| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. 08:04 - Sep 23 with 1276 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/22/keir-starmer-essay-sets-labour-
Keir Starmer has set Labour on a decisive course toward the centre ground in a 35-page statement of intent that emphasises the values of hard work, contributing to society and partnership with the private sector.
Edit...lol....gubberment by sound bite...
“The next Labour government must deliver sustainable growth, repair the public finances and give people the means to take back control.” [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 8:07]
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:21 - Sep 23 with 930 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Ffs it gets better....this should fix the ills in our society...
'Highlighting the challenges facing children from low-income backgrounds, he says Labour would help provide the “soft skills” that allow private school pupils to emerge with “enviable self-confidence, self-worth and belief,”
That would mean ensuring that by the age of ten they have the opportunity to “play an instrument, join a competitive sports team, visit the seaside, the countryside, or the city, go to cultural institutions, ride a bike and learn how to debate their ideas.” | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:31 - Sep 23 with 884 views | WD19 |
“Take back control”. Sounds dangerous. Mad lefty. Practically a communist. |  | | |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:34 - Sep 23 with 874 views | Herbivore |
Yeah, that's barely even Tory-lite stuff. Some of it is practically straight from Thatcher and he's trying to own the Brexit rhetoric as well. I get the need to distance the party from Corbyn but this really doesn't come across as offering a genuine alternative. [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 8:37]
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:37 - Sep 23 with 856 views | pointofblue |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:34 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
Yeah, that's barely even Tory-lite stuff. Some of it is practically straight from Thatcher and he's trying to own the Brexit rhetoric as well. I get the need to distance the party from Corbyn but this really doesn't come across as offering a genuine alternative. [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 8:37]
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There’s distancing the party from Corbyn and there’s trying to turn the party into a competent version of the Conservatives. I suppose it worked for Blair but he had support in Scotland and Wales to increase his numbers. |  |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:39 - Sep 23 with 835 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:31 - Sep 23 by WD19 |
“Take back control”. Sounds dangerous. Mad lefty. Practically a communist. |
I'm almost certain I heard that catchy slogan before somewhere! | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:39 - Sep 23 with 831 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:37 - Sep 23 by pointofblue |
There’s distancing the party from Corbyn and there’s trying to turn the party into a competent version of the Conservatives. I suppose it worked for Blair but he had support in Scotland and Wales to increase his numbers. |
Indeed. There's room for a credible alternative where the policies and rhetoric are genuinely different, but this just reads like something that call me Dave would have come up with. [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 8:53]
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:52 - Sep 23 with 784 views | Guthrum |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:21 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ffs it gets better....this should fix the ills in our society...
'Highlighting the challenges facing children from low-income backgrounds, he says Labour would help provide the “soft skills” that allow private school pupils to emerge with “enviable self-confidence, self-worth and belief,”
That would mean ensuring that by the age of ten they have the opportunity to “play an instrument, join a competitive sports team, visit the seaside, the countryside, or the city, go to cultural institutions, ride a bike and learn how to debate their ideas.” |
That is a principle which I thoroughly agree with. To concentrate less on the mechanical passing of exams (for league table purposes) and instead to provide a more well-rounded education.
Certainly never again to exclude a pupil because they might not get the grades desired (there have been cases). |  |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:55 - Sep 23 with 766 views | Mookamoo |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:39 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
Indeed. There's room for a credible alternative where the policies and rhetoric are genuinely different, but this just reads like something that call me Dave would have come up with. [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 8:53]
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Its like reading some kind of placeholder statement while something better is worked out behind the scenes. Except they're not doing anything better. He must realise now he is doomed come the next GE. |  | | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:55 - Sep 23 with 766 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:52 - Sep 23 by Guthrum |
That is a principle which I thoroughly agree with. To concentrate less on the mechanical passing of exams (for league table purposes) and instead to provide a more well-rounded education.
Certainly never again to exclude a pupil because they might not get the grades desired (there have been cases). |
It's a nice idea in principle but until we have a society where kids aren't going to school hungry then it's all a bit "let them eat cake". The whole thing is very focused on equality of opportunity but we know from decades' worth of experience that equality of opportunity is meaningless without some moves towards addressing huge material inequalities. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:00 - Sep 23 with 744 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:52 - Sep 23 by Guthrum |
That is a principle which I thoroughly agree with. To concentrate less on the mechanical passing of exams (for league table purposes) and instead to provide a more well-rounded education.
