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Sorry I couldn't resist using that hackneyed phrase. However we have heard hundreds of suggestions for our (hopefully soon to be appointed) new manager but in my experience when recruiting the first thing you need is a criteria of essential and desirable qualifications skills experience and qualities. What do we want?
For me proven success and an affinity with the club would be essential
Be careful what you wish for on 10:05 - Feb 22 by Pendejo
On that basis neither Ramsey or Robson would have got the job.
Whilst times have changed, we are essentially where we were when Ramsey took over.
I guess I would need to quantify affinity with the club and success. It may be that Mowbray is the only person that met that criteria though there are numerous ex town players currently starting in management so maybe experience and qualifications are more important or playing style
Really someone with intelligent coaching acumen rather than a "high profile" name.
Keane - High profile name, duh
Jewell - His name was known, but no football management CV entries in recent years
Mick - Well known name, and actually the outlier here as he had the pedigree for football management ability at Championship level.
Hurst - Although a warm thought by the fans, he was doing the business in the league below, but Evans gave him a disasterous level of trust and freedom without with experience at upper league footie.
Lambert - Done nothing since an impressive run with our closest rivals. In fact, a series of high profile fall outs, compensation claims and failures.
===
Let's take a look at the two choice names among TWTD posters
Cowleys - Did very good at rebuilding a damaged club and have proven a number of times they have an intimate understanding of team building, coaching and man management as well as a healthy relationship with the fans. They did well at Huddersfield given the club were in freefall, but were not given a pre season to assert their own vision. I truly believe Huddersfield's position currently would be no worse with them in charge.
Paul Cook - A full career as a player having come through a non-league team as a player and grifted out a career. He did the business at wigan and seems to have a level headed approach to football management. The key here - he intimately knows football at many levels, including grass roots.
WKJ's Choice David Artell - Crewe has been a project, one he took on and has done very well with. Able to work constructively with academy players and not arbitrarily using them as lambs to the slaughter, and possibly better than Mick McCarthy with youth player development to the senior level.
As well as the usual footballing/coaching/man management requirements I would like to see a manger who thinks, whilst walking past the statues to Sir Alf and Sir Bob, "Bloody hell! what a privilege to be manager here. I really need to be on top of my game to follow those guys." but is also confident and able enough that such thoughts don't overwhelm him or her.
Be careful what you wish for on 10:16 - Feb 22 by wkj
Really someone with intelligent coaching acumen rather than a "high profile" name.
Keane - High profile name, duh
Jewell - His name was known, but no football management CV entries in recent years
Mick - Well known name, and actually the outlier here as he had the pedigree for football management ability at Championship level.
Hurst - Although a warm thought by the fans, he was doing the business in the league below, but Evans gave him a disasterous level of trust and freedom without with experience at upper league footie.
Lambert - Done nothing since an impressive run with our closest rivals. In fact, a series of high profile fall outs, compensation claims and failures.
===
Let's take a look at the two choice names among TWTD posters
Cowleys - Did very good at rebuilding a damaged club and have proven a number of times they have an intimate understanding of team building, coaching and man management as well as a healthy relationship with the fans. They did well at Huddersfield given the club were in freefall, but were not given a pre season to assert their own vision. I truly believe Huddersfield's position currently would be no worse with them in charge.
Paul Cook - A full career as a player having come through a non-league team as a player and grifted out a career. He did the business at wigan and seems to have a level headed approach to football management. The key here - he intimately knows football at many levels, including grass roots.
WKJ's Choice David Artell - Crewe has been a project, one he took on and has done very well with. Able to work constructively with academy players and not arbitrarily using them as lambs to the slaughter, and possibly better than Mick McCarthy with youth player development to the senior level.
[Post edited 22 Feb 2021 10:18]
"Cowleys - Did very good at rebuilding a damaged club and have proven a number of times they have an intimate understanding of team building, coaching and man management as well as a healthy relationship with the fans. "
Its this for me, they know how to develop, how to recruit and how to build a team, their team - something lacking here for years.
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Be careful what you wish for on 10:25 - Feb 22 with 2400 views
Be careful what you wish for on 10:23 - Feb 22 by You_Bloo_Right
As well as the usual footballing/coaching/man management requirements I would like to see a manger who thinks, whilst walking past the statues to Sir Alf and Sir Bob, "Bloody hell! what a privilege to be manager here. I really need to be on top of my game to follow those guys." but is also confident and able enough that such thoughts don't overwhelm him or her.
Yeah, not much to ask.
Basically that they’re a good manager able to handle a bigger club.
Also:
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Be careful what you wish for on 10:27 - Feb 22 with 2389 views
Be careful what you wish for on 10:16 - Feb 22 by wkj
Really someone with intelligent coaching acumen rather than a "high profile" name.
