| Reid's remit and getting the results on the big days 11:27 - Nov 22 with 2321 views | stringy |
Stepping back from it all, it seems that while the new structure in place running the club is making all the right moves, and getting drift-away fans to return for these big Xmas games, ultimately what happens on the field is the only way to keep this momentum going (an interpretation that will have no one falling off their seat in surprise).
Cook has been previously been successful with his chosen team set-up; someone here the other day noted that this structure is pretty much followed by every team above us (or at least none of them are playing 'classic' 4-4-2), but within all of that to what extent do the genuinely successful teams have (a) a preferred non-4-4-2 line up, *but* (b) are tactically flexible in the moment to win the game when Plan A isn't panning out?
All of this is a long-winded way of returning to the concern that Cook is perhaps a little intransigent in his outlook, and that his coaching staff may be too junior to challenge him, and me wondering *what is Peter Reid's remit in all of this*. Is he in a role whereby he can suggest/push for different tactics, be that shutting up shop when ahead (e.g. Cambridge), or going 4-4-2 (with Pigott or whomever) when the usual scheme isn't working out?
I fear we are being worked out, and if these bumper Xmas games fizzle out results wise all the good intentions of Ashton et al will be for nowt.
Seems we are being very forward looking and professional with stats, marketing, physical training etc. but all a bit pointless if how things are managed at team level are old school / stuck in one form.
ho hum |  | | |  |
| Yes, this..... on 11:39 - Nov 22 with 2258 views | Bloots |
....if we are going to have to accept that this is a longer term project than many of us (myself included) want, then there is little point having an "old school" manager in charge.
I'd love for us to take a punt on a younger man with fresh ideas and more flexibility.
The recruitment of someone like Cook can only be to get a quick return, building an "ethos and footballing philosophy" around someone so stuck in their ways seems pointless to me.
He's basically Mick McCarthy, but better at setting up teams to attack and worse at setting up teams to defend. [Post edited 22 Nov 2021 11:39]
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Yes, this..... on 11:46 - Nov 22 with 2198 views | homer_123 |
| Yes, this..... on 11:39 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
....if we are going to have to accept that this is a longer term project than many of us (myself included) want, then there is little point having an "old school" manager in charge.
I'd love for us to take a punt on a younger man with fresh ideas and more flexibility.
The recruitment of someone like Cook can only be to get a quick return, building an "ethos and footballing philosophy" around someone so stuck in their ways seems pointless to me.
He's basically Mick McCarthy, but better at setting up teams to attack and worse at setting up teams to defend. [Post edited 22 Nov 2021 11:39]
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Hurst [cough] |  |
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| Agreed, but you'd like to think.... on 11:51 - Nov 22 with 2183 views | Bloots |
| Yes, this..... on 11:46 - Nov 22 by homer_123 |
Hurst [cough] |
....that "Super CEO" would make a decent appointment.
I'd love us to have looked at someone like Liam Manning, in fact I expect we could tempt him here now. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Yes, this..... on 12:08 - Nov 22 with 2104 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yes, this..... on 11:39 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
....if we are going to have to accept that this is a longer term project than many of us (myself included) want, then there is little point having an "old school" manager in charge.
I'd love for us to take a punt on a younger man with fresh ideas and more flexibility.
The recruitment of someone like Cook can only be to get a quick return, building an "ethos and footballing philosophy" around someone so stuck in their ways seems pointless to me.
