| I wish I had voted Remain now. 23:01 - Jan 28 with 2947 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I was just thinking how more of the same was going to get us all to the promised land of milk and honey for all, less stuff and an entirely necessary reset of economies and society...I feel obliged to list all the ways that was going to happen so here goes...
1.
Hmmmmm! |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 23:07 - Jan 28 with 2446 views | XYZ |
1. Cornwall, one of the UK's many deprived regions, wouldn't lose massive regional grant.
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 23:10 - Jan 28 with 2416 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 23:07 - Jan 28 by XYZ |
1. Cornwall, one of the UK's many deprived regions, wouldn't lose massive regional grant.
Want some more?
next ... |
Haha....levelling up!! Is this where you break their legs and give them crutches? | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 01:10 - Jan 29 with 2295 views | XYZ |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 23:10 - Jan 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Haha....levelling up!! Is this where you break their legs and give them crutches? |
Brexit is levelling down. Rapidly.
But you're OK aren't you? The UK (or what's left of it) is never going to sign up for your revolution.
Meanwhile you seem content with rising levels of pain and hunger amongst the less fortunate. | | | |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 02:05 - Jan 29 with 2265 views | HARRY10 |
A brexiter, bare facing lying....again
The only thing from Remainers was a warning of the dire effects of the UK turning inward, and trying to set the clock back 70 odds years.
Given the UK is in the process of turning it's back on being a global trader, there is not any knowledge of what the UK would be.
Still, like Johnson, brexiteers seen uncapable o-f not lying. | | | |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 02:49 - Jan 29 with 2216 views | jeera |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 23:10 - Jan 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Haha....levelling up!! Is this where you break their legs and give them crutches? |
Neither this post nor your OP seems to make any sense to be honest.
You seem to be chucking cliches onto the page and hoping it somehow adds up.
There are some very poor parts of the country and Cornwall qualifies. This 'Levelling up' term is a recent Tory concept as you know, so you will also be familiar of the accusations that much of the funding is being allocated according to potential power play rather than a genuine consideration for the people in each area.
Now the allocation of any monies will be controlled by central government which means it's yet another department that is a closed shop, open to corruption, 'stick the cash where it most benefits us and not them' scenario.
Monopolising power like this is never a good idea and I'm surprised you have not only bought into it, but are now insistent on it.
Despite not really knowing what it could mean for real people in real circumstances.
That or you just don't care the way you make out. |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 07:14 - Jan 29 with 2051 views | WeWereZombies |
In fairness to your point, the Common Market's Common Agricultural Policy did have a pretty dire impact upon the British countryside in general - but it was decades ago that we lost maybe half of our hedgerows and much of that may have happened with or without Europe. The point is that the European Union do eventually learn from these mistakes and farming grants these days normally have incentives to carry out environmental and ecological restoration as part of financial assistance to agriculture.
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/conservation/conservation-and-sustainability/ad
On the Cornwall point that has been raised in other posts, see also Northern Ireland. Although as well as increased social deprivation leaving the European Union has also raised the danger level of sectarian violence too. An appalling mistake that goes against the democratic voting intentions of that nation.
However there is no pragmatic way back now, France is likely to block any return that does not involve the United Kingdom adopting the Euro and surrendering national reserves. So all we can do is profoundly forgive those who voted Leave.
But it is important to never forget. [Post edited 29 Jan 2022 7:16]
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 08:01 - Jan 29 with 1969 views | fab_lover |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 07:14 - Jan 29 by WeWereZombies |
In fairness to your point, the Common Market's Common Agricultural Policy did have a pretty dire impact upon the British countryside in general - but it was decades ago that we lost maybe half of our hedgerows and much of that may have happened with or without Europe. The point is that the European Union do eventually learn from these mistakes and farming grants these days normally have incentives to carry out environmental and ecological restoration as part of financial assistance to agriculture.
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/conservation/conservation-and-sustainability/ad
On the Cornwall point that has been raised in other posts, see also Northern Ireland. Although as well as increased social deprivation leaving the European Union has also raised the danger level of sectarian violence too. An appalling mistake that goes against the democratic voting intentions of that nation.