Keane - High profile name, duh
Jewell - His name was known, but no football management CV entries in recent years
Mick - Well known name, and actually the outlier here as he had the pedigree for football management ability at Championship level.
Hurst - Although a warm thought by the fans, he was doing the business in the league below, but Evans gave him a disasterous level of trust and freedom without with experience at upper league footie.
Lambert - Done nothing since an impressive run with our closest rivals. In fact, a series of high profile fall outs, compensation claims and failures.
===
Let's take a look at the two choice names among TWTD posters
Cowleys - Did very good at rebuilding a damaged club and have proven a number of times they have an intimate understanding of team building, coaching and man management as well as a healthy relationship with the fans. They did well at Huddersfield given the club were in freefall, but were not given a pre season to assert their own vision. I truly believe Huddersfield's position currently would be no worse with them in charge.
Paul Cook - A full career as a player having come through a non-league team as a player and grifted out a career. He did the business at wigan and seems to have a level headed approach to football management. The key here - he intimately knows football at many levels, including grass roots.
WKJ's Choice David Artell - Crewe has been a project, one he took on and has done very well with. Able to work constructively with academy players and not arbitrarily using them as lambs to the slaughter, and possibly better than Mick McCarthy with youth player development to the senior level.
[Post edited 22 Feb 2021 10:18]
Personally I would like to see good experience but not necessarily a big name. Lets face it most of the big names would not risk their reputation on ITFC we need someone hungry for success but with experience/knowledge.
Perhaps I should have made affinity with the club a Desirable as it limits the field but I would love someone who knows and understands the club
Proven success AND an affinity with the club would be nice but it doesn't leave too many options.
ME really needs to get away from this obsession with managers that have won a promotion before, however many years ago. He tries to be too smart about it all, a big name from their playing career or a name with a couple of promotions under their belt. Forget the CV for a second and ask what it is WE need, what we lack and what skills the next manager needs to fix it.
The main thing for me is someone very hands on with the day to day. Something of a control freak, in a good way. Regular one to ones with players and staff, someone who can put an arm around a shoulder when needed or a rocket up a backside. That emotional intelligence and those soft skills are really important and what Lambert appears to desperately lack. Footballers are generally quite basic, they need a bit of love sometimes or a bit of tough love at other times. Lambert's man management is patently awful, and that shows in our performances. I can't think of a single player in his time here who has consistently performed, or who he's improved, and we're now in League 1. Mick had that down to a tee and the players respected him massively, that certainly isn't the case for Lambert.
In many respects the Jewell replacement made a lot of sense when Keane left, he was that father figure type and had success in the past in really taking a squad on a journey and getting that buy in. He cultivated a bit of a crazy gang spirit at Wigan and Bradford and while I don't think we need that, we need someone who will create that team spirit. Tactically I don't think Lambert has any idea, over 2 years since he joined and we've got a squad with 6 loanees, 7 changes from one week to the next, switching formations. He's literally achieved nothing in his 2 years.
Cook, Cowley, Pearson are the obvious contenders and value bets for me. There's no guarantee any manager will work out, but it's about playing the percentages. If any of them are interested, we shouldn't delay.
Be careful what you wish for on 10:16 - Feb 22 by wkj
Really someone with intelligent coaching acumen rather than a "high profile" name.
Keane - High profile name, duh
Jewell - His name was known, but no football management CV entries in recent years
Mick - Well known name, and actually the outlier here as he had the pedigree for football management ability at Championship level.
Hurst - Although a warm thought by the fans, he was doing the business in the league below, but Evans gave him a disasterous level of trust and freedom without with experience at upper league footie.
Lambert - Done nothing since an impressive run with our closest rivals. In fact, a series of high profile fall outs, compensation claims and failures.
===
Let's take a look at the two choice names among TWTD posters
Cowleys - Did very good at rebuilding a damaged club and have proven a number of times they have an intimate understanding of team building, coaching and man management as well as a healthy relationship with the fans. They did well at Huddersfield given the club were in freefall, but were not given a pre season to assert their own vision. I truly believe Huddersfield's position currently would be no worse with them in charge.
Paul Cook - A full career as a player having come through a non-league team as a player and grifted out a career. He did the business at wigan and seems to have a level headed approach to football management. The key here - he intimately knows football at many levels, including grass roots.
WKJ's Choice David Artell - Crewe has been a project, one he took on and has done very well with. Able to work constructively with academy players and not arbitrarily using them as lambs to the slaughter, and possibly better than Mick McCarthy with youth player development to the senior level.
[Post edited 22 Feb 2021 10:18]
The thing with Artell is he'd been at Crewe for years before taking the manager's job. Knew the club inside out, knew the academy players coming through inside out at a club that has a very clear, defined way of doing things i.e promoting academy players. He's obviously proven himself to be a decent coach there but you do worry if that translates to a bigger club where the internal politics/expectations are very different.
