| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. 17:36 - May 12 with 3644 views | tractordownsouth |
Really smart move in my view. To some voters, he still has to shake of the tag of being an ardent remainer, so he won't want to be seen as wanting to stop us leaving for good at the end of the year. Instead, he knows the Johnson won't be able to negotiate a full deal by the end of the year, so he's essentially forcing the Tories to choose between no deal and economic chaos or breaking their main election pledge.
Good ratings for Starmer from YouGov here, now level with Johnson. Interestingly, a +10 net approval among leave voters.
[Post edited 12 May 2020 17:36]
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:36 - May 12 with 2781 views | Darth_Koont |
It has begun ... |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:55 - May 12 with 2676 views | GlasgowBlue |
It's very good politically but surely it's putting politics before principle?
If the Tories don't blink and we do crash out then he will have put politics before what he surely believes is best for the country.
The political anorak in me can only admire this move. |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:56 - May 12 with 2678 views | Pinewoodblue |
The key date isn’t 31st December it is 1st July.
The terms of the withdrawal agreement state that the transition period can only be extended if both parties agree, by 30th June, that extension is appropriate and agree on the length of the extension.
Realistically the chances of both sides being prepared to compromise are Zero. |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:58 - May 12 with 2667 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:55 - May 12 by GlasgowBlue |
It's very good politically but surely it's putting politics before principle?
If the Tories don't blink and we do crash out then he will have put politics before what he surely believes is best for the country.
The political anorak in me can only admire this move. |
Quite. I'd just like to know what someone actually believes in, but then I'm simple like that. |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:59 - May 12 with 2651 views | tractordownsouth |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:55 - May 12 by GlasgowBlue |
It's very good politically but surely it's putting politics before principle?
If the Tories don't blink and we do crash out then he will have put politics before what he surely believes is best for the country.
The political anorak in me can only admire this move. |
I don't think it is, because the Tories have such a large majority that Labour's votes won't actually affect the final outcome. If we were in hung parliament territory, it'd be a different story. He's essentially leaving the Tories to own their sh*t, which they haven't done since the process started. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:59 - May 12 with 2652 views | BlueBadger |
Sadly, I fear people are going to have to see it become an utter cluster*ck before they actually realise they've been conned.
But the match day experience will have been much much better whilst it's happening. |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 18:13 - May 12 with 2576 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:59 - May 12 by BlueBadger |
Sadly, I fear people are going to have to see it become an utter cluster*ck before they actually realise they've been conned.
But the match day experience will have been much much better whilst it's happening. |
Crikey! I'm wary of Starmer but give him a chance FFS. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 18:42 - May 12 with 2519 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 17:55 - May 12 by GlasgowBlue |
It's very good politically but surely it's putting politics before principle?
If the Tories don't blink and we do crash out then he will have put politics before what he surely believes is best for the country.
The political anorak in me can only admire this move. |
It puts the ball back in the Tories court, otherwise they just have to keep saying we won’t delay etc, now they have up focus on the deal and not the message in the media about getting it done |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:06 - May 12 with 2395 views | BloomBlue |
So he's saying we should go with a no deal then if no deal is agreed, basically the same as Boris. |  | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:14 - May 12 with 2359 views | jeera |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:06 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
So he's saying we should go with a no deal then if no deal is agreed, basically the same as Boris. |
I think he's saying 'You made your bed, you lie on it'. |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:25 - May 12 with 2329 views | BloomBlue |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:14 - May 12 by jeera |
I think he's saying 'You made your bed, you lie on it'. |
Wouldn't it be better if said what he believes is correct, ie either say extend or say dont extend and go with no deal if we cannot get a deal. If he's not careful it will start to look like he is trying to please all and end up pleasing no one, a fence sitter. As a PM you have to make decisions even difficult ones.
I thought he had made a good start as Leader, but the last thing he wants is the fence sitting tag of Corbyn. | | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:45 - May 12 with 2304 views | jeera |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:25 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Wouldn't it be better if said what he believes is correct, ie either say extend or say dont extend and go with no deal if we cannot get a deal. If he's not careful it will start to look like he is trying to please all and end up pleasing no one, a fence sitter. As a PM you have to make decisions even difficult ones.
I thought he had made a good start as Leader, but the last thing he wants is the fence sitting tag of Corbyn. |
Corbyn has been anti- EU his entire political career.