He's basically Mick McCarthy, but better at setting up teams to attack and worse at setting up teams to defend. [Post edited 22 Nov 2021 11:39]
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I think that’s nonsense to be honest. Cook is a fairly good definition of an ethos/philosophy manager rather than a pragmatist like Mick. |  |
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| Yes, this..... on 12:13 - Nov 22 with 2066 views | stringy |
| Yes, this..... on 12:08 - Nov 22 by Darth_Koont |
I think that’s nonsense to be honest. Cook is a fairly good definition of an ethos/philosophy manager rather than a pragmatist like Mick. |
I would like to think in true 'Moneyball' fashion there are some stats out there to show if there is a direct correlation between 'tactical flexibility' and success, rather than 'playing system X' and success (be that hoofball, gegenpress or whatever) | | | |
| Reid's remit and getting the results on the big days on 12:15 - Nov 22 with 2060 views | Radlett_blue |
A common criticism of Cook at his previous clubs was an inflexibility of shape & tactics. That's evident here, with subs usually being like-for-like. That's preferable to the constant changing of shape & personnel under Lambert & ultimately Cook will be judged on results, with a failure to make the play offs likely to lead to his sacking. |  |
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| Yes, this..... on 12:16 - Nov 22 with 2036 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yes, this..... on 12:13 - Nov 22 by stringy |
I would like to think in true 'Moneyball' fashion there are some stats out there to show if there is a direct correlation between 'tactical flexibility' and success, rather than 'playing system X' and success (be that hoofball, gegenpress or whatever) |
But a pragmatist tends to be the most tactically flexible. Like Mick who did at times manage to make the team greater than the sum of its parts at times and played pretty much every formation depending on the opposition and the players available. | |
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| Apologies, I should have said.... on 12:19 - Nov 22 with 2005 views | Bloots |
| Yes, this..... on 12:08 - Nov 22 by Darth_Koont |
I think that’s nonsense to be honest. Cook is a fairly good definition of an ethos/philosophy manager rather than a pragmatist like Mick. |
...."successful" ethos and philosophy. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Yes, this..... on 12:21 - Nov 22 with 1998 views | Radlett_blue |
| Yes, this..... on 12:16 - Nov 22 by Darth_Koont |
But a pragmatist tends to be the most tactically flexible. Like Mick who did at times manage to make the team greater than the sum of its parts at times and played pretty much every formation depending on the opposition and the players available. |
Yes, Mick liked to mirror the opposition formation, which was OK if grinding out enough points to avoid relegation was the objective. | |
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| Well we are closer to.... on 12:26 - Nov 22 with 1970 views | Bloots |
| Yes, this..... on 12:21 - Nov 22 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, Mick liked to mirror the opposition formation, which was OK if grinding out enough points to avoid relegation was the objective. |
...the bottom 4 than we are the top 4.
Probably best to not think about that though..... | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Apologies, I should have said.... on 12:26 - Nov 22 with 1961 views | Darth_Koont |
| Apologies, I should have said.... on 12:19 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
...."successful" ethos and philosophy. |
Which his record says he is, compared to the smaller and more tumultuous sample here. | |
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| Reid's remit and getting the results on the big days on 12:42 - Nov 22 with 1908 views | HighgateBlue |
| Reid's remit and getting the results on the big days on 12:15 - Nov 22 by Radlett_blue |
A common criticism of Cook at his previous clubs was an inflexibility of shape & tactics. That's evident here, with subs usually being like-for-like. That's preferable to the constant changing of shape & personnel under Lambert & ultimately Cook will be judged on results, with a failure to make the play offs likely to lead to his sacking. |
Agreed entirely.
I think if we manage to make the playoffs, even by scraping in, then that would require such a marked improvement in results that Cook would have earned another crack at League 1 with Town. If we don't make the playoffs, and especially if the points per game tally and league placing is similar to or worse than the last two seasons, I think that should be curtains for him. |  | | |
| Agreed, but you'd like to think.... on 14:02 - Nov 22 with 1748 views | Jon_456 |
| Agreed, but you'd like to think.... on 11:51 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
....that "Super CEO" would make a decent appointment.
I'd love us to have looked at someone like Liam Manning, in fact I expect we could tempt him here now. |
You want us to employ a guy who has managed a total of 51 games in professional football, just 17 in League One, on what basis? Because he's young? |  | | |
| Yes, this..... on 14:06 - Nov 22 with 1738 views | itfcjoe |
| Yes, this..... on 11:39 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
....if we are going to have to accept that this is a longer term project than many of us (myself included) want, then there is little point having an "old school" manager in charge.
I'd love for us to take a punt on a younger man with fresh ideas and more flexibility.
The recruitment of someone like Cook can only be to get a quick return, building an "ethos and footballing philosophy" around someone so stuck in their ways seems pointless to me.
He's basically Mick McCarthy, but better at setting up teams to attack and worse at setting up teams to defend. [Post edited 22 Nov 2021 11:39]
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Yep, it feels like Cook is almost a 'gun for hire' just to get us out of this league and longer term someone more modern will come in and someone who will be more subservient to the structure in place being put around the manager.
If Cook were to go, I'd be fascinated to see who we would recruit to replace him - I think it could be a big name, although have heard whispers of others that they like that are still early on in their footballing coaching journey and who wouldn't be seen as ready as yet. |  |
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| It's the type of appointment that.... on 14:27 - Nov 22 with 1647 views | Bloots |
| Agreed, but you'd like to think.... on 14:02 - Nov 22 by Jon_456 |
You want us to employ a guy who has managed a total of 51 games in professional football, just 17 in League One, on what basis? Because he's young? |
....I would like to see here, on the assumption that we have to accept that Cook won't get us promoted this year.