Certainly never again to exclude a pupil because they might not get the grades desired (there have been cases). |
Just so long as they are 'offered an opportunity ' and a box gets ticked. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:03 - Sep 23 with 738 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:55 - Sep 23 by Mookamoo |
Its like reading some kind of placeholder statement while something better is worked out behind the scenes. Except they're not doing anything better. He must realise now he is doomed come the next GE. |
If he lasts that long. I can't see this essay doing much to unite the party and its supporters. Whether that is actually possible anymore is a legitimate question, but this won't do it. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:07 - Sep 23 with 718 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:03 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
If he lasts that long. I can't see this essay doing much to unite the party and its supporters. Whether that is actually possible anymore is a legitimate question, but this won't do it. |
What a waste of good striding....
Aides say he worked on it — and on his crucial party conference speech — striding the beaches of Devon on a family summer holiday. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:11 - Sep 23 with 715 views | Guthrum |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:55 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
It's a nice idea in principle but until we have a society where kids aren't going to school hungry then it's all a bit "let them eat cake". The whole thing is very focused on equality of opportunity but we know from decades' worth of experience that equality of opportunity is meaningless without some moves towards addressing huge material inequalities. |
Indeed. But if we put off tackling the one until the other is solved, then nothing will end up being done about either.
Plus if we are turning out youngsters who have realised their full potential to think and analyse* (rather than just writing down the answer specified by the curriculum), we might have the politicians, voters and innovators to get us out of the economic situation.
* Edit: I should have put "initiative" in there as well. [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 9:12]
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:15 - Sep 23 with 692 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:11 - Sep 23 by Guthrum |
Indeed. But if we put off tackling the one until the other is solved, then nothing will end up being done about either.
Plus if we are turning out youngsters who have realised their full potential to think and analyse* (rather than just writing down the answer specified by the curriculum), we might have the politicians, voters and innovators to get us out of the economic situation.
* Edit: I should have put "initiative" in there as well. [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 9:12]
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But trying to offer these things first is getting it arse about face. You need to improve the material conditions people are living in, particularly those in poverty, before you start offering them the chance to learn the violin or play rugby. Having worked with deprived families for much of my career I can honestly say that these kinds of opportunities would have been meaningless to most of them and likely wouldn't have been accessed. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:15 - Sep 23 with 690 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 08:55 - Sep 23 by Mookamoo |
Its like reading some kind of placeholder statement while something better is worked out behind the scenes. Except they're not doing anything better. He must realise now he is doomed come the next GE. |
I had high hopes for him and after his first couple of sessions at PMQ's I thought he was going to crucify Boris, but it's as if someone has taken half of his brain away. |  |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:17 - Sep 23 with 677 views | Guthrum |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:00 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Just so long as they are 'offered an opportunity ' and a box gets ticked. |
If you don't get offered an opportunity, it's much harder (and more expensive) to actually do.
You may not be able to take your children and their friends to the theatre, or on a camping trip, but schools have the resources* and organisation to be able to do so.
* Staff to supervise, the ability to mass book, often transport - money is a different matter. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:25 - Sep 23 with 668 views | Guthrum |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:15 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
But trying to offer these things first is getting it arse about face. You need to improve the material conditions people are living in, particularly those in poverty, before you start offering them the chance to learn the violin or play rugby. Having worked with deprived families for much of my career I can honestly say that these kinds of opportunities would have been meaningless to most of them and likely wouldn't have been accessed. |
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. Do both at once, lift them out of poverty and give their children the best developmental chances at the same time.
I know that's more expensive, but people will just have to learn that if they want to live in a nice country, they will have to pay more - both in taxes and for the Amazon gubbins they are furiously buying. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:28 - Sep 23 with 657 views | chicoazul |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:25 - Sep 23 by Guthrum |
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. Do both at once, lift them out of poverty and give their children the best developmental chances at the same time.
