| This really isn't working is it? 08:12 - Oct 3 with 6852 views | itfcjoe |
Hurst is totally out of depth - not helped by Evans giving him a free reign and seemingly little day to day involvement I hasten to add.
But time to draw a line under it and move on - the only thing worse than making a bad appointment is not realising sooner enough and prolonging the agony.
Maybe this club is too big for a rookie, when the manager has such a big remit and no support from above? |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:16 - Oct 3 with 3691 views | textbackup |
said it before, the club either needs an experienced manager to control everything, or a DoF with a Hurst working under him.
Evans is too far removed from the daily running of club to allow a younger guy to come in and do as he pleases.
if hurst goes, or should I say when, ive no idea where ME goes next. people calling for burley and butcher ffs, do me a favour |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:16 - Oct 3 with 3682 views | DanTheMan |
I really hope this has taught Evans that we need a more modern structure.
It's a fools hope, but still.
DoF please. [Post edited 3 Oct 2018 8:17]
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:18 - Oct 3 with 3659 views | ITFCBlues |
Rookie? He’s plenty of experience & League One manager of the year last season. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:19 - Oct 3 with 3646 views | Bluebell |
Does ME have any advisers to help him select managers? I can't imagine he does it all himself.
If it's Milne then I can see why it is happening! |  | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:20 - Oct 3 with 3646 views | DanTheMan |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:18 - Oct 3 by ITFCBlues |
Rookie? He’s plenty of experience & League One manager of the year last season. |
It's funny looking back at some of the League One manager of the year winners. Massive mixed bag there. | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:21 - Oct 3 with 3618 views | DanTheMan |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:19 - Oct 3 by Bluebell |
Does ME have any advisers to help him select managers? I can't imagine he does it all himself.
If it's Milne then I can see why it is happening! |
He does, quite a few if I recall. On paper Hurst is fine, it's the sheer level of change in such a short time period that has caused this.
If we had been almost relegated last year, I could have understood the radical overhaul but we weren't. We needed evolution but we've gone too far, too quick.
Maybe it'll work out by the end of the year but the signs are not good at all. | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:22 - Oct 3 with 3615 views | LimitlessBlue |
I agree, time to pull the trigger, be a man Marcus and admit that it has just not gone as expected. We are in such a dangerous position, there is nothing good that would come from League 1, nothing.
We were positive about the appointment, positive at the time about the signings albeit a bit worried we had let so many goals go from the team but the time is now to start again and try and stay in this division, I honestly don't see where the points are coming from in abbundance for us to survive as we currently are. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:23 - Oct 3 with 3606 views | Steve_M |
Nope, no signs of progress, no signs of the structure and pressing that Hurst talked about when he joined - unless people still want to cling to isolated 20 minute spells. The players looked more confused about who was doing what than ever, something epitomised by the first goal with Skuse and Chalobah pressing forward and no-one covering the space.
Defensively we're all over the place, we failed to win the first ball from virtually every Birmingham corner on Saturday but then we can't keep the ball forward. A team that can get those bits right should scrape enough narrow wins to get by. We don't look like that at all.
Evans, and the lack of structure at the club, remains a bigger problem, McCarthy masked a lot of that - something that was obvious to those who chose to look properly - but it's now blatant again. A few noises about a five point plan and one 'interview' in eleven years aren't enough on their own.
At least a new manager might tighten things up and reintroduce a sense of purpose to the squad. Might well be too late for this season, for Evans' chances of selling and probably any chance of the club ever seeing the top division again. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:26 - Oct 3 with 3561 views | ITFCBlues |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:21 - Oct 3 by DanTheMan |
He does, quite a few if I recall. On paper Hurst is fine, it's the sheer level of change in such a short time period that has caused this.
If we had been almost relegated last year, I could have understood the radical overhaul but we weren't. We needed evolution but we've gone too far, too quick.
Maybe it'll work out by the end of the year but the signs are not good at all. |
You’re aware that most of the players had their contracts which had ended, right?
It’s debatable if you then want to keep players who want to leave of course... | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:27 - Oct 3 with 3549 views | LankHenners |
Evans could get away with this level of involvement/knowledge with Mick because Mick had been there done that with a drawer full of t-shirts so could generally keep on top of everything and knew exactly what you had to do to survive (and more) on our budget.
