| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:37 - Feb 3 with 1880 views | chicoazul |
At least all those cleaners care workers NHS staff binmen and librarians can take some comfort from their energy price rises being offset by the gains to their Vanguard funds. |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:38 - Feb 3 with 1863 views | giant_stow |
I've just read in the Telegraph that high energy prices are all Ed Millibands fault dating back to when he was a minister in 2008. Oh and also they blame the energy cap for putting people off from shopping around for the best deal.
Madhouse stuff. |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:40 - Feb 3 with 1854 views | J2BLUE |
Interestingly my shares in Shell were 'liquidated for £0.00 per share' and reissued after Shell Plc was acquired by Shell PLC. Is that due to some new tax dodge or just something legal? |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:42 - Feb 3 with 1834 views | LeoMuff |
Surely windfall tax and rebate to consumers ? Not sure how can justify record profits and 60% bill increases ? |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:44 - Feb 3 with 1813 views | Cotty |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:40 - Feb 3 by J2BLUE |
Interestingly my shares in Shell were 'liquidated for £0.00 per share' and reissued after Shell Plc was acquired by Shell PLC. Is that due to some new tax dodge or just something legal? |
Divest now to save the planet! |  | | |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:46 - Feb 3 with 1804 views | giant_stow |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:40 - Feb 3 by J2BLUE |
Interestingly my shares in Shell were 'liquidated for £0.00 per share' and reissued after Shell Plc was acquired by Shell PLC. Is that due to some new tax dodge or just something legal? |
I think i read that Shell is either now (or about to become) purely UK-based, rather than in Holland. Think it was related to tax - from memory, sometime to do with Dutch environmental levvies.
Could have that total arse about tit though. | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:53 - Feb 3 with 1744 views | lowhouseblue |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:44 - Feb 3 by Cotty |
Divest now to save the planet! |
selling shares to someone else saves the planet? cool. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:53 - Feb 3 with 1740 views | lowhouseblue |
windfall tax. could there be a better example of a windfall? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:57 - Feb 3 with 1709 views | J2BLUE |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:44 - Feb 3 by Cotty |
Divest now to save the planet! |
I do try and invest in greener businesses. | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:58 - Feb 3 with 1685 views | usm |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:46 - Feb 3 by giant_stow |
I think i read that Shell is either now (or about to become) purely UK-based, rather than in Holland. Think it was related to tax - from memory, sometime to do with Dutch environmental levvies.
Could have that total arse about tit though. |
Known as RoyalDutchShell arent/werent they? |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:59 - Feb 3 with 1687 views | Cotty |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:53 - Feb 3 by lowhouseblue |
selling shares to someone else saves the planet? cool. |
If a large number of people do all at the same time, yes it would help. Besides this, if you believe in climate change (i.e. science), then it is immoral to profit from it. | | | |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:01 - Feb 3 with 1667 views | nodge_blue |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:58 - Feb 3 by usm |
Known as RoyalDutchShell arent/werent they? |
They are just shell now and have just become a Uk based company. Not sure of why they left the Dutch market. |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:02 - Feb 3 with 1663 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:53 - Feb 3 by lowhouseblue |
selling shares to someone else saves the planet? cool. |
No but you do get to sleep easier! |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:03 - Feb 3 with 1649 views | nodge_blue |
Shame we just wasted 8 billion on PPE. That would have kept bills down for a while.
There was mention in the times today about a potential windfall tax. I suspect this bubble may die back though.
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:04 - Feb 3 with 1647 views | giant_stow |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:58 - Feb 3 by usm |
Known as RoyalDutchShell arent/werent they? |
Think so, but I'm in over my head so better shut it!
Edit: https://fortune.com/2021/11/16/shell-dutch-relocation-government-court-dividends
was wrong about the environment bit
Edit: was wrong about that edit acording to Banker - I'm shutting up and off for lie down! [Post edited 3 Feb 2022 11:08]
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:04 - Feb 3 with 1645 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:46 - Feb 3 by giant_stow |
I think i read that Shell is either now (or about to become) purely UK-based, rather than in Holland. Think it was related to tax - from memory, sometime to do with Dutch environmental levvies.
