| Calling Darth and other SNP people 12:02 - Feb 25 with 2809 views | giant_stow |
I don't understand the current bust up, so interested in your takes...
What's going on and who's side are you on? Are Salmond and Sillars right that something's rotten up there or should they be ignored as bitter yesterday men?
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:25 - Feb 25 with 1806 views | giant_stow |
Ta gb - I shall read all over lunch in a bit. Looks meaty! | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:25 - Feb 25 with 1799 views | Keno |
Cheers Glassers I'll have a read later
How it is playing out with the great mass of St Nicola's followers up there?
I have hear mutterings that some feel its a plot by the English to undermine to stop leading the Scots to a glorious independance |  |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:31 - Feb 25 with 1779 views | Churchman |
I read this last night. Ok it’s Neil and the awful Daily Mail. But if there is a bit of truth in it, it’s truly scary. I’d appreciate your view, GB and anyone else with far better knowledge than me (most of the planet).
What I will say is that 5 years ago, while I only saw overviews and summaries, my colleagues of the time had a lot of dealings with the SNP on Devolution projects so I got a bit of an idea of how they operated. Some of the gerrymandering accusations in the article do not surprise me. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 12:36]
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:38 - Feb 25 with 1754 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:31 - Feb 25 by Churchman |
I read this last night. Ok it’s Neil and the awful Daily Mail. But if there is a bit of truth in it, it’s truly scary. I’d appreciate your view, GB and anyone else with far better knowledge than me (most of the planet).
What I will say is that 5 years ago, while I only saw overviews and summaries, my colleagues of the time had a lot of dealings with the SNP on Devolution projects so I got a bit of an idea of how they operated. Some of the gerrymandering accusations in the article do not surprise me. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 12:36]
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The lengths that the Scottish government have gone to suppress this through the courts suggests theatre is a massive cover up. |  |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:40 - Feb 25 with 1737 views | Darth_Koont |
The Spectator view of Scotland isn’t background. It’s highly partisan and disingenuous. |  |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:43 - Feb 25 with 1730 views | Churchman |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:38 - Feb 25 by GlasgowBlue |
The lengths that the Scottish government have gone to suppress this through the courts suggests theatre is a massive cover up. |
I just get the feeling the truth of how they are operating is being suppressed through lack of credible opposition and thorough SNP control of media and everything else. There is a nasty feel of one party state about it. | | | |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:48 - Feb 25 with 1712 views | bluelagos |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:38 - Feb 25 by GlasgowBlue |
The lengths that the Scottish government have gone to suppress this through the courts suggests theatre is a massive cover up. |
The bit I cant get my head around is the allegation that NS misled the Scottish parliament by getting the date she knew of the allegations wrong by 4 days.
Why is that considered so important? Are the 4 days themselves crucial or is it the act of misleading parliament?
Will read up after the cricket, so probably in about half an hour tbh |  |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:52 - Feb 25 with 1708 views | Darth_Koont |
It’s political in-fighting that you’ll see in any party. But made worse by the nature of the Salmond case and amped up by a predominantly hostile media.
There’s certainly fault on both sides and gaps/lapses that need to be explained. But I think there’s far too much axe-grinding going on.
There’s bigger fish to fry. Although I can see this being blown out of proportion to blur the underlying independence arguments in exactly the same way Corbin was smeared re: antisemitism to neutralise his legitimate attack on the status quo. There’s certainly more indication of fault and a case to answer with the SNP but it’s an unwelcome and largely unnecessary diversion given Scottish Independence is bigger than party politics and especially in-fighting.