Hurst gave the early impression that he was very careful and a very methodical thinker but signing almost a whole new team towards the end of the transfer window (plus having Chalobah missing for almost all of pre-season when it's evident he sees him as a fairly key member of the team [granted that's not his fault but it still causes an issue]) means it was always going to be hard for everyone to gel and get to know each other's games.
Panicking and faffing around with the line-up/system didn't help and now we've had an 'easier' set of games where we've ballsed up and it's very hard to see where the win is coming from.
There's been moments from most of the new signings to show that they've got something about them but chucked in all together it was, partially in hindsight but it wasn't a Nostrodamian prediction to think we might struggle, unlikely to work.
A shame really, but Hurst has been allowed to do too much damage by ripping up a limited but solid squad and putting in too much inexperience. We needed someone (in all reality a proper DoF or similar) to take Hurst to one side and say 'Waghorn wants to leave, but he's too important to us and we can't replace his impact easily or at all on our budget'. Evans needed to be bolder and offer Waghorn better terms to persuade him to stick it out here for a bit. Evans got lucky with Mick and hasn't really learned many lessons at all which has killed us at last. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:34 - Oct 3 with 3518 views | lowhouseblue |
i don't believe evans is going to act anytime soon. sadly therefore i do think we're going down. what hurst has brought in is generally worse than what we had and isn't up to the championship. in so doing he has destroyed the foundations that were already here. his hubris has led him to apply here the plan he had for if shrewsbury went up through the playoffs without taking time to understand what was here already. we now look like the side that sneaked up through the playoffs, who can't cut it at the higher level and are going straight back down. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:36 - Oct 3 with 3499 views | Kev_W |
Yes, Evans is as culpable as Hurst. The idea that you can sell a proven strike force and a key defender to create a transfer pot to buy players untested at Championship level is a mix of naivety and negligence. To try to put together a side with so many new players and loanees is a task that few managers would willingly attempt. Team building is hard as Hurst has now realised. A more patient, measured approach was needed. Fewer sales, fewer loans, fewer purchases. Roll out the plan over 2-3 seasons not 2-3 weeks. Speaking of a plan, it is very clear neither Hurst or Evans have one - hot air from both. |  | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:48 - Oct 3 with 3392 views | GlasgowBlue |
I don't buy the line that he is out of his depth. He came extremely close to becoming a manager in this league with Shrewsbury based purely on merit. So I don't think that is the problem.
What may well be the problem is that like Keane before him, he wanted to stamp his authority on the club and has gone about things in the wrong way, pissing everybody off at the same time.
Add to that, had we won a couple of games early doors he wouldn't have chopped and changed the team out of panic.
Either way, I said give him 10 games. He's had 11 and it's time for him to go. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:48 - Oct 3 with 3393 views | Northern_Blue81 |
Hurst now is walking a very fine line. He will know that, he is not stupid however much he is struggling.
The issue is who do we bring in that is suitable and available?
Bringing in a new manager that has to work with a set of players they are unlikely to know, is that going to set us back even further this season, the new players are mostly from Hurst's contacts. I am sure not many of us had honestly heard of Jackson,Harrison et al before singing for us.
It is a bit of a lose, lose for me. Frying pan into the fire scenario.
At least Hurst knows the players and the players themselves have to step up and put in performances too, regardless of who is charge. That is maybe clutching at straws for a positive as last night was not good, not good at all. |  | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:50 - Oct 3 with 3368 views | DanTheMan |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:26 - Oct 3 by ITFCBlues |
You’re aware that most of the players had their contracts which had ended, right?
It’s debatable if you then want to keep players who want to leave of course... |
You absolutely want to keep them if they are experienced and you lack experienced players. | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 08:51 - Oct 3 with 3363 views | RobTheMonk |
It's got all the makings of a Mick McCarthy salvation job, only we've already played that card. |  | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:04 - Oct 3 with 3293 views | SomethingBlue |
If we lose at Swansea then that's it for me, and I hate saying that really because (as I said last night) with a fair wind I could see Hurst doing well here. But it's only going in one direction and after the international break we have a decent run of fixtures, Leeds apart. It's vital we pull something out of those and we need somebody with the knowhow to make that work before it's too late.