However there is no pragmatic way back now, France is likely to block any return that does not involve the United Kingdom adopting the Euro and surrendering national reserves. So all we can do is profoundly forgive those who voted Leave.
But it is important to never forget. [Post edited 29 Jan 2022 7:16]
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The only way in which I can forgive people who voted Leave is if I feel their mental competency didn't allow them to make a full impact assessment.
Sadly, that's far too high a percentage of the population for my liking.
IMHO it was "£350m a week on the NHS" which was the tipping factor, which shows you:
a) how the majority don't understand what a fiat economy is;
b) how the majority don't understand how much the EU subscription actually cost them per head, and what an incredibly good deal it was. Germany ++ in fact.
I'm not going to "forgive". Those responsible should be tried for treason. |  | | |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 08:12 - Jan 29 with 1915 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 07:14 - Jan 29 by WeWereZombies |
In fairness to your point, the Common Market's Common Agricultural Policy did have a pretty dire impact upon the British countryside in general - but it was decades ago that we lost maybe half of our hedgerows and much of that may have happened with or without Europe. The point is that the European Union do eventually learn from these mistakes and farming grants these days normally have incentives to carry out environmental and ecological restoration as part of financial assistance to agriculture.
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/conservation/conservation-and-sustainability/ad
On the Cornwall point that has been raised in other posts, see also Northern Ireland. Although as well as increased social deprivation leaving the European Union has also raised the danger level of sectarian violence too. An appalling mistake that goes against the democratic voting intentions of that nation.
However there is no pragmatic way back now, France is likely to block any return that does not involve the United Kingdom adopting the Euro and surrendering national reserves. So all we can do is profoundly forgive those who voted Leave.
But it is important to never forget. [Post edited 29 Jan 2022 7:16]
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The only reason for this post was to reflect the other one about the benefits of Brexit and curiosity to see how more of the same would have led to an obviously necessary reset of economics and the society it creates.
I think you are the first to address it by saying that they eventually learn from their mistakes so fair enough.....I'm not so sure they are prepared to learn about the Euro. I still believe that the EU is a cumbersome behemoth and too entrenched in its structures for meaningful and necessary reforms. | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 08:20 - Jan 29 with 1884 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 01:10 - Jan 29 by XYZ |
Brexit is levelling down. Rapidly.
But you're OK aren't you? The UK (or what's left of it) is never going to sign up for your revolution.
Meanwhile you seem content with rising levels of pain and hunger amongst the less fortunate. |
You seem to think you know all about me!
Has it skipped your attention that the drip drip effects of this increasing divide between the haves and have nots has been doing quite nicely thanks across Europe and beyond regardless of EU membership? Perhaps you prefer a long drawn out quiet death, personally anything that hastens awareness that the Emperors have no clothes is good by me. | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 08:40 - Jan 29 with 1830 views | WeWereZombies |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 08:12 - Jan 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The only reason for this post was to reflect the other one about the benefits of Brexit and curiosity to see how more of the same would have led to an obviously necessary reset of economics and the society it creates.
I think you are the first to address it by saying that they eventually learn from their mistakes so fair enough.....I'm not so sure they are prepared to learn about the Euro. I still believe that the EU is a cumbersome behemoth and too entrenched in its structures for meaningful and necessary reforms. |
The European Union is more of a Leviathan than a cumbersome behemoth, this is also true of the United Kingdom. Although many see the word Leviathan and see a book in the Bible, for some of us it is a work by Thomas Hobbes and was written during as well as in the aftermath of the English Civil War:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Leviathan-by-Hobbes
The Euro is necessary to counter the current power of the US dollar and the coming power of the rouble, it gives the member states who adopt it a certain elan in commercial dealings too.