Even on the wider scale, the SNP is purely a broad church coalition towards independence. There are divisions and differences throughout but most people get that. What’s really interesting is how an independent parliament will look and how Scottish politics will develop once we get past the current unnatural situation in Westminster and Holyrood. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:11 - Feb 25 with 1651 views | WeWereZombies |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:40 - Feb 25 by Darth_Koont |
The Spectator view of Scotland isn’t background. It’s highly partisan and disingenuous. |
True, and I am sure that Glassers could have found more balanced reporting in The Scotsman or The Herald to present to us. That being said, Nicola does have a reputation for being the ultimate controlling Queen Bee with an iron grip on the workers she sends buzzing around. This is tempered by the good comparison that is made with Johnson in Westminster when it comes to caution with regard to the pandemic, clear and precise answers at First Minister's questions in Holyrood compared with the waffle from Westminster and a tone that chimes with most 'ordinary'* people in Scotland.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-inquirys-credibili
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19117120.alex-salmond-inquiry-snp-msp-says-p
*Actually there are no ordinary people in Scotland, even the most distatsteful jakey will have some complexity to the story of their life. |  |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:14 - Feb 25 with 1643 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:43 - Feb 25 by Churchman |
I just get the feeling the truth of how they are operating is being suppressed through lack of credible opposition and thorough SNP control of media and everything else. There is a nasty feel of one party state about it. |
So, no different to England then? |  |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:33 - Feb 25 with 1623 views | Darth_Koont |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:11 - Feb 25 by WeWereZombies |
True, and I am sure that Glassers could have found more balanced reporting in The Scotsman or The Herald to present to us. That being said, Nicola does have a reputation for being the ultimate controlling Queen Bee with an iron grip on the workers she sends buzzing around. This is tempered by the good comparison that is made with Johnson in Westminster when it comes to caution with regard to the pandemic, clear and precise answers at First Minister's questions in Holyrood compared with the waffle from Westminster and a tone that chimes with most 'ordinary'* people in Scotland.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-inquirys-credibili
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19117120.alex-salmond-inquiry-snp-msp-says-p
*Actually there are no ordinary people in Scotland, even the most distatsteful jakey will have some complexity to the story of their life. |
Agree with that. But whatever the personal case she has to answer, it would be typical for this to be used to avoid focusing on the bigger issues affecting Scotland that the SNP are looking to represent. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:37 - Feb 25 with 1613 views | giant_stow |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:52 - Feb 25 by Darth_Koont |
It’s political in-fighting that you’ll see in any party. But made worse by the nature of the Salmond case and amped up by a predominantly hostile media.
There’s certainly fault on both sides and gaps/lapses that need to be explained. But I think there’s far too much axe-grinding going on.
There’s bigger fish to fry. Although I can see this being blown out of proportion to blur the underlying independence arguments in exactly the same way Corbin was smeared re: antisemitism to neutralise his legitimate attack on the status quo. There’s certainly more indication of fault and a case to answer with the SNP but it’s an unwelcome and largely unnecessary diversion given Scottish Independence is bigger than party politics and especially in-fighting.
Even on the wider scale, the SNP is purely a broad church coalition towards independence. There are divisions and differences throughout but most people get that. What’s really interesting is how an independent parliament will look and how Scottish politics will develop once we get past the current unnatural situation in Westminster and Holyrood. |
Thanks for you thoughts mr. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:38 - Feb 25 with 1608 views | giant_stow |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:11 - Feb 25 by WeWereZombies |
True, and I am sure that Glassers could have found more balanced reporting in The Scotsman or The Herald to present to us. That being said, Nicola does have a reputation for being the ultimate controlling Queen Bee with an iron grip on the workers she sends buzzing around. This is tempered by the good comparison that is made with Johnson in Westminster when it comes to caution with regard to the pandemic, clear and precise answers at First Minister's questions in Holyrood compared with the waffle from Westminster and a tone that chimes with most 'ordinary'* people in Scotland.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-inquirys-credibili
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19117120.alex-salmond-inquiry-snp-msp-says-p
*Actually there are no ordinary people in Scotland, even the most distatsteful jakey will have some complexity to the story of their life. |
I'm having a scotland lunch - thanks for the links.... | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:44 - Feb 25 with 1593 views | Churchman |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:14 - Feb 25 by Ewan_Oozami |
So, no different to England then? |
I’m not talking about England or making that comparison. That’s another debate.
My question was around how the SNP operate and what has happened, what is likely to happen. If the SNP and NS are as pure as the driven snow, true democrats etc, unfairly being smeared by the evil Edward the First etc etc, fine. I’m just interested as an outside observer and rather horrified at what I read, not least because of the snippets I do know about the SNP from the past.
The Scotsman and the Herald are alleged to be SNP controlled. Again, I’d be interested to know the truth. | | | |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:52 - Feb 25 with 1567 views | WeWereZombies |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:44 - Feb 25 by Churchman |
I’m not talking about England or making that comparison. That’s another debate.
My question was around how the SNP operate and what has happened, what is likely to happen. If the SNP and NS are as pure as the driven snow, true democrats etc, unfairly being smeared by the evil Edward the First etc etc, fine. I’m just interested as an outside observer and rather horrified at what I read, not least because of the snippets I do know about the SNP from the past.
The Scotsman and the Herald are alleged to be SNP controlled. Again, I’d be interested to know the truth. |
The Scotsman SNP controlled? Whilst the paper treads a cautious path on the independence question, many in Scotland do, it has never seemed slow to cast a beady eye upon the performance of any political party. It is the embodiment of a scornful Edinburgh looking out upon the World from Morningside with an air of weary disappointment...before it counts its millions and decides to make the porridge with some milk in it this morning.