Could have that total arse about tit though. |
It's because they were going to be forced to tackle climate change...
https://www.clearygottlieb.com/news-and-insights/publication-listing/dutch-court
In a groundbreaking judgment delivered on May 26, 2021, The Hague District Court ordered Royal Dutch Shell plc (“Shell”) to reduce its worldwide CO2Â emissions by 45% by 2030 (compared to 2019 levels). | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:05 - Feb 3 with 1636 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:37 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
At least all those cleaners care workers NHS staff binmen and librarians can take some comfort from their energy price rises being offset by the gains to their Vanguard funds. |
It's almost like it's a class war. | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 11:09 - Feb 3 with 1607 views | usm |
Plenty of corporation tax, dividend tax and income tax revenue there, but yeah there should be some sort of windfall tax for these situations. | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 12:17 - Feb 3 with 1405 views | lowhouseblue |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 10:59 - Feb 3 by Cotty |
If a large number of people do all at the same time, yes it would help. Besides this, if you believe in climate change (i.e. science), then it is immoral to profit from it. |
no it wouldn't. morality is a separate point. but if a large number of people sell shares, the price falls and the shares become exceptionally attractive to other investors. nothing else at all changes.
policy needs to make the discovery and extraction of fossil fuels less profitable - that way companies that only do that become less attractive to investors and those companies can't raise new funds. selling shares as a protest (separate from your morality point) is back to front and ineffective. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:19 - Feb 3 with 1253 views | giant_stow |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 12:17 - Feb 3 by lowhouseblue |
no it wouldn't. morality is a separate point. but if a large number of people sell shares, the price falls and the shares become exceptionally attractive to other investors. nothing else at all changes.
policy needs to make the discovery and extraction of fossil fuels less profitable - that way companies that only do that become less attractive to investors and those companies can't raise new funds. selling shares as a protest (separate from your morality point) is back to front and ineffective. |
You know I'm a big fan of yours, but this one doesn't add up to my mind at least. If a stock become unpopular enough for whatever reason, its price will fall. And if a share's price falls, can't that make debt more difficult to get hold of, as the company is worth less, so has less to borrow against? If so, wouldn.t that make funding new extractions more difficult and costly / less likely to happen?
Could be wrong / missing something. | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:25 - Feb 3 with 1230 views | SaleAway |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:19 - Feb 3 by giant_stow |
You know I'm a big fan of yours, but this one doesn't add up to my mind at least. If a stock become unpopular enough for whatever reason, its price will fall. And if a share's price falls, can't that make debt more difficult to get hold of, as the company is worth less, so has less to borrow against? If so, wouldn.t that make funding new extractions more difficult and costly / less likely to happen?
Could be wrong / missing something. |
the point is if you sell stock for a moral reason, the economics of owning that stock haven't changed.... so if you have a business that pays a good dividend ( like Shell), and a load of people offload shares... the price drops, but the economic outlook for the business hasn't changed, so its likely that other investors will take that option, as their ROI will be higher than with other stocks.
Its all a bit hypothetical... if you can get enough people to offload shares and others to not buy them, then yes, the value might drop. But that's a bit like trying to persuade everyone in the world to use less fossil fuels... which would also drive the price down, by dropping demand - its a nice idea, but isn't going to happen. |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:31 - Feb 3 with 1212 views | giant_stow |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:25 - Feb 3 by SaleAway |
the point is if you sell stock for a moral reason, the economics of owning that stock haven't changed.... so if you have a business that pays a good dividend ( like Shell), and a load of people offload shares... the price drops, but the economic outlook for the business hasn't changed, so its likely that other investors will take that option, as their ROI will be higher than with other stocks.
Its all a bit hypothetical... if you can get enough people to offload shares and others to not buy them, then yes, the value might drop. But that's a bit like trying to persuade everyone in the world to use less fossil fuels... which would also drive the price down, by dropping demand - its a nice idea, but isn't going to happen. |
Ah I'm with you both. So the price might only drop to such a point as other non-morally-motivated buyers come in and start to support it? | |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:32 - Feb 3 with 1211 views | Swansea_Blue |
Partly, and also because our tax system allows them to plough more profit back into dividends for their shareholders.
Great optics isn't it? Annual income quadrupled to $19bn and last quarter profits of $6.4bn, and their priority is in investor dividends rather than reinvesting back into the business on things like infrastructure for resilience or greener technologies.
As you say though, a lot of us are directly benefiting from this through our own pensions, etc., and I suppose many people will not see how grotesque it is for the same reason (I could well be a hypocrite for all I know, as I'm not sure where my employer pension is invested). |  |
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| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:36 - Feb 3 with 1193 views | J2BLUE |
| Hooray for your ISAs and pension funds.... on 13:31 - Feb 3 by giant_stow |
Ah I'm with you both. So the price might only drop to such a point as other non-morally-motivated buyers come in and start to support it? |
Precisely.
Before buying Shell and BP I did research how they were going to switch to greener energy. | |
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