A further benefit of European Union membership for some nations, including Switzerland and Norway and Lichtenstein and Iceland outside of the Union, is the Schengen Area which serves to break down some of the artificial barriers that come with nationhood. This increased ease of movement also helps social mobility for those who want to exercise their talents outside of narrow confines and those who wish to live in climates more conducive to their homeostatis...blowing a fecking gale, literally, here at the moment and that is increasing my desire to get a going to Spain or somewhere Mediterranean but this is a more puzzling decision now.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/ | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 09:01 - Jan 29 with 1776 views | tractordownsouth |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 23:07 - Jan 28 by XYZ |
1. Cornwall, one of the UK's many deprived regions, wouldn't lose massive regional grant.
Want some more?
next ... |
Yep. Our £60m a year has been replaced by £3m from the levelling up fund. Given that young people already had no chance of owning a home in Cornwall because the government and the Tory council are doing nothing to stop the explosion of second homes, it’s another unnecessary hit. |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 09:02 - Jan 29 with 1772 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 08:40 - Jan 29 by WeWereZombies |
The European Union is more of a Leviathan than a cumbersome behemoth, this is also true of the United Kingdom. Although many see the word Leviathan and see a book in the Bible, for some of us it is a work by Thomas Hobbes and was written during as well as in the aftermath of the English Civil War:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Leviathan-by-Hobbes
The Euro is necessary to counter the current power of the US dollar and the coming power of the rouble, it gives the member states who adopt it a certain elan in commercial dealings too.
A further benefit of European Union membership for some nations, including Switzerland and Norway and Lichtenstein and Iceland outside of the Union, is the Schengen Area which serves to break down some of the artificial barriers that come with nationhood. This increased ease of movement also helps social mobility for those who want to exercise their talents outside of narrow confines and those who wish to live in climates more conducive to their homeostatis...blowing a fecking gale, literally, here at the moment and that is increasing my desire to get a going to Spain or somewhere Mediterranean but this is a more puzzling decision now.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/ |
That Hobbes fella seems familiar with all sorts of monsters...
"Hobbes’s political views exerted a discernible influence on his work in other fields, including historiography and legal theory. His political philosophy is chiefly concerned with the way in which government must be organized in order to avoid civil war. It therefore encompasses a view of the typical causes of civil war, all of which are represented in Behemoth; or, The Long Parliament (1679), his history of the English Civil Wars."
The Euro I think works well for some at the core (France/Germany) less so for those at the periphery (Greece)
Not being a nationalist it is hard to argue that we shouldn't be a little more Norwegian/Swiss/Icelandic/Lichtenstinian(?). If only it was all a bit more human scale and about freedom for individuals rather than capital. | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 09:04 - Jan 29 with 1770 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 02:05 - Jan 29 by HARRY10 |
A brexiter, bare facing lying....again
The only thing from Remainers was a warning of the dire effects of the UK turning inward, and trying to set the clock back 70 odds years.
Given the UK is in the process of turning it's back on being a global trader, there is not any knowledge of what the UK would be.
Still, like Johnson, brexiteers seen uncapable o-f not lying. |
Qué? | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:06 - Jan 29 with 1681 views | Dubtractor |
I saw a comment the other day that made me think of you.
It compared left leaning voters saying the bbc needed to be scrapped, with the same types who voted for brexit. In both cases the hope was that a better/fairer solution would be found, but it was misguided as in both cases the void will be quickly filled by a more extreme version of capitalism/right leaning content.
They said it much better than me, but the general gist is that you are/were naïve to think that the solution you hoped for would ever come to pass, even if your justification for wanting change may have been sound. |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:11 - Jan 29 with 1648 views | MattinLondon |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:06 - Jan 29 by Dubtractor |
I saw a comment the other day that made me think of you.
It compared left leaning voters saying the bbc needed to be scrapped, with the same types who voted for brexit. In both cases the hope was that a better/fairer solution would be found, but it was misguided as in both cases the void will be quickly filled by a more extreme version of capitalism/right leaning content.
They said it much better than me, but the general gist is that you are/were naïve to think that the solution you hoped for would ever come to pass, even if your justification for wanting change may have been sound. |
My brother-in-law is very left-wing and extremely clever.
When lockdown first happened he was adamant that this would lead to society resetting itself to become fairer snd more equal. It wasn’t just him but a lot of others who were equally as political and clever.
