| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions 23:10 - Feb 4 with 15642 views | StokieBlue |
So it looks like the Tory backbenchers and the Chancellor are applying pressure to try and get the government to bring forward the dates for considering easing the lockdown in England.
This is against the advice of SAGE who Sunak has stated are acting too conservatively. You also have Hunt coming out and saying lockdown should be continued until cases are to 1000 per day and Starmer saying we shouldn't open up too early like other times.
Then you have Chope on Newsnight saying that the 8th March should be "lockdown freedom day" when the public get their "liberties" back and other evidences showing that only 20% of people are following isolation orders.
The issue here is that if there are 20,000 cases a day, even if the R is low (say 0.6) then when you open up that is still a high baseline number of cases which can start growing exponentially again and it won't take long to get to high numbers. Counter to that, if you wait until cases are 5,000 per day it will take longer to reach higher cases and it will also allow more time for vaccinations before those cases reach a high level.
Interesting Chope refused to say what an acceptable number of cases were to open up, he said that isn't the point and that people should be able to exercise their freedom and even referred to the public as "prisoners" so that might give an indication where a number of Tory backbenchers are at the moment.
You also have Damien Green on Newsnight saying that this has to be the last lockdown for both economic and mental health reasons and in order for that to be the case we need come out in a cautious and pragmatic way due to the new variants.
So it seems there are two very solid blocks of opinion but very little agreement between the blocks.
What are peoples thoughts?
SB
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:03 - Feb 5 with 641 views | footers |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
Because Paz is absolutely gagging for a pint. |
... of Fosters. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:03 - Feb 5 with 626 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:59 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
With a vaccine being rolled out at an incredible rate, we’ve moved beyond the point of having to take risks.
Why fcuk it up when we are so close? |
Even with everyone vaccinated there is a risk (think mutations, not 100% efficacy etc). At some point we are going to have to decide that the risk is worth taking. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:04 - Feb 5 with 637 views | Radlett_blue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:28 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
I agree this needs to be the last lockdown if at all possible and I think it is IF we go slowly. I have no desire to see restrictions lifted in one go on March 8th. What is the point? Why gamble and put everyone's sacrifice on the line?
If we are sensible we'll have a good summer, we'll have a normal Christmas etc. Why rush it?
I don't want to put a date on it but why not aim for Easter? Give us another month and drive the rate down further, let the weather get better, get people vaccinated. If we miss the Easter target then maybe target May Day. That would allow Muslims to celebrate Eid which was taken from them last year.
Lets just take it as slow as we can. The Bank of England have predicted the economy will recover quite quickly, although perhaps not this year. We have our boot on the throat of this virus at the moment (all bets are off if we get a bad mutation etc). There is zero reason to take it off just yet. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 23:29]
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Let's not fixate about Easter. That worked well at Christmas, didn't it?
A priority should be to try to get schools back so teachers should be next in line for vaccinations although the problem seems that children can be asymptomatic but pass on the virus to more vulnerable adults.
Any easing should be very gradual so pre-announcing or leaking a "big bang" day would be daft. Ease very slowly. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:04 - Feb 5 with 623 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:01 - Feb 5 by m14_blue |
It does, but it’s a false dichotomy that’s being presented here.
Opening back up too early will mean ‘normality’ is further away, not closer, as it will almost certainly mean more restrictions will be needed a little way down the track.
A little bit of patience now will not only save lives but will also be beneficial for the economy in the medium term. This constant open/close is crippling, ask any business owner and I’m sure 99% of them would rather we take a bit longer but then actually have some certainty and the possibility of opening properly. |
That’s a good point and should be taken into account by those making decisions | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:05 - Feb 5 with 634 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:43 - Feb 5 by vapour_trail |
Not sure there’s much point to this thread.
The op sets out some opposing viewpoints to ending lockdown and invites people’s thoughts.
Look at what’s ensued. |
Not entirely sure it's my fault.
One hopes for reasoned debate, even on here. I was more looking to get peoples predictions on what will happen.
Perhaps I should have known better.