The Herald is more sympathetic towards independence and the SNP but has journalistic standards, if you want to see a paper that tub thumps for the SNP in the way the Sun and The Mail do for the Tories then try The National for a real dose of Jocks away. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 14:43 - Feb 25 with 1499 views | Darth_Koont |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 13:52 - Feb 25 by WeWereZombies |
The Scotsman SNP controlled? Whilst the paper treads a cautious path on the independence question, many in Scotland do, it has never seemed slow to cast a beady eye upon the performance of any political party. It is the embodiment of a scornful Edinburgh looking out upon the World from Morningside with an air of weary disappointment...before it counts its millions and decides to make the porridge with some milk in it this morning.
The Herald is more sympathetic towards independence and the SNP but has journalistic standards, if you want to see a paper that tub thumps for the SNP in the way the Sun and The Mail do for the Tories then try The National for a real dose of Jocks away. |
Haha. The SNP controlling the Scotsman. That’s quite funny.
I think the perception south of the border is way off and I think they’d take this far more seriously if they knew that independence has become the majority view despite the media in Scotland, not because of it. As you say, outlets like the Herald can be swayed by reality and are also probably seeing which way the wind is blowing. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 15:13 - Feb 25 with 1450 views | bluelagos |
Very hard to come to an opinion after reading those.
Cheers anyhow. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 15:14 - Feb 25 with 1447 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 12:40 - Feb 25 by Darth_Koont |
The Spectator view of Scotland isn’t background. It’s highly partisan and disingenuous. |
What issues raised in the three articles do you find to be incorrect? Deal with the doughnut and not the hole Koonters. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 15:21 - Feb 25 with 1429 views | Darth_Koont |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 15:14 - Feb 25 by GlasgowBlue |
What issues raised in the three articles do you find to be incorrect? Deal with the doughnut and not the hole Koonters. |
No.
You, Andrew Neil, Fraser Nelson, Stephen Daisley et al deserve to be ignored. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:05 - Feb 25 with 1349 views | Crawfordsboot |
My take on this is to note:
There certainly appears to be a personal war between NS and AS.
The Conservative press south of the border and the various opposition parties north of the border are delighted to see this run as it undermines the party seeking independence for Scotland. They are happy to do whatever they can to fan the flames.
For AS he wants to make as much noise as possible around NS and SNP actions to divert public attention away from his seedy and unacceptable behaviour.
Let’s not forget that the underlying issue was of a sad fat privileged politician compromising female staff to the extend that his civil servants implemented rules such that those women should not be required to work alone with him unchaperoned.
Lastly - Generally I find it sound policy to adopt the opposite view to anything propounded in the Daily Mail |  | | |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:09 - Feb 25 with 1339 views | giant_stow |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:05 - Feb 25 by Crawfordsboot |
My take on this is to note:
There certainly appears to be a personal war between NS and AS.
The Conservative press south of the border and the various opposition parties north of the border are delighted to see this run as it undermines the party seeking independence for Scotland. They are happy to do whatever they can to fan the flames.
For AS he wants to make as much noise as possible around NS and SNP actions to divert public attention away from his seedy and unacceptable behaviour.
Let’s not forget that the underlying issue was of a sad fat privileged politician compromising female staff to the extend that his civil servants implemented rules such that those women should not be required to work alone with him unchaperoned.
Lastly - Generally I find it sound policy to adopt the opposite view to anything propounded in the Daily Mail |
I think one of Zombie's links metionned that alleged private rule about him not being left alone with women, but also points out that that could be true and Salmond could still have a point. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:18 - Feb 25 with 1326 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 15:21 - Feb 25 by Darth_Koont |
No.
You, Andrew Neil, Fraser Nelson, Stephen Daisley et al deserve to be ignored. |
Oh dear. It’s one cult to another for you isn’t it. All hail Nicola. | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:32 - Feb 25 with 1300 views | Darth_Koont |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:18 - Feb 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Oh dear. It’s one cult to another for you isn’t it. All hail Nicola. |
And another smeary disingenuous campaign for you rather than face the underlying arguments and decades of sub-standard democratic representation via Westminster.
Can’t wait for your “SNP cybernats are antisemitic extremists” episode ... 😴 | |
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| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:47 - Feb 25 with 1253 views | Churchman |
| Calling Darth and other SNP people on 16:32 - Feb 25 by Darth_Koont |
And another smeary disingenuous campaign for you rather than face the underlying arguments and decades of sub-standard democratic representation via Westminster.
Can’t wait for your “SNP cybernats are antisemitic extremists” episode ... 😴 |
Just out of curiosity what part of representation in U.K. Parliament is sub standard? As far as I’m aware Scottish seat representation of 47 seats for 7% of the U.K. population is about right. Scotland has its own devolved administration now. When Scotland returns to the EU, it will amount to 1% of the population so will presumably have 1% representation.
As I say, I’m just curious - it’s up to the Scots what they do. It’s their business. | | | |
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