Personally feel that if it isn't the Cowleys or Cook, Dyer deserves the opportunity that Artell got to step up at Crewe.
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Be careful what you wish for on 11:18 - Feb 22 with 2298 views
Be careful what you wish for on 11:13 - Feb 22 by tractorboy1978
The thing with Artell is he'd been at Crewe for years before taking the manager's job. Knew the club inside out, knew the academy players coming through inside out at a club that has a very clear, defined way of doing things i.e promoting academy players. He's obviously proven himself to be a decent coach there but you do worry if that translates to a bigger club where the internal politics/expectations are very different.
Personally feel that if it isn't the Cowleys or Cook, Dyer deserves the opportunity that Artell got to step up at Crewe.
That is a hand way of looking at Artell, and the comparisons to Dyer certainly seem appealing. The problem is, what level of support would Dyer get from the fans? Our adult fans who saw him play will likely afford him all the patience in the world, but the younger fans who don't know much about him beyond his name would expect instant success.
I wouldn't mind seeing Dyer in charge, though the risks are higher as we have to keep in mind that Crewe couldn't have been much lower when Artell took over. We have as much to lose as we have to gain at the moment with a promotion push being as likely as a relegation battle next season.
Be careful what you wish for on 10:05 - Feb 22 by Pendejo
On that basis neither Ramsey or Robson would have got the job.
Whilst times have changed, we are essentially where we were when Ramsey took over.
Must have played 30+ times for England recently & have a desire to commit to developing & improving our club resulting in success on the field. How many does that rule out?
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Be careful what you wish for on 11:28 - Feb 22 with 2264 views
Be careful what you wish for on 11:18 - Feb 22 by wkj
That is a hand way of looking at Artell, and the comparisons to Dyer certainly seem appealing. The problem is, what level of support would Dyer get from the fans? Our adult fans who saw him play will likely afford him all the patience in the world, but the younger fans who don't know much about him beyond his name would expect instant success.
I wouldn't mind seeing Dyer in charge, though the risks are higher as we have to keep in mind that Crewe couldn't have been much lower when Artell took over. We have as much to lose as we have to gain at the moment with a promotion push being as likely as a relegation battle next season.
Barring an utter disaster we can't go much lower. We've been utter turd in every respect under Lambert for two years and we finished in the top half last season and are top half again now. We are one of the best funded clubs in the division and have a (bloated) squad of players that would get into a lot of the sides in this division. We cannot understate just how poor Lambert is doing. It'd be pretty impossible for someone to do worse.
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Be careful what you wish for on 11:31 - Feb 22 with 2254 views
Be careful what you wish for on 11:28 - Feb 22 by tractorboy1978
Barring an utter disaster we can't go much lower. We've been utter turd in every respect under Lambert for two years and we finished in the top half last season and are top half again now. We are one of the best funded clubs in the division and have a (bloated) squad of players that would get into a lot of the sides in this division. We cannot understate just how poor Lambert is doing. It'd be pretty impossible for someone to do worse.
Knowing how our 15 years under Evans has gone so far, we would find out how to make the impossible a certainty. I am not saying Dyer isn't the man for the job, but I do think it is risky for both him and the club.
The ability to spot and attract players who could take us to the next level and at least keep us there. Say what you like about McCarthy, he could spot a player and, more importantly, players wanted to sign for him. Hurst, in particular, was found wanting in this area and Lambert hasn’t been much better. If Evans won’t loosen the purse strings, we must use the budget wisely to complement the kids coming through. Regards the next appointment my heart says Dyer but my head says there’s no room for sentiment. I fear he will be swallowed up by the whole situation at the club and he’s too nice to make the tough decisions that must be made. I also can’t see him laying down terms to Evans. For me, the Cowleys are probably the best choice. Still youngish, but now experienced in three divisions. They tick the box for a long-term project. Giving Dyer the job until the end of the season does make some sense. The threat of relegation is minimal and it would give him a probation period but if it doesn’t work out, I worry managerial candidates like the Cowleys will be snapped up by then.
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Be careful what you wish for on 14:04 - Feb 22 with 2033 views
I wanted to open up the debate about the the competencies we wanted rather than the individuals.
Some good points raised about Man Management which seems to be essential and it is a good point that they do not need to have played at a senior level (or at a big club like Dortmund or Celtic!) though I would like to see someone that had varied experience i.e. not just one club or country so maybe some new ideas. The ability to spot potential and coach players to improve has got to be worth acquiring as Lambert certainly does not possess this
1. Man management The overriding priority for me, after nearly three years of us being less than the sum of our parts, is to get a team and squad that is pulling in the same direction on and off the pitch. I also don’t think League One is a lot more complicated than that either.
