system needs sorting, but beware of unintended consequences - the bgi clubs will always a find a way round it and clubs our size will be punished somehow | |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:45 - Sep 26 with 2484 views | itfcjoe |
| The state of football!!! on 09:33 - Sep 26 by No9 |
Gareth Southgate would seem to disagree with yout theory Joe.
He is saying not enough players are making it
That is apparent and England will soon have to look to the lower leagues for an England team OR Chelsea benchers? |
We are producing fine players, probably the best in Europe up to age 19 or so - but then their development hits a brick wall with pathways to the first team.
The loan system is probably not doing a bad job for England in this respect, and I'd advocate smaller squad sizes and less pros above a certain age on the books - that way players will find their natural level sooner and cream can rise to the top | |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:52 - Sep 26 with 2468 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Is it 2012 again? |  |
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| The state of football!!! on 09:52 - Sep 26 with 2467 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| The state of football!!! on 20:26 - Sep 25 by SpruceMoose |
How do they even keep track of them? That's so many that one or two could be sent out to far flung corners of the world and just get forgotten about! |
They have a WhatsApp group
Genuinely | |
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| The state of football!!! on 10:27 - Sep 26 with 2423 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Ipswich have one of them. Loaning six in and five out. Only if 'smaller clubs' stop this insane self harm taking in players from other clubs that will be sold on to their competitors whilst stunting development of their own players (a double whammy of self harm) will it stop. It's completely the fault of the clubs who self harm. You cant blame the likes of Chelski for taking advantage of such idiocy AND earning hard cash. | |
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| The state of football!!! on 11:30 - Sep 26 with 2366 views | Radlett_blue |
| The state of football!!! on 10:27 - Sep 26 by ElephantintheRoom |
Ipswich have one of them. Loaning six in and five out. Only if 'smaller clubs' stop this insane self harm taking in players from other clubs that will be sold on to their competitors whilst stunting development of their own players (a double whammy of self harm) will it stop. It's completely the fault of the clubs who self harm. You cant blame the likes of Chelski for taking advantage of such idiocy AND earning hard cash. |
Your point is valid, but if you are Hurst (or any other manager) with a limited budget & can get loan players in who are better than your youngsters, you are very motivated to do so. | |
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| The state of football!!! on 12:05 - Sep 26 with 2331 views | BecclesITFC |
Wasn't it AVB who said top clubs need filter clubs in lower leagues. Looks like it's happening. |  | | |
| The state of football!!! on 12:20 - Sep 26 with 2303 views | Ace_High1 |
| The state of football!!! on 09:45 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
We are producing fine players, probably the best in Europe up to age 19 or so - but then their development hits a brick wall with pathways to the first team.
The loan system is probably not doing a bad job for England in this respect, and I'd advocate smaller squad sizes and less pros above a certain age on the books - that way players will find their natural level sooner and cream can rise to the top |
Agree, there are a few different issues.
Firstly the loan system is not right. For clubs such as ourselves I don't see why we should be able to sign numerous experienced players on loan - this encourages Premier League teams to keep large squads knowing they can send them out and make some money. I would like to see a system whereby clubs are encouraged (via the rules) to have a squad of no more than say 20-22 senior players, (no loans allowed in the Premier League) and then the remaining places have to be Academy players. Some of the clubs these days have 30+ senior players on the books with some never going to play.
In the Championship you should be able to loan one senior pro (anyone above under 23's/Academy level on a professional contact) a season. That way it is just used to either address a problem position (a team that cannot score goals, or needs a keeper etc) or to get that one piece of quality that otherwise you would never afford - example such as Fraser etc for us.
Outside of that the only loans should be for young players to give them game time down the leagues - it needs a cap still to stop the likes of Chelsea having many out on loan.
When clubs have smaller squads they are forced into giving younger players a game when others lose form, get injured etc and this is how some of the best young players make a break through. Remember a certain Rashford at Man Utd getting a chance from no where and suddenly making an impression? |  | | |
| The state of football!!! on 12:34 - Sep 26 with 2281 views | itfcjoe |
| The state of football!!! on 12:20 - Sep 26 by Ace_High1 |
Agree, there are a few different issues.
Firstly the loan system is not right. For clubs such as ourselves I don't see why we should be able to sign numerous experienced players on loan - this encourages Premier League teams to keep large squads knowing they can send them out and make some money. I would like to see a system whereby clubs are encouraged (via the rules) to have a squad of no more than say 20-22 senior players, (no loans allowed in the Premier League) and then the remaining places have to be Academy players. Some of the clubs these days have 30+ senior players on the books with some never going to play.
In the Championship you should be able to loan one senior pro (anyone above under 23's/Academy level on a professional contact) a season. That way it is just used to either address a problem position (a team that cannot score goals, or needs a keeper etc) or to get that one piece of quality that otherwise you would never afford - example such as Fraser etc for us.
Outside of that the only loans should be for young players to give them game time down the leagues - it needs a cap still to stop the likes of Chelsea having many out on loan.
When clubs have smaller squads they are forced into giving younger players a game when others lose form, get injured etc and this is how some of the best young players make a break through. Remember a certain Rashford at Man Utd getting a chance from no where and suddenly making an impression? |
The problem is every solution seems to bring with it 5 other problems.
I think one of the issues is there are limits to squad sizes in place, but if players are outside this squad they are allowed to be loaned out so it doesn't matter and no real punishment | |
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