And yes, I'd rather have a young developing coach who has been in academies and teams around the world learning his trade rather than a lower league journeyman who can only play one way. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Yes, this..... on 14:32 - Nov 22 with 1607 views | BseaBlue |
| Yes, this..... on 14:06 - Nov 22 by itfcjoe |
Yep, it feels like Cook is almost a 'gun for hire' just to get us out of this league and longer term someone more modern will come in and someone who will be more subservient to the structure in place being put around the manager.
If Cook were to go, I'd be fascinated to see who we would recruit to replace him - I think it could be a big name, although have heard whispers of others that they like that are still early on in their footballing coaching journey and who wouldn't be seen as ready as yet. |
If it was up to me, I would go all out for Mogga.
He has done an incredible job at turning Blackburn around from the mess that they were in when he took over.
Whether he would relocate and drop down a division is another matter though. |  | | |
| Yes, this..... on 14:42 - Nov 22 with 1555 views | itfcjoe |
| Yes, this..... on 14:32 - Nov 22 by BseaBlue |
If it was up to me, I would go all out for Mogga.
He has done an incredible job at turning Blackburn around from the mess that they were in when he took over.
Whether he would relocate and drop down a division is another matter though. |
I don't really see the point in a Mogga style appointment personally, as much as I love the guy - under Evans he'd have been a great appointment, but we need a manager who has the potential ceiling of being a PL manager. | |
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| Yes, this..... on 14:43 - Nov 22 with 1543 views | Radlett_blue |
| Yes, this..... on 14:42 - Nov 22 by itfcjoe |
I don't really see the point in a Mogga style appointment personally, as much as I love the guy - under Evans he'd have been a great appointment, but we need a manager who has the potential ceiling of being a PL manager. |
Like Paul Cook, eh?
(Ducks). | |
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| Yes, this..... on 16:02 - Nov 22 with 1387 views | PhilTWTD |
| Yes, this..... on 14:32 - Nov 22 by BseaBlue |
If it was up to me, I would go all out for Mogga.
He has done an incredible job at turning Blackburn around from the mess that they were in when he took over.
Whether he would relocate and drop down a division is another matter though. |
If and when there's a change it won't be a 'manager' but a 'head coach'. As I've said before, Michael Appleton was the man who had been identified prior to ME appointing Paul Cook and it would be someone in that mould. |  | | |
| Yes, this..... on 16:05 - Nov 22 with 1375 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Yes, this..... on 16:02 - Nov 22 by PhilTWTD |
If and when there's a change it won't be a 'manager' but a 'head coach'. As I've said before, Michael Appleton was the man who had been identified prior to ME appointing Paul Cook and it would be someone in that mould. |
Going from Cook to Appleton would be a massive downgrade. |  |
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| Yes, this..... on 16:09 - Nov 22 with 1356 views | PhilTWTD |
| Yes, this..... on 16:05 - Nov 22 by Reuser_is_God |
Going from Cook to Appleton would be a massive downgrade. |
I'm not sure it would be, although he obviously hasn't achieved the promotions that PC has. I like the way his teams play and the way he rebuilt the squad at Lincoln over a relatively short space of time to get them challenging at the top of League One - which is probably above their natural level - was impressive. | | | |
| Yes, this..... on 16:37 - Nov 22 with 1267 views | Churchman |
| Yes, this..... on 14:42 - Nov 22 by itfcjoe |
I don't really see the point in a Mogga style appointment personally, as much as I love the guy - under Evans he'd have been a great appointment, but we need a manager who has the potential ceiling of being a PL manager. |
I gather Mowbray would rather have eaten glass than work for Evans - that alone endears him to me as a man of good judgement.
Seriously, I’d employ him like a shot. He knows what the club should look like, gets the culture, knows the area etc. He’s got WBA to the PL and knows the Chairman. He is organised and nobody would complain about his coach only being qualified to wash the budgie smugglers.
The only question I’d have is his age and his hunger to do the long haul. |  | | |
| Yes, this..... on 16:42 - Nov 22 with 1243 views | Beckets |
| Yes, this..... on 16:02 - Nov 22 by PhilTWTD |
If and when there's a change it won't be a 'manager' but a 'head coach'. As I've said before, Michael Appleton was the man who had been identified prior to ME appointing Paul Cook and it would be someone in that mould. |
I think this is why people are overstating Cook’s security of tenure here. He’s an old style manager not a head coach so therefore doesn’t fit the O’Leary/Ashton preferred model. |  | | |
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