| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions 23:10 - Feb 4 with 15260 views | StokieBlue |
So it looks like the Tory backbenchers and the Chancellor are applying pressure to try and get the government to bring forward the dates for considering easing the lockdown in England.
This is against the advice of SAGE who Sunak has stated are acting too conservatively. You also have Hunt coming out and saying lockdown should be continued until cases are to 1000 per day and Starmer saying we shouldn't open up too early like other times.
Then you have Chope on Newsnight saying that the 8th March should be "lockdown freedom day" when the public get their "liberties" back and other evidences showing that only 20% of people are following isolation orders.
The issue here is that if there are 20,000 cases a day, even if the R is low (say 0.6) then when you open up that is still a high baseline number of cases which can start growing exponentially again and it won't take long to get to high numbers. Counter to that, if you wait until cases are 5,000 per day it will take longer to reach higher cases and it will also allow more time for vaccinations before those cases reach a high level.
Interesting Chope refused to say what an acceptable number of cases were to open up, he said that isn't the point and that people should be able to exercise their freedom and even referred to the public as "prisoners" so that might give an indication where a number of Tory backbenchers are at the moment.
You also have Damien Green on Newsnight saying that this has to be the last lockdown for both economic and mental health reasons and in order for that to be the case we need come out in a cautious and pragmatic way due to the new variants.
So it seems there are two very solid blocks of opinion but very little agreement between the blocks.
What are peoples thoughts?
SB
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:12 - Feb 4 with 2563 views | Herbivore |
The majority of Tories are complete knobs. They seem to have learnt absolutely nothing from the numerous cock ups over the past year. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:14 - Feb 4 with 2554 views | tractordownsouth |
Personally, I have very little time for Tory MPs that are suddenly pretending to champion mental health sufferers when they have spent the last 10 years voting to cut their services. I hate the term "virtue signalling", but it applies perfectly to this situation. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:14]
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:17 - Feb 4 with 2530 views | GlasgowBlue |
I wouldn’t ease restrictions until three weeks after all over 60’s have been vaccinated.
I say this knowing that may well send me skint. But it will definitely send me skint if we ease restrictions too soon followed by another two to three month lockdown in the summer. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:18 - Feb 4 with 2520 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:12 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
The majority of Tories are complete knobs. They seem to have learnt absolutely nothing from the numerous cock ups over the past year. |
Didn't know much about Chope but he came over awfully on Newsnight and looking at Wiki he seems like a rather odious individual:
- Tabled a bill to allow people to opt-out of the minimum wage
- Climate change denier
- Anti-same sex marriage
- Voted against companies being forced to declare a pay gap between men and women
- Supports the death penalty
Quite the rap sheet there.
SB | | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:21 - Feb 4 with 2500 views | tractordownsouth |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:18 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
Didn't know much about Chope but he came over awfully on Newsnight and looking at Wiki he seems like a rather odious individual:
- Tabled a bill to allow people to opt-out of the minimum wage
- Climate change denier
- Anti-same sex marriage
- Voted against companies being forced to declare a pay gap between men and women
- Supports the death penalty
Quite the rap sheet there.
SB |
In 2018, also voted against a bil that would have made it illegal to take a photo up someone's skirt.
As Frankie Boyle put it, if he was that desperate to see a picture of a c**t, he could have just taken a selfie. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:23]
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:23 - Feb 4 with 2497 views | Guthrum |
Sunak is becoming frightened at the exposure of his own Department. Needs to start thinking more creatively about measures to take in the aftermath, which will free up more funds for now. Because he's going to need them. Possibly he's also scared of being thrown under the bus by his political rivals once this is all over.
Chope is just an @rse. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:23 - Feb 4 with 2488 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:18 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
Didn't know much about Chope but he came over awfully on Newsnight and looking at Wiki he seems like a rather odious individual:
- Tabled a bill to allow people to opt-out of the minimum wage
- Climate change denier
- Anti-same sex marriage
- Voted against companies being forced to declare a pay gap between men and women
- Supports the death penalty
Quite the rap sheet there.
SB |
Was he the one who filibustered the bill looking to ban up-skirting as well or have I got him confused with someone else? | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:25 - Feb 4 with 2488 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:23 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
Was he the one who filibustered the bill looking to ban up-skirting as well or have I got him confused with someone else? |
Yes, that was him, I'd forgotten about that, perhaps because it was so ridiculous.
SB [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:25]
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:28 - Feb 4 with 2477 views | J2BLUE |
I agree this needs to be the last lockdown if at all possible and I think it is IF we go slowly. I have no desire to see restrictions lifted in one go on March 8th. What is the point? Why gamble and put everyone's sacrifice on the line?
If we are sensible we'll have a good summer, we'll have a normal Christmas etc. Why rush it?
I don't want to put a date on it but why not aim for Easter? Give us another month and drive the rate down further, let the weather get better, get people vaccinated. If we miss the Easter target then maybe target May Day. That would allow Muslims to celebrate Eid which was taken from them last year.
Lets just take it as slow as we can. The Bank of England have predicted the economy will recover quite quickly, although perhaps not this year. We have our boot on the throat of this virus at the moment (all bets are off if we get a bad mutation etc). There is zero reason to take it off just yet. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:29]
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:30 - Feb 4 with 2455 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:25 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
Yes, that was him, I'd forgotten about that, perhaps because it was so ridiculous.
SB [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:25]
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I mean, where do you even begin with that? And people actually voted for this arsehole. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 with 2451 views | 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:32 - Feb 4 with 2444 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:28 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
I agree this needs to be the last lockdown if at all possible and I think it is IF we go slowly. I have no desire to see restrictions lifted in one go on March 8th. What is the point? Why gamble and put everyone's sacrifice on the line?