At the time it just sounded extremely naïve that society would do that.
Not Brexit related as such but sort of in keeping with what you said. |  | | |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:18 - Jan 29 with 1633 views | MalcolmBlue |
Well more of the same would mean the UK economy would be above pre-pandemic figures (like in all other countries of the G7). Currently the UK is lagging behind, which equates to less money for public services and more borrowing.
Wait to see the impact it’ll have on interest rates, the squeeze you’ll feel when your cost of living rises and your wage doesn’t increase in real terms. This government doesn’t care about you and nor will they ever. If you want a society reset the wrong people are in charge to oversee that. |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:24 - Jan 29 with 1608 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:11 - Jan 29 by MattinLondon |
My brother-in-law is very left-wing and extremely clever.
When lockdown first happened he was adamant that this would lead to society resetting itself to become fairer snd more equal. It wasn’t just him but a lot of others who were equally as political and clever.
At the time it just sounded extremely naïve that society would do that.
Not Brexit related as such but sort of in keeping with what you said. |
There was quite a lot of optimism around that in 2020 wasn’t there? Some may still come to pass of course. We’re moving to a hybrid working model at work in the long term. We’re still WFH, but it looks like we’ll only need to go back for 2 days a week. We’re also now allowed to effectively go offline and ignore emails for focus days on a Friday. That’s far more than I’d have imagined a couple of years ago. It may even bring us closer to a 4 day week.
I suppose that’s small beer in terms of what we need as a society, but it’s a step in the right direction personally. |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:25 - Jan 29 with 1595 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:06 - Jan 29 by Dubtractor |
I saw a comment the other day that made me think of you.
It compared left leaning voters saying the bbc needed to be scrapped, with the same types who voted for brexit. In both cases the hope was that a better/fairer solution would be found, but it was misguided as in both cases the void will be quickly filled by a more extreme version of capitalism/right leaning content.
They said it much better than me, but the general gist is that you are/were naïve to think that the solution you hoped for would ever come to pass, even if your justification for wanting change may have been sound. |
While I get where you are coming from, I wasn't that naive to believe my preferred solution would come to pass. However, looking back, if anything it was closer to being a reality than I might have hoped in that a Corbinite Lexit could have delivered. One day I might forgive the status quo Remain wing of the Labour Party for undermining this possibility!!
Having been given a referendum vote my focus was whether or not the EU in its current incarnation was something I supported and wished to perpetuate or not rather than trying to guess at what comes next. If Varoufakis and Co prove that the Behemoth can be reformed then I will reconsider my decision at that point. | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:29 - Jan 29 with 1567 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:11 - Jan 29 by MattinLondon |
My brother-in-law is very left-wing and extremely clever.
When lockdown first happened he was adamant that this would lead to society resetting itself to become fairer snd more equal. It wasn’t just him but a lot of others who were equally as political and clever.
At the time it just sounded extremely naïve that society would do that.
Not Brexit related as such but sort of in keeping with what you said. |
Do you know why he thought this would be the case? Was it because he thought it would make us more aware of our interdependence on each other and the need for real and connected community?
Did he vote Lexit too btw? | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:34 - Jan 29 with 1533 views | MalcolmBlue |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:25 - Jan 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
While I get where you are coming from, I wasn't that naive to believe my preferred solution would come to pass. However, looking back, if anything it was closer to being a reality than I might have hoped in that a Corbinite Lexit could have delivered. One day I might forgive the status quo Remain wing of the Labour Party for undermining this possibility!!
Having been given a referendum vote my focus was whether or not the EU in its current incarnation was something I supported and wished to perpetuate or not rather than trying to guess at what comes next. If Varoufakis and Co prove that the Behemoth can be reformed then I will reconsider my decision at that point. |
Well blaming the Labour Party for what happened with Corbyn is misguided in my opinion. Labour needs to be united to stand a credible chance of overthrowing the tories. Your blame should be solely squared at the right wing media for not holding the Tories to account and scrutinising Boris the same way they did with Corbyn.