2. Keep it simple stupid See above. If we get promoted, and likely bottom half in terms of spending, we may well need some clever and creative thinking to give us an edge in the Championship. But let’s cross that bridge if and when we come to it and when we’ve got our reasonably talented squad getting more of the basics right and building confidence and momentum that way. The Oxford game showed the same overall shapelessness and lack of cutting edge on the ball, but we set up much more solidly and had a presence through the middle in attack so we competed much better from the start.
3. Responsibility There will likely continue to be a void in terms of organisation structure supporting the manager. But get on with it. By all means if the new manager can help shape that structure then great. But we need a manager on the training pitch and on the sidelines first and foremost. Hopefully Evans can see that the organisational aspect is something that needs to be developed in parallel and really that’s his responsibility to get right while supporting the manager in his day job.
4. to 132. There are other qualities we might like e.g. tactical innovation, experience or alternatively youthfulness and new energy, tracksuit, gilet, media-friendliness, a “name” to inject some superficial excitement and optimism back into the club etc. But really all I care about is the first 3. Without those it looks an uphill battle or at least another throw of the dice that could just as easily send us even further backwards.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Be careful what you wish for on 15:22 - Feb 22 with 1941 views
Be careful what you wish for on 15:13 - Feb 22 by Darth_Koont
1. Man management The overriding priority for me, after nearly three years of us being less than the sum of our parts, is to get a team and squad that is pulling in the same direction on and off the pitch. I also don’t think League One is a lot more complicated than that either.
2. Keep it simple stupid See above. If we get promoted, and likely bottom half in terms of spending, we may well need some clever and creative thinking to give us an edge in the Championship. But let’s cross that bridge if and when we come to it and when we’ve got our reasonably talented squad getting more of the basics right and building confidence and momentum that way. The Oxford game showed the same overall shapelessness and lack of cutting edge on the ball, but we set up much more solidly and had a presence through the middle in attack so we competed much better from the start.
3. Responsibility There will likely continue to be a void in terms of organisation structure supporting the manager. But get on with it. By all means if the new manager can help shape that structure then great. But we need a manager on the training pitch and on the sidelines first and foremost. Hopefully Evans can see that the organisational aspect is something that needs to be developed in parallel and really that’s his responsibility to get right while supporting the manager in his day job.
4. to 132. There are other qualities we might like e.g. tactical innovation, experience or alternatively youthfulness and new energy, tracksuit, gilet, media-friendliness, a “name” to inject some superficial excitement and optimism back into the club etc. But really all I care about is the first 3. Without those it looks an uphill battle or at least another throw of the dice that could just as easily send us even further backwards.
Agree with all of that.
'I also don’t think League One is a lot more complicated than that either' is so true. Your points 1 & 2 are what wind me up more than anything.
Man for man there's no reason why this squad can't be competing at the top of this division, but Lambert has over complicated things at every opportunity. The system is over complicated, the reliance on 'playing out from the back' is over complicated, the fact we've got a 50 man squad is over complicated. When we set up with defenders who are asked to defend we look so much better. James Wilson isn't Franco Baresi but nobody at this level needs to be. It's all about the percentages, the more intent we are on popping it about in triangles between Holy, Kenlock and McGuinness the more trouble we're asking for. None of it is rocket science.
All Rotherham and Coventry had last year is a bit of quality and a lot of organisation. The two 2-0 defeats to Rotherham last season were all about the set up, organisation and discipline and nothing about man for man ability.
Be careful what you wish for on 15:22 - Feb 22 by clive_baker
Agree with all of that.
'I also don’t think League One is a lot more complicated than that either' is so true. Your points 1 & 2 are what wind me up more than anything.
Man for man there's no reason why this squad can't be competing at the top of this division, but Lambert has over complicated things at every opportunity. The system is over complicated, the reliance on 'playing out from the back' is over complicated, the fact we've got a 50 man squad is over complicated. When we set up with defenders who are asked to defend we look so much better. James Wilson isn't Franco Baresi but nobody at this level needs to be. It's all about the percentages, the more intent we are on popping it about in triangles between Holy, Kenlock and McGuinness the more trouble we're asking for. None of it is rocket science.
All Rotherham and Coventry had last year is a bit of quality and a lot of organisation. The two 2-0 defeats to Rotherham last season were all about the set up, organisation and discipline and nothing about man for man ability.
Yeah, I think ”overcomplicated” is exactly the right term.
It’s also been nagging me over the years that it seems as if Lambert (and his squad as a result) think they’re better than they are. And that they’re auditioning for bigger and better things. But I think that refusal to accept that we were in a dogfight to avoid relegation, and then that we’ve not really competed in League One but tried to make it all about what we want to do, has really caused us problems.
I think we need to accept that we’re not better than mid table in League One, and in many ways worse considering our financial advantage over most of the competition. But we are where we are because we’re not actually that competitive. And little to do with the players’ effort or fight, just that we’re not really set up to compete and earn the right to play.
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