SB [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 9:45]
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:06 - Feb 5 with 628 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Were you giving them a 2 meter gap between them and yourself? |
I’m not doubting that BL and his mate complied with social distancing rules, but my biggest bugbare are couples walking on a path side by side and then not giving an inch when I am approaching from the opposite direction. They should move to single file.
When I come across it they get some verbal from me. It’s selfish c**tish behaviour. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:06 - Feb 5 with 628 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:57 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
You’re going to have to accept that at some point the risks are going to worth taking. It’s a sensitive subject and one I have apologised for blundering into clumsily but a number of deaths will be acceptable to return society to normality. What that number is needs to be discussed sensibly. |
You just don't get it do you?
What about your own death, would that be acceptable? If, for example, your premature demise, sad though it would be, meant 5 kids got back to school earlier, would that be ok? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:07 - Feb 5 with 621 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:03 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
Even with everyone vaccinated there is a risk (think mutations, not 100% efficacy etc). At some point we are going to have to decide that the risk is worth taking. |
That isn’t the risk yiu we’re talking about though Paz | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:08 - Feb 5 with 603 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 by footers |
You volunteering your nan to be among these acceptable deaths, or is that too close to home? |
It’s not a case of that. Had my Nan not have made it, of course I would have been very sad but she’s 86, she’s had a fantastic innings, I would accept a degree of risk to people that age in order to return society to normalcy. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:08 - Feb 5 with 615 views | artsbossbeard |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |
Hi, Dr Nick Riveria. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:09 - Feb 5 with 593 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:07 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
That isn’t the risk yiu we’re talking about though Paz |
No, I’m saying we can’t be too risk averse. A strong Covid recovery will rely on some bold decisions. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:09 - Feb 5 with 606 views | eireblue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:08 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
It’s not a case of that. Had my Nan not have made it, of course I would have been very sad but she’s 86, she’s had a fantastic innings, I would accept a degree of risk to people that age in order to return society to normalcy. |
Paz is always happy for other people to accept a risk. |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:10 - Feb 5 with 602 views | footers |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:08 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
It’s not a case of that. Had my Nan not have made it, of course I would have been very sad but she’s 86, she’s had a fantastic innings, I would accept a degree of risk to people that age in order to return society to normalcy. |
So that's a yes then. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:13 - Feb 5 with 588 views | bluelagos |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:58 - Feb 5 by StokieBlue |
I don't remember him applying a caveat around evidence.
I thought he said we should open up regardless as the people were "prisoners" and should have their "freedom" and "liberty".
I don't think he's hugely concerned with the evidence as you've said.
"Tbh am fiik what we should do as the damage being done to people's wellbeing is increasing by the day. We are social animals and we are building up more and more problems every day the lockdown continues."
This is a generalisation though. Certainly it's true for many but it's also not true for many as responses in this thread show with people willing to extend lockdown to get it all done properly. This is why the position is so hard.
SB |
Morning SB
I posted that comment about Chope minutes after watching it, so confident have not mis-represented his position.
I know he uses emotive (to some) language about prisoners, although it is not that far from reality. E.G. People is an open prison ordinarily would have more rights that I currently do for socialising...
I think the damage being done is widespread if not uniform. And it is concentrated on those in the poorest sections of society. Those without space in their homes or surrounds.
Paz makes some poorly worded observations, but he shares some real examples of people suffering due to lockdown. There are many similar stories, albeit we will have to wait until this over to more fully understand the impkications I guess. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:15 - Feb 5 with 576 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:06 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m not doubting that BL and his mate complied with social distancing rules, but my biggest bugbare are couples walking on a path side by side and then not giving an inch when I am approaching from the opposite direction. They should move to single file.
When I come across it they get some verbal from me. It’s selfish c**tish behaviour. |
100%. This is mine and the missus bugbare too. We always move to single file or walk in the road in such situations.
I've come across an entire family spread across a path in the park (4 abreast) where the dad only moved slightly to let me run past. Bear in mind this is a bloke older than me... and I'm running (heavy breathing and sweating). Absolute feckwits. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 9:17]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:18 - Feb 5 with 562 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:15 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
100%. This is mine and the missus bugbare too. We always move to single file or walk in the road in such situations.