Also regarding the EU and reforms, Germany electing the SPD is a good start. | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:38 - Jan 29 with 1521 views | MattinLondon |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:29 - Jan 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Do you know why he thought this would be the case? Was it because he thought it would make us more aware of our interdependence on each other and the need for real and connected community?
Did he vote Lexit too btw? |
He voted to remain - albeit with a heavy heart I think. But he did think that Brexit, as an idea was ridiculous.
I think that despite being very clever he is quite idealistic. I can’t really elaborate further than this I’m afraid. | | | |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 11:08 - Jan 29 with 1483 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 10:34 - Jan 29 by MalcolmBlue |
Well blaming the Labour Party for what happened with Corbyn is misguided in my opinion. Labour needs to be united to stand a credible chance of overthrowing the tories. Your blame should be solely squared at the right wing media for not holding the Tories to account and scrutinising Boris the same way they did with Corbyn.
Also regarding the EU and reforms, Germany electing the SPD is a good start. |
Oh don't worry, I blame both. | |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 11:39 - Jan 29 with 1408 views | BlueBadger |
Voting 'leave' was and remains the politics equivalent of arguing that Paul Lambert should have had more time. |  |
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| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 13:29 - Jan 29 with 1295 views | Durovigutum |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 09:02 - Jan 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That Hobbes fella seems familiar with all sorts of monsters...
"Hobbes’s political views exerted a discernible influence on his work in other fields, including historiography and legal theory. His political philosophy is chiefly concerned with the way in which government must be organized in order to avoid civil war. It therefore encompasses a view of the typical causes of civil war, all of which are represented in Behemoth; or, The Long Parliament (1679), his history of the English Civil Wars."
The Euro I think works well for some at the core (France/Germany) less so for those at the periphery (Greece)
Not being a nationalist it is hard to argue that we shouldn't be a little more Norwegian/Swiss/Icelandic/Lichtenstinian(?). If only it was all a bit more human scale and about freedom for individuals rather than capital. |
We were all promised "Norway ++". As a remainer I could work with that, outside of the political but inside the trading and free movement. Perhaps if the government had stopped lyrics and applied the "three months and you're out" rule, as per Germany, that would have closed the anti-foreigner element too.
We've ended up as "project fear". Average household worse off by £5,000 inside five years was it? Power cost increases, food cost increases, tax rises - looks pretty accurate now. |  | | |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 13:52 - Jan 29 with 1247 views | XYZ |
| I wish I had voted Remain now. on 13:29 - Jan 29 by Durovigutum |
We were all promised "Norway ++". As a remainer I could work with that, outside of the political but inside the trading and free movement. Perhaps if the government had stopped lyrics and applied the "three months and you're out" rule, as per Germany, that would have closed the anti-foreigner element too.
We've ended up as "project fear". Average household worse off by £5,000 inside five years was it? Power cost increases, food cost increases, tax rises - looks pretty accurate now. |
Indeed. Putting aside the legality, the influence of foreign malign actors, etc. etc. in the referendum ...
No-one could argue that the 52% all agreed on one "form" of brexit. Very few (of the 100%) had any concept of the choices and the personal and economic consequences of those choices.
The argument, and eventually the implementation, was manipulated into the "patriotic" brexit we got.
Again, ignoring the fact that those who got their "oven-ready deal" took months to denounce their own deal and threaten to breach international law by breaking it.
You end up with a situation that a small minority (including the malign foreign actors, Bannon, etc) were after in June 2016. And they insist that's democracy.
Blair and Brown must take some of the blame here. Not implementing the 3 month rule to remain resident under the EU's free movement rule allowed the xenophobic players (Farage, etc) to plant their seeds in the electorate's minds and propagate them.
So here we are with something that had very little support outside the Tufton St grifters whose secret foreign financing is kept a tight secret. The beneficiaries are money launderers, hedge fund capitalists, those looking to destabilise western Europe, etc.
The British people are going to pay a big price and it won't be long before the average "non-political" types start to notice and then to start asking questions as to how it happened. | | | |
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