I know that's more expensive, but people will just have to learn that if they want to live in a nice country, they will have to pay more - both in taxes and for the Amazon gubbins they are furiously buying. |
Pay more? The UK is already a middle to high tax economy. I don’t think more taxation is the answer. And if people are lucky enough to live in the UK they do live in a nice country relatively speaking anyway. |  |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:40 - Sep 23 with 611 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:15 - Sep 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I had high hopes for him and after his first couple of sessions at PMQ's I thought he was going to crucify Boris, but it's as if someone has taken half of his brain away. |
As I lawyer he was forensic in the way he dismantled Johnson's bluster. But as I said at the time, this works well in a quiet room and would be quite different with the return of the Westminster pantomime. It's harder to cut through with 300+ Tories heckling your every word.
On a side note; Angela Rayner was very impressive against Rabb yesterday. She's quite likeable and came across as more human than Starmer.
I think she would be a real handful for Johnson. Her background contrasts perfectly against Johnson's in a way the privately educated Corbyn and former DPP Sir Kier doesn't. |  |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:56 - Sep 23 with 575 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:25 - Sep 23 by Guthrum |
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. Do both at once, lift them out of poverty and give their children the best developmental chances at the same time.
I know that's more expensive, but people will just have to learn that if they want to live in a nice country, they will have to pay more - both in taxes and for the Amazon gubbins they are furiously buying. |
I agree on the first point, my worry is that so far Starmer is offering absolutely nothing on how to address the wider structural issues and inequalities. Without that the other ideas don't really offer anything of substance. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:58 - Sep 23 with 566 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:28 - Sep 23 by chicoazul |
Pay more? The UK is already a middle to high tax economy. I don’t think more taxation is the answer. And if people are lucky enough to live in the UK they do live in a nice country relatively speaking anyway. |
Corporation tax in the UK is low compared to other large economies. We really aren't an especially high tax economy taking everything in the round. I'd also suggest that any new taxes should be targeted at the most wealthy rather than being universal. Those who benefit the most from a society based on gross inequality should have to do more to ameliorate the impact of that inequality on those at the other end of the spectrum. | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 10:05 - Sep 23 with 544 views | chicoazul |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:58 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
Corporation tax in the UK is low compared to other large economies. We really aren't an especially high tax economy taking everything in the round. I'd also suggest that any new taxes should be targeted at the most wealthy rather than being universal. Those who benefit the most from a society based on gross inequality should have to do more to ameliorate the impact of that inequality on those at the other end of the spectrum. |
More Or Less on R4 did a big thing about tax recently after Javid was spouting about the UK being low tax. Turns out we are mid to high on taxation comparably speaking. You and I and everyone else pay a lot of tax. I agree with you on everything else.
I think it was this episode; https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09vyy6h | |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 10:11 - Sep 23 with 519 views | itfcjoe |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:58 - Sep 23 by Herbivore |
Corporation tax in the UK is low compared to other large economies. We really aren't an especially high tax economy taking everything in the round. I'd also suggest that any new taxes should be targeted at the most wealthy rather than being universal. Those who benefit the most from a society based on gross inequality should have to do more to ameliorate the impact of that inequality on those at the other end of the spectrum. |
If the Tories or Labour, genuinely want to "make work pay", then they ahve to go after wealth and not income - there seems little interest from the incumbent of doing so |  |
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| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 10:12 - Sep 23 with 511 views | mylittletown |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 09:15 - Sep 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I had high hopes for him and after his first couple of sessions at PMQ's I thought he was going to crucify Boris, but it's as if someone has taken half of his brain away. |
Starmer still regularly destroys every nonsensical reply that Johnson comes up with, but nobody cares.
Everyone knows that Johnson is a liar and a charlatan, but a significant number still think that he is 'just what we need at the moment'.
The willingness of the less well-off to be impressed by toffs who despise them continues to amaze me. |  | | |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 10:16 - Sep 23 with 495 views | Herbivore |
| Woohoo! You get to chose between Conservative and conservative again. on 10:11 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
If the Tories or Labour, genuinely want to "make work pay", then they ahve to go after wealth and not income - there seems little interest from the incumbent of doing so |
They've essentially done the opposite with how they're funding social care. But I'm not sure Labour has any interest in going after wealth either, not currently. | |
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