I don't understand why people still don't recognise that. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 21:00 - May 12 with 2280 views | manchego |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:25 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Wouldn't it be better if said what he believes is correct, ie either say extend or say dont extend and go with no deal if we cannot get a deal. If he's not careful it will start to look like he is trying to please all and end up pleasing no one, a fence sitter. As a PM you have to make decisions even difficult ones.
I thought he had made a good start as Leader, but the last thing he wants is the fence sitting tag of Corbyn. |
Pushed again to clarify his position on the issue, he said: “I would seek to ensure that the negotiations were completed as quickly as possible. I’ve not called for a pause because the government says it’s going to get it done by the end of the year. So let’s see how they get on.
“I don’t think it’s practical but we’re a long way from December so we’ll see how we get on. But the government has said we can do it within the 12 months, so let’s see.”
Not fence sitting in the slightest.
Besides, any attempt to stall what the Tories are doing will be used against him if/ when it goes all wrong. |  | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 21:06 - May 12 with 2262 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 21:00 - May 12 by manchego |
Pushed again to clarify his position on the issue, he said: “I would seek to ensure that the negotiations were completed as quickly as possible. I’ve not called for a pause because the government says it’s going to get it done by the end of the year. So let’s see how they get on.
“I don’t think it’s practical but we’re a long way from December so we’ll see how we get on. But the government has said we can do it within the 12 months, so let’s see.”
Not fence sitting in the slightest.
Besides, any attempt to stall what the Tories are doing will be used against him if/ when it goes all wrong. |
Transition period is eleven months, not twelve. The real deadline is just seven weeks away as any agreement on extending the transition period has to be agreed by then. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 21:39 - May 12 with 2198 views | tractordownsouth |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 20:25 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Wouldn't it be better if said what he believes is correct, ie either say extend or say dont extend and go with no deal if we cannot get a deal. If he's not careful it will start to look like he is trying to please all and end up pleasing no one, a fence sitter. As a PM you have to make decisions even difficult ones.
I thought he had made a good start as Leader, but the last thing he wants is the fence sitting tag of Corbyn. |
He's said he's going to let the government have a go at fulfilling their manifesto pledge, which they won't be able to do. If he tries to oppose it, he'll inevitably be called a remoaner or be accused of talking our country down. Leaving the Tories to wallow in their own sh*t is the best option, as the parliamentary arithmetic makes it impossible for anything else to happen, so he may as well force them into a corner and show them up. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 22:46 - May 12 with 2128 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 21:39 - May 12 by tractordownsouth |
He's said he's going to let the government have a go at fulfilling their manifesto pledge, which they won't be able to do. If he tries to oppose it, he'll inevitably be called a remoaner or be accused of talking our country down. Leaving the Tories to wallow in their own sh*t is the best option, as the parliamentary arithmetic makes it impossible for anything else to happen, so he may as well force them into a corner and show them up. |
Thankfully he hasn’t taken this attitude regarding the coronavirus pandemic and is being far more constructive, despite the parliamentary arithmetic.
Imagine if he took the attitude of “Leaving the Tories to wallow in their own sh*t is the best option” over a public health crisis? [Post edited 12 May 2020 22:47]
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 08:46 - May 13 with 1964 views | tractordownsouth |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 22:46 - May 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Thankfully he hasn’t taken this attitude regarding the coronavirus pandemic and is being far more constructive, despite the parliamentary arithmetic.
Imagine if he took the attitude of “Leaving the Tories to wallow in their own sh*t is the best option” over a public health crisis? [Post edited 12 May 2020 22:47]
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Completely different scenario - this is a unique and unexpected crisis which doesn’t involve party politics, whereas Brexit is a self inflicted Tory mess and their undeliverable promises on the issue won them the last election. Also the Covid response has been through the executive, not parliament, so Starmer couldn’t affect it anyway. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 09:14 - May 13 with 1915 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 08:46 - May 13 by tractordownsouth |
Completely different scenario - this is a unique and unexpected crisis which doesn’t involve party politics, whereas Brexit is a self inflicted Tory mess and their undeliverable promises on the issue won them the last election. Also the Covid response has been through the executive, not parliament, so Starmer couldn’t affect it anyway. |
But if you believe that crashing out of the EU will take the country back to the stone ages and believe that millions of job losses will occur, the mental and physical health isSues that comes with it, the homelessness, no money to invest in the NHS, child poverty massively increasing, then surely you want the leader of the opposition to do everything in his power to prevent such a scenario?