If we are sensible we'll have a good summer, we'll have a normal Christmas etc. Why rush it?
I don't want to put a date on it but why not aim for Easter? Give us another month and drive the rate down further, let the weather get better, get people vaccinated. If we miss the Easter target then maybe target May Day. That would allow Muslims to celebrate Eid which was taken from them last year.
Lets just take it as slow as we can. The Bank of England have predicted the economy will recover quite quickly, although perhaps not this year. We have our boot on the throat of this virus at the moment (all bets are off if we get a bad mutation etc). There is zero reason to take it off just yet. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:29]
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Looks like Wales will be first to start reopening schools.
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:33 - Feb 4 with 2439 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:30 - Feb 4 by Herbivore |
I mean, where do you even begin with that? And people actually voted for this arsehole. |
65% of the vote in the last election and a 47% majority.
SB | | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:34 - Feb 4 with 2430 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |
You're my age. I assume your parents are roughly the same age as mine. Are you willing to let them take the risk for a few more weeks of liberty? What is it you're so desperate to do? The blue for deaths on the graph they showed yesterday was still fairly high for over 50s. Why not wait another month or so and get them vaccinated? | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:35 - Feb 4 with 2421 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |
Bless. Nearly a year in and you still don't remotely understand any of this. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:36 - Feb 4 with 2413 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:33 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
65% of the vote in the last election and a 47% majority.
SB |
Think it's time we just set fire to the country and start from scratch. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:36 - Feb 4 with 2413 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:34 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
You're my age. I assume your parents are roughly the same age as mine. Are you willing to let them take the risk for a few more weeks of liberty? What is it you're so desperate to do? The blue for deaths on the graph they showed yesterday was still fairly high for over 50s. Why not wait another month or so and get them vaccinated? |
I would be more than willing to take the risk. They’re both around 60 ... they’d be absolutely fine. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:38 - Feb 4 with 2407 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |
None at all?
So pubs open and you drinking with your mates indoors. That's basically all you care about isn't it.
Currently ~50% of the people in hospital are under 70 with the age range of 50-70 being a concern. A total opening up would create a huge amount of cases which would mean a lot of people in hospital across all age-ranges and if the NHS can't cope then people of all age ranges will die if they can't get treated.
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:39 - Feb 4 with 2390 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:36 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
I would be more than willing to take the risk. They’re both around 60 ... they’d be absolutely fine. |
You don't know that. They would be at some risk. You can't wish it away. Even if your parents were fine and mine were fine what about people our age who would lose a parent or both for the sake of a few weeks? Look at that graph. The risk drops massively once you get below 50. Surely you could do one more month or so of this 'lockdown'? | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:41 - Feb 4 with 2377 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:38 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
None at all?
So pubs open and you drinking with your mates indoors. That's basically all you care about isn't it.
Currently ~50% of the people in hospital are under 70 with the age range of 50-70 being a concern. A total opening up would create a huge amount of cases which would mean a lot of people in hospital across all age-ranges and if the NHS can't cope then people of all age ranges will die if they can't get treated.
SB |
You have wilfully ignored that I said over 70s plus the clinically vulnerable. The vast majority of those under 70 in hospital will fall into the clinically vulnerable category. The youth have paid too high a price already (for the record at 34 I do not count myself in that category) | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:41 - Feb 4 with 2385 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:38 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
None at all?
So pubs open and you drinking with your mates indoors. That's basically all you care about isn't it.
Currently ~50% of the people in hospital are under 70 with the age range of 50-70 being a concern. A total opening up would create a huge amount of cases which would mean a lot of people in hospital across all age-ranges and if the NHS can't cope then people of all age ranges will die if they can't get treated.
SB |
He doesn't seem that bothered by deaths so lets add that there would likely then be another lockdown.
Think of an extra few weeks on the end of the current one as an investment. Hopefully we'll never be locked down again after this. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:44 - Feb 4 with 2363 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:41 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
He doesn't seem that bothered by deaths so lets add that there would likely then be another lockdown.
Think of an extra few weeks on the end of the current one as an investment. Hopefully we'll never be locked down again after this. |
As crude as this may sound I do not believe that a plus 80 person living another year or so is worth a year of a child’s education. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:45 - Feb 4 with 2358 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:44 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
As crude as this may sound I do not believe that a plus 80 person living another year or so is worth a year of a child’s education. |
We were talking about 50 year olds, not 80 year olds. We were talking about people the age of our parents.
Would you feel differently if your nan had died? Again, i'm sorry to bring that up and I hope she's 100% better now. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:45 - Feb 4 with 2356 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:41 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
You have wilfully ignored that I said over 70s plus the clinically vulnerable. The vast majority of those under 70 in hospital will fall into the clinically vulnerable category. The youth have paid too high a price already (for the record at 34 I do not count myself in that category) |
No I haven't, you seem to have wilfully misunderstood my point.
It's not true that the vast majority of under 70's fall into the clinically vulnerable - show me your evidence of this.
SB | | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:47 - Feb 4 with 2347 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:44 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
As crude as this may sound I do not believe that a plus 80 person living another year or so is worth a year of a child’s education. |
We aren't talking about a year of education though, we are talking about another month or two which isn't ideal but is probably preferable to having to have another lockdown with business and schools closed at some point which is the likely result of your "open everything" position.
Amazingly there could even be an intermediate position where we keep the pubs closed but allow children back to school. Given your concern for the kids that is surely the best way forward wouldn't you agree?
SB | | | |
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