I've come across an entire family spread across a path in the park (4 abreast) where the dad only moved slightly to let me run past. Bear in mind this is a bloke older than me... and I'm running (heavy breathing and sweating). Absolute feckwits. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 9:17]
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Start coughing* mate. That should soon shift them.
Before the usual suspect pounce on this, I’m not being serious | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:19 - Feb 5 with 550 views | bluelagos |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Were you giving them a 2 meter gap between them and yourself? |
Doubt it.
If he'd simply asked us to move over would have happily done so, as I have done on many occasions previously when people look anxious.
I misread his arm waving and only realised their concerns as we passed them and got an earfull. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:23 - Feb 5 with 533 views | bluelagos |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:06 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m not doubting that BL and his mate complied with social distancing rules, but my biggest bugbare are couples walking on a path side by side and then not giving an inch when I am approaching from the opposite direction. They should move to single file.
When I come across it they get some verbal from me. It’s selfish c**tish behaviour. |
Were you out in Essex yesterday? 😀 | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:24 - Feb 5 with 524 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:19 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
Doubt it.
If he'd simply asked us to move over would have happily done so, as I have done on many occasions previously when people look anxious.
I misread his arm waving and only realised their concerns as we passed them and got an earfull. |
He shouldn’t have to ask BL. It’s common courtesy to ensure you’re not putting somebody else at risk of transmission. I’m surprised tbh. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:25 - Feb 5 with 523 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:09 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
No, I’m saying we can’t be too risk averse. A strong Covid recovery will rely on some bold decisions. |
It wouldn't be bold to open up, it would be reckless.
The risks due to non-100% efficacy and mutations are negligible compared to a third wave with more tens of thousands of people dying. Even the first dose of the double dose vaccines have been shown to virtually eliminate hospitalisations. They also massively limit transmission. And it's the rampant spread of the disease that provides the opportunity for the mutations too. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:28 - Feb 5 with 511 views | bluelagos |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:24 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
He shouldn’t have to ask BL. It’s common courtesy to ensure you’re not putting somebody else at risk of transmission. I’m surprised tbh. |
Not sure I explained it particularly well. But he was say 30 yards ahead of me waving in such a manner that I thought something was coming. I pass many people, every day without any such issues.
I wouldnt for a minute look to encroach on anyone coming the other way. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:29 - Feb 5 with 509 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:19 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
Doubt it.
If he'd simply asked us to move over would have happily done so, as I have done on many occasions previously when people look anxious.
I misread his arm waving and only realised their concerns as we passed them and got an earfull. |
I'm not surprised you got an earful then. Why on earth isn't this at the front of your mind when out for a walk, especially with an old couple approaching? I'm trying to hold back here because generally you seem a decent chap on here, but I'm sick of people wandering about getting too close, not moving etc. as if they're oblivious to a global pandemic being on. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:32 - Feb 5 with 497 views | bluelagos |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:15 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
100%. This is mine and the missus bugbare too. We always move to single file or walk in the road in such situations.
I've come across an entire family spread across a path in the park (4 abreast) where the dad only moved slightly to let me run past. Bear in mind this is a bloke older than me... and I'm running (heavy breathing and sweating). Absolute feckwits. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 9:17]
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All the more reason for walking in the countryside. Far fewer people around and far easier to keep a safe distance. Much harder on pavements in towns as I discovered yesterday. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:33 - Feb 5 with 493 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:28 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
Not sure I explained it particularly well. But he was say 30 yards ahead of me waving in such a manner that I thought something was coming. I pass many people, every day without any such issues.
I wouldnt for a minute look to encroach on anyone coming the other way. |
You've just said you doubt you were 2 meters apart when you passed, so you did encroach on someone coming the other way. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:35 - Feb 5 with 484 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:32 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
All the more reason for walking in the countryside. Far fewer people around and far easier to keep a safe distance. Much harder on pavements in towns as I discovered yesterday. |
It can be done fine if people have their wits about them and use a bit of common sense and decency. Also not everyone is near to the countryside. You're normally more sensible than this BL! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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