It’s the dilemma that has been discussed on here for the past five years. Do we want a politically smart opposition who will do what it takes to get into power or do we want a principled opposition which is less politically savvy and never gets in the position to enact its policies.
With this move Starmer is showing he has political savv. But he’s certainly ditching his principles in pursuit of the political game.
And this is by no means a criticism. | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 09:40 - May 13 with 1881 views | manchego |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 09:14 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
But if you believe that crashing out of the EU will take the country back to the stone ages and believe that millions of job losses will occur, the mental and physical health isSues that comes with it, the homelessness, no money to invest in the NHS, child poverty massively increasing, then surely you want the leader of the opposition to do everything in his power to prevent such a scenario?
It’s the dilemma that has been discussed on here for the past five years. Do we want a politically smart opposition who will do what it takes to get into power or do we want a principled opposition which is less politically savvy and never gets in the position to enact its policies.
With this move Starmer is showing he has political savv. But he’s certainly ditching his principles in pursuit of the political game.
And this is by no means a criticism. |
I'm not seeing him ditch any principles.
He has no power to change anything. He's not going to wade in with more 'brexit is bad' rhetoric because it's giving the press and the Tories a big stick to beat him with ( you lost get over it remoaner ) and ultimately it's completely pointless.
Plus, any chaos that brexit brings will be turned on Starmer if he fights what is inevitably going to happen.
Besides, the virus is enough to keep him busy and it's something he 'might' be able to influence. | | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 09:44 - May 13 with 1867 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Smart move to go against everything you believe in? Not really
OK the economic carnage caused by a no deal Brexit will pale into relative insiginificance compared to the catastrophic human and economic cost of the fake lockdown.... but a bit of integrity never does much harm. |  |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 10:05 - May 13 with 1832 views | manchego |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 09:44 - May 13 by ElephantintheRoom |
Smart move to go against everything you believe in? Not really
OK the economic carnage caused by a no deal Brexit will pale into relative insiginificance compared to the catastrophic human and economic cost of the fake lockdown.... but a bit of integrity never does much harm. |
He hasn't gone against everything he believes in. He's a remainer. Always has been.
"Pick your battles" is the phrase that comes to mind.
And we (remainers) lost, you won - get over it. | | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 10:58 - May 13 with 1796 views | vilanovablue |
Leaving the Tories to deal with it is a calculated move, I think that if it does go badly wrong then Boris and those who advocated Brexit can't shift any blame onto Starmer. I may not agree with it as a remoaner but I can see the potential benefit as a naturally left leaning sort of person. |  | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 11:06 - May 13 with 1777 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 10:58 - May 13 by vilanovablue |
Leaving the Tories to deal with it is a calculated move, I think that if it does go badly wrong then Boris and those who advocated Brexit can't shift any blame onto Starmer. I may not agree with it as a remoaner but I can see the potential benefit as a naturally left leaning sort of person. |
By that rationale we should want Brexit to happen without any extension because then it will improve the chances of a Labour government.
Where's the line? | |
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| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 11:06 - May 13 with 1777 views | Beckets |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 10:58 - May 13 by vilanovablue |
Leaving the Tories to deal with it is a calculated move, I think that if it does go badly wrong then Boris and those who advocated Brexit can't shift any blame onto Starmer. I may not agree with it as a remoaner but I can see the potential benefit as a naturally left leaning sort of person. |
I can’t see Johnson going on for much more than 12 months. The virus, Brexit, being ripped apart by Starmer at PMQS etc. I can see him resigning next year to spend more time with his families. |  | | |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 12:28 - May 13 with 1707 views | vilanovablue |
| Starmer refuses to back a Brexit transition extension. on 11:06 - May 13 by Beckets |
I can’t see Johnson going on for much more than 12 months. The virus, Brexit, being ripped apart by Starmer at PMQS etc. I can see him resigning next year to spend more time with his families. |
I've had very similar conversations recently. He can just say that following his illness he feels someone with more "energy" is needed to move things forward and gives him free rein to return to journalism and then writes his memoirs painting himself in a wonderful light! | | | |
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