Not particularly sure how successful anyone else would be between now and January, that's my only caveat. We are so thin up front now — scuppered, ironically, by the lack of loan window but also by poor planning and recruitment — that it's hard to see us really doing much. The best hope, whoever is in charge, is to sneak a couple of wins between now and the end of the year ... and then hope Evans will stump up for a salvage operation. | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 09:05 - Oct 3 with 3277 views | Guthrum |
I don't agree with your last sentence. Ipswich is a fairly benign environment for relatively new managers, always has been. However, that will not always work out and there has to be a limit on how far things are allowed to go before a decision is taken. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 09:08 - Oct 3 with 3239 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This really isn't working is it? on 08:34 - Oct 3 by lowhouseblue |
i don't believe evans is going to act anytime soon. sadly therefore i do think we're going down. what hurst has brought in is generally worse than what we had and isn't up to the championship. in so doing he has destroyed the foundations that were already here. his hubris has led him to apply here the plan he had for if shrewsbury went up through the playoffs without taking time to understand what was here already. we now look like the side that sneaked up through the playoffs, who can't cut it at the higher level and are going straight back down. |
You last line says it all IMO. Hurst seems to have approached recruitment as if he was still at Shrewsbury and planning a promotion campaign from League One to the Championship.
Most of the players he has recruited seem to have been on his wish list for some time.
Has he underestimated the quality of the Championship? | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 09:12 - Oct 3 with 3218 views | Jimmy86 |
Hurst can't legislate for experienced championship players making such school boy mistakes, like Chambo did last night though can he?
He's trying to implement a better style of football and maybe some of the players we have just aren't capable of playing that way. | | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:13 - Oct 3 with 3191 views | DanTheMan |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:12 - Oct 3 by Jimmy86 |
Hurst can't legislate for experienced championship players making such school boy mistakes, like Chambo did last night though can he?
He's trying to implement a better style of football and maybe some of the players we have just aren't capable of playing that way. |
Then why try and force them? | |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 09:17 - Oct 3 with 3158 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:12 - Oct 3 by Jimmy86 |
Hurst can't legislate for experienced championship players making such school boy mistakes, like Chambo did last night though can he?
He's trying to implement a better style of football and maybe some of the players we have just aren't capable of playing that way. |
It's a moot point when none of the players he brought in look any more capable of it.
I do think the system is the problem here - but whether that's because it's not right or we're not implementing it I don't know.
At the heart of my confusion and lack of a solution, I just don't know what we're even trying to do. |  |
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| This really isn't working is it? on 09:18 - Oct 3 with 3147 views | Kev_W |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:08 - Oct 3 by GlasgowBlue |
You last line says it all IMO. Hurst seems to have approached recruitment as if he was still at Shrewsbury and planning a promotion campaign from League One to the Championship.
Most of the players he has recruited seem to have been on his wish list for some time.
Has he underestimated the quality of the Championship? |
I think he has underestimated the Championship and his desire to make a mark has led him to some errors of judgment on player ability. Even a mid table Championship side needs to have a core of genuinely strong players - former Premiership squad/fringe players, experienced Championship types or the genuinely promising young players. Hurst has stripped the team of almost everyone in those categories and replaced them with a set of players who may be just about capable of playing in the Championship but who will never stand out. | | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:19 - Oct 3 with 3134 views | PJH |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:13 - Oct 3 by DanTheMan |
Then why try and force them? |
Very true.
Why weaken the overall strength of a team by insisting on players that are very capable and confident playing a certain way trying to play in a way that they are not capable and confident?
The alternatives are either not to play them at all(but who do you replace them with?)or allow them to play the way that they are comfortable playing. |  | | |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:19 - Oct 3 with 3134 views | Jimmy86 |
| This really isn't working is it? on 09:13 - Oct 3 by DanTheMan |
Then why try and force them? |
Coz 1 of the main gripe with Mick's tenure was style of play and entertainment value? Yes it's a results business, but also an entertainment business.
Admittedly under Mick we weren't ever in this position | | | |
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